Un: Israel Settlement Activity Violates Law

[Jingthing]

Let's split the difference. The wall/fence/whatever is not one thing but from the Israeli public opinion point of view, the fact that there is direct relation between it's construction and the end of suicide bombers makes it quite popular. In the press outside the USA we mostly hear about the negative impact on Palestinians. That coverage is needed of course, but both sides stories have merit. Do you think the wall would have been built if there hadn't been years of suicide attacks resulting in the murders of hundreds of mostly civilian Israelis? If you say yes, how could you really KNOW that?

Yes there is lots of cause and effect going on there. Predictably someone is going to say, they had to do the suicide bombings that was their only viable weapon. So if you do go there, didn't the Israelis HAVE to defend themselves from it? Endless loop. Optimists are thin on the ground.

I, and I'm sure most, would have no objection to a wall built on the 1967 borders.

Our objection is that they have intruded it into Palestinian land to de facto remove Palestinians from their legally owned land.

The English/ Irish conflict lasted over 600 years. Fancy the Israel/ Palestinian conflict being over more quickly without Israel withdrawing from illegal occupation of Palestine? They can build a wall a thousand feet high for all I care, but they have to stop occupying Palestine.

There's the rub, isn't it? What is Palestine? To perhaps the majority of Palestinians, it includes ALL of the land now called Israel.

[thaibeachlovers]

Huckabee is an extremely right wing Christian fundamentalist American politician. Right wing Americans, especially many Christian fundamentalists who feel directed to fanatical support for Israel due to their interpretation of scripture "end times" are generally supportive of more right wing Israeli government policies such as illegal settlements. More liberal American politicians and public, including American Jews who are mostly liberal and mostly in a different party than people like Huckabee, are much less likely to be supportive of right wing Israeli policies such as illegal settlements. You present a quote from Huckabee as if that is representative of American Jews and it is simply not even close to the actual truth. Americans Jews OVERWHELMINGLY supported Obama who has been critical of illegal Israeli settlements.

It's so easy to simply things that are actually quite more complicated by taking a quote from an EXTREMIST out of context of the larger picture. I would be the first to agree that Obama's opposition to illegal Israeli settlements has not had strong teeth or consequences to it, but that's another matter.

Huckabee's future quotes about the settlements are totally predictable. He is a right wing fundamentalist ideologue and he will continue to voice strong support for the settlements.

Agreed about Huckabee being an extremist. I sometimes watch his show, but usually turn it off as so unpalatably anti Palestinian.

[Pakboong]

...

Like the idea of "Jewish Only" settlements, I personally have no problem with it but in order to have no problem with it, you would think one must be prepared for a "No Jews allowed" policy.

Again, I have no idea what you are really talking about with your unusual code.

Israel contains TWENTY PERCENT Arab population. These are Israeli citizens who are Arabs. Yes those offensive settlements are Jewish only and that is offensive but the settlements themselves are offensive so what would you expect? However, consider this in the context of statements from authoritative Palestinians that in a Palestinian state not even ONE Jew will be allowed to be a citizen.

BTW, Huckabee is a public figure and media personality, but he HOLDS NO OFFICE. So his opinion is just the voice of a private American citizen, not a representative of the American government.

There are no Arabs in the settlements. Pretty much everybody knows they are Jews only.

Huckabee, is being allowed by Israeli media to have a say which is what it is. I don't care what he says. I was just making a point about the Difference between Kurdistan and Kurds in their version of the Diaspora. Folks like Huckabee don't help, they simply add to the confusion.

[thaibeachlovers]

Let's split the difference. The wall/fence/whatever is not one thing but from the Israeli public opinion point of view, the fact that there is direct relation between it's construction and the end of suicide bombers makes it quite popular. In the press outside the USA we mostly hear about the negative impact on Palestinians. That coverage is needed of course, but both sides stories have merit. Do you think the wall would have been built if there hadn't been years of suicide attacks resulting in the murders of hundreds of mostly civilian Israelis? If you say yes, how could you really KNOW that?

Yes there is lots of cause and effect going on there. Predictably someone is going to say, they had to do the suicide bombings that was their only viable weapon. So if you do go there, didn't the Israelis HAVE to defend themselves from it? Endless loop. Optimists are thin on the ground.

I, and I'm sure most, would have no objection to a wall built on the 1967 borders.

Our objection is that they have intruded it into Palestinian land to de facto remove Palestinians from their legally owned land.

The English/ Irish conflict lasted over 600 years. Fancy the Israel/ Palestinian conflict being over more quickly without Israel withdrawing from illegal occupation of Palestine? They can build a wall a thousand feet high for all I care, but they have to stop occupying Palestine.

There's the rub, isn't it? What is Palestine? To perhaps the majority of Palestinians, it includes ALL of the land now called Israel.

I think that whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation ( I don't agree that Israel should have been approved by the UN, but it's too late to turn back that clock ) the only acceptable long term solution is for Israel to build a big wall along the 67 border and withdraw behind it. If the Palestinians then attack Israel, I would agree that they were in the wrong, regardless of history.

[Jingthing]

There are no Arabs in the settlements. Pretty much everybody knows they are Jews only.

Huckabee, is being allowed by Israeli media to have a say which is what it is. I don't care what he says. I was just making a point about the Difference between Kurdistan and Kurds in their version of the Diaspora. Folks like Huckabee don't help, they simply add to the confusion.

Yes that is true and I already said that. No Arabs/Palestinians in those settlements. BUT, there ARE 20 percent Arabs citizens of Israel living in the non-settlement part of more official Israeli borders. You are acting like I disagree with you about the settlements being Jewish and I never did. Why suggest a disagreement that doesn't exist?

Israelis pander to American right wing Christian fundamentalists like Huckabee not because they love them, THEY DO NOT, but because Israel feels it needs all the friends it can get because it doesn't have very many in the world. Maybe that's cynical but it's understandable. The reason Israelis can't really love Christian end times fundamentalists is because the core of their ideology is ultimately anti-Jewish (they need Israel to exist for their Christian vision to be fulfilled, not for Jews, but for Christians). But its kind of a politics makes strange bedfellows kind of thing.

Edited February 12, 2013 by Jingthing

[simple1]

JT: What is your forecast of the outcome of Obama's pending meetings in Israel?

Don't know if you seen the commentary below, but a quote from the article "Israel is walking blindly towards isolation and censure in the eyes of the world,” said one of the most senior Western envoys in Jerusalem.

Read more: http://forward.com/articles/170637/israel-sleepwalking-into-crisis-over-jewish-settle/?p=all#ixzz2KfacRAZg

[Jingthing]

I think that whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation ( I don't agree that Israel should have been approved by the UN, but it's too late to turn back that clock ) the only acceptable long term solution is for Israel to build a big wall along the 67 border and withdraw behind it. If the Palestinians then attack Israel, I would agree that they were in the wrong, regardless of history.

There is a fair amount of support in Israel for accepting at least to start with those borders and that faction did better than expected in the last Israeli election. But not really so well to make a big difference. Your 67 borders wall idea has not really caught on as yet.

[Pakboong]

There are no Arabs in the settlements. Pretty much everybody knows they are Jews only.

Huckabee, is being allowed by Israeli media to have a say which is what it is. I don't care what he says. I was just making a point about the Difference between Kurdistan and Kurds in their version of the Diaspora. Folks like Huckabee don't help, they simply add to the confusion.

Yes that is true and I already said that. No Arabs/Palestinians in those settlements. BUT, there ARE 20 percent Arabs citizens of Israel living in the non-settlement part of more official Israeli borders. You are acting like I disagree with you about the settlements being Jewish and I never did. Why suggest a disagreement that doesn't exist?

Israelis pander to American right wing Christian fundamentalists like Huckabee not because they love them, THEY DO NOT, but because Israel feels it needs all the friends it can get because it doesn't have very many in the world. Maybe that's cynical but it's understandable. The reason Israelis can't really love Christian end times fundamentalists is because the core of their ideology is ultimately anti-Jewish (they need Israel to exist for their Christian vision to be fulfilled, not for Jews, but for Christians). But its kind of a politics makes strange bedfellows kind of thing.

Sorry, I misread your post.

I really wasn't making a point about Huckabee, I think he is an idiot, I was merely pointing out in one of today's news article the practice of using "Israel" and "Jews" interchangebly when they are in fact separate and distinct.

Edited February 12, 2013 by Pakboong

[Exsexyman]

Huckabee is an extremely right wing Christian fundamentalist American politician. Right wing Americans, especially many Christian fundamentalists who feel directed to fanatical support for Israel due to their interpretation of scripture "end times" are generally supportive of more right wing Israeli government policies such as illegal settlements. More liberal American politicians and public, including American Jews who are mostly liberal and mostly in a different party than people like Huckabee, are much less likely to be supportive of right wing Israeli policies such as illegal settlements. You present a quote from Huckabee as if that is representative of American Jews and it is simply not even close to the actual truth. Americans Jews OVERWHELMINGLY supported Obama who has been critical of illegal Israeli settlements.

It's so easy to simply things that are actually quite more complicated by taking a quote from an EXTREMIST out of context of the larger picture. I would be the first to agree that Obama's opposition to illegal Israeli settlements has not had strong teeth or consequences to it, but that's another matter.

Huckabee's future quotes about the settlements are totally predictable. He is a right wing fundamentalist ideologue and he will continue to voice strong support for the settlements.

He's also a crap bass player!

[uptheos]

The territory that was held by Israel in Gaza was given up and without any agreements from the Palestinians some of the settlements in the West Bank were evacuated. This gave the Palestinians complete authority over their population in Gaza and offered an opportunity to prove that if territorial concessions were made by Israel, they (Palestinians) would change their thinking, be prepared to coexist with Israel and build a state of its own. The problem is that Israel was perhaps naive in thinking this and the actual deal that was done was exchanging territory for terror as Hamas came to power. The authorities in Palestine, did not take the opportunity to do anything for Gaza, like building the infrastructure in an effort to proceed towards statehood and the Gaza strip soon became nothing but total chaos as rival Palestinian factions vied for power. I think everyone (who wants to admit it) knows that terrorism from Gaza has continued constantly, without any action being taken and Israeli towns have a never ending shower of rockets that are fired from the area Israel withdrew from. There comes a time when enough is enough and if retaliation is to be effective, it has to be swift and it has to be hard. You cannot get any agreement with someone who wants to drive you into the sea, and how is it possible to talk or negotiate with someone who is sworn to your annihilation? Even the most ardent Israel bashers, must surely acknowledge that one simple fact.

Edited February 13, 2013 by uptheos

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies deleted. The topic is quite specific, please stick to it.

[Hedghog]

This topic will surely end in some member,in the sin bin.