After 10 Years Issan Still Amazes Me.

[rct99q]

Love reading your posts, Jim. Nearly 5 years here now married to a lovely Isan women and could not think of a better place to be. Perfect??. No. Better then my first go around and first wife (passed away) no, but not worse, different.

In the "west" we did the same thing as this only it was labelled different. The "boss" was having a party and it was expected to bring gifts. The better the gift the more "credit" you were given. Or the neighbors had a party or you had a party. Many of these same people all tried to out do one another with the style of gifts. My income level back in Canada was around 250-300,00. We had friends from school days etc..but as your income increased or decreased your social friends changed with it...to some extent. I knew people making in the millions and although invited to their parties it was difficult to connect with some as their lifestyle was way above ours. We would talk about our holiday to Playa Del Carmen...they would talk about the yacht they sailed around the Med for 2 months...

So here in Thailand it happens...same as it did in the West...for me anyway. But here the wife is not stuck on being the big provider. last weekend the neighbors held a birthday party...I am (as always when I hear this...how much ..or what are we supposed to bring) and the answer is the usual from my wife...what did they give us last time (200 baht) we give the same back....a whole night of drinking, eating, music....an excellent night all in all.

My point.....MY life is not all that much different than the previous one (so to speak)...locale is different...but people are similar...and just as happy....count myself extremely lucky to have two excellent goes so far in this life......hopefully this will be the second and last....

[Jezz]

But you cant compare with UK because here we have no rights on benefits an finance ourselves.

As I understand it there are some nasty shocks in store regarding benefits for UK citizens returning home just to grab some National Health benefits. Free hospital treatment, for one, now only appies to the most urgent and extreme cases if you've lived abroad a long time.

[robblok]

But you cant compare with UK because here we have no rights on benefits an finance ourselves.

As I understand it there are some nasty shocks in store regarding benefits for UK citizens returning home just to grab some National Health benefits. Free hospital treatment, for one, now only appies to the most urgent and extreme cases if you've lived abroad a long time.

I would not know I am not from the UK, but what i meant with the post was that i see why the UK government wants people to speak English else they cant get a job and will be leeching on the system forever. While here we can't leach on the system and support ourselves. That is why i don't feel they are comparable. Anyway it would help me study even more for my Thai as sometimes its good to be forced.

[BradinAsia]

Wow! Looks like I hit a minefield.

I pointed no fingers, but only referred to a particularly despicable type of farang.

It's unfortunate some folks get upset upon seeing themselves in that description.

The issue with the donation box was not about giving or not giving -- it's voluntary.

The issue was the tourist's surly, despicable attitude toward the local people.

By the way, I'm not smarter or better than others, but I certainly don't go to other

countries and despise the people and derogate their culture as a knee-jerk reaction

when I have very little understanding of the culture.

This is precisely where the expression "ugly American" originated.

[rgs2001uk]

Love reading your posts, Jim. Nearly 5 years here now married to a lovely Isan women and could not think of a better place to be. Perfect??. No. Better then my first go around and first wife (passed away) no, but not worse, different.

In the "west" we did the same thing as this only it was labelled different. The "boss" was having a party and it was expected to bring gifts. The better the gift the more "credit" you were given. Or the neighbors had a party or you had a party. Many of these same people all tried to out do one another with the style of gifts. My income level back in Canada was around 250-300,00. We had friends from school days etc..but as your income increased or decreased your social friends changed with it...to some extent. I knew people making in the millions and although invited to their parties it was difficult to connect with some as their lifestyle was way above ours. We would talk about our holiday to Playa Del Carmen...they would talk about the yacht they sailed around the Med for 2 months...

So here in Thailand it happens...same as it did in the West...for me anyway. But here the wife is not stuck on being the big provider. last weekend the neighbors held a birthday party...I am (as always when I hear this...how much ..or what are we supposed to bring) and the answer is the usual from my wife...what did they give us last time (200 baht) we give the same back....a whole night of drinking, eating, music....an excellent night all in all.

My point.....MY life is not all that much different than the previous one (so to speak)...locale is different...but people are similar...and just as happy....count myself extremely lucky to have two excellent goes so far in this life......hopefully this will be the second and last....

.how much ..or what are we supposed to bring) and the answer is the usual from my wife...what did they give us last time (200 baht) we give the same back.

At last, someone who has his finger on the pulse.

My mrs keeps a ledger in the house of how much was paid out and to whom, how much was paid back.

Next time you recieve an invite to anything, have a look there will be written in Thai a number that relates to your name.

When you go to a wedding for instance and hand over the envelope your details will be noted, how much did you donate.

These days they are getting smart, Excel spreadsheets set up so they can keep a running total to know how much the hosts are in profit or loss.

C25= at sumC1..C24, C26=C25-A1.

Edited January 28, 2013 by rgs2001uk

[jamescollister]

As things drift of on a tangent, I will just stick his in. The wife on birthdays often does things like this, usually she feeds the local school. You can You Tube my name and see one or two vids, kids eat and ice cream and soft drinks are given. Women in the village help prepare. Kids around 300 have a special party day. It's her way, when I met her she was thinking of going to Cambodia to help the orphans. She has a good heart and maybe a little bit of an ego in the village, but she means well and will give 500 Baht to a homeless old man in BKK, because he has no family.

We all live in different worlds, this is my world and I would not trade it for anything. Jim

[SantiSuk]

Seems like anytime religion is involved there has to be a collections team and a book to record who gave and how much. Same at funerals, weddings and political events. Whoever said that Thais don't care how much is brought doesn't know much about village culture - around these parts at least! The mutterings can last for days

Come to think of it birthday parties are one of the few occasions to escape this rather unpleasant practice, but they are all still watching.

Thinking further, the one event where I do like the spirit of giving is the family/neighbours New Year party where a limit of 200 baht is set in advance (50 baht for kids), everyone buys one present and wraps it; then there is a draw and lots of merriment as recipients try to swap their 'prizes' for something more appropriate to their needs. My wife told me to put my money away when I offered to buy a 1,000 baht gift - 'not good - people will be jealous'. Socialist principles are sometimes the most effective for harmony!

[cooked]

At a recent wedding it was decided beforehand that everyone give ฿500.- As step father I gave rather more but things were very discrete. Less discrete were the one hundred one thousand Baht notes that were counted out onto a tray. This money was returned after the wedding.What I mean is, these are customs that have been followed for a long time now, snorting indignantly at the way things are done here certainly won't help.

As a kid we lived in a tiny terrace house. I was not allowed ever, to go into the front room, this was where we kept the 'good' stuff (load of old tat really), visible through the front window. We lived in the kitchen. I can think of countless other European examples and parallels where 'saving face' or whatever you want to call it exists.

[BradinAsia]

Love reading your posts, Jim. Nearly 5 years here now married to a lovely Isan women and could not think of a better place to be. Perfect??. No. Better then my first go around and first wife (passed away) no, but not worse, different.

In the "west" we did the same thing as this only it was labelled different. The "boss" was having a party and it was expected to bring gifts. The better the gift the more "credit" you were given. Or the neighbors had a party or you had a party. Many of these same people all tried to out do one another with the style of gifts. My income level back in Canada was around 250-300,00. We had friends from school days etc..but as your income increased or decreased your social friends changed with it...to some extent. I knew people making in the millions and although invited to their parties it was difficult to connect with some as their lifestyle was way above ours. We would talk about our holiday to Playa Del Carmen...they would talk about the yacht they sailed around the Med for 2 months...

So here in Thailand it happens...same as it did in the West...for me anyway. But here the wife is not stuck on being the big provider. last weekend the neighbors held a birthday party...I am (as always when I hear this...how much ..or what are we supposed to bring) and the answer is the usual from my wife...what did they give us last time (200 baht) we give the same back....a whole night of drinking, eating, music....an excellent night all in all.

My point.....MY life is not all that much different than the previous one (so to speak)...locale is different...but people are similar...and just as happy....count myself extremely lucky to have two excellent goes so far in this life......hopefully this will be the second and last....

Great post.

A man finds himself transplanted into a new culture, a new environment. He accepts it for what it is, he adapts. And maybe most important, he approaches his new life and the people around him with an open mind. He shows them normal kindness and respect. And the result -- he is treated with kindness and respect. It is gratifying to see that many expats are enjoying a happy, peaceful and interesting life deep in the provinces of an alien culture.

Maybe it's just a matter of attitude and outlook.

[laislica]

At a recent wedding it was decided beforehand that everyone give ฿500.- As step father I gave rather more but things were very discrete. Less discrete were the one hundred one thousand Baht notes that were counted out onto a tray. This money was returned after the wedding.What I mean is, these are customs that have been followed for a long time now, snorting indignantly at the way things are done here certainly won't help.

As a kid we lived in a tiny terrace house. I was not allowed ever, to go into the front room, this was where we kept the 'good' stuff (load of old tat really), visible through the front window. We lived in the kitchen. I can think of countless other European examples and parallels where 'saving face' or whatever you want to call it exists.

Oh, the front room......

and do you remember the poor Irish communities (and I'm sure many others) whose priest told them that the next collection would be a silent one, meaning only bank notes, no coins....

Of course this would be the Easter collection which always went to the priest.....

[robblok]

Wow! Looks like I hit a minefield.

I pointed no fingers, but only referred to a particularly despicable type of farang.

It's unfortunate some folks get upset upon seeing themselves in that description.

The issue with the donation box was not about giving or not giving -- it's voluntary.

The issue was the tourist's surly, despicable attitude toward the local people.

By the way, I'm not smarter or better than others, but I certainly don't go to other

countries and despise the people and derogate their culture as a knee-jerk reaction

when I have very little understanding of the culture.

This is precisely where the expression "ugly American" originated.

Of course the racial slut was despicable, I would never say such a thing or presume i'm better as the locals. But I would check customs on its merits and see what is good and bad. I am a lot younger then many of you and brought up different in a different time. I am also brought up without religion so i see things differently.

My parents never showed money or went for show that was something we were taught early on, also were taught its not only about intelligence its often the hard workers that win the ones that don't give up. Anyway so part of my upbringing clashes with the face thing here in Thailand and if you look at the face thing its actually a bad thing. Its hard to find any good things about it. There are other parts of the culture that are quite good like taking care of the parents and such. I just think one should look at culture and habits and not accept it because it is (culture ever changes anyway) but to see if its good and bad. I am sure i got bad habits from my culture too and if there are better Thai ones i'm willing to change.

Anyway thing is a Thai lady gets a farang husband, then both have to change a bit and both have to realize that. Its not that one of the two has to change completely. They both choose for a foreign partner with its benefits and drawbacks. Anyway there are still things i don't like but you don't have to do it all together. I have learned to say no, and sorry that is your culture not mine you can do it but i won't be part of it.

I don't believe in assimilation but adaptation, of course I changed.. everyone changes it all depends how far you change.

Just my 2 cents and i certainly don't look down on all locals just on some of them just like back home i don't like stupidity whether it be Thai or Dutch stupidity or ignorance. But as i am in Thailand it will be mostly Thai issues.

Jim this has nothing to do with you as i said before i liked your story for the most part. I like how you write things, i have just buttons like every other person that when pushed elicit a response (maybe that is one of my bad habits). I do like where this discussion went about the Thai language and stuff like this. At least it did not go down to name calling and such but more like a debate and points of view.

Edited January 29, 2013 by robblok

[Gweiloman]

Wow! Looks like I hit a minefield.

I pointed no fingers, but only referred to a particularly despicable type of farang.

It's unfortunate some folks get upset upon seeing themselves in that description.

The issue with the donation box was not about giving or not giving -- it's voluntary.

The issue was the tourist's surly, despicable attitude toward the local people.

By the way, I'm not smarter or better than others, but I certainly don't go to other

countries and despise the people and derogate their culture as a knee-jerk reaction

when I have very little understanding of the culture.

This is precisely where the expression "ugly American" originated.

Yes, it seems like you definitely hit a sore nerve with some. They see a bit of themselves described in your post. Maybe a lot of them came to live in Thailand with mistaken and misplaced beliefs - thinking themselves superior to the locals and thereby expecting a different level of treatment, only to be brought crashing down to earth.

I understand completely your point about the donation box too. I've been to most of the major monuments in Europe, such as Tower of London, St. Pauls Cathedral, Notre Dame, Versailles, the Alhambra, Leaning Tower of Pisa, Vatican, St. Vitus etc. Some charge an entrance fee, some don't. Would I make a donation to say Versailles? Hell no, I already pay Eur 14 for the privilege. However, I would gladly make a donation to those places where entrance is free, notwithstanding whether the locals do or not. Like you said, it's entirely voluntary.

One final thing - I do sincerely believe that you are the best (English) teacher I have come across on the forum, based on your sentence construction, grammar and lack of spelling error . Mind you, the bar is quite low though

[SantiSuk]

Unnecessary display of wealth is frowned on by most religions - unless the display is linked to money going into religion of course.

Mr Agnostic

[cooked]

At a recent wedding it was decided beforehand that everyone give ฿500.- As step father I gave rather more but things were very discrete. Less discrete were the one hundred one thousand Baht notes that were counted out onto a tray. This money was returned after the wedding.What I mean is, these are customs that have been followed for a long time now, snorting indignantly at the way things are done here certainly won't help.

As a kid we lived in a tiny terrace house. I was not allowed ever, to go into the front room, this was where we kept the 'good' stuff (load of old tat really), visible through the front window. We lived in the kitchen. I can think of countless other European examples and parallels where 'saving face' or whatever you want to call it exists.

Oh, the front room......

and do you remember the poor Irish communities (and I'm sure many others) whose priest told them that the next collection would be a silent one, meaning only bank notes, no coins....

Of course this would be the Easter collection which always went to the priest.....

and primarily, no more buttons!

[laislica]

At a recent wedding it was decided beforehand that everyone give ฿500.- As step father I gave rather more but things were very discrete. Less discrete were the one hundred one thousand Baht notes that were counted out onto a tray. This money was returned after the wedding.What I mean is, these are customs that have been followed for a long time now, snorting indignantly at the way things are done here certainly won't help.

As a kid we lived in a tiny terrace house. I was not allowed ever, to go into the front room, this was where we kept the 'good' stuff (load of old tat really), visible through the front window. We lived in the kitchen. I can think of countless other European examples and parallels where 'saving face' or whatever you want to call it exists.

Oh, the front room......

and do you remember the poor Irish communities (and I'm sure many others) whose priest told them that the next collection would be a silent one, meaning only bank notes, no coins....

Of course this would be the Easter collection which always went to the priest.....

and primarily, no more buttons!

We used to Dream of Buttons LOL

[ALFREDO]

with the exception of viewing new scenery, I find no (social interaction) joy whatsoever from visiting rural Isaan villages.

They are mostly filled with aged, illiterate, and inumerate folks who are constantly on the take. These people spend the bulk of their time gossiping about petty issues, picking their noses, spitting, drinking, and gambling. The remaining village denizens comprise of the snotty nosed toddlers left behind in the care of the drunken grandparents because the fathers have cleared out to avoid any parental burdens, and the mothers are off selling themselves in Patts, Phuket or GrungThep.

Its hot, dirty, dusty...boring...and uncomfortable...and absolutely inevitable that you will be treated as a cash cow.

Pray tell, what is the attraction of being exposed to headlice and tuberculosis?

Really, so bad?

I do not feel it in that way and the "attraction" are my sons and my GF

and sometime visiting or meeting another Falang Expat who does not see it,

feel it so bad either,

is a diversity from the quiet family life without cold gloomy winter at that time of the year.

By the way, I had never had problems with head lice, they mat be with me, as I have, a "nearly" bald head

TBC? A lot here, sure? I did not mention.

Edited January 29, 2013 by ALFREDO

[ALFREDO]

My wife usually trys to rescue me from her family and village after about a week in Isaan, she realizes we are 'pissing' off our money at rate faster than anywhere and she'd rather have that money. I don't mind spending a bit, but the Human ATM factor gets old.

Cannot say that for me.

Its much more expensive if I stay in the more civilized parts of TH, Patong, Pattaya, Bangkok,

with or without my GF, (but even more without GF) I use a lot of all the special "offerings" there!

Expensive indeed than!

[laislica]

My wife usually trys to rescue me from her family and village after about a week in Isaan, she realizes we are 'pissing' off our money at rate faster than anywhere and she'd rather have that money. I don't mind spending a bit, but the Human ATM factor gets old.

Cannot say that for me.

Its much more expensive if I stay in the more civilized parts of TH, Patong, Pattaya, Bangkok,

with or without my GF, (but even more without GF) I use a lot of all the special "offerings" there!

Expensive indeed than!

Baad boy!

[ALFREDO]

When he dies after some 15 years living in that village he is refered to as the "falang".... He do not have a gender, he do not have a country (nobody care about that), he do not have a name, he do not have any past, and he do not have any future.

Glegolo

Hmmm.

"When he dies after some 15 years living in that village ............he do not have any future."

So,

-If he dies and did not live in that village some 15 years before, he would have a future?

[jamescollister]

I won't describe my personal situation here in Isaan (though not in a village) or how my finances work out. All I will say is that, as I hit age 50 in the USA, I was looking straight down the barrel at the prospect of being a very lonely old man. Now my prospects are anything but. How do you put a price on that?

You don't have to get fleeced to feel 'young' again..

I do it for free, so to speak...

Free beaver, free sunhine, free beaches....getting yoked with a wife and the extended family complicates things in a myriad ways....

Have done it...never again

I rarely go over the 500$ per month and I have a GOOD life...

My kids spend more than that, 3 and 5 years old. 15,000 Bht a month would cover my beer bill and I don't have any where to go out to.

Wonder how some folks live, must be hell where you come from, if it's better here on $500 US a month.

Jim

[rgs2001uk]

I won't describe my personal situation here in Isaan (though not in a village) or how my finances work out. All I will say is that, as I hit age 50 in the USA, I was looking straight down the barrel at the prospect of being a very lonely old man. Now my prospects are anything but. How do you put a price on that?

They tell me Somalia is nice this time of year.

I also heard a rumour all the cash strapped Brits will be heading to Mali once the frogs clear the insurgents.

Watch this space.

You don't have to get fleeced to feel 'young' again..

I do it for free, so to speak...

Free beaver, free sunhine, free beaches....getting yoked with a wife and the extended family complicates things in a myriad ways....

Have done it...never again

I rarely go over the 500$ per month and I have a GOOD life...

My kids spend more than that, 3 and 5 years old. 15,000 Bht a month would cover my beer bill and I don't have any where to go out to.

Wonder how some folks live, must be hell where you come from, if it's better here on $500 US a month.

Jim

<deleted>, whats happened to this forum after the latest update.

Anyway as I was trying to say.

They tell me Somalia is nice this time of year.

I also had a little bird tell me most of the cash strapped Brits will head to Mali once the frogs have cleared the insurgents.

Watch this space.

Edited February 24, 2013 by rgs2001uk

[jamescollister]

I won't describe my personal situation here in Isaan (though not in a village) or how my finances work out. All I will say is that, as I hit age 50 in the USA, I was looking straight down the barrel at the prospect of being a very lonely old man. Now my prospects are anything but. How do you put a price on that?

They tell me Somalia is nice this time of year.

I also heard a rumour all the cash strapped Brits will be heading to Mali once the frogs clear the insurgents.

Watch this space.

You don't have to get fleeced to feel 'young' again..

I do it for free, so to speak...

Free beaver, free sunhine, free beaches....getting yoked with a wife and the extended family complicates things in a myriad ways....

Have done it...never again

I rarely go over the 500$ per month and I have a GOOD life...

My kids spend more than that, 3 and 5 years old. 15,000 Bht a month would cover my beer bill and I don't have any where to go out to.

Wonder how some folks live, must be hell where you come from, if it's better here on $500 US a month.

Jim

<deleted>, whats happened to this forum after the latest update.

Anyway as I was trying to say.

They tell me Somalia is nice this time of year.

I also had a little bird tell me most of the cash strapped Brits will head to Mali once the frogs have cleared the insurgents.

Watch this space.

Believe Somalia has some very nice beaches, land and houses prices are low. Locals are not so friendly and there will be a big lack of beer.

Could handle unfriendly locals, but no booze that kills the idea. jim

[rgs2001uk]

<deleted>, whats happened to this forum after the latest update.

Anyway as I was trying to say.

They tell me Somalia is nice this time of year.

I also had a little bird tell me most of the cash strapped Brits will head to Mali once the frogs have cleared the insurgents.

Watch this space.

Believe Somalia has some very nice beaches, land and houses prices are low. Locals are not so friendly and there will be a big lack of beer.

Could handle unfriendly locals, but no booze that kills the idea. jim

Sounds just like Issan to me Jim, a lack of beer unless you are paying.

[jamescollister]

<deleted>, whats happened to this forum after the latest update.

Anyway as I was trying to say.

They tell me Somalia is nice this time of year.

I also had a little bird tell me most of the cash strapped Brits will head to Mali once the frogs have cleared the insurgents.

Watch this space.

Believe Somalia has some very nice beaches, land and houses prices are low. Locals are not so friendly and there will be a big lack of beer.

Could handle unfriendly locals, but no booze that kills the idea. jim

Sounds just like Issan to me Jim, a lack of beer unless you are paying.

Think they are Muslims. no alcohol. No country can prosper, if doesn't have booze. Why do you think they are happy to blow them selves up, no sex or booze.

Not much else I want, except food to keep me going, so I can have sex and beer. Jim

[transam]

They have some good deals on second hand ships of all designs, some with enough oil on board to last two centuries, many come with a complete crew for silly money. Sooooooooo, come on down and float one away.

[jamescollister]

They have some good deals on second hand ships of all designs, some with enough oil on board to last two centuries, many come with a complete crew for silly money. Sooooooooo, come on down and float one away.

If they pay, then I would be on my way. Jim

[jamescollister]

As a PS on beer and sex, I'm a married man. 2 kids, I get beer only. Jim

[rsokolowski]

Jim

You are a straight shooter no doubt. Your candour is easy gleaned from your posts...and appreciated.

But, with respect, and with the exception of viewing new scenery, I find no (social interaction) joy whatsoever from visiting rural Isaan villages.

They are mostly filled with aged, illiterate, and inumerate folks who are constantly on the take. These people spend the bulk of their time gossiping about petty issues, picking their noses, spitting, drinking, and gambling. The remaining village denizens comprise of the snotty nosed toddlers left behind in the care of the drunken grandparents because the fathers have cleared out to avoid any parental burdens, and the mothers are off selling themselves in Patts, Phuket or GrungThep.

Its hot, dirty, dusty...boring...and uncomfortable...and absolutely inevitable that you will be treated as a cash cow.

Pray tell, what is the attraction of being exposed to headlice and tuberculosis?

You have not been to the Isaan that I know. Given your arrogant attitude towards rural Thailand it is probably better for you to stay away.

[rsokolowski]

<deleted>, whats happened to this forum after the latest update.

Anyway as I was trying to say.

They tell me Somalia is nice this time of year.

I also had a little bird tell me most of the cash strapped Brits will head to Mali once the frogs have cleared the insurgents.

Watch this space.

Believe Somalia has some very nice beaches, land and houses prices are low. Locals are not so friendly and there will be a big lack of beer.

Could handle unfriendly locals, but no booze that kills the idea. jim

Sounds just like Issan to me Jim, a lack of beer unless you are paying.

Can you let me know where this mythical place is located that the beer is free? I want to move there! I have never been to a place where I don't have to buy the vast majority of my own beer. However, I have been to places where alcohol is not readily available.

[rsokolowski]

As a PS on beer and sex, I'm a married man. 2 kids, I get beer only. Jim

James,

I am not sure that I believe that you only get one of the above.

Roy