Transport Ministry To Proceed With Bangkok-Chiang Mai High-Speed Rail Project

[Buchholz]

What a waste of money

Not needed

Just another plan for a few to get rich

Fortunately, not that much is involved.

OP:

Bangkok to Phitsanulok and will cost 240 billion baht

Phitsanulok and Chiang Mai will take place a year later, 380 billion baht

240,000,000,000

+ 380,000,000,000

620,000,000,000 (total)

x 0.30 (standard corruption cut)

186,000,000,000 Baht (to go to a few)

.

[Buchholz]

I'm puzzled and confused.

2012-05-22 we had then Transport Minister Jarupong say to have a THB 983.47 billion budget, for plans to construct 5 high-speed rail routes, including Bangkok-Chiang Mai, Bangkok-Nong Khai, Bangkok-Ubon Ratchathani, Bangkok-Rayong, and Bangkok-Padang Besar.

Now all of eight months later we need THB 380 + 240 (i.e. 620 billion) for Bangkok - CM alone. I did notice some give the link BKK-CM 745 km and some 665, but that hardly explains things. Also the firming of the Thai Baht doesn't match up.

They're operating under the belief that a "Buy 1 - Get 4 Free Sale" is a reasonable customer expectation.

.

[Pimay1]

If it's high speed I presume there wont be many, if any, (scheduled) stops en route. Fortunately I live in CM and if I have to go to BKK there's a much safer and quicker way about 35000 feet above.

Is there any statistics on the passenger per kilometer deaths out there?

This is from the Chinese Embassy in Bangkok website. But couldn't find deaths per kilometer. Of course we all know that the same circumstances that caused this train wreck in China will in no way apply to Thailand i.e. faulty signaling equipment and improper management.

On July 23, 2011, a high-speed train slammed into a stalled train near Wenzhou, resulting in 40 deaths and 172 people being injured. The accident was blamed on faulty signaling equipment and improper management.

[hellodolly]

Goodness so many negative attitudes regarding new technologies. There was a <deleted> ton of corruption in the whole 3G fiasco too, but we still got it finally. Would you rather we have stuck with 2G instead? Yes as always there will be corruption. But that's expected here. They are still trying to upgrade the country's infrastructures and I'm sure there are a few common people who would like to see a highspeed rail link between Thailand's two largest cities. 3 hours from BKK to Chiang Mai sounds great, and without the hassle of dealing with the airports!

What you say is true. I would love to see all of Thailand with the high speed trains. But as you say we get it and along with it we get a sh-tload of corruption. We don't like it but there is nothing we can do about it. It will never get less until the average Thai gets a good education and can see what is really going on in the government. alas And on we plod where we should be able to walk unhindered

[sprq]

A dedicated high-speed train service that will cover the 700km from Bangkok to CM in 3 hours? At vast cost and with vast environmental destruction? When simply upgrading the tracks and trains to normal express train standards as known in Europe for several decades would cost far far less, be far more beneficial to far more people, and would deliver BK-CM connections in about 4 hours?

This is nothing but nose-in-the trough politics, one more example of vast expense and disruption for the benefit of the very few.

[Arkady]

Once it's finished, you've still the problem of how to get to the station with luggage in Bangkok in a heavily congested, polluted part of town. For those without luggage it's not a very seamless connection from the subway. The airport is much easier for me and many others to get to.

[sprq]

Goodness so many negative attitudes regarding new technologies. There was a <deleted> ton of corruption in the whole 3G fiasco too, but we still got it finally. Would you rather we have stuck with 2G instead? Yes as always there will be corruption. But that's expected here. They are still trying to upgrade the country's infrastructures and I'm sure there are a few common people who would like to see a highspeed rail link between Thailand's two largest cities. 3 hours from BKK to Chiang Mai sounds great, and without the hassle of dealing with the airports!

The point is that this is technology far above the actual needs of the country. Thailand is yet to move into the normal standards of express train service seen in Europe since the 1960s. What Thailand actually needs is the upgrading of all its railway lines to dual track of modern standards with modern trains and carriages. Then you would have a modern railway system -- still very limited, with only three major lines, to the north, south and northeast, but modern and fast.

That's what Thailand needs, at far less cost than high-speed trains. Building one high-speed line at vast cost instead of upgrading the whole system at far less cost is a misuse of technology and of Thailand's resources. And be sure, be very sure, that the only beneficiaries will be the limited number of affluent travellers and the politicians and officials with their noses in the contract trough.

[Ricardo]

Once it's finished, you've still the problem of how to get to the station with luggage in Bangkok in a heavily congested, polluted part of town. For those without luggage it's not a very seamless connection from the subway. The airport is much easier for me and many others to get to.

At least one of the announcements, from the various bodies recently claiming to be in-control of the project (bribe Me ! No, No, Bribe MEEE !), suggested that the new terminal for high-speed trains would be in Bang Sue (sorry if I've spelt that wrong !) to the north of Hualampong.

This is sensible, in that the SRT have lots of hardly-used land up there, but of course also means that the new terminal won't link the the SkyTrain or Underground at all, good news for those lucky Red-leaning taxi-drivers once again ! Loyalty should be rewarded, after all !

Perhaps someone might build a short express-link from there into the old Hualampong station, elevated so as to avoid disrupting road-traffic with level-crossings, they might call it Hopewell-II or something ?

[OzMick]

Once it's finished, you've still the problem of how to get to the station with luggage in Bangkok in a heavily congested, polluted part of town. For those without luggage it's not a very seamless connection from the subway. The airport is much easier for me and many others to get to.

At least one of the announcements, from the various bodies recently claiming to be in-control of the project (bribe Me ! No, No, Bribe MEEE !), suggested that the new terminal for high-speed trains would be in Bang Sue (sorry if I've spelt that wrong !) to the north of Hualampong.

This is sensible, in that the SRT have lots of hardly-used land up there, but of course also means that the new terminal won't link the the SkyTrain or Underground at all, good news for those lucky Red-leaning taxi-drivers once again ! Loyalty should be rewarded, after all !

Perhaps someone might build a short express-link from there into the old Hualampong station, elevated so as to avoid disrupting road-traffic with level-crossings, they might call it Hopewell-II or something ?

Bang Sue is the right spelling, but it has a MRT (underground) station.

http://bangkok.sawadee.com/mrta.htm

Edited January 26, 2013 by OzMick

[rubl]

Once it's finished, you've still the problem of how to get to the station with luggage in Bangkok in a heavily congested, polluted part of town. For those without luggage it's not a very seamless connection from the subway. The airport is much easier for me and many others to get to.

At least one of the announcements, from the various bodies recently claiming to be in-control of the project (bribe Me ! No, No, Bribe MEEE !), suggested that the new terminal for high-speed trains would be in Bang Sue (sorry if I've spelt that wrong !) to the north of Hualampong.

This is sensible, in that the SRT have lots of hardly-used land up there, but of course also means that the new terminal won't link the the SkyTrain or Underground at all, good news for those lucky Red-leaning taxi-drivers once again ! Loyalty should be rewarded, after all !

Perhaps someone might build a short express-link from there into the old Hualampong station, elevated so as to avoid disrupting road-traffic with level-crossings, they might call it Hopewell-II or something ?

The North bound rail link starting at HuaLampong is indeed a pain for traffic as it (level) crosses many important roads. The location makes an elevated track somewhat unlikely, but moving it down should be possible.

[khunken]

The SRT is already receiving money to upgrade the existing tracks to dual lines. They've received a grant from the ADB.

This is beginning to smell like Hopewell deja vu. One can only stagger at the sheer extravagance of this which has more than a hint of Thaksinomics about it.

[Ricardo]

Bang Sue is the right spelling, but it has a MRT (underground) station.

http://bangkok.sawadee.com/mrta.htm

I stand corrected, Many Thanks !

[EOVATA]

Thailand needs to have much better roads and high speed rail is not needed

[Valentine]

A dedicated high-speed train service that will cover the 700km from Bangkok to CM in 3 hours? At vast cost and with vast environmental destruction? When simply upgrading the tracks and trains to normal express train standards as known in Europe for several decades would cost far far less, be far more beneficial to far more people, and would deliver BK-CM connections in about 4 hours?

This is nothing but nose-in-the trough politics, one more example of vast expense and disruption for the benefit of the very few.

It will also keep the Chinese happy as they seem to be the front runners to build it.

[otherstuff1957]

I Just hope that this doesn't become another Hopewell Project:

[Valentine]

I Just hope that this doesn't become another Hopewell Project:

There were plans to incorporate those structures into Bangkok's rail system but arguments & court cases dragged on for years over compensation to Hopewell. I wonder if there has been an end result to this fiasco yet. If they are not going to be used they should be pulled down. If they are going to be used I wonder if they are structurally sound. Hopewell is a Chinese company out of Hong Kong.

If the HS system goes ahead the main consideration will be who gets what with safety & benefits to the public way down the list.

[otherstuff1957]

They actually spent months (and millions of baht) removing the old Hopewell pillars from along Rama 9 when they were building the airport link. Apparently some of the uncompleted pillars were not structurally sound and the others were not the right shape to be incorporated into the new rail system.

I expect that some additional 10s of millions will be spend removing the Hopewell pillars that parallel Vipawadi-Rangsit, if and when they extend the Airport link up to Don Muang.

Currently they stand as a monument to man's greed and stupidity.

[Buchholz]

They actually spent months (and millions of baht) removing the old Hopewell pillars from along Rama 9 when they were building the airport link. Apparently some of the uncompleted pillars were not structurally sound and the others were not the right shape to be incorporated into the new rail system.

I expect that some additional 10s of millions will be spend removing the Hopewell pillars that parallel Vipawadi-Rangsit, if and when they extend the Airport link up to Don Muang.

Currently they stand as a monument to man's greed and stupidity.

It's not standing very well... huge sections are collapsing; not this could ever possibly happen with a high-speed rail line to Chiang Mai. No way.

This crumbling 150-metre stretch of the abandoned Hopewell Project is a source of alarm for people living nearby.

No injuries, but debris litters railway; officials say parts of supporting scaffolding stolen

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Hopewell-section-crumbles-30177122.html

.

Edited January 27, 2013 by Buchholz

[DtemJai]

A dedicated high-speed train service that will cover the 700km from Bangkok to CM in 3 hours? At vast cost and with vast environmental destruction? When simply upgrading the tracks and trains to normal express train standards as known in Europe for several decades would cost far far less, be far more beneficial to far more people, and would deliver BK-CM connections in about 4 hours?

This is nothing but nose-in-the trough politics, one more example of vast expense and disruption for the benefit of the very few

Edited January 27, 2013 by DtemJai

[dcutman]

outdated, underdeveloped, poorly maintained power grid

can only dispose of 36% of solid waste (garbage) properly

capable of only treating 10% of waste water(sewage), countrywide

uncontrolled industrial waste, air and water pollution

half the country prone to seasonal flooding

Hmmmm Lets dump B2trillion on a high speed show pony

[Choonpon]

Chinagmai-BKK? what an stupid thing, it should be BKK-Pattaya

Maybe the government has plan to move the capital to CM in the future?

[Choonpon]

How much money are the corrupted officials going to pocket from these projects? Inferior quality, over reported budget, compromising of safety standards, etc...

[Buchholz]

How much money are the corrupted officials going to pocket from these projects? Inferior quality, over reported budget, compromising of safety standards, etc...

Somewhere in the neighborhood of 744 Billion 25-satang coins.

OP:

Bangkok to Phitsanulok and will cost 240 billion baht

Phitsanulok and Chiang Mai will take place a year later, 380 billion baht

240,000,000,000

+ 380,000,000,000

620,000,000,000 (total)

x 0.30 (standard corruption cut)

186,000,000,000 Baht (to go to a few)

[naboo]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21231044

Apparently in the UK, a High Speed rail link between London and Birmingham is going to take 9 years to build (that is about 200km). To complete to Leeds and Manchester, totaling about 500km will take a total of 16 years from the beginning of construction.

If Thailand finishes the BKK-CNX line before the UK does, I will walk the line, both ways. Not a chance. But Yingluck has worked out thee lunch menu, so that's a little head start.

[Ricardo]

It's always important to know, what to put in lunch-boxes, look how plans can go awry when one gets the contents wrong !