Is Real Democracy Dead?

[edwinchester]

There is an election for the head of the local Tessabaan at the end of next week.

Now I am aware that vote buying goes on in Thailand but in my 6 years of living here I have never seen anything as blatant and frankly depressing as I witnessed today.

Why? Because today was the day several candidates dished out the money to buy a vote.

People were literally queing up to get theirs. Wifey came home with a smile on her face too.

Who gave you the money I asked?

Number 2.

What party are they?

I don't know?

What will they do for the local area and our village?

Didn't ask.

How much did you get?

2700 bht.

I was gobsmacked. Some families were being handed 10k to ensure they all voted the same way.

The candidates must be paying out millions as the constituency area is quite large.

I doubt if I'll be commenting on corruption in Thai politics again because if this is the norm then the electorate have nobody but themselves for the corrupt cesspool they're in.

[Vinny1967]

Well if the recipients don't even know which party is giving out the money I don't see the point in doing it.

[jamescollister]

Everyone takes the money, but they vote for who they choose. Jim

[edwinchester]

Well if the recipients don't even know which party is giving out the money I don't see the point in doing it.

My wife told me she knows the number of the candidate. That is all you need to know.

[edwinchester]

Everyone takes the money, but they vote for who they choose. Jim

I wondered that too but earlier was having a chat in the local shop where some of the money was being handed out and the friends of my wife that I asked all said they would 'honour the cash'.

[jamescollister]

Everyone takes the money, but they vote for who they choose. Jim

I wondered that too but earlier was having a chat in the local shop where some of the money was being handed out and the friends of my wife that I asked all said they would 'honour the cash'.

Family here takes the money from all the candidates, one guy even bought me 3 bottles of beer. It's just the way, but if you don't pay you will not get their vote. Jim

[thaimite]

Democracy =

A lynch mob or 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what is for lunch.

Take the money and you will get the government you deserve

[LarryBird]

Wow. I have heard about this stuff, I didn't realize the $$ or ฿ was that big. I'd love to know the economics of it all.. Where the money comes from, along with the votes, what else are they buying? Why is the position worth so much?? I've lived here for 6.5 years, and I know I'll never really know what goes on here.

How long until someone makes a post about the same thing happens everywhere in the world?

[jamescollister]

Wow. I have heard about this stuff, I didn't realize the $$ or ฿ was that big. I'd love to know the economics of it all.. Where the money comes from, along with the votes, what else are they buying? Why is the position worth so much?? I've lived here for 6.5 years, and I know I'll never really know what goes on here.

How long until someone makes a post about the same thing happens everywhere in the world?

Governments buy votes all over the world, west or east. Vote for us and we will give you this or that. Thailand they just pay up front, win or lose. Once you win, lots of opportunities to redeem the money spent getting into office.

Some don't pay much and not a lot to be made on the side. FIL is one, but it is a life time position. Puts his uniform on every 2 weeks, goes to a meeting, but gets paid every month until 60 or 65 years old. Jim

[LarryBird]

TAO RAI!!

[theblether]

Wow. I have heard about this stuff, I didn't realize the $$ or ฿ was that big. I'd love to know the economics of it all.. Where the money comes from, along with the votes, what else are they buying? Why is the position worth so much?? I've lived here for 6.5 years, and I know I'll never really know what goes on here.

How long until someone makes a post about the same thing happens everywhere in the world?

Governments buy votes all over the world, west or east. Vote for us and we will give you this or that. Thailand they just pay up front, win or lose. Once you win, lots of opportunities to redeem the money spent getting into office.

Some don't pay much and not a lot to be made on the side. FIL is one, but it is a life time position. Puts his uniform on every 2 weeks, goes to a meeting, but gets paid every month until 60 or 65 years old. Jim

Yup......in the West politicians write checks that the unborn need to pay.

[whybother]

Wow. I have heard about this stuff, I didn't realize the $$ or ฿ was that big. I'd love to know the economics of it all.. Where the money comes from, along with the votes, what else are they buying? Why is the position worth so much?? I've lived here for 6.5 years, and I know I'll never really know what goes on here.

How long until someone makes a post about the same thing happens everywhere in the world?

Governments buy votes all over the world, west or east. Vote for us and we will give you this or that. Thailand they just pay up front, win or lose. Once you win, lots of opportunities to redeem the money spent getting into office.

Some don't pay much and not a lot to be made on the side. FIL is one, but it is a life time position. Puts his uniform on every 2 weeks, goes to a meeting, but gets paid every month until 60 or 65 years old. Jim

Saying "Vote for us and we'll give you ..." is a lot different than "Here is .... Now vote for us."

[jamescollister]

Wow. I have heard about this stuff, I didn't realize the $$ or ฿ was that big. I'd love to know the economics of it all.. Where the money comes from, along with the votes, what else are they buying? Why is the position worth so much?? I've lived here for 6.5 years, and I know I'll never really know what goes on here.

How long until someone makes a post about the same thing happens everywhere in the world?

Governments buy votes all over the world, west or east. Vote for us and we will give you this or that. Thailand they just pay up front, win or lose. Once you win, lots of opportunities to redeem the money spent getting into office.

Some don't pay much and not a lot to be made on the side. FIL is one, but it is a life time position. Puts his uniform on every 2 weeks, goes to a meeting, but gets paid every month until 60 or 65 years old. Jim

Saying "Vote for us and we'll give you ..." is a lot different than "Here is .... Now vote for us."

Trouble is in the west, vote for us and we will give you, translates into sorry but things have changed and we need more taxes. Jim

[LarryBird]

Wow. I have heard about this stuff, I didn't realize the $$ or ฿ was that big. I'd love to know the economics of it all.. Where the money comes from, along with the votes, what else are they buying? Why is the position worth so much?? I've lived here for 6.5 years, and I know I'll never really know what goes on here.

How long until someone makes a post about the same thing happens everywhere in the world?

Governments buy votes all over the world, west or east. Vote for us and we will give you this or that. Thailand they just pay up front, win or lose. Once you win, lots of opportunities to redeem the money spent getting into office.

Some don't pay much and not a lot to be made on the side. FIL is one, but it is a life time position. Puts his uniform on every 2 weeks, goes to a meeting, but gets paid every month until 60 or 65 years old. Jim

Saying "Vote for us and we'll give you ..." is a lot different than "Here is .... Now vote for us."

Trouble is in the west, vote for us and we will give you, translates into sorry but things have changed and we need more taxes. Jim

Your posts are useless. Being that most of the posters on here are from 'the west', we know what it's like over there. OP shared a good story with us about the way things are done near his home, and I'd imagine all over Thailand. Your insightful cynicism of the evil west is noted, please move along.

[thaimite]

Saying "Vote for us and we'll give you ..." is a lot different than "Here is .... Now vote for us."

Yes it is.

In the west we vote on the strength of empty promises that are rarely kept.

The Thai's are sensible enough to get the money up front.

I guess that makes them the clever ones

[jamescollister]

]Sorry larryBird must have ruffled your feathers. Jim

[edwinchester]

Wow. I have heard about this stuff, I didn't realize the $$ or ฿ was that big. I'd love to know the economics of it all.. Where the money comes from, along with the votes, what else are they buying? Why is the position worth so much?? I've lived here for 6.5 years, and I know I'll never really know what goes on here.

How long until someone makes a post about the same thing happens everywhere in the world?

Hi. As to where the money comes from to buy the votes I only know for sure about one of the candidates. Their 'representative' handing out the money said that they had taken out a substantial bank loan.

[StreetCowboy]

Saying "Vote for us and we'll give you ..." is a lot different than "Here is .... Now vote for us."

Yes it is.

In the west we vote on the strength of empty promises that are rarely kept.

The Thai's are sensible enough to get the money up front.

I guess that makes them the clever ones

In the West, the candidates get elected on the premise that government will work for the people. In Thailand, they stand for election in the belief that government will work for the candidate. I don't think I would sell my government for a few thousand baht, no matter how dissatisfied I was with them

SC

[MrRealDeal]

I don't think the offering of money translates into votes as often as the people offering the money think ...... My wife got paid by 3 different canidates, and it had no bearing on who she voted for and obviously could not vote for all 3

[Payboy]

The end result's only marginally different, whoever wins. So, why not just go with your vote for the highest bidder.

[MrRealDeal]

The end result's only marginally different, whoever wins. So, why not just go with your vote for the highest bidder.

If I had to base my vote on the money ..... I would vote for the first one to give it since the next 2 were to stuipd to ask if we already got some from the other guy ! I would aslo not vote for the guy who gave the most because if he lost he might come back next year and give me more again !

[StreetCowboy]

I don't think the offering of money translates into votes as often as the people offering the money think ...... My wife got paid by 3 different canidates, and it had no bearing on who she voted for and obviously could not vote for all 3

It's a pretty good indication of how much they expect to be able to plunder out of the system, though

[jamescollister]

I don't think the offering of money translates into votes as often as the people offering the money think ...... My wife got paid by 3 different canidates, and it had no bearing on who she voted for and obviously could not vote for all 3

It's a pretty good indication of how much they expect to be able to plunder out of the system, though

It is starting to hit home to some of the local Government leaders, that the days of half for me and half for the road repairs have gone or are going.

We are well out of the way out here, but all Government buildings are now on the net, transactions are on computer not a pieces of paper.

BIL is something like a county clerk, his newly elected boss shit himself when some boys from BKK came up to audit some road works. Seems the costs did not tally with the alleged work, hard to hide things on a computer, unless you are really smart.

Even the non elected vice Governor got done last year, not fired or jailed, transferred to Yala. Jim

[StreetCowboy]

...

...

It is starting to hit home to some of the local Government leaders, that the days of half for me and half for the road repairs have gone or are going.

We are well out of the way out here, but all Government buildings are now on the net, transactions are on computer not a pieces of paper.

BIL is something like a county clerk, his newly elected boss shit himself when some boys from BKK came up to audit some road works. Seems the costs did not tally with the alleged work, hard to hide things on a computer, unless you are really smart.

Even the non elected vice Governor got done last year, not fired or jailed, transferred to Yala. Jim

'...transferred to Yala'. He could appeal to the UNCHR on that, for cruel and unusual punishment.

I don't think that there's many in Thailand actually in favour of corruption, but when one is trying to make one's way in society, one uses whatever options are available.

Personally, I'd like to not work unpaid overtime, but the alternative of not getting the work done is less attractive. Similarly with corruption. But we all know it's wrong.

SC

[Morakot]

Everyone takes the money, but they vote for who they choose. Jim

The real problem is that all this upfront "investment" leads to further corruption: I.e. the winning politician trying to reclaim his/ her expenses rather than serving the people.

[Mosha]

In the next village, the Kamnam was being challenged for the job. Her opponent who's uncle had previously held the post about 8 years ago, was paying 1000 Baht. The Kamnam just told the locals, if you think I've done a bad job, vote for him. She won. Having said that when she 1st stood she did visit her opponents close friends and gave them 500 Baht to vote for her. It's only local elections here that are like this. The government ones are quite clean from what my wife tells me.

[jamescollister]

In the next village, the Kamnam was being challenged for the job. Her opponent who's uncle had previously held the post about 8 years ago, was paying 1000 Baht. The Kamnam just told the locals, if you think I've done a bad job, vote for him. She won. Having said that when she 1st stood she did visit her opponents close friends and gave them 500 Baht to vote for her. It's only local elections here that are like this. The government ones are quite clean from what my wife tells me.

True , big Government elections are a different ball game, but all politicians, east or west are there for their own gain. If they were there for the good of the people and country they would stop giving themselves pay rises and work conditions that an ordinary citizen could only dream of. Jim

[StreetCowboy]

In the next village, the Kamnam was being challenged for the job. Her opponent who's uncle had previously held the post about 8 years ago, was paying 1000 Baht. The Kamnam just told the locals, if you think I've done a bad job, vote for him. She won. Having said that when she 1st stood she did visit her opponents close friends and gave them 500 Baht to vote for her. It's only local elections here that are like this. The government ones are quite clean from what my wife tells me.

True , big Government elections are a different ball game, but all politicians, east or west are there for their own gain. If they were there for the good of the people and country they would stop giving themselves pay rises and work conditions that an ordinary citizen could only dream of. Jim

I don't think that there's many politicians go into it for the salary, terms and conditions, it's just that they have an over-inflated opinion of their own value and importance.

SC

[thaibeachlovers]

You don't seem to realise that ALL so called democratic elections, in ALL so called democratic countries are about bribing the votors.

BTW, there is no such thing as a "real" democracy these days, if there ever was.

[thaibeachlovers]

Saying "Vote for us and we'll give you ..." is a lot different than "Here is .... Now vote for us."

Yes it is.

In the west we vote on the strength of empty promises that are rarely kept.

The Thai's are sensible enough to get the money up front.

I guess that makes them the clever ones

In the West, the candidates get elected on the premise that government will work for the people. In Thailand, they stand for election in the belief that government will work for the candidate. I don't think I would sell my government for a few thousand baht, no matter how dissatisfied I was with them

SC

<candidates get elected on the premise that government will work for the people>