Hitler Fashion Statements Confuse, Offend Tourists In Thailand

[Tanlic]

The most popular photograph in the world is that of Che Guevara. Millions of T-shirts sold world wide including in the UK the USA you name it.

A pop Icon and hero to many but also earned himself the name 'The Butcher of the Cabaña" executing thousands who stood in his way.

The west see him as a hero while many of those who lost their loved ones by his hand aren't given a moments thought.

Sure Hitler is seen as a million times worse because of the volume of murders he committed or sanctioned but in reality both committed mass murders in the name of their cause

Someone put up some pics of some Thai girl dressed as Hitler and some others holding a flag............Girls were cute and it looked an awful lot like the same sort of satire as the Producers to me.

Incase anyone doesn't know Hitler is dead.has been for sometime and if people want to market stupid little cartoon-ish toys of his silly Charlie Chaplin looking face I find that about offensive as dried milk.

BTW real Nazi marches have taken place from Pheonix Arizona to Russia and there was no cartoons of Hitler or cute thai girls having fun.Just a big swaztika and a bunch of scum.

[DavoTheGun]

Most of the material that you and I might see as being offensive, is offensive due to the connection with death camps and specifically our own culture. Thai kids grow up learning little about our culture, so in reality can be forgiven for not knowing much about it - certainly blame the education system for failings there, but bear in mind that kids in western schools probably learn as little about Siamese history as the Thais do about the west. The point implied by Chooka is very valid - tourists and visitors don't mind using the Thai flag as an ornament of their travels, and even buy little Buddha images - but how many treat those with the respect that they deserve, or understand the meaning behind the things they see here?

Westerners may be as offended as they like about others not knowing their history, but the reverse is also true, as many visitors are uneducated in the ways of the local culture and the historic sensitivities associated with it. This applies throughout the world, but just here.

Yes, Hitler and his Nazis were a major, and horrendous part of western history, but less so over in Asia, the other side of the world, where at that time, they were fighting their own wars and being slaughtered by the Japanese invaders - much more of an issue than what someone a world away did to the people there. How horrified are you at what the Japanese did? How horrified are you at what happened in Cambodia? How disgusted are you with what went on in Vietnam?

You also have to understand that in Asia people don't tend to dwell on things as much as westerners do - once its over, in a lot of cases they just shrug and say "Well that's the way it is." Unfortunately it does lead to repeating mistakes where the lesson was not learned as it should have been, but I believe it comes from a background of being powerless to fix many of the issues people see around them, and not wishing to become obsessed with tilting at windmills, they ignore it and get on with their lives... not necessarily defending this attitude, but I do see why this happens.

Very well said!

[shiroboi]

I was kind of taken aback the other day when I was checking out at Tesco Lotus and having the security guard lady checking my receipt. I noticed that her badge had an SS on it. Same double lightning bolts as Hitler's elite gaurds.

It's kind of sad when the most dedicated and ruthless Nazi warriors have to work security at Lotus.

[Thai at Heart]

I was kind of taken aback the other day when I was checking out at Tesco Lotus and having the security guard lady checking my receipt. I noticed that her badge had an SS on it. Same double lightning bolts as Hitler's elite gaurds.

It's kind of sad when the most dedicated and ruthless Nazi warriors have to work security at Lotus.

There is clothing brand in robinsons with that symbol. I will look for the photo. I presume no one knew what it meant.

[transam]

When l see Police or Army folk with head wear/caps, arm bands all very similar to stuff worn by the Nazis, and of course the goose step marching in LOS, it makes me think there is an affection for the stature of the Nazi thing. Not talking about the bad stuff, just what they looked like.

[Ace of Pop]

Thai don't even know what it is they are wearing can hardly blame the kids if they haven't been educated about the world outside. My niece was wearing a shirt/shorts that appeared to be made with the Union Jack and when I explained to her what it was she was very suprised. She thought it was just a trendy design. When I suggested that she make some clothing out of the Thai flag she was quite disgusted, saying you can't do that as it is disrepectful to Thailand.

Making clothing from the Union Flag (it is only a Jack when flown on a ship) is part of British cultural imagery too. Think of the figures through time who've been depicted with a waistcoat in the design of the flag.

This is hardly the same thing as iconising Hitler.

Whats the Red Ensign, they fly on a Ship then.?.

[bigbamboo]

Hypocritical how farlang people get so offended. But it is OK for them to burn other people holy books and so on. That is free speech of course.

there must be be a lot of free speech in the muslim world then by number of other countries flags they burn and embassies they bomb , lets have some real perspective on this <deleted>.

so lets agree that there is no freedom of expression particularly by hypocritical westerners

Your thought isn't too clear. Do you believe 'westerners' have less freedom of expression than others or that they don't allow it in others?

Edited March 10, 2013 by bigbamboo

[ratcatcher]

I was kind of taken aback the other day when I was checking out at Tesco Lotus and having the security guard lady checking my receipt. I noticed that her badge had an SS on it. Same double lightning bolts as Hitler's elite gaurds.

It's kind of sad when the most dedicated and ruthless Nazi warriors have to work security at Lotus.

"It's kind of sad when the most dedicated and ruthless Nazi warriors have to work security at Lotus."

Surely, it's kind of sad for you to compare a Thai person on minimum wages working as checkout security to "dedicated and ruthless Nazi warriors'" .

I mean, really, that's stretching the imagination a bit. Tell me she was wearing jackboots and other Nazi regalia like this complete with a Luger.

Most of the 'security" ladies/guys are quite harmless and unlikely to challenge a farang anyway.

The SS was probably the initials of the company she worked for. Somchai Security.

[bigbamboo]

I was kind of taken aback the other day when I was checking out at Tesco Lotus and having the security guard lady checking my receipt. I noticed that her badge had an SS on it. Same double lightning bolts as Hitler's elite gaurds.

It's kind of sad when the most dedicated and ruthless Nazi warriors have to work security at Lotus.

"It's kind of sad when the most dedicated and ruthless Nazi warriors have to work security at Lotus."

Surely, it's kind of sad for you to compare a Thai person on minimum wages working as checkout security to "dedicated and ruthless Nazi warriors'" .

I mean, really, that's stretching the imagination a bit. Tell me she was wearing jackboots and other Nazi regalia like this complete with a Luger.

Most of the 'security" ladies/guys are quite harmless and unlikely to challenge a farang anyway.

ss.jpg

The SS was probably the initials of the company she worked for. Somchai Security.

Or Shin Security........they dress in black, don't they?

[AngelsLariat]

I was kind of taken aback the other day when I was checking out at Tesco Lotus and having the security guard lady checking my receipt. I noticed that her badge had an SS on it. Same double lightning bolts as Hitler's elite gaurds.

It's kind of sad when the most dedicated and ruthless Nazi warriors have to work security at Lotus.

"It's kind of sad when the most dedicated and ruthless Nazi warriors have to work security at Lotus."

Surely, it's kind of sad for you to compare a Thai person on minimum wages working as checkout security to "dedicated and ruthless Nazi warriors'" .

I mean, really, that's stretching the imagination a bit. Tell me she was wearing jackboots and other Nazi regalia like this complete with a Luger.

Most of the 'security" ladies/guys are quite harmless and unlikely to challenge a farang anyway.

ss.jpg

The SS was probably the initials of the company she worked for. Somchai Security.

C'mon, did you really not recognize the sentence "It's kind of sad when the most dedicated and ruthless Nazi warriors have to work security at Lotus." as irony? Hint -- he didn't really think that the woman at Lotus was a Nazi warrior.

Edited March 10, 2013 by AngelsLariat

[kevvy]

Thai don't even know what it is they are wearing can hardly blame the kids if they haven't been educated about the world outside. My niece was wearing a shirt/shorts that appeared to be made with the Union Jack and when I explained to her what it was she was very suprised. She thought it was just a trendy design. When I suggested that she make some clothing out of the Thai flag she was quite disgusted, saying you can't do that as it is disrepectful to Thailand.

maybe make something in the saints colours ... see the saints go marching in

[samran]

I was kind of taken aback the other day when I was checking out at Tesco Lotus and having the security guard lady checking my receipt. I noticed that her badge had an SS on it. Same double lightning bolts as Hitler's elite gaurds.

It's kind of sad when the most dedicated and ruthless Nazi warriors have to work security at Lotus.

You poor soul you, don't head down to Australia then where General Motors also badges their vehicles somewhat similar.

[chooka]

I was kind of taken aback the other day when I was checking out at Tesco Lotus and having the security guard lady checking my receipt. I noticed that her badge had an SS on it. Same double lightning bolts as Hitler's elite gaurds.

It's kind of sad when the most dedicated and ruthless Nazi warriors have to work security at Lotus.

You poor soul you, don't head down to Australia then where General Motors also badges their vehicles somewhat similar.

Is that in Moe?

[samran]

I was kind of taken aback the other day when I was checking out at Tesco Lotus and having the security guard lady checking my receipt. I noticed that her badge had an SS on it. Same double lightning bolts as Hitler's elite gaurds.

It's kind of sad when the most dedicated and ruthless Nazi warriors have to work security at Lotus.

You poor soul you, don't head down to Australia then where General Motors also badges their vehicles somewhat similar.

Is that in Moe?

Probably.

Edited March 10, 2013 by samran

[AngelsLariat]

Probably not. But by the same token, when SNL aired that "Rosetta Stone for Sex Tourists" spoof it was of no consolation to Thais that SNL was not intending to offend Thailand.

Are you going to draw a parallel between sex tourism and the Holocaust?

No, I was drawing a parallel between Thais being offended by Westerners who were not intending to offend them, and Westerners being offended by Thais who were not trying to offend them. Maybe the outrage is more justified in one case than the other (you decide which one is a more serious issue), but if Thais are going to get upset over the SNL video despite the lack of intent of SNL to insult them, then they can't turn around and say that this is OK because they did not intend to offend.

You wrote, "You decide which is the more serious issue." Are you serious or making some kind of joke?

It must not have been a very good one if you need to ask if it's a joke. But definitely there are more relevant issues in Thailand today than the Third Reich.

[GrantSmith]

Thailand.. Hub of the whinging farang...

I wonder if the minister for hubs has anything to say on this hub..

[Nuna]

What do you expect from a country full of over 60 million people who don't know that a world exists beyond their borders and who generally despise non-Thais? Nothing new here for those of us who live here. Let the 2 week tourists be surprised.

Even American people who you think so smart and have chance to access any level of education are still unable to locate their country on the map. What do you expect from illiterated thai people?

In my opinion, Improving low/non-educated is much easier and more productive than the arrogant well educated. In Buddhism, there is a kind of person who will never get enlightened. We call them "< Thai script removed >" because they mistake that they are smart and don't need to be fulfilled by any other knowledge.

Edited March 10, 2013 by metisdead
: Thai script removed, this is the English language side of the forum, English is the only acceptable language. If you wish to post in Thai, you can do that in the Thai language forum.

[Pakboong]

Hypocritical how farlang people get so offended. But it is OK for them to burn other people holy books and so on. That is free speech of course.

there must be be a lot of free speech in the muslim world then by number of other countries flags they burn and embassies they bomb , lets have some real perspective on this &lt;deleted&gt;.

so lets agree that there is no freedom of expression particularly by hypocritical westerners

Well, if you are going to be potentially offensive, don't be surprised if people get pissed off.

Unfettered free speech comes with responsibility. Someone will claim they have the right to express their Nazism views.

Why don't I have the right to call them racist, murderous thugs?

But we aren't talking about that here are we?

If Thai's knew that they'd be classed as one of the sub-human races under Nazi world dominance then I doubt they'd be wearing this stuff. So it is ignorance, albeit of a slightly disturbing type.

So what is left is Nazi symbols turned into caricature and the butt of humour. If you can't ban the stuff, then that is probably the next best place for it. It is hardly a promotion of the ideals of Nazism and if this was to have happened under the Nazi regime what do you think would have happened to the sellers of this stuff? Would they have been shot or celebrated? I suggest the former.

The thing I find perplexing is, if broadway puts on a show with the song called "Springtime for Hitler" it is comedy. If a bunch of Thai's start selling a seig-heil'ing Ronald McDonald, it is is offensive.

One thing is clear though, there are a bunch of culturally superior biggots in this debate, and one things is for sure, it ain't the Thai's selling or buying this stuff.

I feel sorry for people who wear this stuff inadvertently. They are just ignorant. Do I find it offensive personally? Not really. If Thais were goose stepping the streets, that would worry me.

However, I am not surprised that some people will be offended and try to explain what it stands for. If my grandparents had been gassed, my reaction would be different.

At the end of the day, people only have the right to offend, if they accept that they may get a reaction back.

If I accidentally wear something offensive, I would hope someone would tell me. Does anyone have to accept someone else's opinion 100% even if it's abhorrent? Don't think so.

No more than someone has the right to play music at 150 decibels at my window at midnight. I reserve the right to complain.

"Spring Time for Hitler" was from a Mel Brooks production called "The Producers". If Mel poking fun at Hitler was okay, why can't the Thais poke fun in a similar light? After all, Mel is Jewish so he should understand better than the rest.

[MacChine]

Vienna just built a Che Guevara Monument a couple of years ago. Still a lot Mao and Stalin pictures in Europe.

Austrian president was long time an admire of North Korea.

But when you mention Hitler everyone freaks out. What is the difference between an evil dictator and mass murder that is fashionable (Mao for example) and an evil dictator that is disgusting?

I think it is a bit sick to find mass murder fashionable.....

But still better than having laws that forbid it.

As small but very determined group of people, who have much to gain, and everything to lose.

It is the PR war

[AngelsLariat]

Well, if you are going to be potentially offensive, don't be surprised if people get pissed off.

Unfettered free speech comes with responsibility. Someone will claim they have the right to express their Nazism views.

Why don't I have the right to call them racist, murderous thugs?

But we aren't talking about that here are we?

If Thai's knew that they'd be classed as one of the sub-human races under Nazi world dominance then I doubt they'd be wearing this stuff. So it is ignorance, albeit of a slightly disturbing type.

So what is left is Nazi symbols turned into caricature and the butt of humour. If you can't ban the stuff, then that is probably the next best place for it. It is hardly a promotion of the ideals of Nazism and if this was to have happened under the Nazi regime what do you think would have happened to the sellers of this stuff? Would they have been shot or celebrated? I suggest the former.

The thing I find perplexing is, if broadway puts on a show with the song called "Springtime for Hitler" it is comedy. If a bunch of Thai's start selling a seig-heil'ing Ronald McDonald, it is is offensive.

One thing is clear though, there are a bunch of culturally superior biggots in this debate, and one things is for sure, it ain't the Thai's selling or buying this stuff.

I feel sorry for people who wear this stuff inadvertently. They are just ignorant. Do I find it offensive personally? Not really. If Thais were goose stepping the streets, that would worry me.

However, I am not surprised that some people will be offended and try to explain what it stands for. If my grandparents had been gassed, my reaction would be different.

At the end of the day, people only have the right to offend, if they accept that they may get a reaction back.

If I accidentally wear something offensive, I would hope someone would tell me. Does anyone have to accept someone else's opinion 100% even if it's abhorrent? Don't think so.

No more than someone has the right to play music at 150 decibels at my window at midnight. I reserve the right to complain.

"Spring Time for Hitler" was from a Mel Brooks production called "The Producers". If Mel poking fun at Hitler was okay, why can't the Thais poke fun in a similar light? After all, Mel is Jewish so he should understand better than the rest.

Might not Mel Brooks (The Producers) and Werner Klemperer (Hogan's Heroes) getting a pass on Nazi humor in some ways be analogous to black comedians getting away with using the "N" word in their acts? It's different when an outsider does it than when it's within the family. Edited March 10, 2013 by AngelsLariat

[MacChine]

What do you expect from a country full of over 60 million people who don't know that a world exists beyond their borders and who generally despise non-Thais? Nothing new here for those of us who live here. Let the 2 week tourists be surprised.

Even American people who you think so smart and have chance to access any level of education are still unable to locate their country on the map. What do you expect from illiterated thai people?

In my opinion, Improving low/non-educated is much easier and more productive than the arrogant well educated. In Buddhism, there is a kind of person who will never get enlightened. We call them "< Thai script removed >" because they mistake that they are smart and don't need to be fulfilled by any other knowledge.

NO most Americans DO NOT have this kind of access, higher education is expensive and almost elitist on a scale such as UK . I also disagree with your poor assessment of US education standards , just about any American can point out the country on a world map. Just about any western, basically educated person. Can the same really be said of Thais?

[Jingthing]

Vienna just built a Che Guevara Monument a couple of years ago. Still a lot Mao and Stalin pictures in Europe.

Austrian president was long time an admire of North Korea.

But when you mention Hitler everyone freaks out. What is the difference between an evil dictator and mass murder that is fashionable (Mao for example) and an evil dictator that is disgusting?

I think it is a bit sick to find mass murder fashionable.....

But still better than having laws that forbid it.

As small but very determined group of people, who have much to gain, and everything to lose.

It is the PR war

Yeah those Rastafarians are inscrutable!

[MacChine]

Vienna just built a Che Guevara Monument a couple of years ago. Still a lot Mao and Stalin pictures in Europe.

Austrian president was long time an admire of North Korea.

But when you mention Hitler everyone freaks out. What is the difference between an evil dictator and mass murder that is fashionable (Mao for example) and an evil dictator that is disgusting?

I think it is a bit sick to find mass murder fashionable.....

But still better than having laws that forbid it.

As small but very determined group of people, who have much to gain, and everything to lose.

It is the PR war

Yeah those Rastafarians are inscrutable!

Huh? PR - Public Relations

[Jingthing]

Huh? PR - Public Relations

Yeah, mon!

[oz93666]

reminds me of the ' chairman Mao' restaurants in America , now he was a real mass murderer around 60 mill compared to Hitlers 15mill.

[Jingthing]

reminds me of the ' chairman Mao' restaurants in America , now he was a real mass murderer around 60 mill compared to Hitlers 15mill.

I agree that's wrong but do really such exist in the USA? I could find in Australia. I do realize Mao is still admired probably by the majority of Chinese in China.

[tomyummer]

So maybe the Buddha images in night clubs or on shoes are the western equivalent of this swastika thing. To westerners not a big deal, more as a design statement too.

Thai's are not educated socially or politically enough outside their country to know what's right and wrong.

[gtm2k]

Well you see gents, to be able to co-relate hitler to the holocaust - you need to have a basic reading of "world history". Sadly enough, thai's are only well-versed with their own history which is not too old in the global comparison At the same time, if you go back a few hundred years - no such "thai" event in particular affected RoW. US, EUROPE, ASIA particularly (Russia, China, India) and JAPAN went through major events which has led to the world we all live in today.

The only knowledge that thai's have during the world war era is of being the only unoccupied territory during that period - but the average individual is not even aware of how the WW1 started and what factors led to WWII.

Sometimes you have to just take all this with one shut eye - and at least feel privileged to receive the kind of education we all received back in our home countries.

Although thailand is blessed in a way to not have gone through much historical chaos, perhaps inclusion of the historical matters in school textbooks would be a better solution for the long term !

Edited March 10, 2013 by gtm2k

[Pimay1]

reminds me of the ' chairman Mao' restaurants in America , now he was a real mass murderer around 60 mill compared to Hitlers 15mill.

I agree that's wrong but do really such exist in the USA? I could find in Australia. I do realize Mao is still admired probably by the majority of Chinese in China.

There is one in L.A. I think it is the only one in the US.

http://blogs.laweekly.com/squidink/2012/11/ohn_huang_maos_restaurant.php

[endure]

Thai don't even know what it is they are wearing can hardly blame the kids if they haven't been educated about the world outside. My niece was wearing a shirt/shorts that appeared to be made with the Union Jack and when I explained to her what it was she was very suprised. She thought it was just a trendy design. When I suggested that she make some clothing out of the Thai flag she was quite disgusted, saying you can't do that as it is disrepectful to Thailand.

Making clothing from the Union Flag (it is only a Jack when flown on a ship) is part of British cultural imagery too. Think of the figures through time who've been depicted with a waistcoat in the design of the flag.

This is hardly the same thing as iconising Hitler.

Whats the Red Ensign, they fly on a Ship then.?.

The Red Ensign. It's flown on UK registered merchant ships.