Can Social Security Insist We Have Direct Deposit Through Bangkok Bank If We Live Here?

[Lopburi99]

It appears the Manila SSA office is saying since I've lived here in Thailand continuously for at least 6 months (18 in my case) I need to make my address here my "official" residence for SSA purposes. Furthermore, I must then change my current monthly SSA benefit direct deposit in my stateside bank account to go through a special Bangkok Bank account here (for which no ATM card is allowed). This would result in each of us SSA recipients being required to appear in person at a BB branch office each month to transfer funds to an account which allows an ATM card (or withdraw the cash).

I am trying to determine if this is a firm requirement or whether the SSA just urges this for fraud prevention purposes. I'm going to be going to the U.S. in March for medical attention for 2-3 months... but I will be unable to access upcoming benefit funds since I am not in Thailand in person? I don't have enough cash reserves to let the money sit until I return here.

Anybody know something definitive? What if somebody is incapacitated? This is a big deal if true.

[RKASA]

I don't think it would be required - it is an option. If you have a US account you can still have direact deposit to that account and have a mailing address for other things over here. You need to fill out a form yearly and send it back within certain number of days to prove you are still alive. We have direact deposit in US and PO box here - not a problem with SSA.

I am thinking they may just be suggesting that if you do want deposit in Thailand you would have to do it that way, we were told the same things but as an option when we started SSA i.e. only certain accounts in overseas banks are allowed for direact deposit and must pick up funds in person.

We have recieved no notice of any change in policy in this reguard and continue to do it the other way via US account.

[Langsuan Man]

Yes, there is a new law requiring Social Security payments to be handled via direct deposit or debit card:

The U.S. Treasury will stop mailing paper checks to Social Security beneficiaries on March 1, 2013. All federal benefit recipients will then receive their payments by direct deposit to a bank or credit union account or loaded onto a Direct Express Debit MasterCard.

Source:http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/planning-to-retire/2012/03/16/social-security-to-go-paperless-in-2013

There is no requirement that it be sent to Bangkok Bank though. There is absolutely no reason you cannot have it deposited into any US bank account and then obtain the funds via a Debit Card or wire transfer

When the Social Security web site is back up (it is down as of this writing) go there and see what the "reporting" requirement is for a bank account located in the US.

http://www.ssa.gov/deposit/lowcost.htm

[lopburi3]

Did they actually say you must not receive direct deposit to US account? Suspect they just mean you can not receive checks when change is made to foreign address and for Thailand direct deposit would be as stated (but not that you can not still use US bank account) and are not even thinking you might maintain the US account. But who knows - I have had an insurance claim issue because of the time difference here (they could not figure out my submission being received before the time stamp on bill).

[craigt3365]

I just set this up for my Mom who lives here in Thailand now. We have a PO Box in the US for mail, but the physical address is here. SS direct deposits to her US bank account. Then I transfer funds via Bangkok Bank NYC when required.

[IMA_FARANG]

I have a U.S. bank account and when I retired my Social Security was made direct deposit there. I have since changed my address with the IRS to Bangkok and my mailing address with the Social Security has been changed to Bangkok.

I still maintain my U.S. bank account and I use that for my monthly Social Security direct deposit.....which I then have that U.S. bank send to my Bangkok Bank account monthly.

So it is NOT a requirement, it is an OPTION to have your monthly Social Security sent to your U.S. bank by direct deposit and then you can then make an arrangement with your U.S. bank to transfer your funds to Thailand monthly.

If you do chooose direct deposit from Social Security, it is a good choice to use Bangkok Bank as your Thai bank.

The reason is that Bangkok Bank has a New York bank branch .... and therefore your U.S. bank can do a ACH transfer directly to Bangkok Bank vis New York. The ACH transfer is cheaper and faster (in my case ACH transfer was started by my U.S bank this month on 4 February and I had the funds in my local Bangkok Bank on 6 February)

Another thing you need to talk to Social Security about is whether or not you want to use ther NEW Social Security direct deposit ATM/CASH card. This is a new program and supposed to be started in 2013. It will allow you to have a ATM/CASH card that alllows you to withdraw money form your bank direct deposit funds. This ATM card will ONLY work in the U.S. however.... but if you're in the U.S. it could mean easy access for you to cash from your Social Security,

This is a NEW progran, and the details are not set yet .... but if you're in the U.S. soon schedule a meeting with Social Security and ask about this new card.

For anyone retiring, and applying for Social Secirity this year they will now be rquired to select direct deposit to their bank or use the new ATM/cash card option. No more Social Security checks by the mail after 2014 .

Edited February 9, 2013 by IMA_FARANG

[aurelius]

Bangkok Bank has a contract with the US Social security office to be a paying bank, which includes on obligation on Bangkok Bank to check that beneficiaries are still alive, hence the requirement to pick up payments in person. There is also an obligation on the bank to pay back any funds which are inadvertently dispersed to accounts of people subsequently found to be deceased - hence the reluctance to waive the 'no electronic' access terms.

[Lopburi99]

I am relieved nobody has experienced any SSA insistence to use Bangkok Bank. Lopburi3, the guy I've been in touch with in Manila was speaking very directly and specifically: "Open an account at Bangkok Bank, fill out an SF-1199A, scan it, and email to me". When I asked him if I would have an ATM card which would work in the USA he grumbled and said something like...."talk to the bank about that".

I will fill out an SF-1199A but it will be for a stateside account. I had been working with this guy on a different matter and he was well aware of my upcoming trip and my concerns about accessing cash here or in the USA. He had the opportunity to be accommodating but chose to lead me in a direction not suitable for my situation. Don't ya just love bureaucrats...

Edited February 9, 2013 by Lopburi99

[wayned]

If you want to have your SSA payments directly deposited into and account in Thailand, you must open a special account with Bangkok Bank, no other bank is acceptable, and the account:

1. Must be in your name only

2. No ATM

3. No internet

4. No proxy withdrawals. All withdrawals must be made in person. I was in the hospital and had to have a letter from the hospital so that my wife could do a proxy withdrawal.

I have my SSA payments directly deposited in this type account as I have no address or bank account in the US. When I want to transfer money I go to a branch ,any branch, and transfer the money to an account where I have full electronic access. It would be a real PITA if I did a lot of travelling but those days are thankfully over. If you lived in Cambodia or Vietnam it is far more difficult and would have to have special payments set up so that you could collect the money in person at the US Embassy each month.

[lopburi3]

FYI: I have opened savings/checking bank accounts in the USA while using only Bangkok address if you want to give it a go. I currently use USAA with my Bangkok address.

[Gary A]

Thailand is my official residence. I use Citibank in the US because Social Security refused to direct deposit to a Thailand bank. I certainly have no love for Citibank but that is the only US bank I have found that will allow wire transfers via the Internet with no jumping through a lot hoops. Citibank cancelled my Citi credit card when I changed my address to Thailand. I still have a Bank of America credit card using my Thai address. I make a wire transfer once or twice a year.

[lopburi3]

Flame removed.

[wayned]

Thailand is my official residence. I use Citibank in the US because Social Security refused to direct deposit to a Thailand bank. I certainly have no love for Citibank but that is the only US bank I have found that will allow wire transfers via the Internet with no jumping through a lot hoops. Citibank cancelled my Citi credit card when I changed my address to Thailand. I still have a Bank of America credit card using my Thai address. I make a wire transfer once or twice a year.

SSA will deposit into a Thai Bank, but only to Bangkok Bank with the conditions as stated above.

[Gary A]

Thailand is my official residence. I use Citibank in the US because Social Security refused to direct deposit to a Thailand bank. I certainly have no love for Citibank but that is the only US bank I have found that will allow wire transfers via the Internet with no jumping through a lot hoops. Citibank cancelled my Citi credit card when I changed my address to Thailand. I still have a Bank of America credit card using my Thai address. I make a wire transfer once or twice a year.

SSA will deposit into a Thai Bank, but only to Bangkok Bank with the conditions as stated above.

For a number of years I used my Citibank ATM card here. I took out money as it was needed. No fees. Then they added a one percent fee. Not so bad. Now it is three percent plus the Thai 150 baht fee. I no longer use the card.

Citibank had a wire transfer fee for international transfers of $30 regardless of the amount of the transfer. They now have sneakily added another $15 for the intermediary bank. The intermediary bank is of course Citibank.

[Lopburi99]

Somebody mentioned State Farm Bank checking account and debit card. I checked it out, no foreign conversion fees at all, they even reimburse for foreign ATM charges up to $10/month. Even lower costs than my Ally Bank account (1%). No State Farm product purchase necessary to open a new account. I always use AEON so they won't even need to eat an ATM fee. Sounds like a plan.

[purushanti]

My 2 cents:

Attestation of address , i. e. that one is actually living in TH---another thread has pointed out that SSA's reqest for such is random. Finally, recently, I can agree, because I have gone about 18 months without receiving that request from them. Nevertheless, in my experience, they have been pretty regular with annual requests,---but, I think that is because I have moved around a lot In Thailand in the past. Once I notify them of change of address, a flag appears to be raised.

[purushanti]

I just set this up for my Mom who lives here in Thailand now. We have a PO Box in the US for mail, but the physical address is here. SS direct deposits to her US bank account. Then I transfer funds via Bangkok Bank NYC when required.

Craig,

I am unclear. Does the SSA send mail to the PO BOX in the USA, (important for 1099s, etc.)? I would think that they would insist on using your Thai physical address (or even a PO Box in TH), when the benefiary is living in TH.

For me, this is important. My chances of receiving all my mail in BKK were 100%, but not so at my physical Chiang Mai address. I would prefer to use my USA address for SSA communications, and have them opened by my son and forwarded.

[rfukata]

very interesting & resourceful topic - as we all (us citizens) get older and living abroad, this is real good information to share.

Thank you.

[chiang mai]

Citibank appears to handle all the SSA disbursements globally, I recieve my SSA payments in the UK in Sterling and these are deposited via Citibank Ireland. I had the options to recieve those payments here in Thailand in THB via Bangkok Bank or in Sterling in the UK (I am a Brit), interestingly they would not allow me to recieve payment in USD anywhere.

[Pib]

I have a U.S. bank account and when I retired my Social Security was made direct deposit there. I have since changed my address with the IRS to Bangkok and my mailing address with the Social Security has been changed to Bangkok.

I still maintain my U.S. bank account and I use that for my monthly Social Security direct deposit.....which I then have that U.S. bank send to my Bangkok Bank account monthly.

So it is NOT a requirement, it is an OPTION to have your monthly Social Security sent to your U.S. bank by direct deposit and then you can then make an arrangement with your U.S. bank to transfer your funds to Thailand monthly.

If you do chooose direct deposit from Social Security, it is a good choice to use Bangkok Bank as your Thai bank.

The reason is that Bangkok Bank has a New York bank branch .... and therefore your U.S. bank can do a ACH transfer directly to Bangkok Bank vis New York. The ACH transfer is cheaper and faster (in my case ACH transfer was started by my U.S bank this month on 4 February and I had the funds in my local Bangkok Bank on 6 February)

Another thing you need to talk to Social Security about is whether or not you want to use ther NEW Social Security direct deposit ATM/CASH card. This is a new program and supposed to be started in 2013. It will allow you to have a ATM/CASH card that alllows you to withdraw money form your bank direct deposit funds. This ATM card will ONLY work in the U.S. however.... but if you're in the U.S. it could mean easy access for you to cash from your Social Security,

This is a NEW progran, and the details are not set yet .... but if you're in the U.S. soon schedule a meeting with Social Security and ask about this new card.

For anyone retiring, and applying for Social Secirity this year they will now be rquired to select direct deposit to their bank or use the new ATM/cash card option. No more Social Security checks by the mail after 2014 .

See this link for more details on the Direct Express debit card program. When the card is used outside the U.S. there is a fee of $3 plus 3% of withdrawal. Link.

[lopburi3]

I just set this up for my Mom who lives here in Thailand now. We have a PO Box in the US for mail, but the physical address is here. SS direct deposits to her US bank account. Then I transfer funds via Bangkok Bank NYC when required.

Craig,

I am unclear. Does the SSA send mail to the PO BOX in the USA, (important for 1099s, etc.)? I would think that they would insist on using your Thai physical address (or even a PO Box in TH), when the benefiary is living in TH.

For me, this is important. My chances of receiving all my mail in BKK were 100%, but not so at my physical Chiang Mai address. I would prefer to use my USA address for SSA communications, and have them opened by my son and forwarded.

Can you download tax 1099? OPM offers this for those retired and I always use that for tax (although they also mail to my Thai address and have always later received (seems to do not mail until end of January at same time they put on web). There is no need for the physical forms if you file on-line anyhow.

[Ticketmaster]

OR, open a Schwab Bank checking account (with ATM card), direct deposit your SS there, and access the funds from anywhere in the world with the VISA debit card FREE, as Schwab reimburses 100% of any ATM fees.

Why pay all the ridiculous fees charge by Bangkok Bank?

[lopburi3]

What ridiculous fees? The fees are only a factor on very small sums as you can do a years supply of money using ACH for $10 and 500 baht and obtain the full in-country exchange rate.

[utalkin2me]

If you don't think Bangkok bank has any ridiculous fees, you've got some serious looking to do.

[craigt3365]

I just set this up for my Mom who lives here in Thailand now. We have a PO Box in the US for mail, but the physical address is here. SS direct deposits to her US bank account. Then I transfer funds via Bangkok Bank NYC when required.

Craig,

I am unclear. Does the SSA send mail to the PO BOX in the USA, (important for 1099s, etc.)? I would think that they would insist on using your Thai physical address (or even a PO Box in TH), when the benefiary is living in TH.

For me, this is important. My chances of receiving all my mail in BKK were 100%, but not so at my physical Chiang Mai address. I would prefer to use my USA address for SSA communications, and have them opened by my son and forwarded.

My brother lives in a rural area in New Mexico. He can only get a PO box. Home delivery is not an option for him. Not knowing the success of mail delivery here, I opted to use his address for my banks and SS, as well as my Mom's. Plus, it gives us an address in the US. Which is nice to have. He opens the mail and either scans it, or mails it on to us via priority mail.

SS has our physical address as Thailand. So they know mom is here, and we've had no problems so far. Mail is being sent to the PO box, and right now, her checks are being mailed there. I'm setup as a representative payee for mom, so had to setup a new bank account for such and couldn't get it organized quickly enough before I had to leave. But it seems to be working OK so far!

[Pib]

OR, open a Schwab Bank checking account (with ATM card), direct deposit your SS there, and access the funds from anywhere in the world with the VISA debit card FREE, as Schwab reimburses 100% of any ATM fees.

Why pay all the ridiculous fees charge by Bangkok Bank?

Agree in getting a Schwab debit card...I've got one...along with a State Farm debit card....figure having two no foreign transaction fee debit cards is better than one or none.

But ridiculous fees charged by Bangkok Bank? I don't agree with that regarding international/inbound funds transfers like we are talking about.

Bangkok Bank does charge a funds receipt/conversion fee of 0.25% (200 baht min, 500 baht max), but all the Thai banks charge this approx fee to receive funds sent via SWIFT/ACH/Wire/etc., unless a person uses a transfer option that ends up doing a charge back to your home country bank which is just the same (or higher) fee....I've seen plenty of ThaiVisa posts talking about this. I just looked at the U.S. SSA site a few minutes ago and it said the average SS pension payment for Dec 12 was $1,262 so lets use that amount in determining the monthly funds transfer cost, whether sent directly from the SSA or a person resends from their US bank account.

First example via SWIFT: assuming a $30 home country bank SWIFT sending fee (and that's probably on the low side of what the majority of banks charge for a SWIFT transfer...using SWIFT is just down-right pricey). OK, that $1,262 arrives the Bangkok Bank local branch via SWIFT and using 30 baht/USD that equates to a 37,860 baht. Apply the 0.25% receipt/conversion fee and you get 95 baht...the minimum fee amount kicks in and 200 baht ($6.68) is charged instead...so, 37,660 baht ends up getting posted to your account. Total transfer fees is $30 + $6.68 = $36.68.

Second example via ACH (where SSA sends direct or a person resends from their US bank): assuming a $0 US bank ACH sending fee (and banks that charge "zero" ACH sending fees are easy to find...Schwab Bank, State Farm Bank, USAA, and many, many more...should be the norm fee unless a person is with a really evil/fee hungry bank). OK, to use ACH the Bangkok Bank NY routing number must be used around with your Bangkok Bank local branch account number, but as that $1,262 flows through the NY branch a $5 fee is sliced off...so, $1,257 arrives which when converted at 30 baht/USD equals 37,710 baht. Apply the 0.25% receipt/conversion fee and you get 95 baht...once again the minimum 200 baht ($6.68) fee is charged instead....so, 37,510 baht ends up getting posted to your account....Total transfer fees is $0 (no home country sending bank or SSA ACH fee + 5.00 (Bangkok Bank NY flow-thru fee) + $6.68 (local branch fee) = $11.68.

I would much prefer to pay transfer fees of $11.68 per month to get my SS pension compared to $36.68. And unless a person has a Bangkok Bank account, which is the only Thai bank with an ACH routing number, they will be forced to use the pricey SWIFT method to transfer the funds.

Nope, not ridiculous fees at all, at least for inbound funds transfers. But for me, once I get old enough to draw SS I will have the SS pension sent to one of my US bank accounts and continue to use my no foreign transaction fee debt cards for my day-to-day Thailand living expenses which means money immediately in-hand and zero fees, but the ACH/SWIFT transfer method will still be available when BIG money is needed within a day or two.

From googling on this thread's topic, to include the SSA website, I haven't found anything that mandates a US citizen living in Thailand from having to send their SS pension to a Bangkok Bank Direct Deposit account if they have a US bank account it can be sent to instead...or use the new Direct Debit Express Card (but that would cost a person a little over 3% per withdrawal to use in Thailand/outside the US). But if wanting to send your SS pension to Bangkok Bank a Direct Deposit account will be required so Bangkok Bank can comply with the US law focus to help SS fraud from where the joint account holder (like a spouse) did not notify the SSA of the pensioner's death and knowingly or unknowingly (still illegal either way) continued to receive and spend the pension. Guess this type of fraud is easier outside the US because in the US a person's death gets reported in numerous ways where overseas, like a person living in the jungles of Thailand, it might not get reported to the SSA for quite a while. But if the money is in a Direct Deposit account which only pensioner can access in person, then when he dies and when news of his death finally gets back to the SSA (maybe years later), then all those money pension checks that continued to flow into that Bangkok Bank Direct Deposit account are still there and easily pulled back by the SSA with Bangkok Bank full cooperation.

[Pib]

This SSA weblink may help with this thread...a partial quote follows:

Beneficiaries outside the United States may receive their benefits via a form of electronic funds transfer (EFT) when they use:

• Direct deposit to a Financial Institution (FI) within the U.S.;
  
• Direct deposit in any International Direct Deposit (IDD) country, or
  
• Payment through correspondent banking.
  

And I also think the SSA weblink talking about Correspondent Banks may apply where the pension can be automatically retransmitted from a U.S bank to a foreign bank....and it also deals with a beneficiary residing in the U.S. who wants to deposit his benefits in a bank outside the U.S. See for details.

Quite a few other SSA policy links in above web links. But I expect there may be some fine print policy only your supporting social security office would know about/can further explain.

[craigt3365]

Excellent posts Khun Pib! Thanks so much for sharing. I've always wanted to do an analysis of costs involved for money transfers...but never did!!

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

We had it sent to us by in Thailand by check for a couple of years, it went to the US embassy and they forwarded it to us in Cha Am. Not a very efficient system. So for the next two years we had it sent to BKK bank in Cha Am but had to go into the bank every month to get it, not very convenient. So a couple of years ago we bought a townhouse in Idaho and have it sent to our credit union account (not to thrilled with banks). So our money is deposited in the US but our mailing address for SS is still Cha Am. We planned to spend the summers in Idaho and the winters here, unfortunately some bulging disk in my back are preventing us from going this year, surgery in BKK instead.

[Lopburi99]

Sorry to hear about your disk BTDT, hope all goes well. I have a sciatic nerve issue [driving me up a wall] which will probably need the knife too. But this raises a key point people using the Bangkok Bank direct deposit route should [re]consider: a possible surgery. Or lengthy illness or any other reason why personally going to the bank may be inconvenient at best. No way the bank would release your funds some other way from what we are learning. Never an issue with direct deposits into a stateside account.

Edited February 10, 2013 by Lopburi99