Thai Soldier Tells Bangkok Court Of ' Men In Black'

[webfact]

POLITICS
Soldier tells court of 'men in black'
Kesinee Taengkhiao
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- In his testimony to the Criminal Court yesterday, an Army lieutenant said that he saw two "men in black" hiding behind a Skytrain pillar near the Ratchaprasong intersection when six people were killed inside Wat Pathum Wanaram on May 19, 2010.

Lieutenant Pisanu Thadkaew, an officer from Company 31 of the Second Infantry Battalion, was testifying at the South Bangkok Criminal Court as part of an inquiry into the six deaths. The victims were Suwan Sriraksa, 30; Atthachai Chumjan, 28; Mongkol Khemthong, 36; Rop Suksathit, 66; Kamolkade Akkahad, 25; and Akkhedet Khankaew.

They were killed when troops were deployed to secure the area around Ratchaprasong intersection on May 19, 2010.

Pisanu explained that two teams of soldiers were deployed to provide protection to firefighters and fire engines following reports that firefighters had been shot while trying to contain the blaze at CentralWorld.

He said the troops assembled at National Stadium before moving to the Ratchaprasong intersection and the area in front of the temple, adding that one 20-soldier team secured the area along Siam Square, while his team, comprising 28 soldiers, moved across the road to Siam Paragon.

He went on to say that another set of troops joined to provide protection in the centre, from the BTS track.

Pisanu said that when his team moved into the area under the Siam BTS station, he saw two armed men in black hiding behind a pillar about 200 or 300 metres from troops. He said that one of these men in black fled the scene upon seeing the soldiers, but the other fired at troops using an M16 assault rifle.

Pisanu said he returned fire and the man ran in the direction of the Chalerm Pao intersection.


-- The Nation 2013-03-08

[yoshiwara]

We look forward to the forum red apologists putting a spin on this story.

Fake blackshirts will be a good one.

[CelticBhoy]

Will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones?

[smutcakes]

We look forward to the forum red apologists putting a spin on this story.

Fake blackshirts will be a good one.

Well hes not exactly going to say there were no enemy there was he, after all he and his mates had just mowed down 6 unarmed civilians in the Wat.

On a serious note, there have been numerous reports on this subject, has this soldiers testimony been received before? I have not seen it mentioned, in fact the army seemingly have gone to lengths to prevent its personnel taking part in investigations into events, so why has this soldier now come out and testified?

[Mampara]

Why this and why that, if this and if that, if you are not sure about a subject don't give negative comments.

[reiltin]

Fake red shirts burning,fake black shirts shooting......-real blood in the temple,6 real nurses corpses.

“How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.”

― Abraham Lincoln

[Katipo]

'Black Shirts' did exist. We saw them on video. We saw them shoot the soldier pulled down from that truck.

Given the tensions and chaos caused by the red shorts and their kind, I still maintain the govt. and army were very restrained.

Dragging it out for political points is selfish and doesn't heal any wounds. No senior army officials will be punished. The aim is only to discredit Abshit and his government. Focus attention on genuinely unifying the country instead of these smoke and mirrors.

[Robby nz]

If I remember correctly there was a photo on another subject on this site of exactly the incident described by the officer.

That is 2 black shirts hiding behind a sky train pillar and shooting into the temple.

Perhaps someone who is good at that sort of thing could hunt it down and post it again

[OzMick]

We look forward to the forum red apologists putting a spin on this story.

Fake blackshirts will be a good one.

Well hes not exactly going to say there were no enemy there was he, after all he and his mates had just mowed down 6 unarmed civilians in the Wat.

On a serious note, there have been numerous reports on this subject, has this soldiers testimony been received before? I have not seen it mentioned, in fact the army seemingly have gone to lengths to prevent its personnel taking part in investigations into events, so why has this soldier now come out and testified?

Do you have some sort of mental impairment that would lead you to believe that putting on a green uniform turns a person into a homicidal maniac? it is a matter of historical fact that it is quite difficult to train troops to take human life. Yet you unreservedly accept that a group of soldiers would kill innocent and unarmed people in a declared security refuge that they would have been well aware of.

Why would they do that, what is the benefit to them? Thrill killing - because I very much doubt that they were being paid a bonus for the number killed?

OTOH it is clearly demonstrated that this event has been used to vilify the RTA and the Democrat government. Who has benefitted?

[mistitikimikis]

I'm always full of question-marks when I see a specific photo of at least two men situated at the lower traject of the Skytrain (Siam - Mo Chit) pointing rifles at the wat. The photo is quit clear and must have been made from a high point (even a bit above the level of the traject Siam - Rachadamri) from the side of the Royal Thai Police headquarters

[OzMick]

I'm always full of question-marks when I see a specific photo of at least two men situated at the lower traject of the Skytrain (Siam - Mo Chit) pointing rifles at the wat. The photo is quit clear and must have been made from a high point (even a bit above the level of the traject Siam - Rachadamri) from the side of the Royal Thai Police headquarters

Chalerm did indicate that was where they were based.

[GazR]

The bi-partisan enquiry concluded that there were 5 MIB - all five on the Red Shirt side.

Of course, once this unfavorable (to Thaksin) conclusion was made it was rejected by the govt.

But that's Thaksin's MO: Courts are always right when they make judgements which favor him, and always politically motivated when they don't.

Pass me the rotten tomatoes!

[Pimay1]

Chalerm said he knew who the men in black were. Then he said there were no men in black. Needs more ear medicine.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Men-in-black-are-policemen-Chalerm-claims-30171725.html

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Chalerm-queries-men-in-black-claim-30190453.html

[coma]

This is very solid testimony by a government emloyed witness which will make it hard for the CC judges to ignore.

[dighambara]

'Black Shirts' did exist. We saw them on video. We saw them shoot the soldier pulled down from that truck.

Given the tensions and chaos caused by the red shorts and their kind, I still maintain the govt. and army were very restrained.

Dragging it out for political points is selfish and doesn't heal any wounds. No senior army officials will be punished. The aim is only to discredit Abshit and his government. Focus attention on genuinely unifying the country instead of these smoke and mirrors.

What people don't seem to consider is why there were 'Black shirts'.

They didn't do the Red shirt side any favors and they certainly didn't advance the Army's position.

Meaning, if logic has any bearing, the black shirts were serving another purpose and a very limited number of people gained from what they did.

The obvious person to gain any political points from their activties was a fellow hiding outside the country - ??? Hired Thugs ???

Edited March 8, 2013 by dighambara

[JSPS]

Given the sheer number of people with video cameras, cell phones etc and the scrutiny directed toward the government troops, if any "massacre" by government troops occured it was surely the best covert operation in the history of the world.

[Robby nz]

I'm always full of question-marks when I see a specific photo of at least two men situated at the lower traject of the Skytrain (Siam - Mo Chit) pointing rifles at the wat. The photo is quit clear and must have been made from a high point (even a bit above the level of the traject Siam - Rachadamri) from the side of the Royal Thai Police headquarters

It would seem someone else remembers that photo also.

I remember the Govt and the army declaring the temple a safe area but cant remember the red shirt leadership ever doing the same, did they or not?

Perhaps they were to busy getting their hands in the air or running away to save that last drop of blood they promised to fight to.

[seajae]

everyone knows thaksin used the red shirts for his own personal benefit in this, makes sense that he would also hire "hitmen" to cause the rest of the problems in the vain hopes of getting himself back into the country. Nothing is beyond this man, everything he does revolves around money and what he wants to happen in Thailand, paying the red shiorts and black shirts to do his dirty work was and still is very much a part of his agenda.

[Nickymaster]

'Black Shirts' did exist. We saw them on video. We saw them shoot the soldier pulled down from that truck.

Given the tensions and chaos caused by the red shorts and their kind, I still maintain the govt. and army were very restrained.

Dragging it out for political points is selfish and doesn't heal any wounds. No senior army officials will be punished. The aim is only to discredit Abshit and his government. Focus attention on genuinely unifying the country instead of these smoke and mirrors.

What people don't seem to consider is why there were 'Black shirts'.

They didn't do the Red shirt side any favors and they certainly didn't advance the Army's position.

Meaning, if logic has any bearing, the black shirts were serving another purpose and a very limited number of people gained from what they did.

The obvious person to gain any political points from their activties was a fellow hiding outside the country - ??? Hired Thugs ???

The men in black’s role was to instigate violence in order for the army to come out (with guns). They hide among red shirts, shoot at security forces and then run away.

When the security forces return fire Thaksin can say: "Trigger happy army kills innocent peaceful protestors" Thaksin's strategy of course is very risky because his "own" people might get shot....but….

Edited March 8, 2013 by Nickymaster

[Arkady]

This is potentially an interesting case. Some Thai journalists have said the government has been avoiding it and going for low hanging fruit like the taxi driver Abhisit and Suthep have been accused of murdering instead because they were scared of offending powerful persons.

I assumed they meant that the trail would lead too directly to the military high command but perhaps it will lead to black shirts. Anyway the word of one lieutenant who was personally involved in the firing doesn't have a lot of credibility.

No doubt whatever is controversial will be carefully skirted around in favour of a white wash which that doesn't assign blame to anyone.

The mother of the nurse shot dead by the army in the temple while tending the wounded has declared she is in favour of an amnesty. So presumably it no longer matters to her who killed her daughter or why. She has subordinated herself to the interests of the greater force that caused the riots and burning in the first place.

[Arkady]

'Black Shirts' did exist. We saw them on video. We saw them shoot the soldier pulled down from that truck.

Given the tensions and chaos caused by the red shorts and their kind, I still maintain the govt. and army were very restrained.

Dragging it out for political points is selfish and doesn't heal any wounds. No senior army officials will be punished. The aim is only to discredit Abshit and his government. Focus attention on genuinely unifying the country instead of these smoke and mirrors.

What people don't seem to consider is why there were 'Black shirts'.

They didn't do the Red shirt side any favors and they certainly didn't advance the Army's position.

Meaning, if logic has any bearing, the black shirts were serving another purpose and a very limited number of people gained from what they did.

The obvious person to gain any political points from their activties was a fellow hiding outside the country - ??? Hired Thugs ???

The men in black’s role was to instigate violence in order for the army to come out (with guns). They hide among red shirts, shoot at security forces and then run away.

When the security forces return fire Thaksin can say: "Trigger happy army kills innocent peaceful protestors" Thaksin's strategy of course is very risky because his "own" people might get shot....but….

Also bear in mind that the army had defeated the red shirts in Bangkok the year before without shooting to kill. Firing blanks in the air was enough to scare the reds away.

The army is very leaky and the red commanders knew well that the army would try to use the same tactics again in 2010. It is a matter of public record that the the red foot soldiers were told repeatedly to stand their ground because the army had orders to fire blanks just like hte previous year. So it was a no brainer to infiltrate gunmen amidst the the red rank and file, that would stand its ground, to take pot shots at unsuspecting army units and run away. When they realise they are taking fire the army commanders will always authorise live fire and rank and file protestors will be killed. That is straight out of the Provisional IRA's manual from the late 60s and early 70s.

The military was infiltrated, probably by officers who recruited and organised the black shirts, but military intelligence either hadn't a clue what the reds were planning or knew but prevented the information from going up the pipe. The result was that the military and the government were totally outflanked and manipulated by an utterly ruthless enemy who was more than willing to cause casualties on his own side as well as the military, not to mention the appalling attacks on policemen and the grenades fired on pro-government protestors in Silom Road.

Edited March 8, 2013 by Arkady

[mistitikimikis]

Referring to the photo I mentioned, it's amazing that from the side where the photo has been "shot" there wasn't an immidiate reaction to shoot at those men pointing their riffles to the wat-premises.............. (weapons and snipers enough around at that time)

[Robby nz]

The mother of the nurse shot dead by the army in the temple while tending the wounded

Here we have that completely unproven assumption again, straight from the redshirt book.

We have a photo and evidence that there were men in black pointing weapons at the temple yet still the red shirt version (Thaksins) persists without any proof.

Before you post this again as fact show some proof.

Who was it that said "if you tell a lie often enough people will start to believe you". Hitler I think.

[bigbamboo]

The mother of the nurse shot dead by the army in the temple while tending the wounded

Here we have that completely unproven assumption again, straight from the redshirt book.

We have a photo and evidence that there were men in black pointing weapons at the temple yet still the red shirt version (Thaksins) persists without any proof.

Before you post this again as fact show some proof.

Who was it that said "if you tell a lie often enough people will start to believe you". Hitler I think.

It was Thaksin, wasn't it?

[mistitikimikis]

Again amazing that I estimate to hear in general more negative comments about "our fugitive" (NOT my favorite by the way) than about Abhisit and his partner Suthep ("I don't respect farangs")

[Robby nz]

Again amazing that I estimate to hear in general more negative comments about "our fugitive" (NOT my favorite by the way) than about Abhisit and his partner Suthep ("I don't respect farangs")

Is that really so surprising?

Are Abhisit or Suthep convicted crims on the run trying to run this country from the other side of the world?

Me I respect good people regardless of race.

Sorry mods off topic again.

[mistitikimikis]

You yes, and Suthep??? ‘I don’t respect ‘farangs’. We do not have to surrender to them‘

[Tatsujin]

I clearly remember seeing "armed black shirts" live on Thai TV coverage at the time, and still shots also . . . not seen the footage or shots anywhere since.

[billd766]

We look forward to the forum red apologists putting a spin on this story.

Fake blackshirts will be a good one.

Well hes not exactly going to say there were no enemy there was he, after all he and his mates had just mowed down 6 unarmed civilians in the Wat.

On a serious note, there have been numerous reports on this subject, has this soldiers testimony been received before? I have not seen it mentioned, in fact the army seemingly have gone to lengths to prevent its personnel taking part in investigations into events, so why has this soldier now come out and testified?

Sigh. Do you have ANY proof at all that this soldier and his mates did exactly what you say they did?

Any PROVABLE eveidence at all because if you do please publish it and the whole of PTP will be on your side and so will I and many others.

On the other hand if you DON'T have any proof are you calling this soldier a liar? After all he was supposedly there on the scene at the time.

Were you there at that time and place?

If you were and saw what happened please accept my sincere apologies, however, if you weren't then please stop telling lies.

[cup-O-coffee]

We look forward to the forum red apologists putting a spin on this story.

Fake blackshirts will be a good one.

Well hes not exactly going to say there were no enemy there was he, after all he and his mates had just mowed down 6 unarmed civilians in the Wat.

On a serious note, there have been numerous reports on this subject, has this soldiers testimony been received before? I have not seen it mentioned, in fact the army seemingly have gone to lengths to prevent its personnel taking part in investigations into events, so why has this soldier now come out and testified?

Sigh. Do you have ANY proof at all that this soldier and his mates did exactly what you say they did?

Any PROVABLE eveidence at all because if you do please publish it and the whole of PTP will be on your side and so will I and many others.

On the other hand if you DON'T have any proof are you calling this soldier a liar? After all he was supposedly there on the scene at the time.

Were you there at that time and place?

If you were and saw what happened please accept my sincere apologies, however, if you weren't then please stop telling lies.

I sure do agree with your sentiment, but the Thais took the proverb of the "Boy Who Cried Wolf" and changed it to "The Thai Who Uttered". They pretty much have shot themselves in the foot when it comes to expecting people to believe them on the basis of what they say and that alone. I don't know when they are lying or telling the truth. It is as simple as that. Calling any Thai a liar is now fair game, and anyone who has been here long enough knows that flat out lying is part of their chemistry. Calling a Thai a liar, or even thinking it, and the fact that they are a Thai is all the proof I need, until proven otherwise. It's much safer that way for those who know better.