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F1 2013

Mosha

By Mosha
in Sports, Hobbies & Activities

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rixalex Diamond Member

rixalex

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Perez 'should be punched in the face'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22675026

totster smile.png

You'd think Kimi might be a little more philosophical about it all considering what he did to Sutil in Monaco a few years ago. Granted though, he did apologise to Sutil. I wonder if Perez has gone round with a serving of humble pie yet.

It'd be a bloody big pie,

I think actually the majority of what he did on Sunday was very good, it was just a couple of slightly reckless moves that let him down, and that are now being used against him as if proof that all of his moves were bad. They weren't.

Kudos to Jenson, who was honest enough to accept that his team mate pulled off a great move to get past him.

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VocalNeal Star Member

VocalNeal

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...and then there is Perez ...but there will be others that think that is racing....

Any <deleted> can brake late and stick the nose of his car into a no existent space, that is hardly racing. Alonso is experienced so he gave him room and suffered. Kimi is also experienced and did what Alonso was probably thinking but didn't do, and put Perez into the wall.

Edited by VocalNeal
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rixalex Diamond Member

rixalex

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...and then there is Perez ...but there will be others that think that is racing....

Any <deleted> can brake late and stick the nose of his car into a no existent space, that is hardly racing. Alonso is experienced so he gave him room and suffered. Kimi is also experienced and did what Alonso was probably thinking but didn't do, and put Perez into the wall.

Any <deleted> can brake late but not any <deleted> can brake late and yet still maintain control of the car sufficiently to make it around the corner. The art of doing just that is what racing is all about in my opinion, because it is that art that really requires a driver's skill and bravery.

Perez managed it very successfully against Button and Alonso, but got it wrong against Kimi. Fully understand Kimi being angry about it, but the problem is, racing is not a science, and when one driver decides to have a go at getting past another, there is always an element of risk involved. When overtaking moves go wrong, there should be consequences for the driver, if they were being reckless or dangerous, i agree with that, but we also have to be mindful that we want to encourage drivers to overtake as much as they can, and we don't want them living in fear of punishment and vilification when things go wrong, because in racing things will always go wrong some of the time. If every move had to be completely clean and clear cut for a driver to make it, we might as well just be done with it and get them to fit indicators on the cars, and get all the drivers practiced in the art of look, signal, manoeuvre. That would really spice things up.

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wackysleet Gold Member

wackysleet

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totster.

You lasted 40 laps, what a man, I went out for a couple of beers around lap 15.

I read a report that the marshal dropped his two way radio, bent down to pick it up and got run over by the recovery truck if that is the case then how freaky is that.

David.

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wackysleet Gold Member

wackysleet

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I think it was to be expected that Mark would retire from F1 at the end of this season as there has been a lot of speculation over Kimi taking his seat which now seems a certainty with Seb already saying he would have no problems teaming up with the Fin.

I have to say that Mark Webber has never been a favourite of mine, he just seems to whinge a lot for my liking and it must stick in his throat knowing that he's continually out driven by his team mate but having said that the best of luck to the man in sports car racing for Porsch and I hope he achieves success.

David.

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wackysleet Gold Member

wackysleet

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So what do we think of the debacle {in my opinion} of the quite clear infraction of the rules perpetrated by Mercedes and being allowed to determine their own punishment, or should that read; reward.

There is a difference of course when a new spec is introduced and there is a subsequent ban on some of the parts after a few races, I feel that the interpretation of the rules are subjective and frequently need to be refined as anomalies arise from the original intent but the rules on testing clearly state, no current year car, car must be at least two yrs old and only test drivers allowed to test.

Ross Brawn says he's happy they did nothing wrong and that Mercedes can now move on but then I never heard him censor M, Shumacher for his cheating ways at Ferrari so perhaps this attitude is "win at any cost" and the end justifies the means.

Cannot wait to read the Mercedes apologists reasoning that they did nothing wrong and by the way, when Ferrari tested not so long ago the car was two yrs old and had their test driver at the wheel.

David.

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b19bry Silver Member

b19bry

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Posted (edited)

So what do we think of the debacle {in my opinion} of the quite clear infraction of the rules perpetrated by Mercedes and being allowed to determine their own punishment, or should that read; reward.

There is a difference of course when a new spec is introduced and there is a subsequent ban on some of the parts after a few races, I feel that the interpretation of the rules are subjective and frequently need to be refined as anomalies arise from the original intent but the rules on testing clearly state, no current year car, car must be at least two yrs old and only test drivers allowed to test.

Ross Brawn says he's happy they did nothing wrong and that Mercedes can now move on but then I never heard him censor M, Shumacher for his cheating ways at Ferrari so perhaps this attitude is "win at any cost" and the end justifies the means.

Cannot wait to read the Mercedes apologists reasoning that they did nothing wrong and by the way, when Ferrari tested not so long ago the car was two yrs old and had their test driver at the wheel.

David.

It's an absolute disgrace that Mercedes should be allowed to gain the advantage that they clearly showed at the Silverstone race and go unpunished. But hey, cheating and Brawn in F1 is not new, witness the 1994 season ! Benetton got away with probably the most illegal car to win the championship then too !

Edited by b19bry
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b19bry Silver Member

b19bry

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I think it was to be expected that Mark would retire from F1 at the end of this season as there has been a lot of speculation over Kimi taking his seat which now seems a certainty with Seb already saying he would have no problems teaming up with the Fin.

I have to say that Mark Webber has never been a favourite of mine, he just seems to whinge a lot for my liking and it must stick in his throat knowing that he's continually out driven by his team mate but having said that the best of luck to the man in sports car racing for Porsch and I hope he achieves success.

David.

As a Kimi fan I'd hate to see him go to Red Bull and play second fiddle to Vettel who is undoubtedly the favoured one in the team. Much prefer Ricciardo takes the seat early in his career and may have a great future ?

As for Mark, he arrived on the scene and showed great promise (finished 5th first time out) and always beat his teammates until Vettel. I reckon unlucky/unwise in team choices and never realised his potential in F1.

One of the good guys and good luck to him with Porsche.

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Mosha Diamond Member

Mosha

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So what do we think of the debacle {in my opinion} of the quite clear infraction of the rules perpetrated by Mercedes and being allowed to determine their own punishment, or should that read; reward.

There is a difference of course when a new spec is introduced and there is a subsequent ban on some of the parts after a few races, I feel that the interpretation of the rules are subjective and frequently need to be refined as anomalies arise from the original intent but the rules on testing clearly state, no current year car, car must be at least two yrs old and only test drivers allowed to test.

Ross Brawn says he's happy they did nothing wrong and that Mercedes can now move on but then I never heard him censor M, Shumacher for his cheating ways at Ferrari so perhaps this attitude is "win at any cost" and the end justifies the means.

Cannot wait to read the Mercedes apologists reasoning that they did nothing wrong and by the way, when Ferrari tested not so long ago the car was two yrs old and had their test driver at the wheel.

David.

It's an absolute disgrace that Mercedes should be allowed to gain the advantage that they clearly showed at the Silverstone race and go unpunished. But hey, cheating and Brawn in F1 is not new, witness the 1994 season ! Benetton got away with probably the most illegal car to win the championship then too !

The disgrace will be, if it turns out, the changes Pirelli wanted to make. Could have prevented those tyres exploding, but 3 or 4 teams blocked it.

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ignis Ruby Member

ignis

Posted
Posted (edited)

So what do we think of the debacle {in my opinion} of the quite clear infraction of the rules perpetrated by Mercedes and being allowed to determine their own punishment, or should that read; reward.

There is a difference of course when a new spec is introduced and there is a subsequent ban on some of the parts after a few races, I feel that the interpretation of the rules are subjective and frequently need to be refined as anomalies arise from the original intent but the rules on testing clearly state, no current year car, car must be at least two yrs old and only test drivers allowed to test.

Ross Brawn says he's happy they did nothing wrong and that Mercedes can now move on but then I never heard him censor M, Shumacher for his cheating ways at Ferrari so perhaps this attitude is "win at any cost" and the end justifies the means.

Cannot wait to read the Mercedes apologists reasoning that they did nothing wrong and by the way, when Ferrari tested not so long ago the car was two yrs old and had their test driver at the wheel.

David.

It's an absolute disgrace that Mercedes should be allowed to gain the advantage that they clearly showed at the Silverstone race and go unpunished. But hey, cheating and Brawn in F1 is not new, witness the 1994 season ! Benetton got away with probably the most illegal car to win the championship then too !

Red Bull and Ferrari have proposed turning the upcoming Young Driver Test at Silverstone into a full blown tyre test with race drivers in order to help Pirelli find a solution to the issues it experienced at the British Grand Prix.

Edit: what will happen next year ? totally new car and engine size, Test can only be done by Pirelli on a car a few years old ??

Edited by ignis
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wackysleet Gold Member

wackysleet

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I did read that Pirelli were using a new adhesive for their tyres for this race and possibly that was the reason for the subsequent failures, after all, they were not having this problem prior to the race and they had reported on a tyre that had exploded in practice that it had a cut in the sidewall and were going to inspect the track. Red Bull advised Mark that the tyre failures were happening on turn 4/5 ? so perhaps there was something sharp that was causing the damage on the corners plus as Mosha pointed out they were all nearside rears.

Excellent result for Nico and Mark. Two wins under his belt so far and I hope he get's many more. Not bad for a number two driver, to coin a well used phrase.

b19bry. I also think Kimi is a top driver but even though Seb is clearly the number one driver over Mark I really think that's because of his results and that would and should determine driver positions and I don't think anyone can argue that Seb has not delivered the goods for Red Bull.

David.

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b19bry Silver Member

b19bry

Posted
Posted

So what do we think of the debacle {in my opinion} of the quite clear infraction of the rules perpetrated by Mercedes and being allowed to determine their own punishment, or should that read; reward.

There is a difference of course when a new spec is introduced and there is a subsequent ban on some of the parts after a few races, I feel that the interpretation of the rules are subjective and frequently need to be refined as anomalies arise from the original intent but the rules on testing clearly state, no current year car, car must be at least two yrs old and only test drivers allowed to test.

Ross Brawn says he's happy they did nothing wrong and that Mercedes can now move on but then I never heard him censor M, Shumacher for his cheating ways at Ferrari so perhaps this attitude is "win at any cost" and the end justifies the means.

Cannot wait to read the Mercedes apologists reasoning that they did nothing wrong and by the way, when Ferrari tested not so long ago the car was two yrs old and had their test driver at the wheel.

David.

It's an absolute disgrace that Mercedes should be allowed to gain the advantage that they clearly showed at the Silverstone race and go unpunished. But hey, cheating and Brawn in F1 is not new, witness the 1994 season ! Benetton got away with probably the most illegal car to win the championship then too !

The disgrace will be, if it turns out, the changes Pirelli wanted to make. Could have prevented those tyres exploding, but 3 or 4 teams blocked it.

I have no problem with tests being conducted in the open and to the rules. When a team runs their current car and race drivers it's against the rules. For them to instruct their drivers to wear black helmets to hide their identity clearly shows they knew what they were doing was wrong.

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ignis Ruby Member

ignis

Posted
Posted (edited)
When a team runs their current car and race drivers it's against the rules.

Maybe the rules need changing ?

It is like testing a USB 3 hard drive on a old PC with only USB 2... how can you tell if there is any improvement ?

Same as Race drivers and test drivers, anyway we hear so many times driver xzy driver is so smooth, or so and so driver is kind on there tyres, so will a test driver drive 100% the same as the Race driver in that car ? the answer is 90% NO,

So testing on a old car and without a Race Driver to me is a pointless .

EDIT: most importantly is there was a test with the new car and the Race drivers and still they got the tyres wrong, and the Race was almost Red Flagged as unsafe to continue.

Edited by ignis
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b19bry Silver Member

b19bry

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Posted
When a team runs their current car and race drivers it's against the rules.

Maybe the rules need changing ?

Well maybe they do, but if you break an existing regulation to gain an advantage you should not expect to go unpunished.

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