A Member Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 You'd think they can do all that by simply starting from the momet the tourist is entering Thailand at the airport or other entry points, why wait for the hotels to forward lists of guests? and what about people entering the kingdom and do not go to a hotel?? like, Duh... Was there not a case some weeks back where an idiot Swiss girl stole an Immigration Officer's camera at the airport and spent 14 days in a government " hotel " before they managed to find her and reassure the Swiss Embassy ? It's really touching that they have our welfare at heart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locationthailand Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Reading another post it claims they have 120 hotels registered? I mean really? And imagine the sh*t fight at Immigration having to send out the foreigners registration forms within 24 hours either by personal delivery (that alone would be a full time job) or by email. Then who would even process this crap mountain of paper? By the time they even looked at it the 'foreigners' would most likely have moved on anyway. Talk about out of control bureaucracy... It would be far easier to police corruption than sort out this mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laislica Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Surely, nearly every hotel has a computerised reservation system which would include all guest's personal details, ie. name, address, passport number etc. It should be a simple process to provided required information at any time. No - not easy. If I spend a few moments just thinking about the initial data requirements I can come up with a huge list of complications so if this were to be done professionally, it would be a major project. e.g. Every hotel/guest house/condo operator etc with a computerised system will have a different package running. They will collect and store different amounts of data in different ways. The Imm dept would need to issue a strict data transfer protocol. The protocol would need to include a unique Client Identification code. The protocol would need to include provisions for future additional data requirements. The protocol would need to have security built in to stop fraud and hack attack. The protocol would need to have a feedback mechanism built in so that on say a monthly basis, the client could verify that the information on the Imm Dept computer agrees with his. Client does not want to pay too many taxes etc. This feedback would have to be automated, like checking your credit on a pay as you go phone. There would need to be limits about when and how often you could run this check otherwise it could be used as a denial of service attack. New Client software (at the hotel) would comply and then it could be easier. Ideally, the software should be Imm Dept approved and would undergo beta trials before rolling it out. However, all existing packages would need an data conversion/security/transfer module. This would be at the expense of the Client. As my dear old Mum used to say: "It's easy when you say it fast!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunken Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Am I missing something? I've always thought that it was the responsibility of the local BIB to visit all hotels in their remit daily to collect the forms. So, are the BIB failing in their duty (?), are the hotels failing to provide the required paperwork or are the hotels not filling the brown envelopes with enough dang? Probably a combination of all three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nisa Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I don't get why some posters are complaining when they constantly complain about the lack of Thailand being a nanny state, its policing and control of people. I would think this is the type of thing they would be all for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beetlejuice Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 What a feel good story this is, the bib, worried about tracing travelers, good work boys .How about doing some tracing in Dubai? This is about the evasion of tax, so there`s money involved. Otherwise they wouldn`t give a rat`s behind where we are or for our safety. They seek us here, they seek us there, they want our money everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xkmasada Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Travellers' welfare - my butt. The real concern is tax dodging, and at the rate the country is being plundered at the moment, it needs all it can get. Especially since Thailand currently has the SMALLEST government budget deficit since Abhisit was appointed PM. The Thai government needs all the $$$ it can get, our soon we'll be as broke as Germany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overherebc Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 (edited) Surely, nearly every hotel has a computerised reservation system which would include all guest's personal details, ie. name, address, passport number etc. It should be a simple process to provided required information at any time. .Beyond the reality that many, many hotels in Thailand do not have any computerized reservation system, it's doubtful that even those that do have all the data, required to comply with TM.30 form, entered into it. Name and Surname Nationality Passport No. Date of Arrival Type of Visa Expire date of stay Point of entry Arrival card TM.No. Relationship . ATM number Credit card numbers Ready cash Edited February 27, 2013 by overherebc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlow999 Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 So is the tourist police practically tell travelers: "Excuse me, ladies and gentlemen, but before you enter our country OFFICIALLY, we need to take you to immigration registration again, in order to officially approve your Tourist Visas, that you applied for from your Thai embassy at your country, and if your hotel has BY ANY ACCIDENT FORGOTTEN REGISTER YOU.... we must ask you to leave the country.... So sollyyyyyy, Fallangggggg...." No, they're not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratakhun Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 It's always about talk the talk in this country. They're still on their knees with walking the walk part of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlow999 Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 How about all the Farangs that holiday in Condo blocks and villas? Many condo owners in Jomtien, Pratumnak, Naklua & Pattaya, for instance, rent their condo's...Many purchase multiple condo's for this purpose. Some are held in Foreign name others under Company name. Most visitors go unreported.. The issue is about hotels and guest houses that don't report. Condo owners and villa owners aren't subject to the same regulations, they don't pay hotel tax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnx355 Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I was in Ha Noi, Vietnam 5 years ago in a small 20 room hotel. Every evening before midnight, the receptionist sat at a computer in the lobby and reported the guests to Viet Nam Immigration using a web site with password. I was sitting at the other computer in the lobby and I asked her about it. Name, Nationality, passport number, DOB and room number , length of stay. Very simple and not much paperwork. She told me for large hotel chain they can upload the information direct from the hotel computer to VN Immigration. I guess Thailand Immigration could use a similar system . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 How about all the Farangs that holiday in Condo blocks and villas? Many condo owners in Jomtien, Pratumnak, Naklua & Pattaya, for instance, rent their condo's...Many purchase multiple condo's for this purpose. Some are held in Foreign name others under Company name. Most visitors go unreported.. The issue is about hotels and guest houses that don't report. Condo owners and villa owners aren't subject to the same regulations, they don't pay hotel tax. . Actually, they are subject to the same regulation according to the Immigration Act of 1979... which has nothing to do with hotel tax. Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned. Section 4 : In this Act : “ House Master ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance with the law on people act. . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pisico Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 This is a load BS, even the form that we must fill in (TM.30) doesn't make any sense, the 1 part is a list of all occupants names, but the second part has only room for 1 traveller, half of the 2nd sheet is filled in by immigration ripped off and given back, it should then be given to that tourist to place in their passport (similar to the 90 day reporting) My wife has challenged this many times but they won't back down insisting it is right, yet everytime we hand 1 in the officer fills in and stamps the 2nd part differently to the last, this second part is what is required if you then want to attempt to get a licence/car in your name (I know it's different/easy when living in a private house, but more and more foreigners are asking us to register them just to get a licence). Large hotels do not do this, they simply pay a large back-hander every month/year for the problem to go away, and this is the issue here, they want the backhanders from the little guys. 5yrs ago immigration started a section on their website allowing GHs to register their occupants online, it still isn't finished 5yrs later, at least in Udon Thani/Nong khai it isn't. This would make it far too easy for us GH owners not to break the rules, result -no fines and no tea money. "I am shocked, I am shocked to find gambling in here" , said the chief of police upon entering Rick's cafe. Silly me. I thought it was about national security. For a change, it is not about xenophobia. It's all about the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukrules Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Like someone else mentioned this can be done online via a website. This is what happened when I moved into my current residence. My girlfriend watched as the kid entered the details directly into the website after first logging on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsujin Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 What a feel good story this is, the bib, worried about tracing travelers, good work boys .How about doing some tracing in Dubai? Some just can't stop themselves! And some just can't help commenting on others comments . . . like you . . . and me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisrazz Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 This story has the strong smell of buffalo. Tracing undesireables and monitoring the movements of tourists for their benefit, my ass. The number of hotel registrations/receipts annually declared versus the numbers of actual tourist nights does not stack up. Immigration can see fairly quickly to prove this. The local BIB are already collecting tax in an unreciepted form, it's just not finding it's way to treasury. Hotels do, however, gather the information that is more convenient for themselves. Ie, my wife's Thai ID card for when we check in etc. I would rather see policing of this nature in the hands of TAT. Hotel and guest house licenses issued by them and relevant details and taxes collected by them instead of the long arm of the law, with it's equally deep pockets. This way, when the numbers don't stack, or the police are seeking to trace the last whereabouts of a particular person there is actually an organisation with the responsibility to provide the data. The police here need to be stripped of responsibility, not further enriched with more powers, they are a murky subculture within thai society that need to be engaged in the activities of protecting the community. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 (edited) This story has the strong smell of buffalo. Tracing undesireables and monitoring the movements of tourists for their benefit, my ass. The number of hotel registrations/receipts annually declared versus the numbers of actual tourist nights does not stack up. Immigration can see fairly quickly to prove this. The local BIB are already collecting tax in an unreciepted form, it's just not finding it's way to treasury. Hotels do, however, gather the information that is more convenient for themselves. Ie, my wife's Thai ID card for when we check in etc. I would rather see policing of this nature in the hands of TAT. Hotel and guest house licenses issued by them and relevant details and taxes collected by them instead of the long arm of the law, with it's equally deep pockets. This way, when the numbers don't stack, or the police are seeking to trace the last whereabouts of a particular person there is actually an organisation with the responsibility to provide the data. The police here need to be stripped of responsibility, not further enriched with more powers, they are a murky subculture within thai society that need to be engaged in the activities of protecting the community. Well, the moment that the numbers of hotel stayers starts being massively different from immigration you have a problem. Of course, not every tourist arrival is a hotel stayer, but a majority probably are, but they have been bandying around 22mn as the arrival number, yippee, everyone love thailand, we are the tourism kings. Tax is levied on hotel rooms for local government, numbers are apparently way up, and everyone at TAT is slapping their backs and collecting their bonuses for a job well done. But, but, but, how come some of the hotels appear quiet? Where did everyone go? So, the only way, is to actually ask the hotels in the resorts to start counting to get a figure that can at least get close to what TAT says. But, what if it still remains miles away? Did TAT make it all up. Lest we forget, that when you are trying to get funding, say, for a massive hotel on the beach, showing that the tourism numbers have grown massively, everything all becomes a lot easier. Expect, that the moment that possibility becomes the only explanation, that this whole story goes away. Edited February 27, 2013 by Thai at Heart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chainarong Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I don't get why some posters are complaining when they constantly complain about the lack of Thailand being a nanny state, its policing and control of people. I would think this is the type of thing they would be all for. Lets not confuse, as a nanny nation Australia takes the cake or 5 veg aday, whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I wonder how long it would take the plods to trace a foreign, if his or her family phoned up and said they had to contact them urgently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lounger Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 You'd think they can do all that by simply starting from the momet the tourist is entering Thailand at the airport or other entry points, why wait for the hotels to forward lists of guests? and what about people entering the kingdom and do not go to a hotel?? like, Duh... Every person entering the country has to report their whereabouts. The hotel system does it for you. Stay with a friend and you are eligible for a fine if not reported to immigration. Of course there are leniencies for example staying in one place and confirming every 90 days, not straying outside the province of registration etc. People dont realise that Thailand is like a host of mini countries and they dont share information. If you change province for more than 24 hours you have to notify the immig or police. Few people do and few are caught but rules are in place to fine you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animatic Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 (edited) Processing this much paper its basically impossible. It's very easy, done online..... Exactly, the is a web site they can use and add in each arrival every few hours or so. It automatically updates a database. Edited February 27, 2013 by animatic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaiThaiMai Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 By Coconuts Bangkok A slew of unregistered tourists on Khaosan Road. .Is that the proper collective noun for tourists? I thought it was either a gaggle or a herd. "Slew" is plural for "sluts" i.e.; male, female, shemale...and me of course ~ : b... MaiThaiMai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bokchoi Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 (edited) Is that the proper collective noun for tourists? I thought it was either a gaggle or a herd. I'm told that gaggle, herd or more popularly - flock, is used when the tourists are yanks. Edited February 27, 2013 by Bokchoi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 A shag of sex tourists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rancid Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Bureaucracy always strives to extend bureaucratic paper collecting, usually to the degree that the amount of information Big Brother collects is unorganizable, the poor buggers will be stamping holes in their desks in their quest for Orwellian nirvana. What, they predict 26 million tourists, all of whom they will track, hmmm. More likely a revenue gambit, as the government steals more they need to tax more, basic math really. Wonder when they will decide to get more out of the expats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaiThaiMai Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 (edited) Members 14 posts Posted 16 minutes ago Buchholz, on 26 Feb 2013 - 19:29, said: Is that the proper collective noun for tourists? I thought it was either a gaggle or a herd. I'm told that gaggle, herd or more popularly - flock, is used when the tourists are yanks. "Yanks" you say? Been there done that Edited February 27, 2013 by MaiThaiMai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzMick Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 (edited) Animals that are to be milked are generally referred to as a herd. Edited February 27, 2013 by OzMick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felt 35 Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Nothing new here same stories repeats itself every time there are a booming high season, nose up, not a problem, make one, never heard of in a disaster season....waiting..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellodolly Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Immigration promises crackdown on hotels By Coconuts Bangkok A slew of unregistered tourists on Khaosan Road. BANGKOK: -- Thai immigration police have promised to crack down on hotel owners who don’t notify law enforcement officials of foreign guests staying at their facilities. Citing a little-known edict that demands hotel owners keep police abreast of foreign guests, Pol Maj Gen Kritsada Surachetpong said on Tuesday that Bangkok’s immigration police would be on the lookout for hotel and guesthouse owners who weren’t following the letter of the law. According to Kritsada, the law requires hotel and guesthouse owners to tell police within 24 hours of a guest’s arrival. [more...] Full story: http://www.coconutsbangkok.com/news/immigration-promises-crackdown-on-hotels/ -- Coconuts Bangkok 2013-02-27 Am I the only one wondering how they know all those people are unregistered or for that fact registered. I would like to have a few words with the expert who knew that just by looking at there picture. What I need is some lotto numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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