Pongsapat Widens Lead Against Sukhumbhand In Bangkok Governor's Election

[jayboy]

Even before the PTP candidate has won, preparations are well under way by all the PTP / red shirt supporters on the forum, to brush under the carpet all the derisory comments made about the people of Bangkok, all of the broad sweeping generalizations about the rich and selfish middle class that live there who are set on keeping the lower classes down and in their place, all of dismissive remarks about how the Democrats winning Bangkok means very little, to be swiftly replaced with proclamations about how significant a PTP victory in Bangkok will be, about how telling it is that educated and smart Thais, apparently no longer evil people, vote PTP.

Of course if PTP candidate doesn't win, it'll be straight back to all of the derisory stuff...

Well I suppose I fall into the category of forum member you have in mind.Personally I would be ashamed to have written such mindless stuff and I suspect in your heart of hearts rather regret it.By the way what exactly are these "preparations well under way" you talk about ?

No, i didn't particularly have you in mind, although it is fair to say you certainly are one of those who enjoys making sweeping derisory generalizations about certain significant segments of the Thai population, particularly certain segments within Bangkok. Perhaps you should consider first what you have to be ashamed of writing, before worrying about other people..

Anyway, the preparations i speak of, are those being made by red sympathizers who having spent the last several years speaking with utter disdain for many Bangkokians whom they consider, as repeatedly expressed on here, to be uncaring evil rich middle and upper class Chinese elites. Now, as they sniff a possible victory coming their way in the capital city, they prepare to do a complete about turn, and welcome these "evil" people into "their fold"; to make the switch from dismissing these people's views and their votes as unimportant and unrepresentative, to proclaiming and celebrating these people's perceived views and these people's votes as being of great significance. Out of the window, and hopefully quickly forgotten, will been thrown comments like just because the people of Bangkok are educated, doesn't mean they are smart, to be swiftly replaced by, if educated Thai people support PTP, there you go then, PTP really must be doing a good job, because those educated people really know a thing or two.

You simply repeat the substance of your earlier post without addressing any of my detailed responses.I note you also duck the question of red sympathisers making preparations - what preparations? Perhaps equally you talk of people being brought into the fold ,ignoring the reality that those opposed to PTP will vote for other candidates.

I'm sorry but this really won't do.I recognise your integrity but you should try to be more intellectually coherent.I had hoped this might be a productive discussion but that requires some give and take.

Incidentally I don't recall describing any group as evil. though if pressed I might make an exception of certain senior military officers.As to the Sino Thai urban middle class. yes certainly there are some myopic and fearful people ( who have cast their lot in with an unelected elite that in truth cares no more for ordinary jek than Isaan rice farmers ) - but certainly not evil.

[rixalex]

What I do know is that a great many people have come around to the PTP. I saw it in Hua Hin in January at a reception where the well heeled were doing the best to ingratiate themselves with some government ministers.

Maybe, maybe not, but personally, i wouldn't read anything whatsoever into "well-heeled persons doing their best to ingratiate themselves with some government ministers".

I observe pretty much everyone in my neighbourhood, well heeled or otherwise, doing all they can to ingratiate themselves with several policeman who live in the area, and i can assure you, it is not done because they are in any way respected or liked, but because of the power they wield. Government ministers enjoy the same deference to the power of ten.... all the time they are in power that is.

[dcutman]

there hasn't been one corruption scandal associated with the current administration.

And yet, the government you ridicule and denigrate, hasn't become mired in allegations of profiteering or kickbacks.

My god Gk what planet have you been living on for the last 18 months?!!! What ever it is that would be causing these delusions, please seek medical help ASAP, as in, go to the hospital right now.

Ok, Please list the corruption scandals. The police building affair was a legacy of the Democrat administration. It was the incumbent Democrat governor that is mired in the issue of the BTS servicing contract shenanigans. It is the military and southern government officials that are tainted by the Rohingya exploitation, so please do tell me about what big corruption case has occurred under the Yingluck administration.

I am not going to waste a lot of time here, because you and a few others are so "willfully ignorant" and you will defend your beloved Puppet PM like a Mongrel defending food.

So go ahead and defend away.

http://www.thaivisa....d-in-graft-dsi/

http://www.thaivisa....cheme-thailand/

http://www.thaivisa....urb-corruption/

http://www.nationmul...w-30200176.html

http://www.thaivisa....iasco-thailand/

http://news.voicetv....lish/30856.html

There is a short list for you GK and the other defenders of the Puppet Princess Yingluck.

None of the cases you cite are a demonstration of the current administration's corruption that you allege.

None of the examples you provide even comes close to the multipole serious scandals that characterized the Abhisit regime.

Look at the cases you cite;

1. Flood relief graft in Bangkok: Sorry, but no one in the government was directly implicated. Yes there was most likely profiteering. However, it was done at the local level.

2. The finance minister says there are reports of corruption in the rice pledging scheme. Ok. That is an indication that the government takes the situation seriously, not that the PM or her ministers is implicated. The involved parties are alleged to be investors and local officials.

3. See No. 2. Again no direct implication of the government as profiteering.

4. Chalerm's comment on the common practice of the BiB accepting gifts. In case you missed it, Chalerm is not accused of taking a gift or a bribe. I don't think the police should take the gifts, but this is how it is in Thailand and SE Asia. The item you reference illustrates a social practice and not the Yingluck administration's impropriety.

5. You really are getting desperate on this one. The commentator from the Nation, an acknowledged opponent of the popularly elected government is trying to spread the blame to detract away from the Democrat's mishandling of the program. The program itself wasn't bad as the polcie needed new facilities. It was the administration of the program under the Democrats that bungled the program. The PTP had no say in the administration of the funds. The commentator even acknowledges the following;

Late in 2008 the Democrats grabbed power via a vote in the House. They decided to implement the former government's plan because they also wanted the police on their side.In 2009, the Abhisit Vejjajiva government approved a Bt6.6-billion budget for the rebuilding scheme.

Don't blame PM Yingluck because the Democrats didn't safeguard the program.

6. And your crowning glory is some trash talk to dredge up the meeting the PM had in a public venue. First she was accused of having a awdry sex affair and now you try and use this as evidence of corruption. The inquiry showed nothing untoward occurred. The PM regularly meets with business people. The person making the allegation had an acknowledged grudge against the PM.

Try as you might you can't come up with anything implicating the current government in any significant corruption scandal. Call me a mongrel if you wish, but that doesn't change the fact that you and your cadre of agent provacateurs have tossed as much sh*t as possible and nothing sticks. This government is growing in popularity and it looks like the next election will be a crushing landslide majority. You are going to have to do better than your feeble attempt if you want to stop the juggernaut of Thailand's electorate. The freedom train left the station and you are still at the pier waiting for the garbage scow called the Democrat party to carry you and your gang to "victory". You missed the party.

As predicted.

It saddens me but I can only offer the suggestion to seek help for the delusional disorder that seems to be effecting your judgement.

Best of luck to you GK

Edited February 21, 2013 by dcutman

[rixalex]

You simply repeat the substance of your earlier post without addressing any of my detailed responses.

That is because much of your detailed responses i agreed with, but those points you made did not change the point i was making, relating to a shift in attitude by some, evident on this forum, towards large sections of the people of Bangkok, that began the moment the first poll was published suggesting a PTP win might be on the cards. A complete unrelated coincidence i am sure.

[Payboy]

Imagine voting for anyone who airbrushed their publicity photos quite that bad.

The policies are fake. The promises are fake. They can't even put up a real photo of themselves. Sukhumband looks about 14 years old in that photo.

Must be all that stress from the floods, he's aged.

Chairman mao would be proud of that photo.

Mao - I knew they had something in common.

[Nickymaster]

there hasn't been one corruption scandal associated with the current administration.

And yet, the government you ridicule and denigrate, hasn't become mired in allegations of profiteering or kickbacks.

My god Gk what planet have you been living on for the last 18 months?!!! What ever it is that would be causing these delusions, please seek medical help ASAP, as in, go to the hospital right now.

Ok, Please list the corruption scandals. The police building affair was a legacy of the Democrat administration. It was the incumbent Democrat governor that is mired in the issue of the BTS servicing contract shenanigans. It is the military and southern government officials that are tainted by the Rohingya exploitation, so please do tell me about what big corruption case has occurred under the Yingluck administration.

I am not going to waste a lot of time here, because you and a few others are so "willfully ignorant" and you will defend your beloved Puppet PM like a Mongrel defending food.

So go ahead and defend away.

http://www.thaivisa....d-in-graft-dsi/

http://www.thaivisa....cheme-thailand/

http://www.thaivisa....urb-corruption/

http://www.nationmul...w-30200176.html

http://www.thaivisa....iasco-thailand/

http://news.voicetv....lish/30856.html

There is a short list for you GK and the other defenders of the Puppet Princess Yingluck.

None of the cases you cite are a demonstration of the current administration's corruption that you allege.

None of the examples you provide even comes close to the multipole serious scandals that characterized the Abhisit regime.

Look at the cases you cite;

1. Flood relief graft in Bangkok: Sorry, but no one in the government was directly implicated. Yes there was most likely profiteering. However, it was done at the local level.

2. The finance minister says there are reports of corruption in the rice pledging scheme. Ok. That is an indication that the government takes the situation seriously, not that the PM or her ministers is implicated. The involved parties are alleged to be investors and local officials.

3. See No. 2. Again no direct implication of the government as profiteering.

4. Chalerm's comment on the common practice of the BiB accepting gifts. In case you missed it, Chalerm is not accused of taking a gift or a bribe. I don't think the police should take the gifts, but this is how it is in Thailand and SE Asia. The item you reference illustrates a social practice and not the Yingluck administration's impropriety.

5. You really are getting desperate on this one. The commentator from the Nation, an acknowledged opponent of the popularly elected government is trying to spread the blame to detract away from the Democrat's mishandling of the program. The program itself wasn't bad as the polcie needed new facilities. It was the administration of the program under the Democrats that bungled the program. The PTP had no say in the administration of the funds. The commentator even acknowledges the following;

Late in 2008 the Democrats grabbed power via a vote in the House. They decided to implement the former government's plan because they also wanted the police on their side.In 2009, the Abhisit Vejjajiva government approved a Bt6.6-billion budget for the rebuilding scheme.

Don't blame PM Yingluck because the Democrats didn't safeguard the program.

6. And your crowning glory is some trash talk to dredge up the meeting the PM had in a public venue. First she was accused of having a awdry sex affair and now you try and use this as evidence of corruption. The inquiry showed nothing untoward occurred. The PM regularly meets with business people. The person making the allegation had an acknowledged grudge against the PM.

Try as you might you can't come up with anything implicating the current government in any significant corruption scandal. Call me a mongrel if you wish, but that doesn't change the fact that you and your cadre of agent provacateurs have tossed as much sh*t as possible and nothing sticks. This government is growing in popularity and it looks like the next election will be a crushing landslide majority. You are going to have to do better than your feeble attempt if you want to stop the juggernaut of Thailand's electorate. The freedom train left the station and you are still at the pier waiting for the garbage scow called the Democrat party to carry you and your gang to "victory". You missed the party.

None of the cases you cite are a demonstration of the current administration's corruption that you allege.

None of the examples you provide even comes close to the multipole serious scandals that characterized the Abhisit regime.

Gkid, first you say that there is no corruption under Yingluck and then you say that corruption under Yingluck doesn't even come close to corruption under AV. Strange.

Meanwhile we are witnessing the largest corruption case in Thai history (unless the whole World is wrong and you are right).

http://www.capitalri...ates/archive/39

http://thediplomat.c...-rice-exporter/

http://www.thaiworld...uestion_id=1146

http://www.nytimes.c...money.html?_r=0

http://www.eastasiaf...cy-gets-sticky/

http://www.businessw...rs-thaksin-says

Edited February 21, 2013 by Nickymaster

[jayboy]

You simply repeat the substance of your earlier post without addressing any of my detailed responses.

That is because much of your detailed responses i agreed with, but those points you made did not change the point i was making, relating to a shift in attitude by some, evident on this forum, towards large sections of the people of Bangkok, that began the moment the first poll was published suggesting a PTP win might be on the cards. A complete unrelated coincidence i am sure.

Noted though I was unaware of the shift you speak of.Frankly I don't pay much attention to forum mood swings because inevitably the obsessed crazies on both sides take a more prominent position than their views justify.As to the election for reasons already detailed I wouldn't rule out a Democrat win.

[h90]

You simply repeat the substance of your earlier post without addressing any of my detailed responses.

That is because much of your detailed responses i agreed with, but those points you made did not change the point i was making, relating to a shift in attitude by some, evident on this forum, towards large sections of the people of Bangkok, that began the moment the first poll was published suggesting a PTP win might be on the cards. A complete unrelated coincidence i am sure.

Noted though I was unaware of the shift you speak of.Frankly I don't pay much attention to forum mood swings because inevitably the obsessed crazies on both sides take a more prominent position than their views justify.As to the election for reasons already detailed I wouldn't rule out a Democrat win.

Well in BKK the Democrats were always strong. The current governor isn't really a good populist or outspoken. PTP tried to block him everywhere.

That strange talk of Abhisit that he would prefer someone better wasn't helpful.

On the other hand many people are angry with PTP since the floods, but that doesn't mean that they would vote for the Dems and 300 Baht may change a lot.

As well there are rumors that PTP is importing half a million voters.

So everything is possible.....

[rixalex]

You simply repeat the substance of your earlier post without addressing any of my detailed responses.

That is because much of your detailed responses i agreed with, but those points you made did not change the point i was making, relating to a shift in attitude by some, evident on this forum, towards large sections of the people of Bangkok, that began the moment the first poll was published suggesting a PTP win might be on the cards. A complete unrelated coincidence i am sure.

Noted though I was unaware of the shift you speak of.Frankly I don't pay much attention to forum mood swings because inevitably the obsessed crazies on both sides take a more prominent position than their views justify.As to the election for reasons already detailed I wouldn't rule out a Democrat win.

My own feeling is that Pongsapat will just edge it. Either way, i think, as you say, it will be close.

From the Dems point of view, considering the bigger picture and the more long term consequences, might actually not be the worst thing if they do lose. I don't think Sukhumbhand, if he stays in the job, will be able to swing any new support in the Dems direction, not at least judging from what he has done so far. On the other hand, Pongsapat might just swing some support away from PTP if he gets the job. Time will tell...

[jayboy]

You simply repeat the substance of your earlier post without addressing any of my detailed responses.

That is because much of your detailed responses i agreed with, but those points you made did not change the point i was making, relating to a shift in attitude by some, evident on this forum, towards large sections of the people of Bangkok, that began the moment the first poll was published suggesting a PTP win might be on the cards. A complete unrelated coincidence i am sure.

Noted though I was unaware of the shift you speak of.Frankly I don't pay much attention to forum mood swings because inevitably the obsessed crazies on both sides take a more prominent position than their views justify.As to the election for reasons already detailed I wouldn't rule out a Democrat win.

Well in BKK the Democrats were always strong. The current governor isn't really a good populist or outspoken. PTP tried to block him everywhere.

That strange talk of Abhisit that he would prefer someone better wasn't helpful.

On the other hand many people are angry with PTP since the floods, but that doesn't mean that they would vote for the Dems and 300 Baht may change a lot.

As well there are rumors that PTP is importing half a million voters.

So everything is possible.....

Sounds as though you're preparing the ground for a Sukhumband defeat.But you will have to invent more convincing lies than the import of half a million PTP voters or Baht 300 bribes to be convincing .

[Mackie]

Sounds as though you're preparing the ground for a Sukhumband defeat.But you will have to invent more convincing lies than the import of half a million PTP voters or Baht 300 bribes to be convincing .

Denying vote buying in Thailand is kind of ridiculuous. Everyone knows that Thaksin's proteges buy votes. It's common knowledge. So accusing him that he invented it does not hold water. By the way, they offer 500 baht this time around. Inflation and all that. Also tax rebate for the first time car buyers will suffice. Thais love cars.

[jayboy]

Sounds as though you're preparing the ground for a Sukhumband defeat.But you will have to invent more convincing lies than the import of half a million PTP voters or Baht 300 bribes to be convincing .

Denying vote buying in Thailand is kind of ridiculuous. Everyone knows that Thaksin's proteges buy votes. It's common knowledge. So accusing him that he invented it does not hold water. By the way, they offer 500 baht this time around. Inflation and all that. Also tax rebate for the first time car buyers will suffice. Thais love cars.

Do some research on Bangkok elections and vote buying before embarrassing yourself.Tax rebate on cars is a different matter and forms part of the government's populist policies,yes to attract voters.

[Mackie]

Do some research on Bangkok elections and vote buying before embarrassing yourself.Tax rebate on cars is a different matter and forms part of the government's populist policies,yes to attract voters.

The only embarrasement here is your continuous denial of vote buying in Thai elections. I'm not going to get involved in a discussion with someone who obviously lacks basic knowledge of Thai politics.

[jayboy]

Do some research on Bangkok elections and vote buying before embarrassing yourself.Tax rebate on cars is a different matter and forms part of the government's populist policies,yes to attract voters.

The only embarrasement here is your continuous denial of vote buying in Thai elections. I'm not going to get involved in a discussion with someone who obviously lacks basic knowledge of Thai politics.

I'm afraid it's not quite as simple as you suggest.Chang Noi gives a useful guide from September 2008.As to who is knowledgeable or otherwise about Thai politics I leave it to others to assess.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/09/01/opinion/opinion_30082102.php

[h90]

Sounds as though you're preparing the ground for a Sukhumband defeat.But you will have to invent more convincing lies than the import of half a million PTP voters or Baht 300 bribes to be convincing .

no I only state the facts. Of course there is massive vote buying by the PTP, maybe even by the Democrats. But as the Democrats are always out of money and the PTP has a lot money they will do the most vote buying. Half Bangkok speaks about the PTP register people from Isaan in Bangkok. Which isn't as bad as it sounds because I guess most will be anyway already since a long time working in Bangkok, just never registered.

I personally don't prepare anything. While I really dislike PTP, I never saw that anyone from the Democrats I did really amazing things. It is the a question if a broken Volvo or a broken Mercedes is the better car if they wouldn't be broken....Actually both don't do what they are supposed to do....which of the broken one looks better is a question of taste.

[MobileContent]

Its time for a change at the top of the BMA

[h90]

 

Its time for a change at the top of the BMA

 

yes but not some cronies of the most corrupt Thai politician......