American Accused Of Unlawful Encounter With 13 Year Old Girl On Pattaya Beach

[ALFREDO]

in most cases the ones sexually involved with a minor are aware of it, as in not too many countries police would allow an under age to walk the red light zones at 4am

Not to speak from all the often very small, flower and Chewing gum girls and boys who run until the wee hours in Patongs Bangla Road, Pattaya and Bangkoks lower Sukhumvit area ect!

They don't count, they're typically not Thais.

So everybody can do with them what he wants? They are, "Outlaws"? Pedophile, can use them for their pleasure without have to fear prosecution?

You sure about that!

At least in Cambodia I hear from NGOs Organizations who only waiting that somebody get involved with the very young folk.

And in Patongs Bangla, they just, some weeks ago, rescued a Vietnamese? girl from the "Bad people" who had to sale for a living things night by night!

[maprao]

Monitoring? I think it means they sent her out to catch a farang out ...why not intervene at the beach and explain that they were "monitoring" her and that she was just 13? Better if they cared about her, surely?

If you read today's

Thairatth www.thairath.co.th/content/region/160165 use google to translate if you can't read it.

This story details how a 25 year old girl was drunk on the beach, Raped by a Thai man left on a deck chair, Then another passerby (foreigner) saw her and she was raped again before a Thai man came to her rescue.

Where were all the monitors and police???? The same conscientious individuals who caught this guy breaking the law.

Edited January 30, 2013 by maprao

[FDog]

in most cases the ones sexually involved with a minor are aware of it, as in not too many countries police would allow an under age to walk the red light zones at 4am

Not to speak from all the often very small, flower and Chewing gum girls and boys who run until the wee hours in Patongs Bangla Road, Pattaya and Bangkoks lower Sukhumvit area ect!

They don't count, they're typically not Thais.

So everybody can do with them what he wants? They are, "Outlaws"? Pedophile, can use them for their pleasure without have to fear prosecution?

You sure about that!

At least in Cambodia I hear from NGOs Organizations who only waiting that somebody get involved with the very young folk.

And in Patongs Bangla, they just, some weeks ago, rescued a Vietnamese? girl from the "Bad people" who had to sale for a living things night by night!

And you are sure the 13 year old, when asked, would have said she was 13 thus losing another punter. Get real, any reasonable person would think she told the guy she was of age just so she could get paid for the night.

Underage girls out on the game are NOT going to tell you they are underage as that would seriously deplete their earning capacity.

[ALFREDO]

And you are sure the 13 year old, when asked, would have said she was 13 thus losing another punter. Get real, any reasonable person would think she told the guy she was of age just so she could get paid for the night.

Underage girls out on the game are NOT going to tell you they are underage as that would seriously deplete their earning capacity.

You sure you quoted the right postings?

Please read again and check again. Slowly and carefully. Thanks.

Edited January 30, 2013 by ALFREDO

[spidermike007]

After the parents charged officially Mr. Rosenthal, the police report will mention the amount of their "moral" claim for the scandal...

If he pays - due to the media, a huge sum - the charges in Thailand will be dropped.

Idem dito for the US. He will still remain suspect...in the US.

By the way, he's from Chicago...

She accepted money = prostitution (no rape)

Now, if you want to send the guy 10 years in jail in the US, what is your defenition of "obscenity for personal gratification" during the 20 minutes in the hotel ?

You are absolutely incorrect. The US government could not give a rats ass what the Thai government. Read your law. He is subject to US law, and they will pursue him. The only way he can get away with this, is if the Thai authorities do not alert the American authorities. That is very unlikely. In the case of a 16, or 17 year old maybe, but a 13 year old will be an absolute conviction, and he will serve at least 10 years. Case closed. No evidence required, other than the fact that he was caught red handed.

For starters in America police will not allow a 13 year old wonder the streets in prostitute zones.

They will also not allow a 13 year old to go into the room with a paying customer, nor will they monitor a 13 year old.

So lets stop with this nonsense what would happened in other country.

Again he did not go looking for underage girl outside the school or playground, or candy shop or games arcade or movies.

He was in a well known zone for prostitutes at 4 am, 4 am is not the time for underage girls to be anywhere in public without parents.

IF this happened in US, Police officers involved would be the first ones loosing their jobs for allowing this to happen

My point was simply that as an American, he is subject to American law, for an act committed here in Thailand. That is the bottom line. And statutory rape does not mean rape. It means sex with a minor.

[BlackPuddingBertha]

If you read today's Thairatth www.thairath.co.th/content/region/160165 use google to translate if you can't read it.

This story details how a 25 year old girl was drunk on the beach, Raped by a Thai man left on a deck chair, Then another passerby (foreigner) saw her and she was raped again before a Thai man came to her rescue.

Where were all the monitors and police???? The same conscientious individuals who caught this guy breaking the law.

Indeed. Whilst this underage hooker story may not be all sweetness and light, there are a million far worse things that happen every single day, many of them in Pattaya. The witch hunting brigade dont seem to care much about that though.

[DiNiro]

So, picking up a hooker, at 4A.M., that lurks in the shadows, that lies about her age make a person a pedophile?

I don't think so.

[BOBBYTIN]

it would be cheaper to pay the so called victim than to get a lawyer and end up in a 5 year court battle

Being as he is a diving instructor im guessing he won't have millions of baht sloshing around for when the unexpected happens. But you never know.

Someone also mentioned earlier in this thread that they thought he has a thai wife. What he really needed was a few friends with him to stop him getting into this mess.....

she left him 3 months ago

[geriatrickid]

A Paedophile is a paedophile is a paedophile!

People trying to make excuses for this behaviour because she probably approached him, and she lied about her age and he may not have known her true age are pathetic.

If you are not a paedophile you do not proposition a girl without ensuring she is of legal age especially when the majority of asian girls look younger than what they are.

If you are not sure of her age, but you are certain you are not a paedophile, then you walk away.

Nice sentiment. Unfortunately, that is not the reality in Thailand. The bars of patong are filled with underage workers. They are often given fake id cards. In this case, it has been pointed out that the facts have not been established. However, it is reported that the man did ask about the girl's age and was told 19. If he was a moron or inebriated, he may not have had the capacity to verify her id card. Not an excuse to avoid the law, but it at least demonstrates that he was attentive to the age requirement. There is no evidence to suggest the man was a pedo save for being found with the girl under suspicious circumstances.

[Thorgal]

After the parents charged officially Mr. Rosenthal, the police report will mention the amount of their "moral" claim for the scandal...

If he pays - due to the media, a huge sum - the charges in Thailand will be dropped.

Idem dito for the US. He will still remain suspect...in the US.

By the way, he's from Chicago...

She accepted money = prostitution (no rape)

Now, if you want to send the guy 10 years in jail in the US, what is your defenition of "obscenity for personal gratification" during the 20 minutes in the hotel ?

You are absolutely incorrect. The US government could not give a rats ass what the Thai government. Read your law. He is subject to US law, and they will pursue him. The only way he can get away with this, is if the Thai authorities do not alert the American authorities. That is very unlikely. In the case of a 16, or 17 year old maybe, but a 13 year old will be an absolute conviction, and he will serve at least 10 years. Case closed. No evidence required, other than the fact that he was caught red handed.

For starters in America police will not allow a 13 year old wonder the streets in prostitute zones.

They will also not allow a 13 year old to go into the room with a paying customer, nor will they monitor a 13 year old.

So lets stop with this nonsense what would happened in other country.

Again he did not go looking for underage girl outside the school or playground, or candy shop or games arcade or movies.

He was in a well known zone for prostitutes at 4 am, 4 am is not the time for underage girls to be anywhere in public without parents.

IF this happened in US, Police officers involved would be the first ones loosing their jobs for allowing this to happen

My point was simply that as an American, he is subject to American law, for an act committed here in Thailand. That is the bottom line. And statutory rape does not mean rape. It means sex with a minor.

Strange that so many posters want to send the American back to the States to be convicted and finish in jail for a long time.

So many people are 'well aware' about the US Protect Act of 2003 Law, but nobody can define the charges he will or he has to face. It' so typical...

Will he face a 3rd degree felony type C or not ?

If yes, on what will or can his defence be based back in the States ? Don't tell me it's a Thai police report or Court order/decision...

Can somebody define me the charges and his possible defence sources in the States ?

[wans]

she was being monitored by her pimp, pretty sure I saw this girl yesterday on the beach, same hat and age anyway, obviously on yaba, wonder how much the american ended up paying

[brewsterbudgen]

Very true. Although the chances of being busted when barfining a girl from a gogo and taking her back to a hotel which checks her (fake) ID are minimal to non-existent.

Says who?

Me. I'm happy to be corrected, but I'm not aware of any cases of this happening.

[jbrain]

she was being monitored by her pimp, pretty sure I saw this girl yesterday on the beach, same hat and age anyway, obviously on yaba, wonder how much the american ended up paying

Have there been any pictures of this girl released so far other then from her back side ?

Or did you recognise her from her hat only

[Jingthing]

she was being monitored by her pimp, pretty sure I saw this girl yesterday on the beach, same hat and age anyway, obviously on yaba, wonder how much the american ended up paying

Have there been any pictures of this girl released so far other then from her back side ?

Or did you recognise her from her hat only

Don't be talking about a child's backside. Someone may call in the authorities!

[Thorgal]

she was being monitored by her pimp, pretty sure I saw this girl yesterday on the beach, same hat and age anyway, obviously on yaba, wonder how much the american ended up paying

Have there been any pictures of this girl released so far other then from her back side ?

Or did you recognise her from her hat only

Don't be talking about a child's backside. Someone may call in the authorities!

For your information :

[rinteln]

What's all this over the top conservative language about. Your city has thousands of prostitutes running around and mass corruption. Your country obviously doesn't mind these activities so just tell it how it is.

As far as the guy is concerned. Lock him up, he is sick !!

Bit like the country whose flag you cheekily fly! Usual uniformed view of Thailand from a "perfect" nation.

Yes - the peado should be locked up before he molests another child.

Wow how one sentence can bring up so many issues.

What does "cheekily fly" mean in the context of this topic ?

Are you suggesting that if I want an opinion on this then I cannot show my flag because the UK isn't perfect ? Or that because the UK has problems that somehow negates my view or opinion that the reporting of this story was a bit over the top in its language.

"uninformed view"............I'm impressed how you have come to the conclusion that my view is uninformed about Thailand all by one comment on a style of journalism. wow, impressive !

Your not one of these people who think no one should have an opinion on something as long as their own country has problems are you ?

Edited January 31, 2013 by rinteln

[ARGUSEYE]

Hey, talking about Thai ID cards...

I haven't seen one for some time, but if somebody with a Thai wife/ Thai kids could give me a clue:

A) Is the date of birth written in western figures, like 12345, or the Thai figures ??

Is the date of birth written in the Bhuddist era, like 2535 for 1992 or what it was ??

I don't think I will ever come into the situation of checking any ID cards here, but you don't know nowadays....

It could keep me out of jail!

[rinteln]

Hey, talking about Thai ID cards...

I haven't seen one for some time, but if somebody with a Thai wife/ Thai kids could give me a clue:

A) Is the date of birth written in western figures, like 12345, or the Thai figures ??

Is the date of birth written in the Bhuddist era, like 2535 for 1992 or what it was ??

I don't think I will ever come into the situation of checking any ID cards here, but you don't know nowadays....

It could keep me out of jail!

Both Thai and Romanised for everything.

Edited January 31, 2013 by rinteln

[thaiman]

This is pure entrapment!

All of us who've lived in LOS and know what goes on here can see what is really going on.

The American guy was in the wrong place at the wrong time and unfortunately has fallen prey to the Thais. Another one bites the dust!

[Jingthing]

This is pure entrapment!

All of us who've lived in LOS and know what goes on here can see what is really going on.

The American guy was in the wrong place at the wrong time and unfortunately has fallen prey to the Thais. Another one bites the dust!

It appears to be so ...

[TommoPhysicist]

I always thought a pedophile deliberately sought out children to have sex with.

As opposed to a person who had sex with someone underage, through accident or her lying about her age.

Also underage and a child are not the same thing.

(Getting married to a 13YO with a judges permission in Thailand is perfectly legal)

And before you all jump me, let me just say I wouldn't consider having sex with anyone under 30YO!

Edited January 31, 2013 by TommoPhysicist

[rinteln]

I always thought a pedophile deliberately sought out children to have sex with.

As opposed to a person who had sex with someone underage, through accident or her lying about her age.

Also underage and a child are not the same thing.

(Getting married to a 13YO with a judges permission in Thailand is perfectly legal)

And before you all jump me, let me just say I wouldn't consider having sex with anyone under 30YO!

I think there are only 2 options or conclusions with this situation. He was either a full on pedophile and the police have done some good work or he is the unluckiest guy in the world who was just a bit too drunk and didn't check properly.

The 2nd option happens everyday in Pattaya so if these police are real police then they will attend to the general problem and not just be happy whenever they have got their prize every now and again. I suspect not because as we all know Pattaya police don't police on morals, law and ethics they police on whatever can get them some money and in a quick fashion. I would guess a large pay off is looming in amongst this situation.

You may even see the same girl walking down the street with her new I phone 5 soon.

Edited January 31, 2013 by rinteln

[Exsexyman]

This is pure entrapment!

All of us who've lived in LOS and know what goes on here can see what is really going on.

The American guy was in the wrong place at the wrong time and unfortunately has fallen prey to the Thais. Another one bites the dust!

Entrapment or not he is a middle aged man who was caught naked in bed with a 13 year old child. That's the bottom line. Very sad to see so many on here trying to defend and excuse this. " There but for the grace of God go I" etc etc. Speaks volumes about them. It would appear that for many on here the only problem they have with sex with a child would be getting caught.

[Jingthing]

...

It would appear that for many on here the only problem they have with sex with a child would be getting caught.

How very predictable. Some of us don't like to see a foreigner in a strange land (most of us) who most likely just made a stupid mistake about a person's age one night have his entire life ruined. So you accuse anyone like that of being either a pedo sympathizer or a pedo themselves. Basically, you're saying we can't even TALK about these kinds of issues without the guilt and accusations being smeared all about willy nilly. Edited January 31, 2013 by Jingthing

[rinteln]

Now it seems logical to me that if you wanted to catch a known pedophile then you would not need to pick someone who looks older than what they are and either doesn't have or refuses to give her ID card. Surely a pedophile would just literally go for a 13 year old regardless because he is a pedophile.

It just seems they have set up a situation that many people could fall into and would not be 100% clear to some people. Saying that farangs shouldnt be roaming around the beach at 4am is not an argument for me because at the end of the day Pattaya and Thailand either accept and endorse prostitution or they dont. And they clearly do so this means you will get farangs walking around at random times. The timing and location doesnt convict him of anything.

If he is a known pedophile or if he knew she was underage then 100% lock him up but I just smell a rat that's all.

Edited January 31, 2013 by rinteln

[lemoncake]

Hey, talking about Thai ID cards...

I haven't seen one for some time, but if somebody with a Thai wife/ Thai kids could give me a clue:

A) Is the date of birth written in western figures, like 12345, or the Thai figures ??

Is the date of birth written in the Bhuddist era, like 2535 for 1992 or what it was ??

I don't think I will ever come into the situation of checking any ID cards here, but you don't know nowadays....

It could keep me out of jail!

Both Thai and Romanised for everything.

incorrect, not older id cards, only the new ones.

the old ones have ONLY thai calendar years

[jbrain]

Hey, talking about Thai ID cards...

I haven't seen one for some time, but if somebody with a Thai wife/ Thai kids could give me a clue:

A) Is the date of birth written in western figures, like 12345, or the Thai figures ??

Is the date of birth written in the Bhuddist era, like 2535 for 1992 or what it was ??

I don't think I will ever come into the situation of checking any ID cards here, but you don't know nowadays....

It could keep me out of jail!

Both Thai and Romanised for everything.

incorrect, not older id cards, only the new ones.

the old ones have ONLY thai calendar years

Since we know you like to argue about senseless things,

The " old " ID cards were issued to people who are now older than 18 years old, so no need to check if they are underage anymore.

[rinteln]

Hey, talking about Thai ID cards...

I haven't seen one for some time, but if somebody with a Thai wife/ Thai kids could give me a clue:

A) Is the date of birth written in western figures, like 12345, or the Thai figures ??

Is the date of birth written in the Bhuddist era, like 2535 for 1992 or what it was ??

I don't think I will ever come into the situation of checking any ID cards here, but you don't know nowadays....

It could keep me out of jail!

Both Thai and Romanised for everything.

incorrect, not older id cards, only the new ones.

the old ones have ONLY thai calendar years

Cheap blow sorry. Yes technically you correct but they are very old and not in much circulation. I answered the question with the assumption is was referring to what most people use now, especially in this town and it is the Pattaya forum. Nice try though !

Edited January 31, 2013 by rinteln

[TommoPhysicist]

Cheap blow sorry. Yes technically you correct but they are very old and not in much circulation. I answered the question with the assumption is was referring to what most people use now, especially in this town.

It's only since last year that those under 16 could get ID cards.

[rinteln]

Cheap blow sorry. Yes technically you correct but they are very old and not in much circulation. I answered the question with the assumption is was referring to what most people use now, especially in this town.

It's only since last year that those under 16 could get ID cards.

I will have to concede to your knowledge on that but my point is my answer was relevant to the masses.

Edited January 31, 2013 by rinteln