Driving In/around Pattaya

[bdenner]

Tell us, Gburns57au, about all those considerate Thai drivers you encounter on the road perchance

A lot of them driving bahtbusses, cement trucks, busses perchance?

Do we really need another thread about how bad the Thais drive in their own country compared to the way farangs drive in their own country. How many threads do we need to rehash the same old stories....

I'm down here for a few days having just driven down from Udon Thani. The car has not left the hotel since we arrived. My observation, from the back of baht busses, is that most of the idiots are FARANG on moterbikes. At least the Thais seem to know how to handle the 'orginised chaos'. Edited March 9, 2006 by bdenner

[macam]

My first post on this forum so let me stat by saying hello everyone.

I’ve been driving here (Pattaya) for some four years now and up to now I have not had an accident with anything moving but plenty on near misses. I find the Thai style of driving very aggressive there is no regimental way of driving as in UK or Australia for that matter but in the end of the day this is Thailand and you have to adopt their way of driving or you wont get anywhere, once you get used to it I find it very easy and you should always expect the unexpected. With accidents most mobile phones have a camera these days so if you have one take photos of the bike/car and the persons involved if you don’t then it’s down to you how you handle it.

macam

[Artisan]

My first post on this forum so let me stat by saying hello everyone.

I’ve been driving here (Pattaya) for some four years now and up to now I have not had an accident with anything moving but plenty on near misses. I find the Thai style of driving very aggressive there is no regimental way of driving as in UK or Australia for that matter but in the end of the day this is Thailand and you have to adopt their way of driving or you wont get anywhere, once you get used to it I find it very easy and you should always expect the unexpected. With accidents most mobile phones have a camera these days so if you have one take photos of the bike/car and the persons involved if you don’t then it’s down to you how you handle it.

macam

Hello Macam. The difference between driving in Thailand and driving in the UK, Australia and, probably, the USA is that, for most of the time, you know what the other driver is going to do.......because drivers follow a code; in the UK it's called the Highway Code. There is also the law and penalties for breaking the law, which is enforced rigidly, are high. So, these factors play a role in keeping the road death toll low. In Thailand neither of these factors are present, although there is a booklet called "Driver's Handbook" available in Thai and in English from the Road Traffic Office. I've yet to meet a Thai who has read this booklet or even knows of it's existence. And why should they when even licences, insurance cover and vehicle naintenance are deemed unneccessary? It's an attitude of mind and we know the attitude of mind of the average Thai person...'mai pen lai', 'sanuk sanan', 'no plombem'......everything must be fun, free and easy. As I've said before, it's all about being responsible, not only for yourself, but for others too. I disagree strongly with anyone who says that you have to adopt the driving style of the locals to avoid accidents...it's illogical.

Yes, it's important to always expect the unexpected...that's what we call "defensive driving" which is NOT aggressive driving.

[Mobi]

My first post on this forum so let me stat by saying hello everyone.

I’ve been driving here (Pattaya) for some four years now and up to now I have not had an accident with anything moving but plenty on near misses. I find the Thai style of driving very aggressive there is no regimental way of driving as in UK or Australia for that matter but in the end of the day this is Thailand and you have to adopt their way of driving or you wont get anywhere, once you get used to it I find it very easy and you should always expect the unexpected. With accidents most mobile phones have a camera these days so if you have one take photos of the bike/car and the persons involved if you don’t then it’s down to you how you handle it.

macam

Just a thought.. and to stir the debate up a bit... you are quite right Macam, Thais do drive aggressively, and so do I when I'm in Thailand. However, there is a difference between driving aggressively, and driving dangerously. Many Thai drivers are absolutely fine, but I'd wager there's a much higher percentage of dangerous drivers on Thai roads than on your average UK or American roads. A lot of this is down to ignorance - no proper driving lessons or instruction and a farce of a driving test that doesn't weed out the really bad drivers. My current wife has been driving around for 2 years, having had lesssons and passed the test, and she still can't reverse or park properly.

Aggressive driving works in Thailand because, by large, there is no road rage here (although it is starting to creep into Bangkok). Farangs are much more subject to road rage, and aggressive driving does not go down too all well on the highways of England - witness several road rage murders in recent years.

Not much horn tooting here either, thank God, although I once had a driver who blasted his horn at everything that moved.!

Any comments Mr Burns?

[Maigo6]

Hello Macam. The difference between driving in Thailand and driving in the UK, Australia and, probably, the USA is that, for most of the time, you know what the other driver is going to do.......because drivers follow a code; in the UK it's called the Highway Code. There is also the law and penalties for breaking the law, which is enforced rigidly, are high. So, these factors play a role in keeping the road death toll low.

So as there are over 40,000 people a year Killed on the roads in USA, and the people obey the laws and there are very strict enforcements, what does that say about drivers in USA ?

Just imagine how many would die if it was as relaxed as Thailand.

[Artisan]

So as there are over 40,000 people a year Killed on the roads in USA, and the people obey the laws and there are very strict enforcements, what does that say about drivers in USA ?

Just imagine how many would die if it was as relaxed as Thailand.

Simply that there are more people, more drivers and a lot more cars in the USA.....and, therefore, a greater potential for accidents and deaths. I thought that would be obvious.

Edited March 9, 2006 by Artisan

[Maigo6]

Simply that there are more people, more drivers and a lot more cars in the USA.....and, therefore, a greater potential for accidents and deaths. I thought that would be obvious.

You say they obey the laws of the road and the roads are well Policed and the penalties are high for breaking the laws. I would imagine the Ratio of Motorcyle riders in Thailand is far far more than USA.

70% of all fatalities in Thailands accidents are Motorcycle related.

So how come in USA 40,000 + will die this year as they do every other year on the well policed, well maintained roads that are used by people who stick to the highway code, are Thai people to blame?

Why is it western people have a superior attitude when it comes to Asians? The days of colonialism are over my friend, Asia is on the rise and the West is on the way down. Every dog has it's day, the Western powers will go the same way as the Egyptians , Greeks , Romans and The once Great British Empire, all now gone except in history books.

In 20 years time hoardes of Chinese will be hiring cars in UK and bitching about how useless UK drivers are, lets face it guys, judging by the state of western countries, what the he-ll do you have to feel superior about?

If Thailands roads are so dangerous, get some of that fat off by walking.

[Mobi]

70% of all fatalities in Thailands accidents are Motorcycle related.

and who hits most of the motorcycles? Cars, buses and trucks.

Now I accpet there's a lot of mad motorcylclusts on the road, but very often they are the innocent victims in road accidents. I know of 2 deaths of motorcyclists where, according to eye witnesses and police reports, they were competely innocent - just mowed down by a car or a truck. I have personally been hit by a bus and sent flying through the air when my bike was stationery at a red light. Many Thai drivers in cars, trucks and buses behave as though motorcyclists just don't exists - they will pull out in front of them, they will run them off the road and generally behave in a totally criminal fashion. We have all seen it so many times.

So I think its a simplification so say Thailand's high accident rate is due to the numeber of motorbikes. All the other vehicles, with their bad drivers, also have a lot to do with it, one way or another.

You're a bit bitter and twisted aren't you Maig06? Maybe you should drown your sorrows with gburns57au.

Cheer up, its only a debate

[Artisan]

Why is it western people have a superior attitude when it comes to Asians? The days of colonialism are over my friend, Asia is on the rise and the West is on the way down. Every dog has it's day, the Western powers will go the same way as the Egyptians , Greeks , Romans and The once Great British Empire, all now gone except in history books.

In 20 years time hoardes of Chinese will be hiring cars in UK and bitching about how useless UK drivers are, lets face it guys, judging by the state of western countries, what the he-ll do you have to feel superior about?

Maigo, that was a rant wasn't it.

[Maigo6]

another.

You're a bit bitter and twisted aren't you Maig06?

Haha, you're a funny guy.

Just read the constant moaning by Farangs that have a choice to remain in Thailand or leave, therein lies some very Bitter and twisted people.

Too old to have fun, too young to die, don't worry people, not long to wait, then when you are on your deathbeds, you will wonder why the he-ll you spent so much time bitching about life instead of enjoying it.

Be thankful that Thai people are not like you miserable people. v

[Artisan]

You're a bit bitter and twisted aren't you Maig06? Maybe you should drown your sorrows with gburns57au.

Cheer up, its only a debate

You should see the latest posting by Maigo06 in the thread "Songkhran in Pattaya". WOW!!!

Songkhran in Pattaya by Maigo06

[Maigo6]

You're a bit bitter and twisted aren't you Maig06? Maybe you should drown your sorrows with gburns57au.

Cheer up, its only a debate

You should see the latest posting by Maigo06 in the thread "Songkhran in Pattaya". WOW!!!

Songkhran in Pattaya by Maigo06

Another insightful and honest post, no doubt to be slammed by the very people to who recognise themselves in my post.

[gburns57au]

As stated before, it's the sheer volume of Motorcycles that inflates the figures.

Put that volume of Motorcycles on UK's roads and watch the death toll skyrocket.

I can't see how people can brand a whole Nation as being full of Bad drivers, that's not the case, it's individuals that are driving, not the whole population.

It's just another of the ' Them and Us ' attitudes by a minority group, ie Farangs. Yes there are bad drivers in Thailand, there are also bad drivers in other countries.

If a guy pulls out on you in UK, what do you think, all UK drivers are useless? No, because you may well be from UK yourself, and as Farangs, you must be good right?

When a Thai person pulls out on you in Thailand, you state that ALL Thai drivers are useless.

Typical farang attitude, very narrow minded.

Try walking in future, I'm sure you can do with losing the weight, cos ALL Farangs are fat, right? ( Do you see my point ? )

Has my nomination for post of the week......

My first post on this forum so let me stat by saying hello everyone.

I’ve been driving here (Pattaya) for some four years now and up to now I have not had an accident with anything moving but plenty on near misses. I find the Thai style of driving very aggressive there is no regimental way of driving as in UK or Australia for that matter but in the end of the day this is Thailand and you have to adopt their way of driving or you wont get anywhere, once you get used to it I find it very easy and you should always expect the unexpected. With accidents most mobile phones have a camera these days so if you have one take photos of the bike/car and the persons involved if you don’t then it’s down to you how you handle it.

macam

Just a thought.. and to stir the debate up a bit... you are quite right Macam, Thais do drive aggressively, and so do I when I'm in Thailand. However, there is a difference between driving aggressively, and driving dangerously. Many Thai drivers are absolutely fine, but I'd wager there's a much higher percentage of dangerous drivers on Thai roads than on your average UK or American roads. A lot of this is down to ignorance - no proper driving lessons or instruction and a farce of a driving test that doesn't weed out the really bad drivers. My current wife has been driving around for 2 years, having had lesssons and passed the test, and she still can't reverse or park properly.

Aggressive driving works in Thailand because, by large, there is no road rage here (although it is starting to creep into Bangkok). Farangs are much more subject to road rage, and aggressive driving does not go down too all well on the highways of England - witness several road rage murders in recent years.

Not much horn tooting here either, thank God, although I once had a driver who blasted his horn at everything that moved.!

Any comments Mr Burns?

Yeah.....did your horn eventually wear out.????

Edited March 9, 2006 by gburns57au

[Mobi]

......As stated before, it's the sheer volume of Motorcycles that inflates the figures.

Try walking in future, I'm sure you can do with losing the weight, cos ALL Farangs are fat, right? ( Do you see my point ? )

........Has my nomination for post of the week......

Wondered when you two were going to do a double act

[Maigo6]

Wondered when you two were going to do a double act

Hehe,

Had to come didn't it.

Want to make it a 3some Mobi dick?

[gburns57au]

It seems that everyone really has started to agree....

In Thailand you cannot apply the driving practices of your own country...you have to adapt to the way the Thai way of driving...tootling along at 60kmh while admiring the scenery will get you killed in Thailand.

People have said Thai drivers are aggressive....but they are not aggressive...as mentioned, road rage is not a big problem....sure they will slowly merge into the gap in front of you where there is not enough room with just a quick flick on the indicator....Sure they ride the centre line....sure they will try and squeeze past where this not enough room. But where is the aggression???

The reason driving in Thailand scares a lot of farangs is because the farang who was brought up on the highway code...where everybody follows the rules religiously, doesnt have the defensive driving skills required in Thailand. Could it be that most accidents in the UK say (only an example) happens when something outside of the norm happens...The trained and follow the rules driver doesnt know how to react to this because he doesnt have the defensive skills to handle it. Most of them cant read the road ahead or behind. well not at the same time anyways....

......As stated before, it's the sheer volume of Motorcycles that inflates the figures.

Try walking in future, I'm sure you can do with losing the weight, cos ALL Farangs are fat, right? ( Do you see my point ? )

........Has my nomination for post of the week......

Wondered when you two were going to do a double act

You musta missed the second part of post 43......

[Mobi]

Wondered when you two were going to do a double act

Hehe,

Had to come didn't it.

Want to make it a 3some Mobi dick?

Thanks but no thanks Aussie burnup

I'll stick to my own whingeing kind - or, as we say in civilised society - I prefer to be amongst those of us who are skilled in offering reasoned constructive critiques.

[gburns57au]

Wondered when you two were going to do a double act

Hehe,

Had to come didn't it.

Want to make it a 3some Mobi dick?

Thanks but no thanks Aussie burnup

I'll stick to my own whingeing kind - or, as we say in civilised society - I prefer to be amongst those of us who are skilled in offering reasoned constructive critiques.

Was burnup a reference to me ???

Just wondering cos it wasnt my post you answered...

[Mobi]

It seems that everyone really has started to agree....

In Thailand you cannot apply the driving practices of your own country...you have to adapt to the way the Thai way of driving...tootling along at 60kmh while admiring the scenery will get you killed in Thailand.

Now I know you're taking the piss - or you've never driven outside of Bangkok. Half the bloody vehicles on the road tootle along at 60 kmp, and the other half drive like maniacs. OK, slight exageration, but there is as much problem with 'tootlers' as there is with speeders. Many accidents are caused by frustrated drivers trying to overtake the tootlers on single lane roads, and often on blind bends.

BTW when you reach my advanced age, you sometimes get confused as to who is speaking to you (or in this case writing). But with your double act it doesn't really matter. What the heck - I'm off to bed. With the wife

[gburns57au]

Now I know you're taking the piss - or you've never driven outside of Bangkok. Half the bloody vehicles on the road tootle along at 60 kmp, and the other half drive like maniacs. OK, slight exageration, but there is as much problem with 'tootlers' as there is with speeders. Many accidents are caused by frustrated drivers trying to overtake the tootlers on single lane roads, and often on blind bends.

Oh dear.....That sounds like most of the cities I have been too....guess its not such a Thai thing after all.

BTW when you reach my advanced age, you sometimes get confused as to who is speaking to you (or in this case writing).

At your advanced age do you also get confused when driving....especially when they dont drive the same as your good self ???

But with your double act it doesn't really matter. What the heck - I'm off to bed.

So 2 guys agree against you and it is a double act....yet with you and those who agree with you, are what????....a three ring circus ????

With the wife

And this point is what ???

Edited March 10, 2006 by gburns57au

[newns.m]

Now I know you're taking the piss - or you've never driven outside of Bangkok. Half the bloody vehicles on the road tootle along at 60 kmp, and the other half drive like maniacs. OK, slight exageration, but there is as much problem with 'tootlers' as there is with speeders. Many accidents are caused by frustrated drivers trying to overtake the tootlers on single lane roads, and often on blind bends.

Oh dear.....That sounds like most of the cities I have been too....guess its not such a Thai thing after all.

BTW when you reach my advanced age, you sometimes get confused as to who is speaking to you (or in this case writing).

At your advanced age do you also get confused when driving....especially when they dont drive the same as your good self ???

But with your double act it doesn't really matter. What the heck - I'm off to bed.

So 2 guys agree against you and it is a double act....yet with you and those who agree with you, are what????....a three ring circus ????

With the wife

And this point is what ???

Look what you started Simbo?

I would like to suggest that you all need to get out more,but on reflection,it may be too dangerous,what with all those nutty Thai drivers and wound up Ex-Pat road ragers!

[Mobi]

Now I know you're taking the piss - or you've never driven outside of Bangkok. Half the bloody vehicles on the road tootle along at 60 kmp, and the other half drive like maniacs. OK, slight exageration, but there is as much problem with 'tootlers' as there is with speeders. Many accidents are caused by frustrated drivers trying to overtake the tootlers on single lane roads, and often on blind bends.

Oh dear.....That sounds like most of the cities I have been too....guess its not such a Thai thing after all.

Now here's a U-Turn if ever there was one! You said and I quote:

"you have to adapt to the way the Thai way of driving...tootling along at 60kmh while admiring the scenery will get you killed in Thailand."

Now you say : "guess its not such a Thai thing after all"

Well Aussie Burnup (I Think I've got the right one this time), who's the one getting confused now?. About par for the course for Antipodeans.

BTW when you reach my advanced age, you sometimes get confused as to who is speaking to you (or in this case writing).

At your advanced age do you also get confused when driving....especially when they dont drive the same as your good self ???

Absolutely, no one drives as good as me

But with your double act it doesn't really matter. What the heck - I'm off to bed.

So 2 guys agree against you and it is a double act....yet with you and those who agree with you, are what????....a three ring circus ????

Probably, no animal acts though, might get arrested.

With the wife

And this point is what ???

A lot more fun than arguing with you

I'll wrap this up now and let you have the fianal word. I'm sure it'll do your ego a power of good.

Edited March 11, 2006 by Mobi D'Ark

[wilko]

There are some civilised countries that have a worse death toll than Thailand..per head of population.

would you care to elucidate espially on "civilised" and then on which countries you actually mean?

If you want to drive safely in Thailand just repeat to yourself

"I'm in a boat..I'm in a boat" - it works.....!?!?!

Edited March 11, 2006 by wilko

[Simbo]

Now I know you're taking the piss - or you've never driven outside of Bangkok. Half the bloody vehicles on the road tootle along at 60 kmp, and the other half drive like maniacs. OK, slight exageration, but there is as much problem with 'tootlers' as there is with speeders. Many accidents are caused by frustrated drivers trying to overtake the tootlers on single lane roads, and often on blind bends.

Oh dear.....That sounds like most of the cities I have been too....guess its not such a Thai thing after all.

BTW when you reach my advanced age, you sometimes get confused as to who is speaking to you (or in this case writing).

At your advanced age do you also get confused when driving....especially when they dont drive the same as your good self ???

But with your double act it doesn't really matter. What the heck - I'm off to bed.

So 2 guys agree against you and it is a double act....yet with you and those who agree with you, are what????....a three ring circus ????

With the wife

And this point is what ???

Look what you started Simbo?

I would like to suggest that you all need to get out more,but on reflection,it may be too dangerous,what with all those nutty Thai drivers and wound up Ex-Pat road ragers!

I know, I know. I'm biting my nails as to what's coming next. Will this be the start of 'post rage' ?

[gburns57au]

Oh dear.....That sounds like most of the cities I have been too....guess its not such a Thai thing after all.

Now here's a U-Turn if ever there was one! You said and I quote:

"you have to adapt to the way the Thai way of driving...tootling along at 60kmh while admiring the scenery will get you killed in Thailand."

Now you say : "guess its not such a Thai thing after all"

Well Aussie Burnup (I Think I've got the right one this time), who's the one getting confused now?. About par for the course for Antipodeans.

I'll wrap this up now and let you have the fianal word. I'm sure it'll do your ego a power of good.

Hardly a U turn.....you guys were all inferring that Thais the worst drivers....My point in making that comment was that they are no worse or better than drivers in most of the cities I have been to...totally consistant with my previous comments.

Go on....have another word or two....you know you want to......

Look what you started Simbo?

I would like to suggest that you all need to get out more,but on reflection,it may be too dangerous,what with all those nutty Thai drivers and wound up Ex-Pat road ragers!

I know, I know. I'm biting my nails as to what's coming next. Will this be the start of 'post rage' ?

I think that Mobi and I would both agree that there is no rage.....just a differing of opinion and a few good natured jibes....

[Mobi]

Oh dear.....That sounds like most of the cities I have been too....guess its not such a Thai thing after all.

Now here's a U-Turn if ever there was one! You said and I quote:

"you have to adapt to the way the Thai way of driving...tootling along at 60kmh while admiring the scenery will get you killed in Thailand."

Now you say : "guess its not such a Thai thing after all"

Well Aussie Burnup (I Think I've got the right one this time), who's the one getting confused now?. About par for the course for Antipodeans.

I'll wrap this up now and let you have the fianal word. I'm sure it'll do your ego a power of good.

Hardly a U turn.....you guys were all inferring that Thais the worst drivers....My point in making that comment was that they are no worse or better than drivers in most of the cities I have been to...totally consistant with my previous comments.

Go on....have another word or two....you know you want to......

Look what you started Simbo?

I would like to suggest that you all need to get out more,but on reflection,it may be too dangerous,what with all those nutty Thai drivers and wound up Ex-Pat road ragers!

I know, I know. I'm biting my nails as to what's coming next. Will this be the start of 'post rage' ?

I think that Mobi and I would both agree that there is no rage.....just a differing of opinion and a few good natured jibes....

No Comment, I've retired.

(from this thread)

Look forward to renewing our jousting at another time on another thread

Edited March 11, 2006 by Mobi D'Ark

[Pattaya_Fox]

Well as a late comer to this thread I have just got to say that having nearly been hit a couple of times over the last few days by Thai drivers whilst trying to cross the road ( I was completely sober honest) and watching the way they drive i.e. (I am on or in a machine which has an engine and I am king of the road mentality) I thank my lucky stars that I took the decision many years ago not to drive in Thailand anymore.

The problem with the Thai drivers...god bless them, as they do not know anything different, simply because they have not been taught anything different is that the pedestrian is an underling because he has no horse power to fight back with.

It seems that once a Thai is in charge of his/her magnificent charger then getting from A to B in the fastest possible time and taking as many risks as is necessary in order to achieve that feat is the norm.

Care and consideration do not even come into the equasion.....more a formula 1/ stock car race attitude prevails......you know what I mean....speeding up when they see you....riding and driving on the wrong side of the road, cutting up other vehicles...undertaking where its impossible....and so it goes on.

Of course you can equate the driving standard to other developing countries...Have you ever ducked and dived whilst driving in Bali?...Thats another brain shuddering experience.

Of course we have to compare this style of driving to the more civilised and normal and safer driving styles such as in the western countries after all why is Thailand trying to copy the west in many other things whilst its development continues these days....because it is trying to find its way

forward.

So we should compare and criticise where necessary and in this case make sure we have eyes in the back of our head

[jdinasia]

Simply that there are more people, more drivers and a lot more cars in the USA.....and, therefore, a greater potential for accidents and deaths. I thought that would be obvious.

You say they obey the laws of the road and the roads are well Policed and the penalties are high for breaking the laws. I would imagine the Ratio of Motorcyle riders in Thailand is far far more than USA.

70% of all fatalities in Thailands accidents are Motorcycle related.

So how come in USA 40,000 + will die this year as they do every other year on the well policed, well maintained roads that are used by people who stick to the highway code, are Thai people to blame?

USA Road accident rates ... 3x the number of vehicles per capita? 6 times the number of kilometers traveled per vehicle per year? Average speed of legal travel much higher than Thailand too ... (do people just not think?)

Edited March 11, 2006 by jdinasia

[Maigo6]

(do people just not think?)

You referring to the 40,000 + that will die on US roads this year ?

[chuckd]

Just an observation from somebody that has driven all over the world, including the US, South America, UK, Continental Europe, Egypt, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Dubai, Bahrain and good old Thailand, to name just a few.

The absolute worst drivers I have ever encountered are in Pattaya. They have little road sense, very few road manners and fail to follow what few rules of the road are in effect. I have had two accidents in Pattaya. One my fault when I ran into the back of a pickup that stopped suddenly and the other when a motorcycle ran into the side of my car when I was stopped at a stop sign. This was also judged to be my fault since I happened to be there when she wanted to turn.

I currently drive in Riyadh, which is BKK on steroids. It is nothing to be driving in the fast lane at 160 and get passed by a Ferrari, and this is in the afternoon traffic. I don't enjoy this traffic here but at least you know what the rules are and most everybody plays by them. Not so in Pattaya.

Flame away but these are my observations based on over 50 years of driving and almost 20 of those years driving in Thailand.