Time Share Touts

[eezergood]

Agreed it is very annoying, but no more or less than the Tuk Tuk etc.... BUT i do enjoy p!ssing them off also

it drove this bloke insane!

NIce work

[grumpyoldman]

I hear many Europeans complain that Thai food is too spicy. Due to all these complaints, maybe Thai food should not be sold?

So now you're comparing the lies told by the timeshare touts, time and time again, to Thai food? <deleted>? But to stick to that comparison, yes, if a Pad Krapao Pork is sold as vegetarian that is a reason to complain. And even worse, if the Pad Krapao is not served but changed to a fried rice pork and in order to get that they have to pay double, yes, all the more reason to complain.

O.K., then with this logic, the Mercure sells Pad Thai for 180thb. The Thai food place across the street, 60thb.

If the customer pays 180thb, have they been "scammed"? if there are enough complaints, is that reason to shut the Mercure's restaurant down?

Again "scam', if there is no way out, no where for the customer to walk away, I'd agree, but here there is and all we are talking about is dodgy business pratices and HELLO (!), if i had a half a satang for every one of those here I'd be Thaksin.

Very bad example and nothing to do with what I wrote.

No, I was comparing your argument of the number of complaints.

Then I took the logic of being charged for something that it's not (moo dish, but you get veg), one step further in overcharging for the same dish.

[stevenl]

But that is not the problem: with timeshare sales here you're not getting what you were promised and you're being lied to about what
you'll get and what it is. So nothing to do with overcharging, and I agree with you there, that is not scamming.

But the way timeshares are sold is.

Sorry, could not quote, the new quote system is not working properly.

[robblok]

Looks like the members have identified the English time share seller.. his name is grumpyoldman

[IrishIvan]

I am yet to be approached by an annoying pad krapao moo sales person. When that time comes GOM I will start a thread here about it

[grumpyoldman]

Looks like the members have identified the English time share seller.. his name is grumpyoldman

Wow thats really funny robblok, way to contribute, keep up the good work, now go back to whatever forum you are from and do that there.

Timeshares overall is a pitiful business for sure, and yes, I am aware they sell these same rooms over and over, we had them where I come from too.

I guess my main point is that I don't see it as a "scam' because the customer can walk away or as has been suggested "sorry, I didn't win" , the scratcher joke that was funny 7 or 8 years ago but quite old now.

Duping the tourist into paying 180thb for Pad Thai at the hotel, instead of the 35-60thb at the Thai food place across the street, I find a lot more offensive than just telling a tout to p**-off.

[grumpyoldman]

I am yet to be approached by an annoying pad krapao moo sales person. When that time comes GOM I will start a thread here about it

Thats o.k. Irishivan, I'm still waiting on the pinned "whinging" and you can post it there.

[stevenl]

I guess my main point is that I don't see it as a "scam' because the customer can walk away or as has been suggested "sorry, I didn't win" ,

The problem is the customer doesn't know what it is until it is too late.

[robblok]

Looks like the members have identified the English time share seller.. his name is grumpyoldman

Wow thats really funny robblok, way to contribute, keep up the good work, now go back to whatever forum you are from and do that there.

Timeshares overall is a pitiful business for sure, and yes, I am aware they sell these same rooms over and over, we had them where I come from too.

I guess my main point is that I don't see it as a "scam' because the customer can walk away or as has been suggested "sorry, I didn't win" , the scratcher joke that was funny 7 or 8 years ago but quite old now.

Duping the tourist into paying 180thb for Pad Thai at the hotel, instead of the 35-60thb at the Thai food place across the street, I find a lot more offensive than just telling a tout to p**-off.

Thing is its a scam because things are promised that are not delivered. That is the definition of a scam promising one thing and not delivering. Promising a great hotel and delivering a dump. Ect ect.. but it seems most here are not on your side.. not that a majority is always right but it would give you some pause to think.

[eezergood]

Why on earth would you sign a few thousand dollars/pounds/whatever on something you where not sure of?

[stevenl]

Why on earth would you sign a few thousand dollars/pounds/whatever on something you where not sure of?

Yes, that is what I am wondering sometimes myself. But why do people think they can ride a motorbike here when they have never tried that before? Why do they think they don't have to wear a helmet here when they wouldn't think about doing that at home?

They're on vacation and they're gullible and they stop thinking. So they're for a part to blame themselves IMO.

[eezergood]

Personal responsibility MUST be taken into account. As for the motorbike clowns, they seem to have the pool playing mentality - I always play better (ride better) after a few beers!

[petercallen]

Probably the biggest scam in Phuket and Bali as well

And Its farangs not Thais who are trying to rip people off

[eezergood]

They work, as people tend to trust their own! The basis being that a Brit can trust a Brit etc.....

[bubblegum]

I still have to agree with Grumpy. I don't see the scam. If people do not deliver what's been promised is a scam than all politicians are scammers as well as bankers, laywers and barladies

[Mrjlh]

This article might help some people to make an educated decision.

http://traveltips.usatoday.com/timeshares-bad-investment-14751.html

[xylophone]

Why on earth would you sign a few thousand dollars/pounds/whatever on something you where not sure of?

The whole thing is a scam (there I've said it)..................giving you a scratchie which is rigged to be a winner for a start; promising you that all you have to do is to sit through a 90 min presentation is a lie (there is much more involved); promises of accomodation anywhere in the world when there are not enough hotel rooms allocated to accomodate the "members".........etc, etc.

And as to the question posed by eezergood, because of sales PRESSURE. There are many folk who are pressured and intimidated by these hard sell salespeople and they sign money away because they are frightened or confused and want to get out of the place. Once in there these poor folk are not given the opportunity to think things through in a logical fashion due to "stand over" tactics, so they make an irrational decision.

How do I know...........I've been a sales professional (and have run sales progs worldwide) for much of my life and have always sold ethically. Not so many of these people, and I have seen their operations from the inside, and know people who are involved, and I wouldn't have a bar of it. Totally unethical and not customer focussed.

[eezergood]

Why on earth would you sign a few thousand dollars/pounds/whatever on something you where not sure of?

The whole thing is a scam (there I've said it)..................giving you a scratchie which is rigged to be a winner for a start; promising you that all you have to do is to sit through a 90 min presentation is a lie (there is much more involved); promises of accomodation anywhere in the world when there are not enough hotel rooms allocated to accomodate the "members".........etc, etc.

And as to the question posed by eezergood, because of sales PRESSURE. There are many folk who are pressured and intimidated by these hard sell salespeople and they sign money away because they are frightened or confused and want to get out of the place. Once in there these poor folk are not given the opportunity to think things through in a logical fashion due to "stand over" tactics, so they make an irrational decision.

How do I know...........I've been a sales professional (and have run sales progs worldwide) for much of my life and have always sold ethically. Not so many of these people, and I have seen their operations from the inside, and know people who are involved, and I wouldn't have a bar of it. Totally unethical and not customer focussed.

Perhaps you could go through the process & report back what you found/heard..... This is not being sarcastic, but from a 'pros' point of view type report - could be very interesting

[stevenl]

I still have to agree with Grumpy. I don't see the scam. If people do not deliver what's been promised is a scam than all politicians are scammers as well as bankers, laywers and barladies

Definition from Webster: "a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation". So yes, timeshare sales is a scam since they are deceiving people from the beginning of the process till the end. I'll leave conclusions about bankers and politicians to you.

[IrishIvan]

Looks like the members have identified the English time share seller.. his name is grumpyoldman

Wow thats really funny robblok, way to contribute, keep up the good work, now go back to whatever forum you are from and do that there.

Timeshares overall is a pitiful business for sure, and yes, I am aware they sell these same rooms over and over, we had them where I come from too.

I guess my main point is that I don't see it as a "scam' because the customer can walk away or as has been suggested "sorry, I didn't win" , the scratcher joke that was funny 7 or 8 years ago but quite old now.

Duping the tourist into paying 180thb for Pad Thai at the hotel, instead of the 35-60thb at the Thai food place across the street, I find a lot more offensive than just telling a tout to p**-off.

well Somchais bamboo hut costs a lot less than the 120 room hotel. Hence the price difference. I couldnt care less whether the time share touts are scamming people. I view it the same way as Nigerians selling drugs in Sukhumwit. If your stupid enough to part with your money then bad luck. Just dont hassle me when im walking down the street with "hey you want sometink men " or "you from Australia mate can I have a moment of our time" or my personal favourite "tuk tuk"

[petercallen]

Looks like the members have identified the English time share seller.. his name is grumpyoldman

GOM is not English and if you took the time to follow this forum you would know that

I have met him and he is a nice person with his own opinion who does not hide behind a computer

Which cannot be sad about some posters on this forum

[eezergood]

Well once I fix a date for the meet & greet we can put names & faces to MEMEs

IF you DARE!!!

[robblok]

Looks like the members have identified the English time share seller.. his name is grumpyoldman

GOM is not English and if you took the time to follow this forum you would know that

I have met him and he is a nice person with his own opinion who does not hide behind a computer

Which cannot be sad about some posters on this forum

If you had any idea what a smilie means then you know i was taking the piss. It was a joke. As for me, like you my user name is my real name I don't hide.

[xylophone]

Quote eezergood: “Perhaps you could go through the process & report back what you found/heard.....
This is not being sarcastic, but from a 'pros' point of view type the report could be very interesting”.

Whilst that sounds like a good suggestion, I don't want to fall foul of any members who wish to support "timeshare etc" selling or for anything to get too personal, as I have found it can do in the past.

However I will give you a few pointers and have tried to keep it short, however very difficult to do in reality.

First of all it should be noted that in many countries some "direct selling" methods are against the law. Why, simply because there is a need to protect the consumer, and a few from the UK and USA are as follows: -

-- The salesperson takes you to a long salespresentation where you are put under pressure to sign a contract before leaving

-- Incorporating lottery-like chance elements in the sale and distribution of merchandise to the general public.

-- The seller making the initial approach (unexpectedly) often personally, either face to face or over the telephone.

-- The seller only offering a limited range of products, and

-- Salespeople making use of direct selling techniques and strategies which take psychological advantage of the selling environment (environment where the consumer cannot easily walk away without buying something first) to pressure the consumer.

So by law, the consumer has certain rights and the selling techniques used must be lawful, which of course have no meaning in this country, which is why such companies flourish.

Another point to consider is that if the selling of "timeshare/fractional ownership/holiday clubs" was ethical, then why not advertise that if anyone is interested in such a product, then contact XZY company. However you will see no such advertisements here (as a rule) and there is a reason for it.

Without getting too deep into the psychology of selling, or the frailties of human nature, it is well documented that there are those people who are extremely easy to sell to at one end of the scale, and at the other end those who are extremely difficult and who will not buy unless they have carefully researched, planned, researched again and finally determined it is what they need. If you add to the mix those people who are intimidated by stand-over tactics and will sign anything because of fear, and those people who are impulse purchasers who really are after the thrill of the purchase and usually repent at leisure, then you have a whole range of potential customers who are the targets.

The reason that the OPCs (Outside People Chasers, as they are called) approach everyone with the scratchie ruse is to basically hide what they are selling, and even if questions are asked they are usually very evasive about what the end result is. In addition they prey on human frailties because "everyone wants something for nothing" or words to that effect.

Once the "prospects" are in the presentation/premises inspection/sales pitch, then the hope is that they will have caught in their net many of the unsuspecting folk who may well sign up for something because of their frailties, as outlined a couple of paragraphs ago i.e. impulse purchasers, the meek and timid who cannot say no, those who are fearful of not signing and the plain scared. Not to mention those who have had a few drinks and are enjoying their holiday and think that this seems like a good scheme, without really thinking it through, and usually regret their decision soon after.

So by operating this way the companies pull in more "suspects" (anyone out there with a Visa/Mastercard card) which they turn into "prospects" (usually defined as those who turn up for the presentation) and then put the hard sell on them to close a deal. By using this methodology they will have snared just a few (if any) folk who may be interested in the product, and a whole load more who may not know what they are in for, but are fair game for a signature.

There are many tactics used in the sales process, a couple of the more common ones being the "good cop, bad cop" scenario, whereby one seems to be the hard sell character, whereas the other seems to be on the customer’s side and tries to befriend them by openly challenging the original seller on some points, however at the end of the day the signature is all that matters. Another one is where the seller seems genuine and tries to get to know customer and lets them know a little about his background and how good a guy he is, and when it comes down to the sale, some people will sign because they have made a friend and trust them, or do not want to upset their new-found friend (who may well have sealed the deal over dinner/drinks later, after a preliminary "deal" has been signed). Many, many other techniques are used, including reverse psychology and aspects of Neuro Linguistic Programming.

Just to end, in many countries the selling of real estate or associated products, or indeed products which require a substantial investment, require the seller to disclose the commission they are paid for the sale and their association with the company, however not in the "timeshare game" which makes up its own rules to a certain extent.

And just for good measure in any such deal in many countries, where a contract is signed, the consumer has the right to what is known as a "cooling off period" whereby they can change their mind and get their money back/unwind the contract at no cost or pressure to themselves. I doubt it would be easy in this case.

[simple1]

Accor Group is one of the larger global players in timeshare. I sold them a database application for data mining and automated mailing In Australia; approx 3 million plus contacts in their database. They used to have about 25k members in Australia. The scheme is heavily regulated and has a seven day cooling period after contract signing. They acquire suspect info from providers of lifestyle content, such as American Express, hotel guest info, travel exhibitions etc. In one aspect sounds similar to what's happening in Phuket in that prospects have to attend a 90 minute presentation. From memory they provide heavily discounted hotel package vouchers for those attending the seminars, even if they don't sign up.

Australia also has a "do not contact" national database that is administered by ADMA. Marketers have to wash their contact database against ADMA prior to making contact. Companies that breach the code can be fined up to A$25k per contact.

[Shot]

Just keep walking, smile and tell them to F-off

[bearpolar]

Lived in phuket 4years and have never met a timeshare tout..

idiot tax imo

[Star Dust]

Hi

Funny Forum I have to say. I had my LULZ, no doubt.

I just reply in general to this topic

I love the timeshare touts, or used to, when I lived on Phuket, Kho Samui,Pattaya, etc....They got really funny stories to tell about tourists, I can tell you that.

They're just trying to make a living, and making one in the timeshare business is a particularly tough one. And there is no need to be angry at them, cause you never know what kind of fight they are figthing.

They are in the right place. And so are the "tuk tuk" drivers, tailors, bar girls, ladyboys, and god knows what else there is these days. Places like Patong on Phuket, Chaweng on Kho Samui, Pattaya, and so forth are designed, well build and organized, to aim for one thing, and one thing only. And that is to get as much money from the farangs as possible, and fast of course before they leave again. This has nothing to do with real Thailand. It's just a business. T-touts, tuk tuk drivers, tailors, bargirls, and all those other streetworkers know each other of course. They even work together sharing the profit. The timeshare fellows use tuk tuks, sometimes they send tourists to tailors giving a 25% discount if they go on a timeshare presenntation(with the advise to not sign a thing of course), the tailor handing out scratch cards to high roll customers, the bargirl driving a timeshare tout during daytime to earn a couple of more Baht, and so on......the target of all this business remains the same. The target is always the farang. Not only tourists. EVERY FARANG.

For a quiet place I would recommend a rice field in the north east. Then westerners might get enlightened why a tuk tuk driver shouts "tuk tuk" (probably even in his sleep the poor fellow) out loud all day long. Adopt to your environment.

If anyone really want's to live in Thailand, then get Thai'd. Learn how to speak, read and write in Thai. I would require the same of whoever wants to live in my country.

You can learn it on every corner in Thailand. They even thought me for free. All I had to do is ask, and write it down. In my 13 years here I've learned one thing. And that is <removed>

[surangw]

Just keep walking, smile and tell them to F-off

scratch their card, sniff it, and say is smells like bullshit ( best done while there are several prospective customers aroujnd)

[xylophone]

Accor Group is one of the larger global players in timeshare. I sold them a database application for data mining and automated mailing In Australia; approx 3 million plus contacts in their database. They used to have about 25k members in Australia. The scheme is heavily regulated and has a seven day cooling period after contract signing. They acquire suspect info from providers of lifestyle content, such as American Express, hotel guest info, travel exhibitions etc. In one aspect sounds similar to what's happening in Phuket in that prospects have to attend a 90 minute presentation. From memory they provide heavily discounted hotel package vouchers for those attending the seminars, even if they don't sign up.

Australia also has a "do not contact" national database that is administered by ADMA. Marketers have to wash their contact database against ADMA prior to making contact. Companies that breach the code can be fined up to A$25k per contact.

Thanks for that info, and I have no doubt that there are some genuine operators out there who do stick by the "rules". However the way the "timeshare touts/companies" operate here would not be tolerated in many countries (see those activities I noted).