Russia Debates Bill To Ban 'gay Propaganda'

[isanbirder]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21194710

The most dangerous aspect of this seems to be that it doesn't define 'gay propaganda'. Banning gay pride marches and any publicity for them is at least comprehensible, though repressive. So Russian gays will only know 'it' is banned, without knowing exactly what it is.

[tombkk]

Under the new bill, private individuals promoting "homosexual behaviour among minors" in Russia face fines of up to 5,000 roubles (£105; 124 euros; $166) while officials risk paying 10 times that amount. Businesses and schools could be fined up to 500,000 roubles.

I am not sure anybody in other countries actively promotes homosexual behaviour among minors, so this might now be as big an issue. The article does not generalize and say that all gay propaganda is prohibited if the bill is passed. But then, we have not read the actual bill and depend on the interpretation of one journalist.

[isanbirder]

Another quote from the BBC:-

"Yelena Kostyuchenko, a gay rights campaigner and journalist with the Russian newspaper Novaya Gazeta, told AP news agency: "The law absolutely does not define what gay propaganda is and the reasons are understandable because gay propaganda does not exist.

"In that respect, any information on, as the law puts it, 'equal values of traditional and unorthodox marital relations' is considered 'gay propaganda'." "

Edited January 26, 2013 by isanbirder

[endure]

The most dangerous aspect of this is that a government, of whatever flavour, thinks that it has the right to ban the private behaviour of its citizens.

[JemJem]

What has been happening in Russia in recent years is a phucking disgrace ! Also, I wonder how the Russian forum-members here think about all this.

Neo-Nazi gangs have been on the increase in Russia, often killing and wounding foreigners as well as left-wingers, with the government there doing basically nothing to clamp down on this scum.

Recently, the Pussy Riot members have been jailed there for upsetting Putin (yes, of course, the given reason for the sentence was not that).

And, now, this disgraceful, bigoted bill. On TV, there was the footage of Orthodox Christian extremists beating gay activists who were protesting against this bill, with no cops around. Then I heard that they arrested the activists, not the Orthodox-fascist scum.

Russia is another country that I will never set a foot in, as long as there is all that bigotry (government-assisted and/or protected bigotry in many cases).

Edited January 27, 2013 by JemJem

[Jingthing]

The political situation for gay people in Russia is clearly getting worse. The homophobia there is severe. I saw a film once which said in Russia the most common word for gay people, ALL gay people, is Pedo. Can someone familiar with Russia confirm that?

There is some discussion in Pattaya which now in high season is experiencing over half of the high season tourists being from Russia (not to mention other Russian speaking tourists) that there is a culture clash between the Russians and the gays. Of course some of the Russians ARE gay. Most of these Russians appear to be the kind of Russians that would support Putin, in other words, the anti-gay kinds of Russians rather than more liberal Russians. I have witnessed ladyboys being rudely mocked by groups of Russians. I fear we'll see more of these kinds of incidents, Russian homophobia exported to Thailand.

More on what's happening in Russia:

Liberal Russians could only mourn the episode and what it represents.

“Homophobia raised to the level of state politics is classic fascism,” Georgy Satarov, a Boris Yeltsin-era liberal and head of the anti-corruption Indem Foundation, wrote on his Facebook page. “Do you want your children to study under fascism?”

http://www.washingto...10a3_story.html Edited January 30, 2013 by Jingthing

[JemJem]

So, by the way, who is going to protect the children from 'religious propaganda' ?

Religion often kills, wounds, destroys, discriminates ; but homosexuals and lesbians don't do any harm via their sexual orientation.

[Jingthing]

So, by the way, who is going to protect the children from 'religious propaganda' ?

Religion often kills, wounds, destroys, discriminates ; but homosexuals and lesbians don't do any harm via their sexual orientation.

This isn't actually about protecting children. It's about UGLY politics. Something dictators do and have always done. Scapegoat unpopular minority groups, paint them as boogeymen and the enemies of the people, pass draconian laws persecuting them. It's just good politics. Unless you happen to be a member of the targeted group. Edited January 30, 2013 by Jingthing

[tombkk]

This topic is not about religions, this is about Russians.

My friend told me that there are many Russians in Paradise Complex (Phuket gay area), and they are gay and happy. Apparently, they come in groups of people aged under 30. Maybe that's the new generation?

[JemJem]

This topic is not about religions, this is about Russians.

My friend told me that there are many Russians in Paradise Complex (Phuket gay area), and they are gay and happy. Apparently, they come in groups of people aged under 30. Maybe that's the new generation?

I didn't mean to go off the topic. But let me say that the factor of religion is not really off topic here. Why do you think that bill is introduced ? Don't you think religion is the main reason ?

When some backward Islamic regime introduces a discriminatory bill, it is okay to criticise (which I agree of course that it should be criticised), but it isn't okay to criticise Russia this way, you mean ?? Orthodox Christianity is immune from such criticism here ??

By the way, a few days ago, I heard on BBC that the majority of the Russian public support this anti-gay bill.

[tombkk]

This topic is not about religions, this is about Russians.

My friend told me that there are many Russians in Paradise Complex (Phuket gay area), and they are gay and happy. Apparently, they come in groups of people aged under 30. Maybe that's the new generation?

I didn't mean to go off the topic. But let me say that the factor of religion is not really off topic here. Why do you think that bill is introduced ? Don't you think religion is the main reason ?

When some backward Islamic regime introduces a discriminatory bill, it is okay to criticise (which I agree of course that it should be criticised), but it isn't okay to criticise Russia this way, you mean ?? Orthodox Christianity is immune from such criticism here ??

By the way, a few days ago, I heard on BBC that the majority of the Russian public support this anti-gay bill.

I don't know what religion the majority of Russians coming to Thailand really follow. There are statistics about the major religions in Russia, but that's not what I mean. I think it is dangerous to judge Russian tourists to Thailand and their perception of homosexuality by referring to the major religion in their home country. Maybe Thailand even attracts the people who do not agree with the major religion?

See, there I made religion a major part of my reply. My point is that not all Russians, and maybe especially those who go to the gay areas, couldn't care less about the major religion in their home country.

[Jingthing]

I reckon it is a super safe bet that gay Russians, the ones in Russia and the ones coming to Thailand, are NOT anti-gay.

Anyway, isn't the OP about the repressive anti-gay laws in Russia? (Which are obviously "justified" by RUSSIAN ORTHODOX religion.)

I think if you're talking anti-gay laws in Iran, Iranian style Islamic doctrine is relevant. If you're talking anti-gay laws in the USA, American style Christian fundamentalism is relevant. Et cetera. Et cetera.

It's very difficult (and why would you want to, why would you need to) totally separate the general subject of anti-gay laws from the religious traditions that are used to rationalize them.

To wit, from my link before:

The national bill follows the passage of similar laws in St. Petersburg, Novosibirsk and three other cities, tapping into an ideology promoted by President Vladimir Putin and his circle that combines anti-Westernism, Russian exceptionalism and conservative Orthodox religious beliefs

More about the connection:

On the next day, an Orthodox priest said he regretted that his religious role had not allowed him to participate in the beating.

"Until this scum gets off of Russian land, I fully share the views of those who are trying to purge our motherland of it," Rev. Sergiy Rybko was quoted as saying by the Orthodoxy and World online magazine. "We either become a tolerant Western state where everything is allowed – and lose our Christianity and moral foundations – or we will be a Christian people who live in our God-protected land in purity and godliness."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20130121/eu-russia-anti-gay-law-/?utm_hp_ref=arts&ir=arts Edited January 31, 2013 by Jingthing

[JemJem]

This topic is not about religions, this is about Russians.

My friend told me that there are many Russians in Paradise Complex (Phuket gay area), and they are gay and happy. Apparently, they come in groups of people aged under 30. Maybe that's the new generation?

I didn't mean to go off the topic. But let me say that the factor of religion is not really off topic here. Why do you think that bill is introduced ? Don't you think religion is the main reason ?

When some backward Islamic regime introduces a discriminatory bill, it is okay to criticise (which I agree of course that it should be criticised), but it isn't okay to criticise Russia this way, you mean ?? Orthodox Christianity is immune from such criticism here ??

By the way, a few days ago, I heard on BBC that the majority of the Russian public support this anti-gay bill.

I don't know what religion the majority of Russians coming to Thailand really follow. There are statistics about the major religions in Russia, but that's not what I mean. I think it is dangerous to judge Russian tourists to Thailand and their perception of homosexuality by referring to the major religion in their home country. Maybe Thailand even attracts the people who do not agree with the major religion?

See, there I made religion a major part of my reply. My point is that not all Russians, and maybe especially those who go to the gay areas, couldn't care less about the major religion in their home country.

Correct but I wasn't really talking about the Russian tourists to Thailand. As Jingthing wrote above, the topic is about the bill in Russia.

It is sad to see that Russia is going backwards in this aspect, when many states around the world are gradually adopting gay marriage or at least civil unions.

Edited February 1, 2013 by JemJem