Urgent Need Help, Selling A House

[Thaiaddict01]

Hi guys I am selling a house, it's my first time.



I just got an offer it's about 15% below what I am asking. (and I am
asking 2% higher than appraised value) So how do you do it? you always
meet in the middle? Or I can just insist on my number, I mean it's
appraised value I am not asking an unfair price. So insist on it and
make them up their number? and later maybe meet in the middle or what?

How long should I make them wait until they lose interest on your house and move on to the next? a week? maybe I will insist on my number and wait for them.



The house is near some major transportation station, city is building
stuff nearby but very slowly. So in the future it will go up for sure.
The last 2,3 years it have been going up slowly. Also before they even
make the offer they were asking for house blueprints, just give it to
them it's ok right? They wanna use the location as another branch for
their office, sounds like they got a big company. They went to see the
house for 3 times so far. Sounds like they are pretty interested in the house.

But they need to renovate it some, so they will spend some money I guess.




thanks guys

[TommoPhysicist]

Appraised value in Thailand is meaningless.

How much are you asking, how big is the house, how big is the land, where is it?

12% below asking, most folk would bite their hand off.

[BlackPuddingBertha]

It all depends on how keen you are to sell, and how many viewings/offers you have had.

If this is the first offer you have had in 6 months and you are in a hurry to sell then maybe you should just accept.

If the place has only been on the market for a week and you are in no hurry then you can afford to say "no" and see what happens.

No matter what value may have been put on the place it is all hot air until someone actually makes an offer and you accept it. Then you know what it's really worth.

[davejones]

Appraised value in Thailand is meaningless.

How much are you asking, how big is the house, how big is the land, where is it?

12% below asking, most folk would bite their hand off.

Agree with this. You can't force them to up the offer. If it was me, and you said no, I'd walk away and find another place. But all depends how much they want it, how quickly you need to sell, etc. This is between the two of you. Everyone is different. There is no formula that you meet half way. If there was, I'd offer you 1 baht, and then agree to meet half way. Only you can decide whether to accept or not. But sounds like a good offer to me.

[jimmybkk]

"Appraised Value" meaning appraised by the land office, or an independent valuer?

How does their offer compare with the price you paid?

Try and get some comparables - do you know of any places on the market of a similar size in a similar location? Find out what similar properties are selling for.

Have you got an agent involved? If not, assuming you have agents in your area, go visit them and tell them you are considering selling your place and ask them to come and take a look and make a suggestion as to what you should be looking for. You're under no obligation to use them provided you don't sign anything.

Personally, unless I was desperate to sell, I would never accept anyone's opening offer unless it was way above what I had in mind, and even then I would be tempted to engage in some very weak negotiations. No-one offers what they think a property is worth because everyone expects some negotiations to take place. In fact, if you bite their hand off and accept it, unless the offer is in the form of a binding contract and is not just a verbal "test the water" offer, there is a good chance they will sense your desperation or else feel that they have come in too high and may "after consideration" withdraw the offer and then come back with an even lower offer.

Finally, once you are getting close to agreeing a price, if it's not quite as much as you had hoped you can always come to some agreement over who will pay the transfer fees, or who will pay what %age of the transfer fees.

Good luck...

[Jingthing]

This is just a classic greed vs. fear scenario. If you counter their offer, they might walk and you might end up selling for much less than their offer. That's your fear and it's a rational fear. All you can do is make a calculated gamble about how badly they want the place. Cheers.

[Thaiaddict01]

hey guys some very good advices there, that's exactly what I wanted to know!! thanks a lot guys for your time and help!!

I don't want to go into too much detail so I am not going to answer some of the questions.

Edited March 4, 2013 by Thaiaddict01

[Thaiaddict01]

agent is telling me to meet the buyer to talk about the price. Says I should have 2 to 3 hours for the meeting. why 2,3 hours? is that normal or they just wanna get you tired and hopefully you will agree and sign the papers?

[ExpatOilWorker]

Who's house are you selling?

Assuming you are a "farang" you are surely not the owner.

[MichaelJohn]

Remember "face" is sooo important to Thai people and they must get some reduction to be seen to be doing a deal. If it's a Company you have to give them some reason to explain to their line manager why they increased there offer.

It's usual to change something in the sale to explain a movement in price - e.g. include the furniture, or exclude something that you'd previously intended to include.

The rest I think is what's already been said - but meeting to smile at each other for a couple of hours is necessary.

[saakura]

Remember "face" is sooo important to Thai people and they must get some reduction to be seen to be doing a deal.

What nonsense. This is a universal human trait. Which is why you see all those discount offers and reduction sale and stock clearance sale everywhere in the world.

[BlackPuddingBertha]

agent is telling me to meet the buyer to talk about the price. Says I should have 2 to 3 hours for the meeting. why 2,3 hours? is that normal or they just wanna get you tired and hopefully you will agree and sign the papers?

There are two diametrically opposed ways of looking at this.

Thai agents often seem to think that the buyer and vendor should thrash it all out between themselves. I suspect that this is because they want to avoid the potentially unpleasant nature of negotiations (aka "face"). Farang agents often say "never let the buyer and vendor get together as all they will do is screw up the sale".

Which is right? Who knows?

Personally I see no reason at all for discussions to last longer than 15 minutes either way. If they do drag on more than that they can do so at a distance.

[jimmybkk]

Maybe this is the plan....

They tell you the meeting is going to last for 2-3 hours so you set that time aside. The meeting begins with some friendly discussions about the property. The conversation turns towards the business they shall be operating from the property. They talk enthusiastically and at length about their business model and the way the business is structured. You listen intently, captured by what they say. Then, 3 hours later the meeting has finished. You leave the meeting having agreed to accept their initial offer and, not only that, you are now an agent for Amway...

[davejones]

agent is telling me to meet the buyer to talk about the price. Says I should have 2 to 3 hours for the meeting. why 2,3 hours? is that normal or they just wanna get you tired and hopefully you will agree and sign the papers?

LOL. I wouldn't meet them at all to discuss. You make a counter offer, and they either accept or reject. I've bought and sold plenty of property and have never had anyone suggest a meeting. There is nothing to discuss. Takes a few mins to agree on a price or not. What the hell is the agent expecting you to discuss for 2-3 hours? Sounds like bad advice to me.

[Thaiaddict01]

agent is telling me to meet the buyer to talk about the price. Says I should have 2 to 3 hours for the meeting. why 2,3 hours? is that normal or they just wanna get you tired and hopefully you will agree and sign the papers?

LOL. I wouldn't meet them at all to discuss. You make a counter offer, and they either accept or reject. I've bought and sold plenty of property and have never had anyone suggest a meeting. There is nothing to discuss. Takes a few mins to agree on a price or not. What the hell is the agent expecting you to discuss for 2-3 hours? Sounds like bad advice to me.

Yeah I told my agent to tell them to up their offer, then I will consider going to the meeting. But now I think about it I don't need to go to the meeting at all, agent should do it for us over the phone lol.

So they made an offer that's 15% below my offer, how it's usually done is we meet at the half way point right? it's rare for seller or buyer to insist on their original offer to the end right?

so on average how many months should a house get sold in an so-so market? 6 months? and if it's a so-so market how many offers should you get over a 6 months period? This house is kind of big, it's like a clinic small hospital building. So the potential buyers are limited vs single family houses. thanks again guys you are really helpful so far!

[davejones]

agent is telling me to meet the buyer to talk about the price. Says I should have 2 to 3 hours for the meeting. why 2,3 hours? is that normal or they just wanna get you tired and hopefully you will agree and sign the papers?

LOL. I wouldn't meet them at all to discuss. You make a counter offer, and they either accept or reject. I've bought and sold plenty of property and have never had anyone suggest a meeting. There is nothing to discuss. Takes a few mins to agree on a price or not. What the hell is the agent expecting you to discuss for 2-3 hours? Sounds like bad advice to me.

Yeah I told my agent to tell them to up their offer, then I will consider going to the meeting. But now I think about it I don't need to go to the meeting at all, agent should do it for us over the phone lol.

So they made an offer that's 15% below my offer, how it's usually done is we meet at the half way point right? it's rare for seller or buyer to insist on their original offer to the end right?

so on average how many months should a house get sold in an so-so market? 6 months? and if it's a so-so market how many offers should you get over a 6 months period? This house is kind of big, it's like a clinic small hospital building. So the potential buyers are limited vs single family houses. thanks again guys you are really helpful so far!

Either the seller or buyer can insist on whatever price they like. As a buyer, I've rarely upped my offer, because I offer what it's worth to me. When I bought the condo that was my home for 10 years I would have given much more if the seller had asked. I've walked away from more deals than I've completed, because the price wasn't right for me.

As a sell, I'm flexible with price if I really want to sell. Sold a house in Croatia recently for 15% under my asking price, because market was almost dead and I wasn't likely to get a better offer for over a year. Many were surprised that I actually got an offer at all. With one London condo, a neighbor offered full market value (based on other sales), even though it wasn't on sale at the time. I asked for 20% more and refused to budge, because I'm confident it will rise at least that much over next few years, and I don't have anywhere better to invest the money.

So that's just me. Different properties give rise to different attitudes. You talk as if there is some unwritten rule along the lines of you want 5, they offer 4, so you agree on 4.5. If that were true then sellers would just inflate asking prices and buyers would offer much less. This is the real world. Everyone is different, and all buyers and sellers have their own reasons to buy and sell. In your case, you have no idea if the seller will offer more. Maybe is is desperate for this property but trying not to show it. Maybe he has other properties lined up and will buy one of those if you up ask for me. Maybe he can only make his business work with this offer. Maybe he can only get funding for the amount he offered. Each case is different. But all you have to decide is what's acceptable to you. I never worry about these things. I always know what I am willing to pay or sell for. I try to do a bit better, but I know where the line is.

Is the offer good enough for you. If it is, then ask for a little more and see what he says. He can only say no. If the offer is not acceptable, then tell him so, and ask him to make a better offer. And walk away if he says no. Only you know how eager you are to sell. How long has the house been on the market? How many people have expressed interest or made an offer?

Don't start wondering what others do. Just do what's right for you.

[NeverSure]

Remember "face" is sooo important to Thai people and they must get some reduction to be seen to be doing a deal.

What nonsense. This is a universal human trait. Which is why you see all those discount offers and reduction sale and stock clearance sale everywhere in the world.

I was going to chime in on this universal trait but you beat me. If you don't counter with at least something better than your asking price, their pride may cause them to walk.

Now, what's this about a face to face meeting? No way. That's what realtors are most valuable for. They keep the negotiations from becoming personal, which is another way to kill a deal. You make a counter offer and the realtor takes it back to the buyer. There's nothing personal with the realtor, he's just relaying information. Same if he comes back to you.

[Thaiaddict01]

Agent is asking me to meet them again, in different ways. They really want me to meet them for some reason. I am going to tell my agent to make them up their offer some, then I will consider meeting them. what do you guys think about that? and also drop my price some to see if they will respond and up their offer some. IF they don't up anything..maybe their offer is their max? what do you guys think? thanks

[davejones]

Remember "face" is sooo important to Thai people and they must get some reduction to be seen to be doing a deal.

What nonsense. This is a universal human trait. Which is why you see all those discount offers and reduction sale and stock clearance sale everywhere in the world.

I was going to chime in on this universal trait but you beat me. If you don't counter with at least something better than your asking price, their pride may cause them to walk.

Now, what's this about a face to face meeting? No way. That's what realtors are most valuable for. They keep the negotiations from becoming personal, which is another way to kill a deal. You make a counter offer and the realtor takes it back to the buyer. There's nothing personal with the realtor, he's just relaying information. Same if he comes back to you.

What a load of <deleted>. I've had a few first offers accept way below the asking price. I was very happy indeed. I did wonder if I could have got the properties for less, but the deal worked for me. Why the hell would you walk away from a great deal if the seller accepted your first offer. Only a crazy person would do that. I don't know anyone that would do that.

[davejones]

Agent is asking me to meet them again, in different ways. They really want me to meet them for some reason. I am going to tell my agent to make them up their offer some, then I will consider meeting them. what do you guys think about that? and also drop my price some to see if they will respond and up their offer some. IF they don't up anything..maybe their offer is their max? what do you guys think? thanks

You have no way of knowing any of these answers. This is the agents job. When I've been in this situation I've asked the agent to find. Nearly always they'll have at least some idea of what the buyer is thinking. If the agent can't handle a simple negotiation like this, then you should find another one. This is the job of the agent. He wants you to meet the buyer because that means he doesn't have to do his job.

You need to have a figure in mind that you will sell for. Then ask the agent what he thinks the buyer will offer. If you think the offer's too low, just give a ballpark figure to the agent and tell him to negotiate on your behalf. That's his job. Not yours.

If this is the only offer you've had, then I'd try to get a little more, but even if I didn't get it, I'd accept the offer. All depends how eager you are to sell. There's no right or wrong. I've seen condos and house for sale for years in Thailand. So if you don't take the offer, you could be stuck with it for a few more years. Difficult decision, but only one that you can make, as it's your money. I'd accept, but that's me. But if the buyer really wants it it may up the offer a little at least.

Edited March 5, 2013 by davejones

[dave111223]

Don't accept the offer, at least counter-offer, even if your counter-offer is 14% below your asking. If you accept their price straight up they will assume they could have got it for less, and maybe will even retract their offer and offer you even less.

Remember to bring tax in the negotiations. For example "I'll accept a 10% reduction, but you pay 100% the transfer taxes". When you bring more variables in the negotiation equation it gives an advantage to the person who did their homework.

[xylophone]

Quote davejones: "You need to have a figure in mind that you will sell for'.

This in my mind is key to the whole scenario. Firstly as has already been mentioned, there is no real way of getting a true "valuation" on anything in Thailand, however by comparing previous sales of similar buildings of similar age and quality, one can get an idea of what is attainable. And even when you have done the best homework possible, there are always some "fools" who have just come off the aeroplane with a pocket full of money and no sense, who may well pay well over the odds for something thereby distorting the supposed market price.

You know what price you want for it, and hopefully that is a reasonable price based on all that you know, then you have to set your lower limit, i e. the lowest price that you will actually accept (and don't forget that there are taxes payable so include these in the calculations) and will feel ok with. Work between your lowest acceptable price and your asking price to give you an idea of where you will eventually end up.

There is an old saying that in negotiations, "one should leave something for everyone on the table". By that it means that if you are prepared to drop your price a little, then you have put something on the table for the purchaser, and if the purchaser decides to accept that price and not to screw you down too much, then he has left something on the table for you. That way the negotiation is a win-win and "face" is kept all round.

Good luck with your endeavours.

[davejones]

Quote davejones: "You need to have a figure in mind that you will sell for'.

This in my mind is key to the whole scenario. Firstly as has already been mentioned, there is no real way of getting a true "valuation" on anything in Thailand, however by comparing previous sales of similar buildings of similar age and quality, one can get an idea of what is attainable. And even when you have done the best homework possible, there are always some "fools" who have just come off the aeroplane with a pocket full of money and no sense, who may well pay well over the odds for something thereby distorting the supposed market price.

You know what price you want for it, and hopefully that is a reasonable price based on all that you know, then you have to set your lower limit, i e. the lowest price that you will actually accept (and don't forget that there are taxes payable so include these in the calculations) and will feel ok with. Work between your lowest acceptable price and your asking price to give you an idea of where you will eventually end up.

There is an old saying that in negotiations, "one should leave something for everyone on the table". By that it means that if you are prepared to drop your price a little, then you have put something on the table for the purchaser, and if the purchaser decides to accept that price and not to screw you down too much, then he has left something on the table for you. That way the negotiation is a win-win and "face" is kept all round.

Good luck with your endeavours.

Two good pieces of advice here.

[473geo]

Perhaps if it is a 'company' purchase they are looking for a 'cash back' scenario....hence the meeting requirement

[USNret]

Forget about that 1/2 way thing, and also you do not need to tell them to offer more. They have made an offer already, now the ball is in your court. What you do next is to make a counter-offer, somewhat less than your original price but somewhat more than their offer. You & your agent need to decide how much your counter-offer will be. You simply make the counter-offer (in writing, no meeting required) then sit back & see what the buyer does.

It's like reeling in a fish. Give them a little line, don't jerk them so hard that they get away but reel them in gently. They want to feel like
they're getting a bargain, and this is done by you reducing your price somewhat.

Hey, you are paying your agent for advice, right? What is he telling you to do & why are you seeking advice on TV? Your agent should be suggesting the next move. He's the expert on this.

[Thaiaddict01]

very good tips guys, I have read all of your posts and took notes.

well I told my agent I am going to drop 4%, then he said the buyer's company is going to need to have a meeting and talk about it. So if I meet them in person, the entire board/team will be there? I doubt it. You can never know exactly what the agents tell the buyer and the seller. Maybe a lot of lies

[dave111223]

very good tips guys, I have read all of your posts and took notes.

well I told my agent I am going to drop 4%, then he said the buyer's company is going to need to have a meeting and talk about it. So if I meet them in person, the entire board/team will be there? I doubt it. You can never know exactly what the agents tell the buyer and the seller. Maybe a lot of lies

Sounds pretty weird. There is no point meeting them until a price is agreed, then you can meet to sign contracts and hash out the fine details (timeline, deposit, taxes etc..)

I'd ditch the agent, sounds like a muppet.

[davejones]

very good tips guys, I have read all of your posts and took notes.

well I told my agent I am going to drop 4%, then he said the buyer's company is going to need to have a meeting and talk about it. So if I meet them in person, the entire board/team will be there? I doubt it. You can never know exactly what the agents tell the buyer and the seller. Maybe a lot of lies

They will have already discussed what the maximum they can offer is. They aren't going to have a meeting every time you suggest a new price. Maybe the agent is getting a cut of the money if he can get you to accept a low price. Even if they are having a meeting, that's their decision, and nothing to you can do about it.

[Thaiaddict01]

well well well I went down about 3.5% from my listing price and they go up 7% from their first offer. So it's very good. We are almost at the middle point. I will either take this offer, or add 1.5% to their 2nd offer to make it in the middle point. This 1.5% is pretty small I think they will accept it. Or just insist on their 2nd offer. No way they will just forget about it all and not buy right? thanks guys you let me know what's going on in the game and possibly saved me a lot of money! this is awesome a lot of great advices from all of you.

[davejones]

well well well I went down about 3.5% from my listing price and they go up 7% from their first offer. So it's very good. We are almost at the middle point. I will either take this offer, or add 1.5% to their 2nd offer to make it in the middle point. This 1.5% is pretty small I think they will accept it. Or just insist on their 2nd offer. No way they will just forget about it all and not buy right? thanks guys you let me know what's going on in the game and possibly saved me a lot of money! this is awesome a lot of great advices from all of you.

That's great news. Sounds like they are really interested. They also seem to realize that you're not going to take an offer that's too low. Good luck, and well done.