In Death, Insurgent Is Man Of Two Lives: Thai South

[Thai at Heart]

Dolly, the ridiculous thing is that rest of the world doesn't give a dam_n about the problem down there, and the more they bomb and fight the authorities, the chance of any type of discussion disappears.

If there is anything anyone has ever learnt about terrorism (and I am sure that the Thai government is getting plenty of advice from the USA, UK and others behind the scenes) is that you don't negotiate with active terrorists. So the longer they continue to bomb and kill innocent people, the further any hope they have of any type of settlement goes further off into the distance. The odds that they get autonomy or some sort of local control is very slim. If they keep on fighting it goes even further off into the future.

I for one could see them gaining some type of autonomy as long as they abide by certain tenets of Thai law and society, no shariah, no individual school curiculum (Thailand should remove buddhist teaching from schools anyway), but they will never get anywhere near it, if they keep shooting and bombing.

[simple1]

I read it a long and rambling pointless article.

"All that changed on November 14 when gunmen, believed to be part of a pro-government death squad, killed an imam in Yala's Yaha district. Abdullateh Todir, 49, was a member of the Islamic Committee of Yala, as well as chairman of the Imam Association of Yaha. He is a resident of Tambon Patae, an extremely volatile area in this highly contested region of Thailand"

That was the only case cited for pro government senseless killing. Even at that they could not say for sure it was pro government forces and not just some nut job (well they all are) who wanted the people to think it was the government to cover up and justify in there minds the wanton killing of innocent people.

The rest was unsubstantiated allegations with no specific cases sighted. Also the article was jumping all over the place in time.

You like the tit for tat. Might I suggest it was and is tit for tat and tat and tat and tat and tat and tat and tit and tat and tat and tat and tat and tat,

Do you see the progression here. Will the tit for taters now claim that the Muslims must kill more solders to get even for there losses in there recently failed attempted at tating. Tating as in an on going jihad of senseless killings.

There are a awful lot of Muslims in the south and to date very few of them have come forward to do some thing about it. Such as in the last failed attempt when a hero ratted them out. Given enough hero's such as he/she the problem would have been over long ago. Lets face it the problem stems not from anti government feelings it is from the feeling that they are superior.

The North has many different hill tribes some with out official recognition from the Thai government. Villages that are Chinese refugees. All have been able to settle into a social network of different beliefs with out bombs or guns. In the whole world Islam is the only different culture that needs guns and bombs to believe in it's self.

If you wish to accuse me of being closed minded on the subject you would be right. I am quite sure you have many innocent friends who are Muslim but do you know what they do behind closed doors. Who is it funding these terrorists. Who is it sitting idly by while innocent people are killed.

Off topic, but is that correct that Thai hill tribes are settling into the social network of Thailand? Approximately 900,000 hill tribe “color card” holders in Thailand who are not recognized as Thai citizens, and are therefore, functionally stateless. Cannot officially own land, open a bank account etc without a Thai ID card. I would not call that settling into the fabric of Thai society. Also some heavily involved with drug trafficking in collaboration with corrupt Thai law enforcement.

http://www.unescobkk.org/news/article/unesco-combating-lack-of-legal-status-among-ethnic-groups/

Regards funding in the Deep South, just like you do not know facts, but assume from drugs and smuggling in collaboration with corrupt Thai officials. Who are sitting idly by? Well you know the answer already. Thais in the various government agencies who do not earn the trust & respect of the local community with the obvious result.

Over & out on this topic.

[Arkady]

This article explains very well why the Thai state will never win in the three southernmost provinces. A young man survives massacre by suffocation and dehydration perpetrated by the Thai military while many of his friends don't. No Thai officials are ever punished for the murders or even reprimanded. This turns the man into a highly motivated terrorist whose only desire in life is to kill Thai soldiers to avenge his comrades. Everyone knows that, if captured alive by the army they will be savagely tortured and then killed. So they prefer to be martyred and get the 86 virgins. The man is duly martyred to the relief of his wife and family and the community gives him the highest honours of a martyred jihadist. 17 terrorists, including 3 or 4 key leaders, have been neutralised by the military but the whole episode has inspired hundreds of young men to follow in their footsteps. The handful that are captured by the military subsequent to the attack reveal very little even under severe torture because they are organised into very small cells like the FLN were in Algeria when they fought the French, so that no one will give away much even with the acetylene burner applied to the testicles.

And so it goes on. It is unlikely that there will such ambitious full frontal assaults on well dug in army posts for a while but the improvised roadside bombs and ambushes will continue to gnaw away at the army and police, always provoking them into more attrocities that perpetuate local support for the terrorists. The war has been going on for over 100 years. It dies down for a few years and then flares up again violently under a new generation of terrorist leaders who have no connection with the previous generation and never lay claim to any of their attacks which makes them much harder to trace. Thailand is unlikely to win this ,war unless it either eliminates or deports the Malay Muslim population.

[Arkady]

Dolly, the ridiculous thing is that rest of the world doesn't give a dam_n about the problem down there, and the more they bomb and fight the authorities, the chance of any type of discussion disappears.

If there is anything anyone has ever learnt about terrorism (and I am sure that the Thai government is getting plenty of advice from the USA, UK and others behind the scenes) is that you don't negotiate with active terrorists. So the longer they continue to bomb and kill innocent people, the further any hope they have of any type of settlement goes further off into the distance. The odds that they get autonomy or some sort of local control is very slim. If they keep on fighting it goes even further off into the future.

I for one could see them gaining some type of autonomy as long as they abide by certain tenets of Thai law and society, no shariah, no individual school curiculum (Thailand should remove buddhist teaching from schools anyway), but they will never get anywhere near it, if they keep shooting and bombing.

I don't think they get advice for what it would be worth from the US or UK because they wouldn't want to admit there is a problem. They do get unsolicited advice from the Organization of Islamic Countries but are not too thrilled about that.

No need to worry that they are negotiating with terrorists because they don't know who the leaders are and there may not even be any overall command structure to negotiate with anyway - just a lot of loosely connected cells with a common aim. There are occasional talks with the exiled leaders of terrorist groups from the 60s when they wanted publicity and claimed responsibility for attacks. But those days are gone and those leaders have no influence on today's leaders and probably don't even know who they are.

The odds that they get autonomy of any kind in the foreseeable future are very slim, regardless of whether the terror campaign continues or not. Of all the provinces only Bangkok has a limited degree of autonomy but even there the city has no power over all the overlapping tentacles of central government ministries and state enterprises, rendering it virtually impotent. All the other provincial governors are directly appointed by Bangkok and also have limited control over all the state agencies in their provinces. It is actually much more likely that local autonomy will come to other regions first, although not in the foreseeable future. The current government would certainly not dream of any kind of local autonomy anywhere South of Petchburi because that is the Democrats' stronghold.

[hellodolly]

I read it a long and rambling pointless article.

"All that changed on November 14 when gunmen, believed to be part of a pro-government death squad, killed an imam in Yala's Yaha district. Abdullateh Todir, 49, was a member of the Islamic Committee of Yala, as well as chairman of the Imam Association of Yaha. He is a resident of Tambon Patae, an extremely volatile area in this highly contested region of Thailand"

That was the only case cited for pro government senseless killing. Even at that they could not say for sure it was pro government forces and not just some nut job (well they all are) who wanted the people to think it was the government to cover up and justify in there minds the wanton killing of innocent people.

The rest was unsubstantiated allegations with no specific cases sighted. Also the article was jumping all over the place in time.

You like the tit for tat. Might I suggest it was and is tit for tat and tat and tat and tat and tat and tat and tit and tat and tat and tat and tat and tat,

Do you see the progression here. Will the tit for taters now claim that the Muslims must kill more solders to get even for there losses in there recently failed attempted at tating. Tating as in an on going jihad of senseless killings.

There are a awful lot of Muslims in the south and to date very few of them have come forward to do some thing about it. Such as in the last failed attempt when a hero ratted them out. Given enough hero's such as he/she the problem would have been over long ago. Lets face it the problem stems not from anti government feelings it is from the feeling that they are superior.

The North has many different hill tribes some with out official recognition from the Thai government. Villages that are Chinese refugees. All have been able to settle into a social network of different beliefs with out bombs or guns. In the whole world Islam is the only different culture that needs guns and bombs to believe in it's self.

If you wish to accuse me of being closed minded on the subject you would be right. I am quite sure you have many innocent friends who are Muslim but do you know what they do behind closed doors. Who is it funding these terrorists. Who is it sitting idly by while innocent people are killed.

Off topic, but is that correct that Thai hill tribes are settling into the social network of Thailand? Approximately 900,000 hill tribe “color card” holders in Thailand who are not recognized as Thai citizens, and are therefore, functionally stateless. Cannot officially own land, open a bank account etc without a Thai ID card. I would not call that settling into the fabric of Thai society. Also some heavily involved with drug trafficking in collaboration with corrupt Thai law enforcement.

http://www.unescobkk...-ethnic-groups/

Regards funding in the Deep South, just like you do not know facts, but assume from drugs and smuggling in collaboration with corrupt Thai officials. Who are sitting idly by? Well you know the answer already. Thais in the various government agencies who do not earn the trust & respect of the local community with the obvious result.

Over & out on this topic.

As you say " 900,000 hill tribe “color card” holders in Thailand who are not recognized as Thai citizens"

What you conveniently forgot to mention is they do it with out bombs and guns. If there was such a thing as a good reason to carry on as the southern Muslims do I believe they would qualify far more that the Muslims do.

I assume no such thing as drugs and smuggling by corrupt Thai officials to be where the money to fund the terrorists is coming from. That violates common sense. I am quite sure there is money coming from drugs and smuggling. But I highly doubt much of it is Thai officials approved. There are other people doing it without one baht going to the terrorists.

I admit I am closed minded on the subject that does not mean I am ignorant.

Over and out.

[Bluespunk]

in islam, there is a whole passage, that declares it is ok to even drink alcohol and eat pork meat, just to fit in and lie about your true calling

Really? Never heard that before. What passage is this?

[A_Traveller]

This argument is usually based on "Taqiyya" which is taken by some to establish the principal that a Muslim is not required to be truthful to a non Muslim. The underlying principal is also seen within the text Reliance of the Traveller and entries in both the Qur'an and the Hadith.

It is though, in my view, an extreme reading and is further based upon the notion that there is a conflict [though to be fair possibly undeclared] between the parties.

Edited February 15, 2013 by A_Traveller

[simple1]

This argument is usually based on "Taqiyya" which is taken by some to establish the principal that a Muslim is not required to be truthful to a non Muslim. The underlying principal is also seen within the text Reliance of the Traveller and entries in both the Qur'an and the Hadith.

It is though, in my view, an extreme reading and is further based upon the notion that there is a conflict [though to be fair possibly undeclared] between the parties.

Yes that's my understanding, all about context. Plus some say that Muslims are permitted to eat pork when their is no other choice but starving to death. Also It says in Surah al Baqarah, Chapter number 2, verse 219, "Say oh Mohammad, when they ask you concerning wine and intoxicants, say to them that there is benefit. But there is also harm. And the harm outweighs the benefit, so stay away from it"

[Thaddeus]

This argument is usually based on "Taqiyya" which is taken by some to establish the principal that a Muslim is not required to be truthful to a non Muslim. The underlying principal is also seen within the text Reliance of the Traveller and entries in both the Qur'an and the Hadith.

It is though, in my view, an extreme reading and is further based upon the notion that there is a conflict [though to be fair possibly undeclared] between the parties.

Yes that's my understanding, all about context. Plus some say that Muslims are permitted to eat pork when their is no other choice but starving to death. Also It says in Surah al Baqarah, Chapter number 2, verse 219, "Say oh Mohammad, when they ask you concerning wine and intoxicants, say to them that there is benefit. But there is also harm. And the harm outweighs the benefit, so stay away from it"

And the base line of this means that they can do what they want should the need arise.

Sounds like a method of control with a get out clause for some to me.

What ever happened to, don't kill anyone and try to be nice?

Wait, that died the death when organised religion raised its ugly and duplicitous head didn't it.

[MAJIC]

He was buried as a "shahid", or martyr in Islamic tradition.

"This was something he always wanted," said Rusanee

I am all for granting these wana be martyrs their wishes

Martyrs with the beliefs of the insane!

Edited February 15, 2013 by MAJIC

[submaniac]

I'm sure you understand that with autonomy the Deep South would remain as Thai sovereign territory.

Ok, let's take this hypothetical further. Let's imagine that the Thai government does grant autonomy to the southern provinces while maintaining the area as a Thai protectorate region. What happen's then? And I mean what happens to the Buddhist population which is ethnically Thai? That's actually 30 percent of the population in the south. If an autonomous Muslim government is in power, what do you think will happen to the Buddhist Thais? I am not anti-Islam (I am anti radical Islam and anti terrorist) but historically speaking Islamic governments aren't known for being good at protecting the interests of non Muslims. In Iran there used to be a large population of Jews prior to ayatollah Khomeini. In Egypt befor Mubarak was overthrown non-Muslims were afforded protection. Now that Arab spring has happened there is a news story about a muslim being sentenced to death for converting to Christianity.

I don't think religion and government should ever mix. Not just Islam...I would be worried if Christian extremists (you know he kind that picket the unwraps of soldiers claiming that it is retribution for homosexuality) came to governmental power. The way it is now in the south is the way it should be. Yes it is centrally controlled by Bangkok government. But the government does not oppress religious belief. Like bkk does not outlaw Islam (eg they don't do what Myanmar did to he rohingya) and respect the religion. There are many examples of Muslim police and military generals. If you can find any examples of how the current or past governments are oppressing Islam I would love to see it.

Now if an Islamic government came to control in the south I doubt that the same treatment that the current Buddhist government gives to the Muslims would be reciprocated. All I can envision is that the Thai Buddhists would be driven from the land (which is exactly what is happening as the insurgents entire purpose is to drive out Thai Buddhists).

[simple1]

I'm sure you understand that with autonomy the Deep South would remain as Thai sovereign territory.

Ok, let's take this hypothetical further. Let's imagine that the Thai government does grant autonomy to the southern provinces while maintaining the area as a Thai protectorate region. What happen's then? And I mean what happens to the Buddhist population which is ethnically Thai? That's actually 30 percent of the population in the south. If an autonomous Muslim government is in power, what do you think will happen to the Buddhist Thais? I am not anti-Islam (I am anti radical Islam and anti terrorist) but historically speaking Islamic governments aren't known for being good at protecting the interests of non Muslims. In Iran there used to be a large population of Jews prior to ayatollah Khomeini. In Egypt befor Mubarak was overthrown non-Muslims were afforded protection. Now that Arab spring has happened there is a news story about a muslim being sentenced to death for converting to Christianity.

I don't think religion and government should ever mix. Not just Islam...I would be worried if Christian extremists (you know he kind that picket the unwraps of soldiers claiming that it is retribution for homosexuality) came to governmental power. The way it is now in the south is the way it should be. Yes it is centrally controlled by Bangkok government. But the government does not oppress religious belief. Like bkk does not outlaw Islam (eg they don't do what Myanmar did to he rohingya) and respect the religion. There are many examples of Muslim police and military generals. If you can find any examples of how the current or past governments are oppressing Islam I would love to see it.

Now if an Islamic government came to control in the south I doubt that the same treatment that the current Buddhist government gives to the Muslims would be reciprocated. All I can envision is that the Thai Buddhists would be driven from the land (which is exactly what is happening as the insurgents entire purpose is to drive out Thai Buddhists).

iI am no expert, but I understand with autonomy it would only empower local provincial government & they would still be bound by national central government policy such as remittance of an agreed percentage of tax funds, foreign relations, defence etc. In some countries that are transitioning from dictatorships to Islamic government (debatable if this is dictatorship in another guise), the majority of the population do not want the legal framework to be based upon sharia law. I am sure the Thai government would also not permit it. If ethic cleansing was commenced by provincial government I am sure Thai government forces would very forcibly step in.

[Colabamumbai]

6 year old daughter and a 17 month old son. He should have stuck to parenting. Didn't manage to do the soldier bit very well, now sucks as a dad. Pathetic what people sacrifice for religion.

Yes and American soldiers sacrafice for nothing. I give him credit.

[Thaddeus]

6 year old daughter and a 17 month old son. He should have stuck to parenting. Didn't manage to do the soldier bit very well, now sucks as a dad. Pathetic what people sacrifice for religion.

Yes and American soldiers sacrafice for nothing. I give him credit.

To the best of my knowledge American soldiers do not deliberately target unarmed teachers.

He was a terrorist, the only thing that is credit-worthy is that there are now 16 fewer of them.

[hellodolly]

This argument is usually based on "Taqiyya" which is taken by some to establish the principal that a Muslim is not required to be truthful to a non Muslim. The underlying principal is also seen within the text Reliance of the Traveller and entries in both the Qur'an and the Hadith.

It is though, in my view, an extreme reading and is further based upon the notion that there is a conflict [though to be fair possibly undeclared] between the parties.

Yes that's my understanding, all about context. Plus some say that Muslims are permitted to eat pork when their is no other choice but starving to death. Also It says in Surah al Baqarah, Chapter number 2, verse 219, "Say oh Mohammad, when they ask you concerning wine and intoxicants, say to them that there is benefit. But there is also harm. And the harm outweighs the benefit, so stay away from it"

And the base line of this means that they can do what they want should the need arise.

Sounds like a method of control with a get out clause for some to me.

What ever happened to, don't kill anyone and try to be nice?

Wait, that died the death when organised religion raised its ugly and duplicitous head didn't it.

I believe the statement kill the infidel sealed the deal.

[hellodolly]

I'm sure you understand that with autonomy the Deep South would remain as Thai sovereign territory.

Ok, let's take this hypothetical further. Let's imagine that the Thai government does grant autonomy to the southern provinces while maintaining the area as a Thai protectorate region. What happen's then? And I mean what happens to the Buddhist population which is ethnically Thai? That's actually 30 percent of the population in the south. If an autonomous Muslim government is in power, what do you think will happen to the Buddhist Thais? I am not anti-Islam (I am anti radical Islam and anti terrorist) but historically speaking Islamic governments aren't known for being good at protecting the interests of non Muslims. In Iran there used to be a large population of Jews prior to ayatollah Khomeini. In Egypt befor Mubarak was overthrown non-Muslims were afforded protection. Now that Arab spring has happened there is a news story about a muslim being sentenced to death for converting to Christianity.

I don't think religion and government should ever mix. Not just Islam...I would be worried if Christian extremists (you know he kind that picket the unwraps of soldiers claiming that it is retribution for homosexuality) came to governmental power. The way it is now in the south is the way it should be. Yes it is centrally controlled by Bangkok government. But the government does not oppress religious belief. Like bkk does not outlaw Islam (eg they don't do what Myanmar did to he rohingya) and respect the religion. There are many examples of Muslim police and military generals. If you can find any examples of how the current or past governments are oppressing Islam I would love to see it.

Now if an Islamic government came to control in the south I doubt that the same treatment that the current Buddhist government gives to the Muslims would be reciprocated. All I can envision is that the Thai Buddhists would be driven from the land (which is exactly what is happening as the insurgents entire purpose is to drive out Thai Buddhists).

Well stated.

As can be seen in the Arabic countries when the Islamic religion infiltrates the government they become even more intolerant of non Muslims.

as has been stated autonomy the Deep South would remain as Thai sovereign territory.

This is very true.

What is not stated is they would continue to try to become a separate nation. Islam no matter what they will try to tell people is not a tolerant religion. Not only do they want to convert all to their religion which in its self would be OK but they want to dominate them with there own law and also impose it on those who are not Muslims.

[hellodolly]

6 year old daughter and a 17 month old son. He should have stuck to parenting. Didn't manage to do the soldier bit very well, now sucks as a dad. Pathetic what people sacrifice for religion.

Yes and American soldiers sacrafice for nothing. I give him credit.

Do you not think your prejudice against America is tainting your view of a killer for religious reason with no regard to his children.

He received the credit he deserved. I wonder what he is going to feel like when he finds out there is not 50 virgins waiting for him.

[simple1]

Kill the infidels - Islam has been in existence for 1400 years & had has plenty of time to carry out the edict. Muslim rule at one time extended from the Middle East, to India, North Africa, Spain etc obviously did a very poor job of exterminating non believers.

So called Christian nations have done a lot better job in numbers over the centuries in killing & ethnic cleansing of non believers right up to the 1990s during the breakup of Yugoslavia

Edited February 16, 2013 by simple1

[simple1]

6 year old daughter and a 17 month old son. He should have stuck to parenting. Didn't manage to do the soldier bit very well, now sucks as a dad. Pathetic what people sacrifice for religion.

Yes and American soldiers sacrafice for nothing. I give him credit.

Do you not think your prejudice against America is tainting your view of a killer for religious reason with no regard to his children.

He received the credit he deserved. I wonder what he is going to feel like when he finds out there is not 50 virgins waiting for him.

Actually 72 virgins & just as ridiculous as Christians who believe in heaven & hell

[MAJIC]

This article explains very well why the Thai state will never win in the three southernmost provinces. A young man survives massacre by suffocation and dehydration perpetrated by the Thai military while many of his friends don't. No Thai officials are ever punished for the murders or even reprimanded. This turns the man into a highly motivated terrorist whose only desire in life is to kill Thai soldiers to avenge his comrades. Everyone knows that, if captured alive by the army they will be savagely tortured and then killed. So they prefer to be martyred and get the 86 virgins. The man is duly martyred to the relief of his wife and family and the community gives him the highest honours of a martyred jihadist. 17 terrorists, including 3 or 4 key leaders, have been neutralised by the military but the whole episode has inspired hundreds of young men to follow in their footsteps. The handful that are captured by the military subsequent to the attack reveal very little even under severe torture because they are organised into very small cells like the FLN were in Algeria when they fought the French, so that no one will give away much even with the acetylene burner applied to the testicles.

And so it goes on. It is unlikely that there will such ambitious full frontal assaults on well dug in army posts for a while but the improvised roadside bombs and ambushes will continue to gnaw away at the army and police, always provoking them into more attrocities that perpetuate local support for the terrorists. The war has been going on for over 100 years. It dies down for a few years and then flares up again violently under a new generation of terrorist leaders who have no connection with the previous generation and never lay claim to any of their attacks which makes them much harder to trace. Thailand is unlikely to win this ,war unless it either eliminates or deports the Malay Muslim population.

Actually officially it's 72 Virgins, but let's not argue!

[Pimay1]

This article explains very well why the Thai state will never win in the three southernmost provinces. A young man survives massacre by suffocation and dehydration perpetrated by the Thai military while many of his friends don't. No Thai officials are ever punished for the murders or even reprimanded. This turns the man into a highly motivated terrorist whose only desire in life is to kill Thai soldiers to avenge his comrades. Everyone knows that, if captured alive by the army they will be savagely tortured and then killed. So they prefer to be martyred and get the 86 virgins. The man is duly martyred to the relief of his wife and family and the community gives him the highest honours of a martyred jihadist. 17 terrorists, including 3 or 4 key leaders, have been neutralised by the military but the whole episode has inspired hundreds of young men to follow in their footsteps. The handful that are captured by the military subsequent to the attack reveal very little even under severe torture because they are organised into very small cells like the FLN were in Algeria when they fought the French, so that no one will give away much even with the acetylene burner applied to the testicles.

And so it goes on. It is unlikely that there will such ambitious full frontal assaults on well dug in army posts for a while but the improvised roadside bombs and ambushes will continue to gnaw away at the army and police, always provoking them into more attrocities that perpetuate local support for the terrorists. The war has been going on for over 100 years. It dies down for a few years and then flares up again violently under a new generation of terrorist leaders who have no connection with the previous generation and never lay claim to any of their attacks which makes them much harder to trace. Thailand is unlikely to win this ,war unless it either eliminates or deports the Malay Muslim population.

Actually officially it's 72 Virgins, but let's not argue!

I have often wondered after 72 days what to these idots believe is next. All 72 virgins are non-virgins.

[MAJIC]

This article explains very well why the Thai state will never win in the three southernmost provinces. A young man survives massacre by suffocation and dehydration perpetrated by the Thai military while many of his friends don't. No Thai officials are ever punished for the murders or even reprimanded. This turns the man into a highly motivated terrorist whose only desire in life is to kill Thai soldiers to avenge his comrades. Everyone knows that, if captured alive by the army they will be savagely tortured and then killed. So they prefer to be martyred and get the 86 virgins. The man is duly martyred to the relief of his wife and family and the community gives him the highest honours of a martyred jihadist. 17 terrorists, including 3 or 4 key leaders, have been neutralised by the military but the whole episode has inspired hundreds of young men to follow in their footsteps. The handful that are captured by the military subsequent to the attack reveal very little even under severe torture because they are organised into very small cells like the FLN were in Algeria when they fought the French, so that no one will give away much even with the acetylene burner applied to the testicles.

And so it goes on. It is unlikely that there will such ambitious full frontal assaults on well dug in army posts for a while but the improvised roadside bombs and ambushes will continue to gnaw away at the army and police, always provoking them into more attrocities that perpetuate local support for the terrorists. The war has been going on for over 100 years. It dies down for a few years and then flares up again violently under a new generation of terrorist leaders who have no connection with the previous generation and never lay claim to any of their attacks which makes them much harder to trace. Thailand is unlikely to win this ,war unless it either eliminates or deports the Malay Muslim population.

Actually officially it's 72 Virgins, but let's not argue!

I have often wondered after 72 days what to these idots believe is next. All 72 virgins are non-virgins.

err exactly, now you are applying logic

[barefoot1988]

the man was a survivor of the tak bai incident. brutally humiliated.

its a cycle, and takes a open heart to end it.

“An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind”

M. K. Gandhi

Edited February 17, 2013 by barefoot1988

[OzMick]

So what does the supposedly desired autonomy involve? Take a look at the nearby and related "liberal" muslim country, Malaysia.

Citizens are required to carry ID which states their religion, decided by that of their parents. Change from any other religion to muslim is allowable, change FROM muslim is forbidden. To be fair, one case was allowed some years after the applicant died - generous that.

Marriage restrictions outside their faith for women are enforced. There is a famous case of a Malaysian woman refused permission to marry a non-muslim or to change her faith.

As one of the gripes in the south is the number of muslim women marrying/consorting with buddhist soldiers (regarded much like theft of property), would it be surprising if marriage and faith change restriction were part of their aims?

[simple1]

So what does the supposedly desired autonomy involve? Take a look at the nearby and related "liberal" muslim country, Malaysia.

Citizens are required to carry ID which states their religion, decided by that of their parents. Change from any other religion to muslim is allowable, change FROM muslim is forbidden. To be fair, one case was allowed some years after the applicant died - generous that.

Marriage restrictions outside their faith for women are enforced. There is a famous case of a Malaysian woman refused permission to marry a non-muslim or to change her faith.

As one of the gripes in the south is the number of muslim women marrying/consorting with buddhist soldiers (regarded much like theft of property), would it be surprising if marriage and faith change restriction were part of their aims?

Thai ID cards also state the holders religion.

If you believe the media the challenge is that the four main separatist movements have not declared their leaders so that autonomy negotiations can be held. In any case the military have publicly declared they do not support this notion, contrary to some senior politicians saying they wish to commence talks to do so.

Autonomy would mean the Deep South provinces would be self governing, but national matters such as defence, foreign relations, constitution, criminal code etc would remain the domain of central government. Just about guarantee central government would not agree to Sharia Law being implemented across the board for the provinces. Question mark whether they would permit for those who identified themselves as followers of the Islamic faith. However I would assume that as in the case of Malaysia and Indonesia the majority do not support the legal system being based upon Sharia Law - prefer a secular State.

[submaniac]

^^

Simple1, don't take this as an insult because it is not meant to be, but I think you are being naive about the reality. Even if autonomy is granted per the terms you are suggesting, I don't think it will work. Great, regional autonomy, under central control of Bangkok and no implementation of Sharia law. What I see happening is that they will still fight UNTIL SHARIA LAW IS implemented. To the insurgents, it is a holy war to implement a society according to (their misguided understanding of) what the Q'uran says. Anything less than that, and they won't stop. And I do recognize that 99% of Muslims are peace loving and law abiding. It's the 1% that will still keep on fighting until the remaining 99% of Muslims lives under what 1%'s understanding of Islam.

[simple1]

^^

Simple1, don't take this as an insult because it is not meant to be, but I think you are being naive about the reality. Even if autonomy is granted per the terms you are suggesting, I don't think it will work. Great, regional autonomy, under central control of Bangkok and no implementation of Sharia law. What I see happening is that they will still fight UNTIL SHARIA LAW IS implemented. To the insurgents, it is a holy war to implement a society according to (their misguided understanding of) what the Q'uran says. Anything less than that, and they won't stop. And I do recognize that 99% of Muslims are peace loving and law abiding. It's the 1% that will still keep on fighting until the remaining 99% of Muslims lives under what 1%'s understanding of Islam.

I realise you will probably disagree with me, but I do not see the situation as a religious conflict. Primarily a fight for power that is muddied by many peripheral killings associated with drugs and smuggling

If autonomy were granted, in a sense they would be starting with a fresh canvas & hopefully the overwhelming large percentage of moderates in the population would eventually overcome any Islamic extremists elements. Long term peace in the region may be a long time coming, but better to commence a path forward, rather than constantly recycling the same policies & attitudes that are getting no traction. The alternative is what?

[smedly]

The alternative is abiding by the law of the land which they reside which offers considerable choice and freedom to live as they choose or move to a muslim country were they will be less tolerated - yes less tolerated, Malaysia wouldn't put up with this behavior why should Thailand

and I agree this is all about power and money as with many other conflicts using the excuse of religeous diversion and ethnic difference

Thailand needs to decide which way to go with this - either submit and give them what they want using a local referendum (consideration for the none muslims must be primary) or come down heavy, sitting on the fence doen't work

[submaniac]

Long term peace in the region may be a long time coming, but better to commence a path forward, rather than constantly recycling the same policies & attitudes that are getting no traction. The alternative is what?

The alternative, as Smedly has stated, would be serious military interdiction. Marshall law, crack down militarily until the extremists are nutralized.

When you say peace may be long term in coming and it's better than recycling previous policies...my thoughts are, we DID have peace for a very long time. My family is originally from the South, and I went there when I was growing up. Back in the 1980's and 1990's, there was no insurgency, no violence...everyone got along and lived in peace. The insurgency is a fairly new thing. Let's impose some marshall law, find these people and get rid of them. Then let's get it back to where it was before.

[simple1]

Long term peace in the region may be a long time coming, but better to commence a path forward, rather than constantly recycling the same policies & attitudes that are getting no traction. The alternative is what?

The alternative, as Smedly has stated, would be serious military interdiction. Marshall law, crack down militarily until the extremists are nutralized.

When you say peace may be long term in coming and it's better than recycling previous policies...my thoughts are, we DID have peace for a very long time. My family is originally from the South, and I went there when I was growing up. Back in the 1980's and 1990's, there was no insurgency, no violence...everyone got along and lived in peace. The insurgency is a fairly new thing. Let's impose some marshall law, find these people and get rid of them. Then let's get it back to where it was before.

Interested in your thoughts on why the conflict reenergised around 2000/2001. In the meantime a quote from a source below talking to attempts for renewal of peace talks.

Analysts monitoring the conflict say the escalation in violent attacks this year suggest the extra funds plus a doubling of the military presence in the area since 2007 had achieved little.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/08/16/uk-thailand-politics-south-idUKBRE87F0DY20120816