seajae Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 I know that I am supposed to accept the way of the thai people, my wife keeps telling me that I should but I still find it very hard to swallow it all. She manages a business and today she has to go out and work with a government assesor to mark out boundaries on land her company will be using, he has just phoned her and informed her that she needs to pay him 30,000 baht before he will go out to the land to do the job the government pays him to do and if she doesnt he will not allow it to go ahead. I still cannot accept that you have to pay people "extra" money to do their jobs, she also has to pay the local customs officer/s 100,000 baht a month so that they also do the job they are paid to do and not mysteriously lose the paperwork and stall everything. I am happy here but I find it hard to accept the all the payments to get things done, it is expected from everyone that you will make them if you want anything. When are we going to see someone stand up to all this fraudulent behaviour, having to pay bribes to all these people is pretty bad and is the reason this country is not moving forward. Taking this information to any authorities will simply get me into trouble, we need a government that will stop all the bribes and make it a level playing field, somehow I dont think it will ever happen. JUst my bitch for the day, it really sh*ts me this happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Semper Posted February 9, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted February 9, 2013 Look on the bright side. She is the one who does the work and pay the bribes, you on the other hand, can just relax at home with a few cold ones. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David48 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 You do know that the officer that your wife has to deal with pays to obtain his job, hence is simply reclaiming part of his initial outlay. Such is day to day life in Thailand ... . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayned Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Here we go again, when are you going to wake up and realize that corruption is a value of Thai society that is not going to change during yours or my lifetime. Corruption has been implanted and embedded in the culture for centuries. Most of the Thai people do not want a change since it doesn't affect the daily routines that have become part of their lives. A simple analogy: Why do UK legislators continue to wear those stupid wigs? This'll be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotto Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Things here will never change NEVER do as i do and ignore it! My travel agent had her car stolen filmed on cctv she took the tape to the bib they wanted 100,000thb to even do anything about it and they knew who did it!! work that one out i could not beleive it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamescollister Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 OP don't know about paying customs, but the land survey you have to pay for, it's not free if you are applying to change the title or usage. Have a small factory and had to pay 30,000 each, for 3 inspections. EPA, Health and safety and factories inspectorate. All above board, scheduled fees.. Sometimes people read corruption into normal payments, whether all the money gets into the Government coffers is a different story. As to the stolen car, didn't she have insurance, I have number one insurance, big company. They do not pay off cops, they tell the police what they want. Police don't want to get involved with the big boys. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWMcMurray Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 (edited) The customs one also makes no sense.. Working as a freight forwarder here in Thailand and never heard this one... You may want to recheck on this one...as guess there must be some misunderstanding... Normally your customs broker dealing with customs for you, so shouldn't need to be dealing with them or paying them anything Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app Edited February 9, 2013 by CWMcMurray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inthepink Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 (edited) Here we go again, when are you going to wake up and realize that corruption is a value of Thai society that is not going to change during yours or my lifetime. Corruption has been implanted and embedded in the culture for centuries. Most of the Thai people do not want a change since it doesn't affect the daily routines that have become part of their lives. A simple analogy: Why do UK legislators continue to wear those stupid wigs? This'll be good. Not really unique to Thai culture. I read recently that nearly 2500 elected officials in New York have been found guilty of corruption over the last ten or twenty years (sorry cant remember exact statistics) Chicago has had many corrupt officials too, and these figures only include those that have been caught. It really annoys me when Westerners try to take the moral high ground in Thailand and whine about corruption. The only difference that I can see is that here it is more open, plus I can afford to join in! Edited February 9, 2013 by inthepink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 We have a lot imports, airfreight and seafreight. No need to pay anything at customs. Customs works very well without corruption unless you cheat customs duty, than it is understandable that the officer also want his share. Most probable there is also something on the land documents wrong so they need some grease.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 The customs one also makes no sense.. Working as a freight forwarder here in Thailand and never heard this one... You may want to recheck on this one...as guess there must be some misunderstanding... Normally your customs broker dealing with customs for you, so shouldn't need to be dealing with them or paying them anything Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app Yes.......but maybe she is declaring the new Ferrari as old machinery. Wrong declaration is not unheard of. Or massive undervalued invoices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krisb Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 OP don't know about paying customs, but the land survey you have to pay for, it's not free if you are applying to change the title or usage. Have a small factory and had to pay 30,000 each, for 3 inspections. EPA, Health and safety and factories inspectorate. All above board, scheduled fees.. Sometimes people read corruption into normal payments, whether all the money gets into the Government coffers is a different story. As to the stolen car, didn't she have insurance, I have number one insurance, big company. They do not pay off cops, they tell the police what they want. Police don't want to get involved with the big boys. Jim Good point Jim. If she has to pay the govt asessor directly. cant she just go and pay the govt office instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krisb Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 The customs one also makes no sense.. Working as a freight forwarder here in Thailand and never heard this one... You may want to recheck on this one...as guess there must be some misunderstanding... Normally your customs broker dealing with customs for you, so shouldn't need to be dealing with them or paying them anything Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app Yes.......but maybe she is declaring the new Ferrari as old machinery. Wrong declaration is not unheard of. Or massive undervalued invoices. Or, maybe the op's wife is telling him its 100k a month and shes lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamescollister Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 We have a lot imports, airfreight and seafreight. No need to pay anything at customs. Customs works very well without corruption unless you cheat customs duty, than it is understandable that the officer also want his share. Most probable there is also something on the land documents wrong so they need some grease.... Doubt it, there is a set fee for land surveys, small square area 3,000 Baht, big or difficult tarrain more.If the land is to be used for a factory, the cost may be for applying to get it zoned industrial. Krisb We paid all bills to the SME Department, they arrange the inspections. Only time I ever paid cash, was for a land survey by the charnote people. That was a private job not through the Land Department. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asiasurfer Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Here we go again, when are you going to wake up and realize that corruption is a value of Thai society that is not going to change during yours or my lifetime. Corruption has been implanted and embedded in the culture for centuries. Most of the Thai people do not want a change since it doesn't affect the daily routines that have become part of their lives. A simple analogy: Why do UK legislators continue to wear those stupid wigs? This'll be good. Ok, pause for a moment. So are you actually saying that corruption is a "good" thing in Thailand and that we just have to get used to? Since the term "corruption" has a somewhat negative meaning shouldn't we rather call it "enabling"??? It may make it so much easier then to accept enabling as part of our daily lives here. In the end it's only just enabling for things to happen, isn't it... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorecard Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 (edited) Things here will never change NEVER do as i do and ignore it! My travel agent had her car stolen filmed on cctv she took the tape to the bib they wanted 100,000thb to even do anything about it and they knew who did it!! work that one out i could not beleive it! Years ago I was a passenger in a friends car in Bkk. Her car was about 6 to 8 months old and on hire purchase and she needed to watch her pennies to make the installments. She was stooped at a red light, and was hit in the rear by a hi-so woman in a BMW. BMW lady tried to get the police on the scene to demand the front car owner pay her compensation because she was too slow to anticipate the light would soon turn green. We all went to Lumpini Police station. The BMW lady arrived and in a second called someone to tell them, loudly, to come to the police station and service / repair all the air conditioners, paint several rooms, and more. The head honcho then ordered my friend to pay compensation for the damage to the BMW. My friend had to sell the car to raise enough funds to pay off her loan and pay the BMW compensation. Luckily she got a good price for her car and ended up square, but no car and no cash. Very unfair. She mentioned all of this to her Thai boss who listened and then checked who the hi-so lady was. Boss's advice: 'unfair, but it would be very dangerous don't attempt to challenge this lady'. Edited February 9, 2013 by scorecard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamescollister Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Things here will never change NEVER do as i do and ignore it! My travel agent had her car stolen filmed on cctv she took the tape to the bib they wanted 100,000thb to even do anything about it and they knew who did it!! work that one out i could not beleive it! Years ago I was a passenger in a friends car in Bkk. Her car was about 6 to 8 months old and on hire purchase and she needed to watch her pennies to make the installments. She was stooped at a red light, and was hit in the rear by a hi-so woman in a BMW. BMW lady tried to get the police on the scene to demand the front car owner pay her compensation because she was too slow to anticipate the light would soon turn green. We all went to Lumpini Police station. The BMW lady arrived and in a second called someone to tell them, loudly, to come to the police station and service / repair all the air conditioners, paint several rooms, and more. The head honcho then ordered my friend to pay compensation for the damage to the BMW. My friend had to sell the car to raise enough funds to pay off her loan and pay the BMW compensation. Luckily she got a good price for her car and ended up square, but no car and no cash. Very unfair. She mentioned all of this to her Thai boss who listened and then checked who the hi-so lady was. Boss's advice: 'unfair, but it would be very dangerous don't attempt to challenge this lady'. Don't follow the story, new car covered by number one insurance, less than a year old.HiSo lady must have been very big if she can take on Tokyo Marine or some other big international insurance company. Why didn't your friend just claim on the insurance, it's a phone call away and the insurance guy come to the scene. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayned Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Here we go again, when are you going to wake up and realize that corruption is a value of Thai society that is not going to change during yours or my lifetime. Corruption has been implanted and embedded in the culture for centuries. Most of the Thai people do not want a change since it doesn't affect the daily routines that have become part of their lives. A simple analogy: Why do UK legislators continue to wear those stupid wigs? This'll be good. Ok, pause for a moment. So are you actually saying that corruption is a "good" thing in Thailand and that we just have to get used to? Since the term "corruption" has a somewhat negative meaning shouldn't we rather call it "enabling"??? It may make it so much easier then to accept enabling as part of our daily lives here. In the end it's only just enabling for things to happen, isn't it... ? Ok, I paused! I never said that corruption was a "good" thing, what I said was it is part of the Thai culture and has been part of the culture for centuries and to continue to think that "someone stand up to all this fraudulent behaviour" is totally against the Thai way of life no one is going to do it and it's definitely not going to happen in your or my lifetime. So change the name to something that you feel more comfortable with, but the bottom line is it's not going to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamescollister Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Here we go again, when are you going to wake up and realize that corruption is a value of Thai society that is not going to change during yours or my lifetime. Corruption has been implanted and embedded in the culture for centuries. Most of the Thai people do not want a change since it doesn't affect the daily routines that have become part of their lives. A simple analogy: Why do UK legislators continue to wear those stupid wigs? This'll be good. Ok, pause for a moment. So are you actually saying that corruption is a "good" thing in Thailand and that we just have to get used to? Since the term "corruption" has a somewhat negative meaning shouldn't we rather call it "enabling"??? It may make it so much easier then to accept enabling as part of our daily lives here. In the end it's only just enabling for things to happen, isn't it... ? Ok, I paused! I never said that corruption was a "good" thing, what I said was it is part of the Thai culture and has been part of the culture for centuries and to continue to think that "someone stand up to all this fraudulent behaviour" is totally against the Thai way of life no one is going to do it and it's definitely not going to happen in your or my lifetime. So change the name to something that you feel more comfortable with, but the bottom line is it's not going to change. Yes paying for a service outside the rules is a custom, faster paper work done. Go ask for an express passport or a faster process. be it postal or banking in the west you pay extra. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 We have a lot imports, airfreight and seafreight. No need to pay anything at customs. Customs works very well without corruption unless you cheat customs duty, than it is understandable that the officer also want his share. Most probable there is also something on the land documents wrong so they need some grease.... Doubt it, there is a set fee for land surveys, small square area 3,000 Baht, big or difficult tarrain more.If the land is to be used for a factory, the cost may be for applying to get it zoned industrial. Krisb We paid all bills to the SME Department, they arrange the inspections. Only time I ever paid cash, was for a land survey by the charnote people. That was a private job not through the Land Department. Jim OK, you mean the government need someone certified is doing it.....but that is different than what the original posting tells. I recall when we got the 3 phase electric, they also needed to certify it and we needed a good company to do a correct installation. The certifying person told us that we should use his company and there will be no problem. That is on the brink of corruption...we used them, they were a bit expensive, they did an excellent job and he certified it. From what I have seen, a other company would have done a much worse job and he really could not have certified it....corruption or a good recommendation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmdf103 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 the only way to stop corruption is to have a fully functional full democracy, so that through elections the people can remove these immoral people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Things here will never change NEVER do as i do and ignore it! My travel agent had her car stolen filmed on cctv she took the tape to the bib they wanted 100,000thb to even do anything about it and they knew who did it!! work that one out i could not beleive it! Years ago I was a passenger in a friends car in Bkk. Her car was about 6 to 8 months old and on hire purchase and she needed to watch her pennies to make the installments. She was stooped at a red light, and was hit in the rear by a hi-so woman in a BMW. BMW lady tried to get the police on the scene to demand the front car owner pay her compensation because she was too slow to anticipate the light would soon turn green. We all went to Lumpini Police station. The BMW lady arrived and in a second called someone to tell them, loudly, to come to the police station and service / repair all the air conditioners, paint several rooms, and more. The head honcho then ordered my friend to pay compensation for the damage to the BMW. My friend had to sell the car to raise enough funds to pay off her loan and pay the BMW compensation. Luckily she got a good price for her car and ended up square, but no car and no cash. Very unfair. She mentioned all of this to her Thai boss who listened and then checked who the hi-so lady was. Boss's advice: 'unfair, but it would be very dangerous don't attempt to challenge this lady'. Hi So lady in new BMW has full insurance. Hi So lady does not go to the police station they let her lawyer do it. Police station don't say who is wrong who is right, courts does it. For the price of a car, you can buy a lawyer...very cheap in Thailand and the courts aren't bad, but slow. Most probably the story is wrong, friend gambled and needed to sell the car. Or car was purchased on credit and she could not pay it. Or the accident was complete different and the police told her she has no chance to win as she was really wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 the only way to stop corruption is to have a fully functional full democracy, so that through elections the people can remove these immoral people. yes but can you name one country that has a fully functional democracy? And even if you believe you can...is that country free of corruption? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayned Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 the only way to stop corruption is to have a fully functional full democracy, so that through elections the people can remove these immoral people. In Thailand a very large majority of the voters would have to vote to remove themselves. The problem is imbedded in all levels of Thai society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai Dreamer Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Hi James, I have whitness this recently, not personally but a good buddy is choping up some land. Some small fes, about 8000B, BUT it is a 6 month wait. If you want it before 6 months, it is a 18,000b bribe. I am not b1tching, just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTG Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 the only way to stop corruption is to have a fully functional full democracy, so that through elections the people can remove these immoral people. Or chane the role of government and massively reduce it and let the power of the free market bring thailand out of the dark ages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamescollister Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Hi James, I have whitness this recently, not personally but a good buddy is choping up some land. Some small fes, about 8000B, BUT it is a 6 month wait. If you want it before 6 months, it is a 18,000b bribe. I am not b1tching, just saying. Most countries charge extra for fast processing, try your bank on clearing a cheque, or passport office in getting a new passport fast. express post. Doesn't mean that the US or other postal service is pocketing the money, just that they have a fast and slow service.Thailand has a system, it can be slow at times,, but just like British rail, it will get you there in the end. Thailand works at a different pace than the west, foreigners just have to realize, it's not the west. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asiasurfer Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Here we go again, when are you going to wake up and realize that corruption is a value of Thai society that is not going to change during yours or my lifetime. Corruption has been implanted and embedded in the culture for centuries. Most of the Thai people do not want a change since it doesn't affect the daily routines that have become part of their lives. A simple analogy: Why do UK legislators continue to wear those stupid wigs? This'll be good. Ok, pause for a moment. So are you actually saying that corruption is a "good" thing in Thailand and that we just have to get used to? Since the term "corruption" has a somewhat negative meaning shouldn't we rather call it "enabling"??? It may make it so much easier then to accept enabling as part of our daily lives here. In the end it's only just enabling for things to happen, isn't it... ? Ok, I paused! I never said that corruption was a "good" thing, what I said was it is part of the Thai culture and has been part of the culture for centuries and to continue to think that "someone stand up to all this fraudulent behaviour" is totally against the Thai way of life no one is going to do it and it's definitely not going to happen in your or my lifetime. So change the name to something that you feel more comfortable with, but the bottom line is it's not going to change. Wayned, I probably have no other choice but to agree with you.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 the only way to stop corruption is to have a fully functional full democracy, so that through elections the people can remove these immoral people. Or chane the role of government and massively reduce it and let the power of the free market bring thailand out of the dark ages usually when some mega cooperation take over it doesn't get cheaper... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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