Make Or Buy A Calibrated Row-Fertiliser-Applicator

[Khonwan]

Anyone have a design or idea for a very simple-to-fabricate chicken manure row-fertiliser? I want to attach a hopper (probably 400 litres to accommodate 200kg chicken litter) to my ridge-raising plough.

I want to apply 500kg per rai. It is more efficient to apply it to the ridges only rather than broadcasting or scattering. My ridges are spaced at 1.25m centers. I therefore have 1,280 metres of ridged rows per rai (40m x 40m = 1 rai therefore 40/1.25 x 40 = 1280 metres of ridged rows). I need to apply the fertilizer at a rate of 0.391kg/m (=500/1280).

I expect to have to use a wheel to measure the distance (31.8cm diameter wheel travels 1m in one revolution) but what is the simplest mechanism to fabricate to dispense the measured volume? I’m thinking I’ll have to fabricate an auger chain-driven by a wheel.

The truly simplest way would be to have a second person sitting on the tractor manually emptying a jug (ca. 800m) of the fertilizer into a funnel with a 2” hose to the ground before the plough every time the marked wheel completes a revolution.

Any ideas on how to design an automated version of this? Or is there one on the market here in Thailand?

Rgds

Khonwan

[IsaanAussie]

well,I would install jumper leads between the battery and the left and right testicle of the plough jockey. Every time the wheel turns it closes a circuit and gives the jockey a wake up thrill "automatically" sleeping or not!

[Khonwan]

Now you’ve really given me an idea, IA: use a buffalo to pull the plough, attach the wheel and battery as per your suggestion, manure on demand! No need for chicken shit, Monkeypants!

Anyway, I’ve been working while you were having fun with this. I believe I have thought of the basis for a workable and easy-to-do solution. The 400-litre funnel-like hopper has an 8cm x 8cm x 20cm box-section welded underneath. The top of the box-section has a hinged flap that opens down to allow material in, and a hinged flap at the bottom to release the material.

The 32cm diameter wheel in contact with the ground has a sprocket with a chain driving a similar sized sprocket below the hopper. The latter sprocket has a bolt (or similar) attached to one face of the sprocket at a point near the sprocket teeth. This is attached perpendicularly by a metal bar to scissors-like metal straps that pulls down (opens) the top flap and pulls up (closes) the bottom flap simultaneously then reverses this action one half-revolution later, which consequentially fills the box section with approximately 800cc of material then releases it via gravity to the ground every revolution. The material is dry chicken/rice-husk litter.

Not sure that the top flap will be able to close sufficiently against the incoming flow of material so I’ll work on this aspect.

I’m sure someone reading this could well have a better idea. Please feel free to comment.

Rgds

Khonwan

[Canada]

Have a look at the fertiliser applicators on the back of sugarcane planting machines. Similar to your first idea in design. We also use a similar design another attachment for drill fertilising. I know that you can buy just the hopper/auger/and wheel drive assembly as a separate unit but I have not seen the size that you are talking about. If you look at these things, it may spark ideas or modifications to suit your needs.

You can adjust the amount that you apply through trial and error if you will, in changing the sprocket ratio on your drive chain.

D

Edited February 13, 2013 by Canada

[Khonwan]

Thanks, Canada. I’m going into Nakhon Sawan city on Saturday with the family and will visit a fabricator I’ve learned of who combines a small hopper with a ridge plough. I hope he can make a larger one for me – the mechanism will need to be altered, I guess, to accommodate the rice-husks (the chicken litter) rather than the usual chemical fertilizer grains.

Now I’ll jump across to your generator thread…

[NeverSure]

If you aren't going to broadcast in the conventional way, but rather gravity drop it, won't it need to be pretty dry, and ground up pretty fine for consistency? Let shredded, maybe?

I'd look at modifying a one-row seed planter, but I don't know if it could be done. Everything would have to be made bigger and more open. However, it might be a design to look at and start with.

I'm thinking more of a chain driven paddle with divisions just big enough to hold the proper amount of fertilizer for each drop. As it turned in time with the wheel, it would have a segment go past the drop chute and gravity would drop it out.

Where with a seed planter there is room only for a seed, this could simply be bigger and have room for a dose of fertilizer in each chamber.

Here are some pictures to look at.

[NeverSure]

OK, Here's what I'm thinking. The first pic below is a common undershot water wheel. It wouldn't work.

But the second pic is an overshot wheel, and it has sealed "cups" to hold water. Now, if that overshot design was built so that the cup sizes each held the amount of manure you want to drop, you could use it.

You could put it on bearings inside of the manure hopper, and covered by manure. As it turned in the manure, the cups would fill. Then, if it was right against the floor of the hopper, and the hopper had a proper hole in the bottom this wheel would drop one measured cup full as each cup passed over the hole.

So it wouldn't be anything like being overshot, it would just measure, turn and drop. Then you could time it with sprockets and a chain from ground wheel to "water wheel" axle to drop that exact amount in each cup at whatever distance apart you wanted. If you wanted the pile concentrated you could put a tube from the drop hole down.

As you see, you could also attach a furrower to it if that would help any.

This would operate like a row seeder, but it would be much bigger. You could put a sliding baffle in the bottom of the hopper to further reduce the amount dropped if needed.

[NeverSure]

I'll bet you already know all of this, but manure really promotes rust in equipment. It's not so bad when well aged, but fresh urea is highly alkaline. Chemical nitrogen will rust something out in a heartbeat too as you know. Manure was the enemy of anything steel.

Right after using such equipment, we thoroughly cleaned it with a pressure washer when we finally had one, and before, by hosing it out completely. Then we sprayed it with a mixture of 4 parts water and 1 part vinegar, let that sit for a minute and then rinsed it all off really well again. Then we put the machine in the sun to dry, and then put it away where it wasn't often wet.

If we had a brand new manure spreader or nitrogen granule spreader, used it without cleaning it and then left it out over winter just one year it was ruined. You only do that once, haha.

[Khonwan]

Thanks for your time and ideas here, NeverSure. Your paddle idea emulates my second guy cupping out a measured amount every revolution nicely. I had considered this but wondered about the difficulty of scooping from the hopper – probably not that difficult at all though! Could well be the best solution. Lots of great images via your link to spark ideas – I’ll spend some time looking at them.

The chicken manure consists mostly of rice husk and is normally very dry (a normal 50kg chemical-fertiliser bag filled with this and tied weighs only around 14kg). It really is the consistency of loose rice husks, albeit some stuck together by chicken waste. But yes, I believe the mechanism aperture will need to be large enough to accommodate clumps. The scoop/paddle idea handles this aspect well and does away with the need for a small aperture.

I have already considered the point you mentioned about manure being highly corrosive to metal and intend to use my power washer. I had not considered using vinegar so thank you for this idea too (for anyone wondering why: manure contains ammonia, which is alkaline, which is neutralized by acid, e.g. vinegar, which is acetic acid).

I’ll let you know if my visit to the fabricator on Saturday proves useful – if it doesn’t, I’ll start fabricating it myself (I’d rather use a professional fabricator because I will be SLOW).

Thanks

Khonwan

[NeverSure]

Welcome. You wouldn't necessarily need, or maybe even want, consecutive chambers in that wheel. You need them for developing power with water, but you are supplying the power. If the wheel was smooth, with maybe only 4 or 6 buckets, it could turn fast and still drop only a distance apart. If they were consecutive like an overshot water wheel, you might have to run it too slowly, and drag fertilizer over an area, instead of suddenly dropping it on one spot.

[loong]

You mentioned an auger before.

Can't you use a larger version of the old fashioned meat mincer with a driven sprocket instead of the handle?

[NeverSure]

We used a broadcast manure spreader. They are still in use, some are semi tractor trailers for large operations. They had a ribbed conveyor belt in the bottom of the whole thing, moving the manure backwards. At the back was a high speed flail that beat it and threw it.

Now liquid application is gaining popularity. It gets into the soil faster. A tank with an agitator, and a pump and sprayer, or a drop valve. They make those quite small, and again as big as a semi trailer. I don't know how your rice husks, or you land's ability to take weight would affect that.

They even spray it from sprinklers, and seen in the last pic.

Manure management for us was more than fertilizer. It was also environmental management although we didn't call it that. We called it getting rid of those big piles of sheet.

[NeverSure]

You mentioned an auger before.

Can't you use a larger version of the old fashioned meat mincer with a driven sprocket instead of the handle?

I was under the impression he wanted to drop a certain measured pile, ever so often, and at spaced distances. That's a new challenge for me because we broadcast it with a typical manure spreader as shown in the pics above.

The definitely use augers for broadcasting to the side of a load. High speed augers can really throw a stream of manure. That's much like the snow blowers used in heavy snow country for "plowing" roads.

Edited February 14, 2013 by NeverSure

[loong]

You mentioned an auger before.

Can't you use a larger version of the old fashioned meat mincer with a driven sprocket instead of the handle?

I was under the impression he wanted to drop a certain measured pile, ever so often, and at spaced distances. That's a new challenge for me because we broadcast it with a typical manure spreader as shown in the pics above.

The definitely use augers for broadcasting to the side of a load. High speed augers can really throw a stream of manure. That's much like the snow blowers used in heavy snow country for "plowing" roads.

What about something like this?

Central section would rotate and when hole at the top alighns with the hole in the hopper plate, it will fill.

When hole at the bottom aligns with the hole in the bottom plate, it will empty.

[NeverSure]

We can only guess. My guess is that it would work better for something smoother, heavier and more slippery. What is going to keep the manure from cavitating above the hole when it's so rough textured and light weight? What's going to assure that every dose falls into the hole?

I envision a vertical wheel which is actually in the manure, agitating it in addition to filling its cups. I might even put a few paddles on the sides of the wheels to agitate and loosen the manure. Then I would guess that the cups would surely fill, and stay filled as they press down through the manure until they reach bottom vertical and gravity drops the manure out.

Also, I can picture a chain from a wheel driving a sprocket that's attached to a horizontal shaft easier than I can a vertical shaft. I've commonly seen such directional change made with a V belt, but it doesn't have the traction of a chain, if it needs it at all. Also, the change usually requires 4 pulleys and 4 belts.

[loong]

Yes, I guess nothings perfect.

I would think that there would be a certain amount of vibration that would help prevent cavitation above the hole.

Yes, maybe you would not get the full dose every time. Probably be better with a shallower and wider fill cylinder and maybe elongated fill and empty holes in the plates.

Note also that your wheel idea will probably tend to compress the manure as it fills, especially when the vessel is full.

[Khonwan]

Yes, clogging above the aperture is very much my concern, hence my idea of using an auger or of providing an aperture of 4” x4”. I believe that a shallow hopper with a larger surface area would reduce clogging created by the mass above. I think all your ideas have merit.

Doesn’t have to be a volume at regular intervals: a continuous flow would be a little bit better so long as it is narrow and at a rate of 0.4kg/m.

Great stuff this for exercising our grey matter at our ages!

Rgds

Khonwan

[NeverSure]

An auger works very well for things that are slippery and easy to move. Hey, that's what moves the ice out of my ice maker in the fridge.

Augers are used a lot for moving grain. They unload from the grain combines into dump trucks to empty the combine on the fly, in the field. They move grain up into grain elevators. I've seen them used to move granular chemical fertilizer.

They are common with that one thing in common. The material they handle is smooth and slippery. Also, the auger bit must be confined in a tunnel, trough or tube. If it is open it will just stir. It needs to compress material against at least a 3 sided trough to move it. A round tube is better.

If putting out a continuous flow along a row is OK, an auger is worth considering. The auger usually is near the bottom with material weight on it. It starts with an open trough for the material to fill. Then the auger usually pull that material into a pipe where there is more control for uniformity. If the auger spins fast enough it will even throw the material quite some distance.

I obviously thought you only wanted to drop piles of manure at spaced intervals.

Here is an auger driven fertilizer spreader, far beyond what you want. It does show that they work.

Edited February 14, 2013 by NeverSure

[NeverSure]

I would always be considering that manure is light weight and rough textured and therefore doesn't want to flow by itself. I have never seen a manure spreader that didn't agitate the manure twice. The first agitation was to keep it broken up and fed to the dispenser. The second was the dispenser itself.

In the pic below, the whole floor is a conveyor belt with ridges of some kind which tumble the manure and push it back toward the flail. The second agitation is the flail itself. Of course the manure doesn't have to flow through any other device so it will just be agitated and thrown.

With the auger device above, there is a turning paddle wheel much like large fan blades in the hopper above the auger chute.

If this wasn't true, we wouldn't have bothered owning manure spreaders. We could have spread it with a dump truck, and pulled a harrow behind the truck. But when a really good driver wants to spread gravel, he opens the tail gate a small amount and holds it open that amount with chains. Then he drives at a speed, lifting the dump bed, and only a certain amount of gravel will flow based on size of opening and ground speed. A good driver is amazing.

But he couldn't do that with manure because the manure is too rough textured and too light weight and it wouldn't flow out. He would have to have agitators fluffing and chopping the manure inside the dump bed ahead of the tail gate if even that would work.

So I think the challenge is going to be to keep the manure agitated and forced, however you do that.

[Khonwan]

Thanks again, NeverSure. I’ll discuss all these ideas with the fabricator guy tomorrow.

Rgds

Khonwan

[Scoop1]

Hi, Khonwan, would it be easier to mix it with water and dispense it that way, a measured flow with a contstant speed across the ground, is that a possibility?

Cheers

Scoop

[Khonwan]

Scoop, I don’t think that would help for two reasons:this material cannot be dissolved in water, and a mechanism to dispense the required rate regardless of tractor speed would still be required: my land is too undulating and has too many trees, rocks, roots to maintain a constant speed.

I visited the fabricator I previously mentioned. The boss was not there but I described my basic requirements at the workshop and they agreed to consider a design for me.

As an aside, on my way there, just over 10km from my home, I came across a serow (a large, 180kg, endangered mountain goat with a horse-like mane) crossing the road from the river to a cliff. My journey that day was well worth it just for that.

Rgds

Khonwan

Edited February 25, 2013 by Khonwan