Usefruct Done!

[mark131v]

All completed today through the Pattaya Land Office for the princely sum of 75 Baht!!

I had a bit of nonsense last week with one of the land office guys playing dumb and saying it was not possible to get a lifetime Usefruct. I persevered and insisted it was so he had a word with the big boss lady who confirmed to him it was, I dont think he liked being proved wrong by me either. He then tried to charge me tax of 19000 Baht which then turned into 13000 Baht a few minutes later strangely enough for what I presume was a 30 year lease, I explained there was no tax to pay as we are married and are not leasing anything.

I ended up walking out that day but thanks to the guys on here who have uploaded the blank Usefruct form we returned today and after making sure we got a different officer was done in 30 minutes

Forms you need to take are:

Passport with copies of visa and information page

Chanote

Copies of:

House blue book

Wifes ID

Marriage Certificate

I have got to say that taking the blank form as an example it was very quick and easy, the land officers also mentioned that they did not see many foreigners doing it this way and where suprised that I knew about it as it is the easiest and cheapest way if you are married, suprisingly enough last week before I took the sample form nobody had ever heard of it though!!

Before anyone gets on and tells me that it is no good if you are married as it can be cancelled on divorce I already know this and if it ever does happen that we divorce that is fair enough as I would be entitled to 50% of everything anyhow as I believe is written in Thai law, for us the main reason is if, God forbid, anything happens to the wife and she dies before me I will not have to rely on luck to keep me and my daughter in our home

Quite refreshing to get somethink positive off TV so thanks to Chiangmai Bruce and Khun Jean and everyone else for passing on the information....

[mark131v]

link to the sample form and a lot of useful information:

http://www.samuiforsale.com/other-miscellaneous/usufruct-agreement-sample.html

all i took was a copy of the translation of the standard Land Office usefruct agreement

[Old Croc]

Do you need to be married?

[mark131v]

No mate, in fact I believe for most people being not married is an advantage as it is then not liable to being annuled if you get divorced but then that would probably involve the long term lease option and then require tax/tea money and could probably be construed as a way to get around the Foreigner owning land issue but I believe it is within the law to do

I just concentrated on the married aspect as that is what affects me, there is quite a lot on this subject on here including one poor guy who's wife did pass before him and the usefruct stands and can stay in the house until he dies. I also know a guy who bought a house through/with his girlfriend at the time and when they split this year after 10 years he is the one who is still in the house so it does appear to work

Edited February 13, 2013 by mark131v

[Old Croc]

I have always thought the usefruct till death would be the best way to go, but you said initially "you need a marriage cert".

Now you say "not married is an advantage but then that would probably involve the long term lease option and then require tax/tea money"

Why, what makes the situation different?

I'm currently have a Limited Company owning the properties, but due to some probs have thought about putting it in her name with myself covered until death. If I change I don't want to be paying a fortune in taxes.

[mark131v]

Croc as I am married that is what affects me but you do not need to be married to take out a usefruct it a legal way for anybody to get the right to use a plot of land until you croak....

alternatively I believe there is also a 30 year option and as I said there is shed loads of info on here from people much brighter than me, if you type usefruct into the search bar lots pop out or have a look on the link as there is a lot of information on there as well

Edit

Just re-read you post mate, as I understand it the agreement if you are married or not is exactly the same but if you are married an you divorce all agreements made during the period of the marriage can be anulled, if you are not married in theory the usefruct will stand with you still being the beneficiary, hope that is a bit clearer but like I said I am no expert but I do know it is quick and easy to do and for my family good insurance in a worst case scenario

Edited February 13, 2013 by mark131v

[Old Croc]

Croc as I am married that is what affects me but you do not need to be married to take out a usefruct it a legal way for anybody to get the right to use a plot of land until you croak....

alternatively I believe there is also a 30 year option and as I said there is shed loads of info on here from people much brighter than me, if you type usefruct into the search bar lots pop out or have a look on the link as there is a lot of information on there as well

Not trying to be a pain in the bum, I was just a little confused when you suggested a non married person should go for a lease.

A couple of years back I did reseach usefructs, In fact I think I have pages of documents on the subject hidden somewhere in my filing cabinet.

I was just interested to hear from someone who has successfully gone down this path. Others on this forum in the past have dismissed it as non-viable.

[mark131v]

Croc as I am married that is what affects me but you do not need to be married to take out a usefruct it a legal way for anybody to get the right to use a plot of land until you croak....

alternatively I believe there is also a 30 year option and as I said there is shed loads of info on here from people much brighter than me, if you type usefruct into the search bar lots pop out or have a look on the link as there is a lot of information on there as well

Not trying to be a pain in the bum, I was just a little confused when you suggested a non married person should go for a lease.

A couple of years back I did reseach usefructs, In fact I think I have pages of documents on the subject hidden somewhere in my filing cabinet.

I was just interested to hear from someone who has successfully gone down this path. Others on this forum in the past have dismissed it as non-viable.

No worries, as I see it the not being married option it is harder to argue that it is not being used to circumvent the law, hence the usefruct being structured as a lease with payment being made to the landowner and an initial lump sum of tax to the land office, picture a smallholder renting land from a big farmer for a set period or life

I think it is still perfectly legal to do a full lifetime usefruct without being married to the other party and without it being a lease but it is hard to see it as not trying to circumvent the spirit of the law as it would give ultimate lifetime use of the land/property, then again I am not an expert on the subject....as I said before I know a guy who did this with his girlfriend and when they split he is the one with permission to stay in the house to he drops off the perch and not her

I do not see how anybody can dismiss this as not viable it is written in Thai law and done without any lawyers or tea money....my name is now on the back of the chanote registered through the local land office and I now have permission to stay in my home until I die, divorce or somebody changes the rules......

Edited February 13, 2013 by mark131v

[Pib]

Yeap, the Land Office cost/fee here in Bangkok to do a lifetime Usufruct on the Chanote when the wife and I did it back in 2008 was about 75 baht.

[Bpuumike]

Is a 'suprficie' added legal insurance if you have a house on the land?

Thinking in worst case terms of a wife who has no road sense motocy or car.

[mark131v]

Bpuumike, sorry I have no idea what you are talking about

[Bpuumike]

Bpuumike, sorry I have no idea what you are talking about

As I understand it a Suprficie is similar to a Usufruct and is intended to cover any structure (house for my purposes) on the land for which you already have a Usufruct registered.

[mark131v]

Bpuumike, sorry I have no idea what you are talking about

As I understand it a Suprficie is similar to a Usufruct and is intended to cover any structure (house for my purposes) on the land for which you already have a Usufruct registered.

Sorry mate but I have no idea about this but if you have a usefruct for the land anything placed on the land is already covered, if you are worried about what happens if the Missus pops her clogs before you as I was and then possibly being turfed off the land/house then the usufruct covers it, the chanote is annotated on the back to indicate that you have the right to stay on the land for life and this was confirmed to me by the land officer

Edited February 14, 2013 by mark131v

[jamescollister]

I will say this again, usufructs have nothing to do with housing.

If you signed a document stating that the money your wife bought the land house was a gift and you make no claim to said land, then claim a usurfuct. You have made a false statement, Thai law up to 5 years jail.

Any partner can cancel the usufruct during marriage at any time, no court orders, just go to the land office and avoid it.

A usufruct is about farming, mining etc ergo it is a business thing and you have the right to work the land. Wherther you work or not makes no difference. Own a bar and get a beer out of the fridge, you need a work permit, get a beer out of your usufruct land, you are working without a W/P.

All sounds good until one day they crack down, land will be confiscated and chances are you will not get your visa or extension renewed. You may very well end up in handcuffs.

Just because the laws are not enforced often doesn't mean they will never be enforced.Jim

[bigwilly]

mark131v

Thanks for the post, very usefull and good information, I have a question , was the marriage certificate from overseas translated and verified by Dept of Foreign Affairs, or was it from a marriage performed within Thailand?. Thanks in anticipation.

BW.

[mark131v]

James you keep banging on about this we bought the house 18 months ago and I did sign to say that I had no claim on the land, nothing dodgy in that and personally I think you are wrong

Our local land office processed this and anotated all the paperwork and they know that it is an house and not a farm or mine, how is this dodgy, Thai law allows for usufructs and leases but does not allow for a foreigner to own land....I do not own any land but have been gifted the use of the home as her husband once I die it reverts back to Thai I have no issues with this and neither apparantly do the local officials who are the subject matter experts

If I was in this as a way to own land maybe I would be worried about the usefruct being voided by the wife but my reason for the ufestruct is not to own land it is to provide stability if my wife dies, If we were to divorce I have absolutely no qualms about the contract being declared null as I would still be wanting to provide for my family plus I would still be eligible to 50% on divorce anyway as everybody else is when married here

I think you are a bit paranoid James and I am very happy that I have played by the rules and unless anything changes and the laws are rewritten that I will be here for the long run, like I said the local subject matter experts are happy to offer this to a Farang with no lawyers deceit or bribes involved, my name is on the chanote and it does state I have the right to stay here till I die and I am certain I will not be going to the monkey house any time soon so we will have to agree to disagree on this......again!

For anyone out there considering doing this from my experience with a little knowledge of the process all gained here, my pov is it is a straightforward cheap and for me and gives some piece of mind, there are many things illegal in this country that people in authority and the goverment close a blind eye to but usually this is preceeded with a bribe to enable it, personally I believe this is legal and above board but if you are using it as a backdoor way to get land then maybe against the spirit of the law

Bigwilly out marriage was done in Thailand but had been registered when we lived back in the UK but a marriage certificate that is translated and and verified is still a marriage certificate as far as I can see....

[jamescollister]

Nothing to do with the land office, they only register things, signing a false statement is a police matter.

As to staying on if your wife dies, court will decide whether you have to sell or not.

As said usufructs have nothing to do with housing, civil code has rights of habitation, that's about housing.

If usufructs where for real I would have one as I am a farmer [ rubber ] and the usufruct is a right to farm [fruits of the land etc]

Only takes you to upset the wrong person and they make a police complaint, your screwed.

I posted about the crack down on nominee house ownership, the new laws before parliament are not restricted to company ownership, but illegal land owning and control by foreigners.

If your usufruct was legal you have a life time W/P, there is nothing in the civil code about 1/2 or 1/4 usufructs for farangs, you have one or you don't. If you have one you are attempting to circumvent Thai land law and one day they will come a knocking. May not be tomorrow or next year or 10 years, but they will come.

Ask the Chinese rice company that took usufructs and leases on rice land, court took the whole lot.

You may be a small player, but it's the same law. Jim

[LennyW]

Nothing to do with the land office, they only register things, signing a false statement is a police matter.

How is it nothing to do with the land office? It is only the land office that can issue an Usufruct against any title.

As to staying on if your wife dies, court will decide whether you have to sell or not.

If your wife pre deceaces you and you have an uncontested lifetime Usufruct in your favour, the court does not decide if you stay on or not, only in the event of YOUR death the court will decide the division of the remaining asset.

As said usufructs have nothing to do with housing, civil code has rights of habitation, that's about housing.

If usufructs where for real I would have one as I am a farmer [ rubber ] and the usufruct is a right to farm [fruits of the land etc]

Usufruct is not a right to FARM, you do not HAVE to farm or mine on the land as you seem to have interpretated, it is a right to enjoy the fruits of the land, that does not literally mean mangoes, rice, gold, oil, etc.

Only takes you to upset the wrong person and they make a police complaint, your screwed.

Nonsense

I posted about the crack down on nominee house ownership, the new laws before parliament are not restricted to company ownership, but illegal land owning and control by foreigners.

If you had researched that topic instead of just quoting the story that was posted, you would have realised a few things...the, Ombudsman spouting the story was in no position to propose any laws, there was not any law changed or put before parliament, his comments were directed at nations such as China, Saudi and Africa who it is believed were purchasing millions of acres of land for rice production (hot topic at the time), nothing more than sabre rattling often misquoted and more often misinterpreted, sorry.

If your usufruct was legal you have a life time W/P, there is nothing in the civil code about 1/2 or 1/4 usufructs for farangs, you have one or you don't. If you have one you are attempting to circumvent Thai land law and one day they will come a knocking. May not be tomorrow or next year or 10 years, but they will come.

There is no need to have a work permit with an Usufruct unless you are actually conducting business on the land, not automatically assuming you are mining or farming as you have wrongly assumed so many times in your responses on Usufruct topics. Nobody is circumventing the law, quite the contrary, by obtaining, acknowledging and signing your acceptance of the terms of an Usufruct, you are acknowledging that you have no claim on the land, you only have temporary (lifetime) use, and after that the use of the land shall return to the THAI owner - simple.

Ask the Chinese rice company that took usufructs and leases on rice land, court took the whole lot.

See my earlier response, we are not talking about national conglomerates here, which yes are under continual scrutiny.

You may be a small player, but it's the same law. Jim

Not even close!

Jim, i have put my responses in blue above for clarity.

I have followed your responses over the last few weeks with regards to Usufructs, and i am sorry but your view and more importantly your interpretation and understanding seems to be somewhat skewed, i get the impression that you got rebuked at your attempt to have an Usufruct in your favour and consequently spend your time trying to justify that in in your own eyes you were wronged, selectively picking parts of laws and codes to justify your interpretation will not do that no matter how good it makes you feel.!! You need to get a second opinion to your circumstance from a lawyer away from your immediate location, and family!.

PS : I would be very interested to learn how you got a work permit to be, as in your words, "I am a farmer"??

[jamescollister]

Nothing to do with the land office, they only register things, signing a false statement is a police matter.

How is it nothing to do with the land office? It is only the land office that can issue an Usufruct against any title.

As to staying on if your wife dies, court will decide whether you have to sell or not.

If your wife pre deceaces you and you have an uncontested lifetime Usufruct in your favour, the court does not decide if you stay on or not, only in the event of YOUR death the court will decide the division of the remaining asset.

As said usufructs have nothing to do with housing, civil code has rights of habitation, that's about housing.

If usufructs where for real I would have one as I am a farmer [ rubber ] and the usufruct is a right to farm [fruits of the land etc]

Usufruct is not a right to FARM, you do not HAVE to farm or mine on the land as you seem to have interpretated, it is a right to enjoy the fruits of the land, that does not literally mean mangoes, rice, gold, oil, etc.

Only takes you to upset the wrong person and they make a police complaint, your screwed.

Nonsense

I posted about the crack down on nominee house ownership, the new laws before parliament are not restricted to company ownership, but illegal land owning and control by foreigners.

If you had researched that topic instead of just quoting the story that was posted, you would have realised a few things...the, Ombudsman spouting the story was in no position to propose any laws, there was not any law changed or put before parliament, his comments were directed at nations such as China, Saudi and Africa who it is believed were purchasing millions of acres of land for rice production (hot topic at the time), nothing more than sabre rattling often misquoted and more often misinterpreted, sorry.

If your usufruct was legal you have a life time W/P, there is nothing in the civil code about 1/2 or 1/4 usufructs for farangs, you have one or you don't. If you have one you are attempting to circumvent Thai land law and one day they will come a knocking. May not be tomorrow or next year or 10 years, but they will come.

There is no need to have a work permit with an Usufruct unless you are actually conducting business on the land, not automatically assuming you are mining or farming as you have wrongly assumed so many times in your responses on Usufruct topics. Nobody is circumventing the law, quite the contrary, by obtaining, acknowledging and signing your acceptance of the terms of an Usufruct, you are acknowledging that you have no claim on the land, you only have temporary (lifetime) use, and after that the use of the land shall return to the THAI owner - simple.

Ask the Chinese rice company that took usufructs and leases on rice land, court took the whole lot.

See my earlier response, we are not talking about national conglomerates here, which yes are under continual scrutiny.

You may be a small player, but it's the same law. Jim

Not even close!

Jim, i have put my responses in blue above for clarity.

I have followed your responses over the last few weeks with regards to Usufructs, and i am sorry but your view and more importantly your interpretation and understanding seems to be somewhat skewed, i get the impression that you got rebuked at your attempt to have an Usufruct in your favour and consequently spend your time trying to justify that in in your own eyes you were wronged, selectively picking parts of laws and codes to justify your interpretation will not do that no matter how good it makes you feel.!! You need to get a second opinion to your circumstance from a lawyer away from your immediate location, and family!.

PS : I would be very interested to learn how you got a work permit to be, as in your words, "I am a farmer"??

Don't have a work permit for farming, wife owns the farming part.

As for misinterpreting usufructs, no one has posted or shown where they refer to home ownership, they say a right to enjoy the land. Have a right to enjoy most public parks, but the does not give me a right to build a house there.

Usufrict clealy state you can mine, farm and use the land for profit, which part of the usufruct covers foreigners, none. There are no sub sections saying in the case of a farang he may only do this or that.

If you have a usufruct then it gives you the right to work the land, that's what they are about and you as a farang are prohibited.

Someone want to post one case where a farang has won in court with a usufruct. These laws I think have been enforce for over 40 years and in all that time no foreigner has contested the law, come on.

Usufructs are about business deals not housing, housing is covered in the civil code under rights of habitation.

Willing to listen to any argument that can state differently if there are some real facts. No one in all these usufruct threads has put up one piece of the civil code re usufructs that says you have the right to control, work the land as a foreigner.

It's a criminal offence to attempt to circumvent Thai land law.

Why would big hosing estates not issue usufruct on houses to farangs, anyone living in a new housing estate with a usufruct given by the builders. They are not about housing, that's that. Jim

[mark131v]

Jim do you really believe that land offices across Thailand would be willing to issue these if they thought for one minute it was illegal or they could profit from it

I mentioned the guy trying to issue me a lease and asking for 19k then a couple of minutes later down to 13k that is the business a lot of people in authority here are in, personal profit. As soon as I went with the form they knew there was no longer any personal profit in it as the stupid fallang had done a bit of homework so from that point on there was no attempt to make a profit from it in fact I was congratulated as a clever fallang for finding out about this 'not many fallang know about this way and it is cheapest and best if you are married' the land officer said that not me.

Nothing underhand or sneaky done, no trying to get a bribe out of me, no need for a lawyer no need to pretend or lie about anything, this is probably one of the most straight forward and least corrupt things I have done in this country

Jim have you ever had a chat with the land office reference this subject because I have and can confirm they advised me that I am able to stay in our home until I die and they have even written that out on the back of an official Thai goverment document call me naive but just this once I am going to take a Thai official at their word, I would recomend you have a chat with the land office as you might be suprised....anyway enough of that as I know we will never agree but suffice to say I am sleeping easy in my bed with a clear conscience....

[Khun Jean]

Sorry JIm,

But it is you who misinterpret, or only interpret what is valid in your case the law about usufructs.

It specifically states that it is over an "immovable property".

Only in the case of a forest, mine or quarry it is about exploitation (in which case you probably need a work permit).

In your specific case you are right. A rubber plantation would fall in the category of a forest/mine/quarry.

However if it is about a piece of land, that is no forest, ("farmland"), mine or quarry a right to use the immovable property is "use and enjoyment".

See section 1417.

More particulars in 1418 to 1428

About your example that signing a paper that the money is a gift to your wife being illegal and then claiming a usufruct.

First there is no such document. You sign a paper to declare it is your wifes property and that it belongs to her personal estate. This document is to make it very clear to the foreigner that in case of divorce he can not make a claim and a condition to be met before transfer of the land can be done.

----

I have been to the land office a few times and the landoffice employee (who we found out later was transfered from the Phuket landoffice, should tell you enough!) the last time demanded to see my wifes bankbook to see that the money was from my wife. I said , i just declared it on the document i signed, so you have no need and it is only your personal demand. She replied it was her managers order. I replied, lets talk to the manager then.Also tThe seller got upset and gave her a mouthfull. Suddenly the bankbook was not required anymore.

Above little story is what happens a lot. Personal attempts to throw up imaginary difficulties that can be solved by tea money.

Don't fall for them, be prepared!

-----

If prior to that you gave her a gift of money, this is a totally private matter and has no official documentation.

Even if you try to "circumvent" by using a Thai to buy land for you and get a usufruct right away it is not a circumvention of the law. It is a legal trade. You trade your money for use of land, the Thai gets to be the owner of the land. Very good trade for both parties as after 30 years or length of usufruct the Thai has unencumbered land.

The only part a Thai has to worry about is taxes.

Edited February 14, 2013 by Khun Jean

[jamescollister]

Sorry JIm,

But it is you who misinterpret, or only interpret what is valid in your case the law about usufructs.

It specifically states that it is over an "immovable property".

Only in the case of a forest, mine or quarry it is about exploitation (in which case you probably need a work permit).

In your specific case you are right. A rubber plantation would fall in the category of a forest/mine/quarry.

However if it is about a piece of land, that is no forest, ("farmland"), mine or quarry a right to use the immovable property is "use and enjoyment".

See section 1417.

More particulars in 1418 to 1428

About your example that signing a paper that the money is a gift to your wife being illegal and then claiming a usufruct.

First there is no such document. You sign a paper to declare it is your wifes property and that it belongs to her personal estate. This document is to make it very clear to the foreigner that in case of divorce he can not make a claim and a condition to be met before transfer of the land can be done.

----

I have been to the land office a few times and the landoffice employee (who we found out later was transfered from the Phuket landoffice, should tell you enough!) the last time demanded to see my wifes bankbook to see that the money was from my wife. I said , i just declared it on the document i signed, so you have no need and it is only your personal demand. She replied it was her managers order. I replied, lets talk to the manager then.Also tThe seller got upset and gave her a mouthfull. Suddenly the bankbook was not required anymore.

Above little story is what happens a lot. Personal attempts to throw up imaginary difficulties that can be solved by tea money.

Don't fall for them, be prepared!

-----

If prior to that you gave her a gift of money, this is a totally private matter and has no official documentation.

Even if you try to "circumvent" by using a Thai to buy land for you and get a usufruct right away it is not a circumvention of the law. It is a legal trade. You trade your money for use of land, the Thai gets to be the owner of the land. Very good trade for both parties as after 30 years or length of usufruct the Thai has unencumbered land.

The only part a Thai has to worry about is taxes.

Jean, you make a very good case, what I am saying is there is no sub sections for foreigners. Whether you work the land or not, the usufruct gives you the right to and you can not have that right in Thailand.

Want a house get a right of habitation, not a usufruct, not seen anywhere that says this bit of a usufruct applies and that bit doesn't. You have one or you don't. Jim

[Pacificperson]

I have wondered about using a non-profit such as a public univeristy's fund raising office. Could I pay for property and donate it to the univerisity in exchange for a lifetime usufruct? It could be a win-win for both me and the university. They have a long enough time horizon that they might be willing to take such a donation. The would be no Thai wives or children involved.

[Bpuumike]

Bpuumike, sorry I have no idea what you are talking about

As I understand it a Suprficie is similar to a Usufruct and is intended to cover any structure (house for my purposes) on the land for which you already have a Usufruct registered.

Sorry mate but I have no idea about this but if you have a usefruct for the land anything placed on the land is already covered, if you are worried about what happens if the Missus pops her clogs before you as I was and then possibly being turfed off the land/house then the usufruct covers it, the chanote is annotated on the back to indicate that you have the right to stay on the land for life and this was confirmed to me by the land officer

Check it out.

The Suprficie seems to give you extra protection over and above the Usufruct, and only costs the same.

[jamescollister]

Bpuumike, sorry I have no idea what you are talking about

As I understand it a Suprficie is similar to a Usufruct and is intended to cover any structure (house for my purposes) on the land for which you already have a Usufruct registered.

Sorry mate but I have no idea about this but if you have a usefruct for the land anything placed on the land is already covered, if you are worried about what happens if the Missus pops her clogs before you as I was and then possibly being turfed off the land/house then the usufruct covers it, the chanote is annotated on the back to indicate that you have the right to stay on the land for life and this was confirmed to me by the land officer

Check it out.

The Suprficie seems to give you extra protection over and above the Usufruct, and only costs the same.

Section 1410. The owner of a piece of land may create a right of superficies in favour of another person by giving him the right to own, upon or under the land, buildings, structures or plantations.

You are a foreigner you have no right to own, land office will register one no problem. Not worth the paper it is written on, it's for Thais. Jim

[mark131v]

Blimey Jim something we agree on as it does indeed state to own, whether a land office would register it or not I really have no idea but I presume you must have spoken to a few offices to come to that conclusion

[jamescollister]

Blimey Jim something we agree on as it does indeed state to own, whether a land office would register it or not I really have no idea but I presume you must have spoken to a few offices to come to that conclusion

Land office will register it, not a problem, law does not state foreigen or national, but try to enforce it. Jim

[Morden]

An usufruct is perfectly legal even though you have stated that the land was not bought with your partner's money. You gave the money to her as a gift. My information is that an usufruct survives a divorce unless you relinquish it. The Land Office won't allow anything that's not legal.

If you think that an usufruct is for farm land, plant a few fruit trees

I have had an usufruct contract on the same property twice. The fist time, it was drafted by a lawyer. when I divorced, I relinquished the usufruct and the property was transferred to a Thai friend. When I remarried, he passed it to my new wife who signed a new usufruct with me. I drafted that myself, with amendments to the standard form, and asked a lawyer to check and translate it for me.

The alternative is a lease but that involves the bureaucracy of an annual tax, I believe.

[jamescollister]

An usufruct is perfectly legal even though you have stated that the land was not bought with your partner's money. You gave the money to her as a gift. My information is that an usufruct survives a divorce unless you relinquish it. The Land Office won't allow anything that's not legal.

If you think that an usufruct is for farm land, plant a few fruit trees

I have had an usufruct contract on the same property twice. The fist time, it was drafted by a lawyer. when I divorced, I relinquished the usufruct and the property was transferred to a Thai friend. When I remarried, he passed it to my new wife who signed a new usufruct with me. I drafted that myself, with amendments to the standard form, and asked a lawyer to check and translate it for me.

The alternative is a lease but that involves the bureaucracy of an annual tax, I believe.

So you are saying that you own land in Thailand, and your ex wife was happy to give her land to your friend. No payment, charnot residential land with house 3 may be 5 mill Baht and she just gave it away, you have to be pulling my plonker. Jim

[Morden]

An usufruct is perfectly legal even though you have stated that the land was not bought with your partner's money. You gave the money to her as a gift. My information is that an usufruct survives a divorce unless you relinquish it. The Land Office won't allow anything that's not legal.

If you think that an usufruct is for farm land, plant a few fruit trees

I have had an usufruct contract on the same property twice. The fist time, it was drafted by a lawyer. when I divorced, I relinquished the usufruct and the property was transferred to a Thai friend. When I remarried, he passed it to my new wife who signed a new usufruct with me. I drafted that myself, with amendments to the standard form, and asked a lawyer to check and translate it for me.

The alternative is a lease but that involves the bureaucracy of an annual tax, I believe.

So you are saying that you own land in Thailand, and your ex wife was happy to give her land to your friend. No payment, charnot residential land with house 3 may be 5 mill Baht and she just gave it away, you have to be pulling my plonker. Jim

I 'kept' the land and house as part of the divorce settlement. She got cash, the Vigo and some furniture. I think I got a good deal.