Norwegian Stein Dokset Accused Of Murder Refuses To Give Testimony: Phuket

[stevenl]

Do Thai courts have recognised interpreters, or are they accepting anybody who claims to speak the Thai and English?

Seems like it.

Would you like tea or coffee? Yes.

You gave the same non sensical answer.

[craigt3365]

An off topic post has been removed from view. Please stay on topic.

[keestha]

webfact, on 09 Mar 2013 - 09:18, said:

[

After a six-hour wait, the judge informed the court that an English-Thai translator was not available.

Remembering his posts, written in poor English, a Norwegian-Thai translator would be more appropriate. Sure he would be able to conduct a conversation in English, but when it is about translating court proceedings there should be no room for misunderstandings. Reckon if I would run into similar trouble in say Australia, they would at least offer me a Dutch-English translator.

[bunta71]

This is not a case of if he killed her but the circumstances under which he killed her. The guy has admitted he killed his girlfriend during a fight and has admitted to hiding the body for years in his home.

Presumed innocence is simply a legal term (for the court rooms) which means a defendant shouldn't have to prove his innocence but rather the state needs to prove his guilt. Presumed innocence also only applies to those actually judging the accused including judges, all over the world, who often hold these "innocent" people in jail before and during trial.

Can you imagine telling a loved one, such a daughter that has been raped, that they have to believe their attacker is innocent unless the judge says otherwise?

I could be wrong but when people bring up presumed innocence and try to act as though it applies to people expressing opinions outside of court, such as on a discussion forum, I think they know better and for whatever reason just don't want to believe in the person's guilt but for whatever reason are incapable or unwilling to share their reasons for this desired belief. I think maybe most of us have played this card at one time or another when for whatever reason we just didn't want to believe in somebody's guilt despite overwhelming information saying differently.

I think you missed this from the OP:

"When he was arrested by the Thai federal police last year, Dokset explained that June had died accidentally during a scuffle in which she hit her head on the wall and fallen down the stairs."

Accidental killing? Manslaughter? Premeditated murder?

I'm not playing any cards. I don't want to believe anything. I would be interested only in the truth.

You guys aren't interested in the truth as you cling to your beliefs. Your belief is that he must have killed her because of the way he disposed of the body. There will never be any physical evidence to prove it one way or the other so there is reasonable doubt, isn't there?

I agree with you up to where you mentioned reasonable doubt. There is no word in the Thai language for " reason" or "reasonable". If these words did exist, and if it were truly understood, they would simply not carry the weight here as in other countries.

[keestha]

There is no word in the Thai language for " reason" or "reasonable".

100% untrue, in the Thai language there are perfect equivalents for those two words. Just repeat your statement in the Thai language forum, and see what happens. I don't want to break the rules by posting in Thai here. Edited March 9, 2013 by keestha

[tropo]

This is not a case of if he killed her but the circumstances under which he killed her. The guy has admitted he killed his girlfriend during a fight and has admitted to hiding the body for years in his home.

Presumed innocence is simply a legal term (for the court rooms) which means a defendant shouldn't have to prove his innocence but rather the state needs to prove his guilt. Presumed innocence also only applies to those actually judging the accused including judges, all over the world, who often hold these "innocent" people in jail before and during trial.

Can you imagine telling a loved one, such a daughter that has been raped, that they have to believe their attacker is innocent unless the judge says otherwise?

I could be wrong but when people bring up presumed innocence and try to act as though it applies to people expressing opinions outside of court, such as on a discussion forum, I think they know better and for whatever reason just don't want to believe in the person's guilt but for whatever reason are incapable or unwilling to share their reasons for this desired belief. I think maybe most of us have played this card at one time or another when for whatever reason we just didn't want to believe in somebody's guilt despite overwhelming information saying differently.

I think you missed this from the OP:

"When he was arrested by the Thai federal police last year, Dokset explained that June had died accidentally during a scuffle in which she hit her head on the wall and fallen down the stairs."

Accidental killing? Manslaughter? Premeditated murder?

I'm not playing any cards. I don't want to believe anything. I would be interested only in the truth.

You guys aren't interested in the truth as you cling to your beliefs.

What do you think I missed? As I said, he has admitted to killing her during a fight and also admitted to hiding the body for years. As I stated in the first line of my post "This is not a case of if he killed her but the circumstances under which he killed her."

So, I am not really sure what you think I missed because what you are quoting only confirms what I wrote.

It's pretty obvious what you missed:

"June had died accidentally during a scuffle in which she hit her head on the wall and fallen down the stairs."

[tropo]

This is not a case of if he killed her but the circumstances under which he killed her. The guy has admitted he killed his girlfriend during a fight and has admitted to hiding the body for years in his home.

Presumed innocence is simply a legal term (for the court rooms) which means a defendant shouldn't have to prove his innocence but rather the state needs to prove his guilt. Presumed innocence also only applies to those actually judging the accused including judges, all over the world, who often hold these "innocent" people in jail before and during trial.

Can you imagine telling a loved one, such a daughter that has been raped, that they have to believe their attacker is innocent unless the judge says otherwise?

I could be wrong but when people bring up presumed innocence and try to act as though it applies to people expressing opinions outside of court, such as on a discussion forum, I think they know better and for whatever reason just don't want to believe in the person's guilt but for whatever reason are incapable or unwilling to share their reasons for this desired belief. I think maybe most of us have played this card at one time or another when for whatever reason we just didn't want to believe in somebody's guilt despite overwhelming information saying differently.

I think you missed this from the OP:

"When he was arrested by the Thai federal police last year, Dokset explained that June had died accidentally during a scuffle in which she hit her head on the wall and fallen down the stairs."

There will never be any physical evidence to prove it one way or the other so there is reasonable doubt, isn't there?

So, his wrongdoing, hiding the body, lying about all and not inform the authorities, servers him now well,

if the circumstances of the death had not been so innocent as he is stating?

So you're suggesting that he should be convicted by default - because of what he did with the body?

[rct99q]

There are/is a minimum of two people who know the truth. One of the person/s who knows the truth is unable to tell us what happened as they are dead..

Who speaks for June.

Thinking of this ladies last moments being confronted by this big hulking man, having her head pushed against a wall severe enough to cause her to fall down a flight of stairs. At which time she may or may not still be alive. And being disposed of like a used tissue in a trash can. The fear, pain and confusion that must have been running through her mind at that moment. She deserved better than to have been thrown away like some leftover pizza into a garbage pail and left there (possibly still alive) to rot!

Let's call him innocent until she can provide her side of the details in a court of law.......

[tropo]

There are/is a minimum of two people who know the truth. One of the person/s who knows the truth is unable to tell us what happened as they are dead..

Who speaks for June.

Thinking of this ladies last moments being confronted by this big hulking man, having her head pushed against a wall severe enough to cause her to fall down a flight of stairs. At which time she may or may not still be alive. And being disposed of like a used tissue in a trash can. The fear, pain and confusion that must have been running through her mind at that moment. She deserved better than to have been thrown away like some leftover pizza into a garbage pail and left there (possibly still alive) to rot!

Let's call him innocent until she can provide her side of the details in a court of law.......

No matter how emotional a picture you paint, you still can't send a guy to prison for life or execute him without concrete evidence.

[Kripe]

"June had died accidentally during a scuffle in which she hit her head on the wall and fallen down the stairs."

We will never know if it was an accident - it could be!!

IF it was an accident Dokset should have reported it as an accident, he didn't. Why? He could be afraid he would be charged with murder...

They might have had a fight, she could have fallen down the stairs, she died - but that might not have been Dokset's intentions!!

Nomatter what. she is dead, if it was all an accident the most stupid thing to do was to hide the body - this alone make Dokset look guilty nomatter what happend.

If there are NO evidence to what happend, and he claim it was an accident, he will most likely face charges for 1, Cause her death 2, Disposal of her body 3, Other charges that fit under the Thai legal system.

I doubt he would be convicted for 1st degree murder if NO evidence is present.

RIP June - a shame you are not here to tell your side of what happened.

[Radar501]

Mr. Dokset is still looking very well nourished after nine months in the slammer.

They must be feeding him more than rice and maggots.

[transam]

"June had died accidentally during a scuffle in which she hit her head on the wall and fallen down the stairs."

We will never know if it was an accident - it could be!!

IF it was an accident Dokset should have reported it as an accident, he didn't. Why? He could be afraid he would be charged with murder...

They might have had a fight, she could have fallen down the stairs, she died - but that might not have been Dokset's intentions!!

Nomatter what. she is dead, if it was all an accident the most stupid thing to do was to hide the body - this alone make Dokset look guilty nomatter what happend.

If there are NO evidence to what happend, and he claim it was an accident, he will most likely face charges for 1, Cause her death 2, Disposal of her body 3, Other charges that fit under the Thai legal system.

I doubt he would be convicted for 1st degree murder if NO evidence is present.

RIP June - a shame you are not here to tell your side of what happened.

The thing that sticks in my mind, and always has been, regardless of what he has said to minimize how it looks is, did he put ''some'' parts of the lady in the bin and was the bin his.

[rct99q]

There are/is a minimum of two people who know the truth. One of the person/s who knows the truth is unable to tell us what happened as they are dead..

Who speaks for June.

Thinking of this ladies last moments being confronted by this big hulking man, having her head pushed against a wall severe enough to cause her to fall down a flight of stairs. At which time she may or may not still be alive. And being disposed of like a used tissue in a trash can. The fear, pain and confusion that must have been running through her mind at that moment. She deserved better than to have been thrown away like some leftover pizza into a garbage pail and left there (possibly still alive) to rot!

Let's call him innocent until she can provide her side of the details in a court of law.......

No matter how emotional a picture you paint, you still can't send a guy to prison for life or execute him without concrete evidence.

Never stated his guilt. I stated let's call him innocent until proven guilty. Junes side of the story will be told by the prosecutors and it will be up to a judge to determine if he/she believes Junes story or the Norwegians.

[bunta71]

There is no word in the Thai language for " reason" or "reasonable".

100% untrue, in the Thai language there are perfect equivalents for those two words. Just repeat your statement in the Thai language forum, and see what happens. I don't want to break the rules by posting in Thai here.

I was being facetious in the first part but I seriously stick with the latter premise.

[KarenBravo]

Accident or not, with her death, her family would have inherited all the properties and he would have lost his income stream.

That's why she ended up where she did.

[KarenBravo]

The thing that sticks in my mind, and always has been, regardless of what he has said to minimize how it looks is, did he put ''some'' parts of the lady in the bin and was the bin his.

He admitted it putting the body in the wheelie-bin and even did a reconstruction.

As he was the only person with the keys to rooms he hid the bin in, how could it be anyone elses bin?

[transam]

The thing that sticks in my mind, and always has been, regardless of what he has said to minimize how it looks is, did he put ''some'' parts of the lady in the bin and was the bin his.

He admitted it putting the body in the wheelie-bin and even did a reconstruction.

As he was the only person with the keys to rooms he hid the bin in, how could it be anyone elses bin?

He had the only keys, how do you know ? How many sets of keys are there for my house ?

When the lady left the relationship do you think she had a set of keys ? I think so, why not, she lived there from time to time.

[Kripe]

The thing that sticks in my mind, and always has been, regardless of what he has said to minimize how it looks is, did he put ''some'' parts of the lady in the bin and was the bin his.

He admitted it putting the body in the wheelie-bin and even did a reconstruction.

As he was the only person with the keys to rooms he hid the bin in, how could it be anyone elses bin?

He had the only keys, how do you know ? How many sets of keys are there for my house ?

When the lady left the relationship do you think she had a set of keys ? I think so, why not, she lived there from time to time.

Why does it matter who had key to the room and to the bin if Dokset has admitted he placed June in the bin? If he did a reconstruction, that was properly what happened then!!

The more important part, is what happened BEFORE he placed June's body in the bin! - murder or accident?

And the reason WHY he placed her body in the bin! - fear, intention to hide murder, or intention to hide accident or murder and gain as KarenBravo suggest?

Those questions must be covered in court..

Edited March 9, 2013 by Kripe

[KarenBravo]

@transam

So.....what you are implying is that someone else did it and put her in the wheelie bin, then, with their own set of duplicate keys repeatedly came back and moved the bin from room to room so that the occupant of the house wouldn't discover it?

Don't quit your day job super-sleuth.......

Edited March 9, 2013 by KarenBravo

[transam]

@transam

So.....what you are implying is that someone else did it and put her in the wheelie bin, then, with their own set of duplicate keys repeatedly came back and moved the bin from room to room so that the occupant of the house wouldn't discover it?

Don't quit your day job super-sleuth.......

Hastings, the ''part'' body discovery was in ONE of there habitats. SUDDENLY, the BiB raid this residence after 3 years and find ''part'' of a body. Why not all of it ? DID the bin belong to the house ? Was soil found with the ''part'' body from another area. Said all this before with no response .

[KarenBravo]

Hastings, the ''part'' body discovery was in ONE of there habitats. SUDDENLY, the BiB raid this residence after 3 years and find ''part'' of a body. Why not all of it ? DID the bin belong to the house ? Was soil found with the ''part'' body from another area. Said all this before with no response:( .

Maybe you should go back and read the original thread.

The BiB finally raided his residence because her family claimed that the Phuket police were not interested in her sudden "disappearance". The family went to Bangkok and appealed to the Bangkok police who finally organized the raid on Dokset's house.

There was only a partial body because chemicals had been added to the wheelie-bin which dissolved most of the body.

Anything else you don't "get"?

[Nisa]

There are/is a minimum of two people who know the truth. One of the person/s who knows the truth is unable to tell us what happened as they are dead..

Who speaks for June.

Thinking of this ladies last moments being confronted by this big hulking man, having her head pushed against a wall severe enough to cause her to fall down a flight of stairs. At which time she may or may not still be alive. And being disposed of like a used tissue in a trash can. The fear, pain and confusion that must have been running through her mind at that moment. She deserved better than to have been thrown away like some leftover pizza into a garbage pail and left there (possibly still alive) to rot!

Let's call him innocent until she can provide her side of the details in a court of law.......

No matter how emotional a picture you paint, you still can't send a guy to prison for life or execute him without concrete evidence.

Please stop with the nonsense of pretending this forum is a court of law or that because people have opinions of the guy's guilt that it means they don't believe people are entitled to a trial.

[transam]

Hastings, the ''part'' body discovery was in ONE of there habitats. SUDDENLY, the BiB raid this residence after 3 years and find ''part'' of a body. Why not all of it ? DID the bin belong to the house ? Was soil found with the ''part'' body from another area. Said all this before with no response:( .

Maybe you should go back and read the original thread.

The BiB finally raided his residence because her family claimed that the Phuket police were not interested in her sudden "disappearance". The family went to Bangkok and appealed to the Bangkok police who finally organized the raid on Dokset's house.

There was only a partial body because chemicals had been added to the wheelie-bin which dissolved most of the body.

Anything else you don't "get"?

As I read it, it seems that all the remains were not in the bin. If this was the UK l would take on board what was being said/produced, it is not, her cop husband was very quiet for three years. I wonder why.

[OldeBellPedr]

There are/is a minimum of two people who know the truth. One of the person/s who knows the truth is unable to tell us what happened as they are dead..

Who speaks for June.

Thinking of this ladies last moments being confronted by this big hulking man, having her head pushed against a wall severe enough to cause her to fall down a flight of stairs. At which time she may or may not still be alive. And being disposed of like a used tissue in a trash can. The fear, pain and confusion that must have been running through her mind at that moment. She deserved better than to have been thrown away like some leftover pizza into a garbage pail and left there (possibly still alive) to rot!

Let's call him innocent until she can provide her side of the details in a court of law.......

No matter how emotional a picture you paint, you still can't send a guy to prison for life or execute him without concrete evidence.

Never stated his guilt. I stated let's call him innocent until proven guilty. Junes side of the story will be told by the prosecutors and it will be up to a judge to determine if he/she believes Junes story or the Norwegians.

I'm no lawyer, but I don't think there is a presumption of innocence under Thai law, upon arrest the person arrested becomes a suspect with neither a presumption of guilt or innocence - similar to the Napoleonic code. The police do a lot more investigating before the guy is arrested than they would under English law. By the same token, I don't think there is a system of court appointed professional translators in Thailand, as you would find in most Western countries. I have come across cases here before where people patently unqualified and with no training in Thai legal terminology, have been appointed translators.

[lemoncake]

Do Thai courts have recognised interpreters, or are they accepting anybody who claims to speak the Thai and English?

i am a little puzzled why his lawyers or the court did not contact the embassy to ask for qualified interpreter.

Also he is Norwegian, so why give him an English interpreter. This is not a case about stolen candy but a serious murder case.

[jbrain]

Hastings, the ''part'' body discovery was in ONE of there habitats. SUDDENLY, the BiB raid this residence after 3 years and find ''part'' of a body. Why not all of it ? DID the bin belong to the house ? Was soil found with the ''part'' body from another area. Said all this before with no response:( .

Maybe you should go back and read the original thread.

The BiB finally raided his residence because her family claimed that the Phuket police were not interested in her sudden "disappearance". The family went to Bangkok and appealed to the Bangkok police who finally organized the raid on Dokset's house.

There was only a partial body because chemicals had been added to the wheelie-bin which dissolved most of the body.

Anything else you don't "get"?

May it be that the Phuket police wasn't very interested because of Dokset's connections ?

If I'm not mistaken he was a police volunteer .

[transam]

Hastings, the ''part'' body discovery was in ONE of there habitats. SUDDENLY, the BiB raid this residence after 3 years and find ''part'' of a body. Why not all of it ? DID the bin belong to the house ? Was soil found with the ''part'' body from another area. Said all this before with no response:( .

Maybe you should go back and read the original thread.

The BiB finally raided his residence because her family claimed that the Phuket police were not interested in her sudden "disappearance". The family went to Bangkok and appealed to the Bangkok police who finally organized the raid on Dokset's house.

There was only a partial body because chemicals had been added to the wheelie-bin which dissolved most of the body.

Anything else you don't "get"?

May it be that the Phuket police wasn't very interested because of Dokset's connections ?

If I'm not mistaken he was a police volunteer .

Means nothing, I am one.

[seaeagle]

Whatever the level of crime, innocent or guilty, it's actually quite refreshing to see someone digging their heels in and not co-operating with the police and courts.

Too much here is done by smiley re-enactments, guilty pleas, financial pay-offs etc. Having to run a court case 'properly' is probably throwing the 'local system' off their stride.

[LivinginKata]

A number of off topic posts cleared out. Let's stay with the court case under discussion.

[lemoncake]

Whatever the level of crime, innocent or guilty, it's actually quite refreshing to see someone digging their heels in and not co-operating with the police and courts.

Too much here is done by smiley re-enactments, guilty pleas, financial pay-offs etc. Having to run a court case 'properly' is probably throwing the 'local system' off their stride.

How can he cooperate, when he is Norwegian but he is given an English Interpreter, its like giving Chinese Interpreter to Japanese, just because he is Asian.