The Legal Right To Remove Your Body From A Thai Mortuary

[up2you2]

I think a lot of the posters will make the following comment, "I couldn't give a dam what happens to me after I'm dead", so hopefully this will save you the trouble.

For those that might be concerned as to how one's Thai girl friend, might be able to carry out your funeral arrangements, this advise might be of help:

Thai relationships unless legally recognised in a Thai registry office, are not deemed to be family under international law.

For those that wish to expedite the funeral arrangements of their loved ones, the only valid and practical alternative is in contacting their respective Embassy.

The four main hospitals in Phuket will not release an expatriate body in the immediate aftermath of death, without an official "Letter of Release" from the relevant Embassy concerned.

[StreetCowboy]

I was hoping for something a bit more Doctor Frankenstein

[CrazyKid]

I was hoping for something a bit more Doctor Frankenstein

Ok so I can't help myself...

"The Legal Right To Remove Your Body From A Thai Mortuary"

If I get up off the slab I doubt to many would stop me from walking out.

I would not expect much help from the Thai Mortuary staff, I think they have issues with ghosts.

Thank You for the post, I will need to check my Power Of Attorney I have provided my best friend in USA.

[GarryP]

I was hoping for something a bit more Doctor Frankenstein

Ok so I can't help myself...

"The Legal Right To Remove Your Body From A Thai Mortuary"

If I get up off the slab I doubt to many would stop me from walking out.

I would not expect much help from the Thai Mortuary staff, I think they have issues with ghosts.

Thank You for the post, I will need to check my Power Of Attorney I have provided my best friend in USA.

dam_n you beat me to it. You would find it very difficult to move yourself after you are dead.

[harrry]

Actually this is an important issue. I have named my partner my executor in my will and given instructions for her to complete my funeral arrangements and would like to know if that is sufficient for the Australian Embassy to release my body to her. She will have enough to worry about without dealing with too much stupid red tape.

[Rob8891]

What about a wee note promising to come back and haunt them unless they comply? That might do the trick.....

[evadgib]

How about editing the title along the lines of "Formalities to remove...."

Re Official documentation; Copies will likely be needed for; Hospital (to remove from mortuary), Ampur (to issue death cert), Temple (authority to cremate) & Police if death occurred by other than natural causes.

HTH

[pgs]

Actually this is an important issue. I have named my partner my executor in my will and given instructions for her to complete my funeral arrangements and would like to know if that is sufficient for the Australian Embassy to release my body to her. She will have enough to worry about without dealing with too much stupid red tape.

You're no fun - red tape is what the Aussie gov't does best.

Face it, they're hopeless at anything practical/useful.

[harrry]

What about a wee note promising to come back and haunt them unless they comply? That might do the trick.....

That would only worry the Thai staff at the embassy..the others prefer their spirits neat.

[isanbirder]

This is one of the reasons why gays want civil partnerships recognised in Thailand (I can't see why man and woman can't have a 'civil partnership' as well).

But if you don't love your partner enough to marry her, I can't see why she should have any rights in this matter.

More important than what happens after you die is what happens if you're hospitalised, for example. Your partner then has no rights to look after you (though few hospitals would refuse, I imagine).

[harrry]

This is one of the reasons why gays want civil partnerships recognised in Thailand (I can't see why man and woman can't have a 'civil partnership' as well).

But if you don't love your partner enough to marry her, I can't see why she should have any rights in this matter.

More important than what happens after you die is what happens if you're hospitalised, for example. Your partner then has no rights to look after you (though few hospitals would refuse, I imagine).

Well Australia recognises gay partnerships.....and gives property rights to the partner after 2 years as it does for straight defacto partners. I think they should at least recognise here right to burn me. If she doesn't she will live in fear of my spirit and I do not want that.

[BEVUP]

Funeral arrangements for where

I might be presuming your talking of you remains to be flown back to country of origin

I personally cant understand this

As we all came (well maybe not all, to many people falling out of buildings ) to Thailand to live with (as th op mentioned ) with wife

I would want my remains to remain in Thai as my wife could come & put flowers on with my children

[isanbirder]

Funeral arrangements for where

I might be presuming your talking of you remains to be flown back to country of origin

I personally cant understand this

As we all came (well maybe not all, to many people falling out of buildings ) to Thailand to live with (as th op mentioned ) with wife

I would want my remains to remain in Thai as my wife could come & put flowers on with my children

OP said 'girl friend', not wife.

I've been through all this with my Chinese partner. When he died, I had to contact the British Consulate, and through them his family in Hong Kong, before I could get permission to deal with the body. This took a fortnight. Meanwhile the morgue telephoned me daily, complaining that the body wouldn't keep much longer. It was not at all a nice experience for someone who has just lost a beloved partner.

If you're properly married according to Thai law, no problem. If you live with a girl-friend (or a gay partner), she (or he) has no legal standing whatsoever.

[JeffreyMcCollum]

When my best friend died when we were traveling here 3 years back, everyone was more than helpful. I was just a friend nothing more, but the body was sent and handled just how I wanted and everything was very easy.

I would assume is one is really married to a Thai, the spouse would have little trouble and getting things done as I have seem before.

If it's just some bar girl, or other rented girl you call your girl friend, yes, they may want to contact family or your Embassy.

[simple1]

A few weeks back one of the expat clubs in Pattaya had a presentation from a priest that talked about the process for expats in Thailand when someone dies. He mentioned that the legal process is that an autopsy must be completed, if I remember correctly, in a police hospital in BKK. Only after the cause of death has been determined can a death certificate be provided. Apparently the local doctor is officially not permitted to provide a death certificate for a foreigner. Unsure if this applies if you die whilst in hospital.

I am sure that being this is Thailand the official process is not always adhered to if the deceased remains stay in Thailand. My wife tells me that the local doctor will provide a death certificate for the Amphur for her to access my will. I better be careful!

[harrry]

As this topic concerned me I contact the Australian Embassy and I am attaching their reply edit for privacy only.

Dear Harry

I am not a legal expert but I understand that your last Will would be the legal one. You should check with a legal advisor whether that be in Thailand or in Australia.

Amanda Spencer

Second Secretary and Consul

Australian Embassy

37 South Sathorn Road

Bangkok 10120

Ph. +66 (0)2 344 6544

Fax. +66 (0)2 344 6310

www.thailand.embassy.gov.au

We encourage all Australians travelling to Thailand to register their presence at http://www.orao.dfat.gov.au and read the latest travel advice for Thailand at http://www.smartraveller.gov.au

Sent: Friday, 25 January 2013 12:22 PM

To: Consular Bangkok

Subject: funeral arangements.

I am an Australian citizen currently retired in Chiangrai. I have made a will appointing my carer in Thailand as executor and giving her the responsibility for my funeral arangements.

I have since been told that in the event of my death this will not apply and my overseas estranged relatives will be given this task.

I would like to know if this is true and if so what I can do so I can ensure my wishes are carried out with as little stress as possible to my carer.

It seems as if they would act on my will and release the body to her.

[isanbirder]

As this topic concerned me I contact the Australian Embassy and I am attaching their reply edit for privacy only.

Dear Harry

I am not a legal expert but I understand that your last Will would be the legal one. You should check with a legal advisor whether that be in Thailand or in Australia.

Amanda Spencer

Second Secretary and Consul

Australian Embassy

37 South Sathorn Road

Bangkok 10120

Ph. +66 (0)2 344 6544

Fax. +66 (0)2 344 6310

www.thailand.embassy.gov.au

We encourage all Australians travelling to Thailand to register their presence at http://www.orao.dfat.gov.au and read the latest travel advice for Thailand at http://www.smartraveller.gov.au

Sent: Friday, 25 January 2013 12:22 PM

To: Consular Bangkok

Subject: funeral arangements.

I am an Australian citizen currently retired in Chiangrai. I have made a will appointing my carer in Thailand as executor and giving her the responsibility for my funeral arangements.

I have since been told that in the event of my death this will not apply and my overseas estranged relatives will be given this task.

I would like to know if this is true and if so what I can do so I can ensure my wishes are carried out with as little stress as possible to my carer.

It seems as if they would act on my will and release the body to her.

I'm not too sure on this, but I think your will is only valid in Thailand if it's in Thai, and fulfils Thai legal requirements. Basically this means getting it written by a Thai lawyer. Since you say 'carer', I presume she is not your wife.

[up2you2]

As this topic concerned me I contact the Australian Embassy and I am attaching their reply edit for privacy only.

Dear Harry

I am not a legal expert but I understand that your last Will would be the legal one. You should check with a legal advisor whether that be in Thailand or in Australia.

Amanda Spencer

Second Secretary and Consul

Australian Embassy

37 South Sathorn Road

Bangkok 10120

Ph. +66 (0)2 344 6544

Fax. +66 (0)2 344 6310

www.thailand.embassy.gov.au

We encourage all Australians travelling to Thailand to register their presence at http://www.orao.dfat.gov.au and read the latest travel advice for Thailand at http://www.smartraveller.gov.au

Sent: Friday, 25 January 2013 12:22 PM

To: Consular Bangkok

Subject: funeral arangements.

I am an Australian citizen currently retired in Chiangrai. I have made a will appointing my carer in Thailand as executor and giving her the responsibility for my funeral arangements.

I have since been told that in the event of my death this will not apply and my overseas estranged relatives will be given this task.

I would like to know if this is true and if so what I can do so I can ensure my wishes are carried out with as little stress as possible to my carer.

It seems as if they would act on my will and release the body to her.

Hi Harry,

May I suggest you contact your local hospitals.

In the event your body is taken to them, or you actually pass away whilst admitted, ask them to confirm in writing that they would be prepared to release your body to your career.

And would you be kind enough to let us know how you got on please.

Here in Phuket none of the hospitals would recognise any Wills, whether they are Thai Wills or Wills made outside of Thailand.

Following a Farang's Father's death here on the island, I thought I would do some investigative research as to what happens thereafter.

Woody (the son) had to get five sworn affidavits from his brothers and sisters, through attorneys in the US, for the US Embassy in Bangkok to issue an official "Letter of release".

So he could then carry out his Father's funeral arrangement.

It suddenly occurred to me on hearing his story, how would my own affairs pan out.

Many years ago I made a Will here in Phuket, in English and Thai making my girl friend my Executor of my Estate.

I thought I was home and dry, whereby my girl friend would have the legal right and power to collect my body from any hospital that it may be in.

So I have made enquires of the Phuket International Hospital, Bangkok Phuket Hospital, Mission Hospital and Vachira Hospital.

They all gave me the same answer, they would not release my body to her, as she is legally not my next of kin, due to the fact we are not married.

Regardless of what I might have had drawn up in a Will.

Needless to say this came as a surprise, so I made further enquires as to what implications this would entail.

The good news is that the hospitals will accept this authority from the Embassies by Fax or email, so that saves some time.

Seemingly most cases it only takes about three days to receive this.

The Mission Hospital will only keep your body for one day free, thereafter they will transfer it to Vachira Hospital.

Vachira Hospital charges 600 Baht per day to be kept in their morgue, 1000 Baht Phuket International, 1500 Bangkok Phuket (in spite of me requesting that I didn't need internet).

Embalming comes in at 150 Baht Vachira, 1500 Baht Phuket International ( plus 400 Baht Mortuary Set), 3000 Baht Bangkok Phuket.

In the event the patient is dead on arrival, Vachira charges 2000 Baht for the additional inspection and paper work.

[isanbirder]

As this topic concerned me I contact the Australian Embassy and I am attaching their reply edit for privacy only.

Dear Harry

I am not a legal expert but I understand that your last Will would be the legal one. You should check with a legal advisor whether that be in Thailand or in Australia.

Amanda Spencer

Second Secretary and Consul

Australian Embassy

37 South Sathorn Road

Bangkok 10120

Ph. +66 (0)2 344 6544

Fax. +66 (0)2 344 6310

www.thailand.embassy.gov.au

We encourage all Australians travelling to Thailand to register their presence at http://www.orao.dfat.gov.au and read the latest travel advice for Thailand at http://www.smartraveller.gov.au

Sent: Friday, 25 January 2013 12:22 PM

To: Consular Bangkok

Subject: funeral arangements.

I am an Australian citizen currently retired in Chiangrai. I have made a will appointing my carer in Thailand as executor and giving her the responsibility for my funeral arangements.

I have since been told that in the event of my death this will not apply and my overseas estranged relatives will be given this task.

I would like to know if this is true and if so what I can do so I can ensure my wishes are carried out with as little stress as possible to my carer.

It seems as if they would act on my will and release the body to her.

Hi Harry,

May I suggest you contact your local hospitals.

In the event your body is taken to them, or you actually pass away whilst admitted, ask them to confirm in writing that they would be prepared to release your body to your career.

And would you be kind enough to let us know how you got on please.

Here in Phuket none of the hospitals would recognise any Wills, whether they are Thai Wills or Wills made outside of Thailand.

Following a Farang's Father's death here on the island, I thought I would do some investigative research as to what happens thereafter.

Woody (the son) had to get five sworn affidavits from his brothers and sisters, through attorneys in the US, for the US Embassy in Bangkok to issue an official "Letter of release".

So he could then carry out his Father's funeral arrangement.

It suddenly occurred to me on hearing his story, how would my own affairs pan out.

Many years ago I made a Will here in Phuket, in English and Thai making my girl friend my Executor of my Estate.

I thought I was home and dry, whereby my girl friend would have the legal right and power to collect my body from any hospital that it may be in.

So I have made enquires of the Phuket International Hospital, Bangkok Phuket Hospital, Mission Hospital and Vachira Hospital.

They all gave me the same answer, they would not release my body to her, as she is legally not my next of kin, due to the fact we are not married.

Regardless of what I might have had drawn up in a Will.

Needless to say this came as a surprise, so I made further enquires as to what implications this would entail.

The good news is that the hospitals will accept this authority from the Embassies by Fax or email, so that saves some time.

Seemingly most cases it only takes about three days to receive this.

The Mission Hospital will only keep your body for one day free, thereafter they will transfer it to Vachira Hospital.

Vachira Hospital charges 600 Baht per day to be kept in their morgue, 1000 Baht Phuket International, 1500 Bangkok Phuket (in spite of me requesting that I didn't need internet).

Embalming comes in at 150 Baht Vachira, 1500 Baht Phuket International ( plus 400 Baht Mortuary Set), 3000 Baht Bangkok Phuket.

In the event the patient is dead on arrival, Vachira charges 2000 Baht for the additional inspection and paper work.

The simplest answer is, Get married!

[diddums]

Thai mortuaries are quite fun.

Several years ago a friend went missing and after a few days we began searching the mortuaries.

We had fridge after fridge opened up for us with any foreigners laid out cold inside.

I took some photos.

[metisdead]

Inflammatory post and a reply has been removed as well as a trolling post.

[Bagwan]

My wife's aunt's husband died in Buriram Hospital and the death certificate and a doctor and a police sergeant signed the death certificate. The widow took the corpse home the following day and he was cremated soon afterwards. A member of his UK family arrived one week later and illegally took some of his father's belongings which rightfully belonged to his widow. I do not want my body transported to the Police Hospital in BKK and a Black and Decker run up the middle of my corpse so I asked three separate doctors who each told me that a post mortem is only carried out when there is doubt regarding the cause of death. All three doctors stated that no charge is made when a post mortem is carried out. If a doctor says heart attack a police sergeant isn't going to argue is he? If Thai cops don't give a fig for farangs when they are alive so they're hardly likely to bother themselves with a farang stiff. I doubt that any sane person would put it beyond a Thai cop trying to collect a few thou for his signature on the necessary documentation though.

I have had to dealt with the aftermath of his death arranging for Death Benefit to be paid by the UK Government and to collecting whatever UK assets that could be realised. Unfortunately my friend died intestate so his assets would accrue to his next of kin i.e. his Thai wife. His grasping UK offspring made representation to his bank stating that their father was a single unattached man and that they were his next of kin, so the bank handed over the credit balance of his account. Unfortunately for them I was above to produce a copy of his marriage certificate, his widow's Thai ID card, a copy of her passport and confirmation of her N.I. number. A similar exercise was carried out with his two pension funds. Members of his crooked family had to return the monies that they had collected and the last that I heard they were being charged by the police with obtaining money by false pretenses. It has been a long slog to put things right since the bank and pension providers would not use the Internet to communicate.

I would advise readers to forget about any 'Thainess' they have acquired and to plan ahead. The mantra that I have hammered home to my Thai family is that Buddha doesn't take care of anything. It is all up to you.The time to draw up a Will which will be accepted in every country that holds your assets is now. I suggest that a Will acceptable for each and every country is a sensible idea. Given the carnage on the road, and the danger of farangs falling from a great height, you never know when your time will come. All that it took to kill my friend was a bite by a bug which developed into Necrotizing Fasciitis which brought about a heart attack.

I hold that it would be financial suicide for your widow to consult a Thai lawyer to deal with the problems of obtaining her due rights. I don't take a rosy view of UK solicitors either. If you have a close and trusted friend you may care to enlist their help to watch each others backs so that their widows are not cheated out of what is due to her. My friends widow was considered to be no more than an inconsequential 'jungle bunny' by the UK family and treated accordingly. Can you be sure that your overseas family would not take a similar view? If you genuinely care for your wife take action now to protect her after your demise.

[NancyL]

When my best friend died when we were traveling here 3 years back, everyone was more than helpful. I was just a friend nothing more, but the body was sent and handled just how I wanted and everything was very easy.

I would assume is one is really married to a Thai, the spouse would have little trouble and getting things done as I have seem before.

If it's just some bar girl, or other rented girl you call your girl friend, yes, they may want to contact family or your Embassy.

I'm afraid it's not the simple here. Even a lawfully wedded spouse of decades duration needs a document from the foreigner's Embassy in order for the morgue to release the body.

[harrry]

THe following is a list of who is considered the person who can act on behalf of a deceased person in Western Australia. The Australian Embassy would be obliged to act in this way. Other states have similar provisions.

Senior next of kin

The senior next of kin is the first person who

is available, from the following people:

l a person who, immediately before the death,

was living with the person and was either:

i. legally married to the person

ii. aged 18 years or over and in a marriage-

like relationship with the person

l a son or daughter, who is 18 years or over

l a parent of the person

l a brother or sister, who is 18 or over

l an executor named in the will of the deceased

or a person who, immediately before the death,

was a personal representative of the deceased

l any person nominated by the person to be

contacted in an emergancy

http://www.coronerscourt.wa.gov.au/_files/When_A_Person_Dies_Suddenly.pdf

Edited January 26, 2013 by harrry

[up2you2]

THe following is a list of who is considered the person who can act on behalf of a deceased person in Western Australia. The Australian Embassy would be obliged to act in this way. Other states have similar provisions.

Senior next of kin

The senior next of kin is the first person who

is available, from the following people:

l a person who, immediately before the death,

was living with the person and was either:

i. legally married to the person

ii. aged 18 years or over and in a marriage-

like relationship with the person

l a son or daughter, who is 18 years or over

l a parent of the person

l a brother or sister, who is 18 or over

l an executor named in the will of the deceased

or a person who, immediately before the death,

was a personal representative of the deceased

l any person nominated by the person to be

contacted in an emergancy

http://www.coronersc...es_Suddenly.pdf

Not to be pedantic here, but what you are quoting from is the Government of Western Australia.

I would feel much more comfortable receiving this kind of confirmation from the actual Embassy your career will be contacting - the Bangkok Embassy.

Getting it in writing from them would give you complete piece of mind.

[StreetCowboy]

THe following is a list of who is considered the person who can act on behalf of a deceased person in Western Australia. The Australian Embassy would be obliged to act in this way. Other states have similar provisions.

Senior next of kin

The senior next of kin is the first person who

is available, from the following people:

l a person who, immediately before the death,

was living with the person and was either:

i. legally married to the person

ii. aged 18 years or over and in a marriage-

like relationship with the person

l a son or daughter, who is 18 years or over

l a parent of the person

l a brother or sister, who is 18 or over

l an executor named in the will of the deceased

or a person who, immediately before the death,

was a personal representative of the deceased

l any person nominated by the person to be

contacted in an emergancy

http://www.coronersc...es_Suddenly.pdf

I don't know if the order of the above is important; I hope not, as it is slightly distressing that your appointed executor ranks so far down the list. Again, it highlights the importance of formalising your relationship with the appropriate marriage documentation

[noob7]

But if you don't love your partner enough to marry her, I can't see why she should have any rights in this matter.

"If you liked it, then you shoulda put a ring on it"

I can't decide, that's why:

http://www.shutterstock.com/s/shackle/search.html

[harrry]

THe following is a list of who is considered the person who can act on behalf of a deceased person in Western Australia. The Australian Embassy would be obliged to act in this way. Other states have similar provisions.

Senior next of kin

The senior next of kin is the first person who

is available, from the following people:

l a person who, immediately before the death,

was living with the person and was either:

i. legally married to the person

ii. aged 18 years or over and in a marriage-

like relationship with the person

l a son or daughter, who is 18 years or over

l a parent of the person

l a brother or sister, who is 18 or over

l an executor named in the will of the deceased

or a person who, immediately before the death,

was a personal representative of the deceased

l any person nominated by the person to be

contacted in an emergancy

http://www.coronersc...es_Suddenly.pdf

I don't know if the order of the above is important; I hope not, as it is slightly distressing that your appointed executor ranks so far down the list. Again, it highlights the importance of formalising your relationship with the appropriate marriage documentation

It is in the order of this list.

[isanbirder]

What the Australian Embassy are handing out are the rules in Australia. This is Thailand; Australian rules do not apply. The embassy merely acts as a conduit for requests and information; it has no legal status in the matter.

[harrry]

What the Australian Embassy are handing out are the rules in Australia. This is Thailand; Australian rules do not apply. The embassy merely acts as a conduit for requests and information; it has no legal status in the matter.

In the case of death of a citizen they do. It is they who issue the autorisation to bury based on Australian rules.