Hitler Fashion Statements Confuse, Offend Tourists In Thailand

[chiangmaikelly]

Thanks, the time is different, that's odd. Oh well......

My point was in reference to the difference between generations. Take for example today's Aussie soldier. Lieutenant-Colonel Chris Smith (Yesterday Sydney Morning Herald), who was commanding officer of Mentoring Taskforce 3 for six months, catalogued dangerous and ill-disciplined conduct - including sunbathing on missions and hitting golf balls into areas where militants could be hiding. Colonel Smith went on to say that young soldiers had a ''distorted and fanciful perception of wartime soldiering'' based on ''stereotypical images of special forces soldiers, and characters from films and computer games''. ''The hyperbole surrounding the contribution of Australian soldiers in Afghanistan makes the soldiers feel entitled to be treated almost as Roman gladiators.

www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/blast-for-gladiator-diggers-20130313-2g0xm.html

Perhaps the older generation who was born before or during WWII has different take on what is offensive and what is not offensive as the story above indicates soldiers have different takes on what war should be like.

<deleted>?

I thought what I wrote was crystal clear. Different generations have a different understanding of what each would define as a basic issue or reality. War either present or past is not seen the same because of a generational difference. Hence the young guys from the Allied side would not find Nazis marching in Thailand offensive.

Your C&P was one of your bizzare non sequiturs.

You were born after WWII.

There were no Nazis marching in Bangkok.

I was born at the end of WWII and there were people marching in Nazi UNIFORMS in Thailand. Didn't think we had to be so specific. The thread is about Hitler fashion statement.

I knew people who were effected directly by WWII; my family and kids growing up without a father and disabled Veterans and people who went nuts because of the war. WWII and the Nazi's were not some history book thing to me. WWII and Nazis were part of my life; not in movies but in reality. I knew people who were at the Nuremberg trials and engineers who worked on the A bomb. I don't think you can appreciate my perspective.

Edited March 15, 2013 by chiangmaikelly

[samran]

Amazing what a year old at the end of the war can take in.

Reminds me of the four yorkshiremen.

We youngens don't know what we are talking about.

[chiangmaikelly]

My uncle John bombed his families home in Germany. He was the bombardier He could see the home in his bomb sight. The engineer who designed the trigger for the atomic bomb (he worked for GE I think) I was with when he died. Growing up I dealt with the aftermath of the war. War surplus stores were jammed with stuff even tanks and Nazi uniforms and helmets. I have children from 20 to 50 years old and they can't empathize. The Nazis and the war directly effected me and my family. I won't go into it here as you fellows are into satire as opposed to empathy. Your levity is the proof of my point. How funny would it be to you if your brother and sisters were raped and killed by men in the same uniform as the school girls marching in Bangkok?

[SteeleJoe]

Thanks, the time is different, that's odd. Oh well......

My point was in reference to the difference between generations. Take for example today's Aussie soldier. Lieutenant-Colonel Chris Smith (Yesterday Sydney Morning Herald), who was commanding officer of Mentoring Taskforce 3 for six months, catalogued dangerous and ill-disciplined conduct - including sunbathing on missions and hitting golf balls into areas where militants could be hiding. Colonel Smith went on to say that young soldiers had a ''distorted and fanciful perception of wartime soldiering'' based on ''stereotypical images of special forces soldiers, and characters from films and computer games''. ''The hyperbole surrounding the contribution of Australian soldiers in Afghanistan makes the soldiers feel entitled to be treated almost as Roman gladiators.

www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/blast-for-gladiator-diggers-20130313-2g0xm.html

Perhaps the older generation who was born before or during WWII has different take on what is offensive and what is not offensive as the story above indicates soldiers have different takes on what war should be like.

<deleted>?

I thought what I wrote was crystal clear. Different generations have a different understanding of what each would define as a basic issue or reality. War either present or past is not seen the same because of a generational difference. Hence the young guys from the Allied side would not find Nazis marching in Thailand offensive.

Your C&P was one of your bizzare non sequiturs.

You were born after WWII.

There were no Nazis marching in Bangkok.

I was born at the end of WWII and there were people marching in Nazi UNIFORMS in Thailand. Didn't think we had to be so specific. The thread is about Hitler fashion statement.

I knew people who were effected directly by WWII; my family and kids growing up without a father and disabled Veterans and people who went nuts because of the war. WWII and the Nazi's were not some history book thing to me. WWII and Nazis were part of my life; not in movies but in reality. I knew people who were at the Nuremberg trials and engineers who worked on the A bomb. I don't think you can appreciate my perspective.

Previously you claimed to be 18 in 1965: that would mean you were born AFTER the war, not at the end of it.

You may disregard the fact that one's ability to understand morality and it's complete absence does not depend on when one was born and you may disregard what can be learned from years of study, but it's unthinking nonsense to do so. If you had been in the camps or Nazi controlled territory, I might grant you having a better understanding but even then I wouldn't allow that no one else knows how evil the Nazis were. My grandparents, parents and uncles/aunts lived through the war - some fought in it. I know people who liberated camps and even a survivor of one. I knew people who lived through the war as civilians in Europe and Asia. But even if I hadn't, it wouldn't mean I couldn't know what true evil was. The idea that you have a different understanding of evil because of your age is untenable.

If you honestly don't see any difference between people being discussed on this thread and actual Nazis then not only are you not very bright but it is YOU who has a poor understanding of what true evil is and who is hugely diminishing what the Nazis were. People generally DO object when actual Nazis march - people who are way too young to have been around in WWII by the way - and to suggest that not reacting the same way to that indicates anything about some posters is also ignorant and offensive.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

Edited March 15, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[A_Traveller]

I have to say that the impression given by CMK had, no doubt unintentionally, been that he was a member of the "greatest generation" as it has justly been described, and therefore some slack was cut.

However if that is not the case then let's reel in that slack and be direct.

The assumption somehow that perception of evil, war, and its associated nightmares, both literal and metaphorical, is somehow the preserve of a "baby boomer" is at best trite nonsense, and at worst offensive.

[samran]

My uncle John bombed his families home in Germany. He was the bombardier He could see the home in his bomb sight. The engineer who designed the trigger for the atomic bomb (he worked for GE I think) I was with when he died. Growing up I dealt with the aftermath of the war. War surplus stores were jammed with stuff even tanks and Nazi uniforms and helmets. I have children from 20 to 50 years old and they can't empathize. The Nazis and the war directly effected me and my family. I won't go into it here as you fellows are into satire as opposed to empathy. Your levity is the proof of my point. How funny would it be to you if your brother and sisters were raped and killed by men in the same uniform as the school girls marching in Bangkok?

My grandfather was in the bombing of Darwin and my grandmother was in Japanese occupied Thailand.

I also have a cousins uncles first cousin (one removed) who once slept of the floor of this bloke in south London who had driven through Berlin 2 days before WWII was declared who saw a poster of Hitler, so thus I have as good as understanding as those who fought first hand in the war (according to you logic).

[SteeleJoe]

I have to say that the impression given by CMK had, no doubt unintentionally, been that he was a member of the "greatest generation" as it has justly been described, and therefore some slack was cut.

However if that is not the case then let's reel in that slack and be direct.

The assumption somehow that perception of evil, war, and its associated nightmares, both literal and metaphorical, is somehow the preserve of a "baby boomer" is at best trite nonsense, and at worst offensive.

Great post. If only I had put it as well.

By the way, I might have made the same assumption had I not previously been stunned and a bit offended on a previous thread where he made it clear he was a youth in the 60's and that THEY were the only generation that actually did something for the world instead of sit around and sponge off mom and dad (yes, he said Hippies did more than the "Greatest Generation").

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

[chiangmaikelly]

Thanks, the time is different, that's odd. Oh well......

My point was in reference to the difference between generations. Take for example today's Aussie soldier. Lieutenant-Colonel Chris Smith (Yesterday Sydney Morning Herald), who was commanding officer of Mentoring Taskforce 3 for six months, catalogued dangerous and ill-disciplined conduct - including sunbathing on missions and hitting golf balls into areas where militants could be hiding. Colonel Smith went on to say that young soldiers had a ''distorted and fanciful perception of wartime soldiering'' based on ''stereotypical images of special forces soldiers, and characters from films and computer games''. ''The hyperbole surrounding the contribution of Australian soldiers in Afghanistan makes the soldiers feel entitled to be treated almost as Roman gladiators.

www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/blast-for-gladiator-diggers-20130313-2g0xm.html

Perhaps the older generation who was born before or during WWII has different take on what is offensive and what is not offensive as the story above indicates soldiers have different takes on what war should be like.

<deleted>?

I thought what I wrote was crystal clear. Different generations have a different understanding of what each would define as a basic issue or reality. War either present or past is not seen the same because of a generational difference. Hence the young guys from the Allied side would not find Nazis marching in Thailand offensive.

Your C&P was one of your bizzare non sequiturs.

You were born after WWII.

There were no Nazis marching in Bangkok.

I was born at the end of WWII and there were people marching in Nazi UNIFORMS in Thailand. Didn't think we had to be so specific. The thread is about Hitler fashion statement.

I knew people who were effected directly by WWII; my family and kids growing up without a father and disabled Veterans and people who went nuts because of the war. WWII and the Nazi's were not some history book thing to me. WWII and Nazis were part of my life; not in movies but in reality. I knew people who were at the Nuremberg trials and engineers who worked on the A bomb. I don't think you can appreciate my perspective.

Previously you claimed to be 18 in 1965: that would mean you were born AFTER the war, not at the end of it.

You may disregard the fact that one's ability to understand morality and it's complete absence does not depend on when one was born and you may disregard what can be learned from years of study, but it's unthinking nonsense to do so. If you had been in the camps or Nazi controlled territory, I might grant you having a better understanding but even then I wouldn't allow that no one else knows how evil the Nazis were. My grandparents, parents and uncles/aunts lived through the war - some fought in it. I know people who liberated camps and even a survivor of one. I knew people who lived through the war as civilians in Europe and Asia. But even if I hadn't, it wouldn't mean I couldn't know what true evil was. The idea that you have a different understanding of evil because of your age is untenable.

If you honestly don't see any difference between people being discussed on this thread and actual Nazis then not only are you not very bright but it is YOU who has a poor understanding of what true evil is and who is hugely diminishing what the Nazis were. People generally DO object when actual Nazis march - people who are way too young to have been around in WWII by the way - and to suggest that not reacting the same way to that indicates anything about some posters is also ignorant and offensive.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

I frequently alter my date of birth by a year or so to foil identity thieves but for the purposes of this discussion it is meaningless. Whether I was 1,2 or 3 years old is not the point. The point is WWII was a major effect on my life when I was growing up and it did not when you were growing up.

I don't see the humor in large groups of people marching in Nazi uniforms. Take a look at the faces of the girls in the photo. You have called me ignorant, offensive, not very bright and with a poor understanding of what true evil really is. Now look at the faces again and look at the eyes.

[chiangmaikelly]

My uncle John bombed his families home in Germany. He was the bombardier He could see the home in his bomb sight. The engineer who designed the trigger for the atomic bomb (he worked for GE I think) I was with when he died. Growing up I dealt with the aftermath of the war. War surplus stores were jammed with stuff even tanks and Nazi uniforms and helmets. I have children from 20 to 50 years old and they can't empathize. The Nazis and the war directly effected me and my family. I won't go into it here as you fellows are into satire as opposed to empathy. Your levity is the proof of my point. How funny would it be to you if your brother and sisters were raped and killed by men in the same uniform as the school girls marching in Bangkok?

My grandfather was in the bombing of Darwin and my grandmother was in Japanese occupied Thailand.

I also have a cousins uncles first cousin (one removed) who once slept of the floor of this bloke in south London who had driven through Berlin 2 days before WWII was declared who saw a poster of Hitler, so thus I have as good as understanding as those who fought first hand in the war (according to you logic).

If you actually knew anything about history you would know that you can't occupy an ally.

[chiangmaikelly]

I have to say that the impression given by CMK had, no doubt unintentionally, been that he was a member of the "greatest generation" as it has justly been described, and therefore some slack was cut.

However if that is not the case then let's reel in that slack and be direct.

The assumption somehow that perception of evil, war, and its associated nightmares, both literal and metaphorical, is somehow the preserve of a "baby boomer" is at best trite nonsense, and at worst offensive.

I think you mistake what I wrote. I meant that the levity with which symbols are treated by generations is different. They become less offensive the further removed one becomes from the event.

Edited March 15, 2013 by chiangmaikelly

[chiangmaikelly]

I have to say that the impression given by CMK had, no doubt unintentionally, been that he was a member of the "greatest generation" as it has justly been described, and therefore some slack was cut.

However if that is not the case then let's reel in that slack and be direct.

The assumption somehow that perception of evil, war, and its associated nightmares, both literal and metaphorical, is somehow the preserve of a "baby boomer" is at best trite nonsense, and at worst offensive.

Great post. If only I had put it as well.

By the way, I might have made the same assumption had I not previously been stunned and a bit offended on a previous thread where he made it clear he was a youth in the 60's and that THEY were the only generation that actually did something for the world instead of sit around and sponge off mom and dad (yes, he said Hippies did more than the "Greatest Generation").

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

The average Vietnam infantryman fought 240 days in one year. The average great generation infantryman in the Pacific fought 40. Does that fact upset the great generation. It did my uncles when I told them they didn't fight very much during WWII. It is just a different generation. Take a step back and understand the other generations point of view without being offensive and calling other people ignorant or offensive.

[samran]

My uncle John bombed his families home in Germany. He was the bombardier He could see the home in his bomb sight. The engineer who designed the trigger for the atomic bomb (he worked for GE I think) I was with when he died. Growing up I dealt with the aftermath of the war. War surplus stores were jammed with stuff even tanks and Nazi uniforms and helmets. I have children from 20 to 50 years old and they can't empathize. The Nazis and the war directly effected me and my family. I won't go into it here as you fellows are into satire as opposed to empathy. Your levity is the proof of my point. How funny would it be to you if your brother and sisters were raped and killed by men in the same uniform as the school girls marching in Bangkok?

My grandfather was in the bombing of Darwin and my grandmother was in Japanese occupied Thailand.

I also have a cousins uncles first cousin (one removed) who once slept of the floor of this bloke in south London who had driven through Berlin 2 days before WWII was declared who saw a poster of Hitler, so thus I have as good as understanding as those who fought first hand in the war (according to you logic).

If you actually knew anything about history you would know that you can't occupy an ally.

Semantics. Patronising. Evasion. Your tricks of the trade.

FWIW: I'm with the Thai ambassdor to the US at the time.

ooops. Did I get history right again?

Edited March 15, 2013 by samran

[SteeleJoe]

I have to say that the impression given by CMK had, no doubt unintentionally, been that he was a member of the "greatest generation" as it has justly been described, and therefore some slack was cut.

However if that is not the case then let's reel in that slack and be direct.

The assumption somehow that perception of evil, war, and its associated nightmares, both literal and metaphorical, is somehow the preserve of a "baby boomer" is at best trite nonsense, and at worst offensive.

Great post. If only I had put it as well.

By the way, I might have made the same assumption had I not previously been stunned and a bit offended on a previous thread where he made it clear he was a youth in the 60's and that THEY were the only generation that actually did something for the world instead of sit around and sponge off mom and dad (yes, he said Hippies did more than the "Greatest Generation").

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

The average Vietnam infantryman fought 240 days in one year. The average great generation infantryman in the Pacific fought 40. Does that fact upset the great generation. It did my uncles when I told them they didn't fight very much during WWII. It is just a different generation. Take a step back and understand the other generations point of view without being offensive and calling other people ignorant or offensive.

I called your posts ignorant and offensive. Not the same thing.

As for the test of your (usual) evasion, obfuscation, and irrelevance I mighty dress it later after my battery is recharged...

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

[chiangmaikelly]

My uncle John bombed his families home in Germany. He was the bombardier He could see the home in his bomb sight. The engineer who designed the trigger for the atomic bomb (he worked for GE I think) I was with when he died. Growing up I dealt with the aftermath of the war. War surplus stores were jammed with stuff even tanks and Nazi uniforms and helmets. I have children from 20 to 50 years old and they can't empathize. The Nazis and the war directly effected me and my family. I won't go into it here as you fellows are into satire as opposed to empathy. Your levity is the proof of my point. How funny would it be to you if your brother and sisters were raped and killed by men in the same uniform as the school girls marching in Bangkok?

My grandfather was in the bombing of Darwin and my grandmother was in Japanese occupied Thailand.

I also have a cousins uncles first cousin (one removed) who once slept of the floor of this bloke in south London who had driven through Berlin 2 days before WWII was declared who saw a poster of Hitler, so thus I have as good as understanding as those who fought first hand in the war (according to you logic).

If you actually knew anything about history you would know that you can't occupy an ally.

Semantics. Patronising. Evasion. Your tricks of the trade.

FWIW: I'm with the Thai ambassdor to the US at the time.

ooops. Did I get history right again?

No but that's OK. It would be a good topic. Maybe you should start it. I'll participate for sure.

[FarangTalk]

My uncle John bombed his families home in Germany. He was the bombardier He could see the home in his bomb sight. The engineer who designed the trigger for the atomic bomb (he worked for GE I think) I was with when he died. Growing up I dealt with the aftermath of the war. War surplus stores were jammed with stuff even tanks and Nazi uniforms and helmets. I have children from 20 to 50 years old and they can't empathize. The Nazis and the war directly effected me and my family. I won't go into it here as you fellows are into satire as opposed to empathy. Your levity is the proof of my point. How funny would it be to you if your brother and sisters were raped and killed by men in the same uniform as the school girls marching in Bangkok?

My grandfather was in the bombing of Darwin and my grandmother was in Japanese occupied Thailand.

I also have a cousins uncles first cousin (one removed) who once slept of the floor of this bloke in south London who had driven through Berlin 2 days before WWII was declared who saw a poster of Hitler, so thus I have as good as understanding as those who fought first hand in the war (according to you logic).

If you actually knew anything about history you would know that you can't occupy an ally.

Semantics. Patronising. Evasion. Your tricks of the trade.

FWIW: I'm with the Thai ambassdor to the US at the time.

ooops. Did I get history right again?

No, you got it wrong.

Thailand declared war on Britain and the US.

The Thai ambassador refused to deliver the message in the US. Thailand was still an Axis power at was with the Allies, whichever way you want to try and slither out of it.

[samran]

Semantics. Patronising. Evasion. Your tricks of the trade.

FWIW: I'm with the Thai ambassdor to the US at the time.

ooops. Did I get history right again?

No but that's OK. It would be a good topic. Maybe you should start it. I'll participate for sure.

Which bit about Seni Pramoj not delivering the declaration of war to the US government did I get wrong.

I guess you are going to tell us all you were there with him?

[samran]

Semantics. Patronising. Evasion. Your tricks of the trade.

FWIW: I'm with the Thai ambassdor to the US at the time.

ooops. Did I get history right again?

No, you got it wrong.

Thailand declared war on Britain and the US.

The Thai ambassador refused to deliver the message in the US. Thailand was still an Axis power at was with the Allies, whichever way you want to try and slither out of it.

....and which bit of "I'm with the Thai ambassador to the US at the time" do you fail to comprehend?

[AngelsLariat]

When you were that age didn't you like shirts with Johnny Rotten's picture on it and some message kike "God save the BL--dy Queen"s" on it.

Same reason, it annoyed your mother and father.

When you are young It's fun to flip off the establishment .... but in the end the establishment gets you.

...and at what time in history EXACTLY did the Sex Pistols kill millions of people?

They didn't but...

"I don't wanna holiday in the sun

I wanna go to the new Belsen"

are not Carabao lyrics.

Edited March 15, 2013 by AngelsLariat

[chiangmaikelly]

Semantics. Patronising. Evasion. Your tricks of the trade.

FWIW: I'm with the Thai ambassdor to the US at the time.

ooops. Did I get history right again?

No but that's OK. It would be a good topic. Maybe you should start it. I'll participate for sure.

Which bit about Seni Pramoj not delivering the declaration of war to the US government did I get wrong.

I guess you are going to tell us all you were there with him?

FDR froze the assets of Thailand in the US banks on December 8, 1941. Follow the money and you'll figure it out.

Edited March 15, 2013 by chiangmaikelly

[ALFREDO]

I've always like Bill Clinton's line at the 50th anniversary of the Normandy landings where he said "when they were young,

these men saved the world".

When Clinton was meaning that in that way, that the US boys saved Europe from getting Communist Russian Ideology all over for decades,

same Eastern Germany, Poland, CSSR, Hungary Romania, Bulgaria ect, than its the right statement in my opinion.

Without the US D-Day, a very good possibility, West Germany, Austria, Italy, France, Netherlands, Belgium, even Norway, would have fallen behind the iron curtain at least until recently.

Regarding, NAZI GERMANY, I doubt that - "....these men saved the world". (From the NAZIS)

it would not have needed the US involvement, the Russians would only have needed a bit longer to defeat them alone

and with war material deliveries of the West.

The Russsians had the Germans already almost a year on the retreat without a chance of changing that tide.

[samran]

I've always like Bill Clinton's line at the 50th anniversary of the Normandy landings where he said "when they were young,

these men saved the world".

When Clinton was meaning that in that way, that the US boys saved Europe from getting Communist Russian Ideology all over for decades,

same Eastern Germany, Poland, CSSR, Hungary Romania, Bulgaria ect, than its the right statement in my opinion.

Without the US D-Day, a very good possibility, West Germany, Austria, Italy, France, Netherlands, Belgium, even Norway, would have fallen behind the iron curtain at least until recently.

Regarding, NAZI GERMANY, I doubt that - "....these men saved the world". (From the NAZIS)

it would not have needed the US involvement, the Russians would only have needed a bit longer to defeat them alone

and with war material deliveries of the West.

The Russsians had the Germans already almost a year on the retreat without a chance of changing that tide.

Nah, read the speech

http://millercenter.org/president/speeches/detail/3438

He was certainly talking about the Nazi's.

[A_Traveller]

Ah the famous Thailand didn't declare war on the US story. Problem is it's just that a story.

The tale of the dramatic meeting with Cordell Hull and M.R. Seni Pramoj first appears in Newsweek 3 September 1945 from Seni. It ignores, for example that Hull wasn't even in Washington at the time, and also with documents now fully available that no such meeting is entered into Hull's desk diaries or related papers [which are in the Library of Congress].

It is true that the US took a more relaxed view of a number of declarations made by countries which were viewed as having little choice [sometimes called the Danish Option by Asst SecState Adolf A. Berle Jr. {yes really}]

There was a documented meeting on January 29 between Berle and Seri where the notes suggest that Seri stated that he had received no official notification of the declaration of war through any channels which is somewhat different.

Ultimately the declaration was received by a number of channels and was duly recorded.

/edit typo//

Edited March 15, 2013 by A_Traveller

[ALFREDO]

I've always like Bill Clinton's line at the 50th anniversary of the Normandy landings where he said "when they were young,

these men saved the world".

When Clinton was meaning that in that way, that the US boys saved Europe from getting Communist Russian Ideology all over for decades,

same Eastern Germany, Poland, CSSR, Hungary Romania, Bulgaria ect, than its the right statement in my opinion.

Without the US D-Day, a very good possibility, West Germany, Austria, Italy, France, Netherlands, Belgium, even Norway, would have fallen behind the iron curtain at least until recently.

Regarding, NAZI GERMANY, I doubt that - "....these men saved the world". (From the NAZIS)

it would not have needed the US involvement, the Russians would only have needed a bit longer to defeat them alone

and with war material deliveries of the West.

The Russsians had the Germans already almost a year on the retreat without a chance of changing that tide.

Nah, read the speech

http://millercenter.org/president/speeches/detail/3438

He was certainly talking about the Nazi's.

Than he is just wrong! And to Diplomatic to speak the truth openly, its in the shade!

Do not need your LINK of his speech, just look at the -Course of the war on the Eastern Front- MId 1943 - Mid 1944.

Of course he is a US (Ex) President a good one by the way and a Diplomatic one, has to keep the US flag high.

Edited March 15, 2013 by ALFREDO

[chiangmaikelly]

Ah the famous Thailand didn't declare war on the US story. Problem is it's just that a story.

The tale of the dramatic meeting with Cordell Hull and M.R. Seni Pramoj first appears in Newsweek 3 September 1945 from Seni. It ignores, for example that Hull wasn't even in Washington at the time, and also with documents now fully available that no such meeting is entered into Hull's desk diaries or related papers [which are in the Library of Congress].

It is true that the US took a more relaxed view of a number of declarations made by countries which were viewed as having little choice [sometimes called the Danish Option by Asst SecState Adolf A. Berle Jr. {yes really}]

There was a documented meeting on January 29 between Berle and Seri where the notes suggest that Seri stated that he had received no official notification of the declaration of war through any channels which is somewhat different.

Ultimately the declaration was received by a number of channels and was duly recorded.

/edit typo//

At the time there were a number of Thai diplomats in the US and a number of students (including the PM's son) going to school. When the Thai funds were frozen they didn't have any cash. Follow the money.

[samran]

A_traveller, thanks for the interesting account. I didn't know that other channels had been used. I did know that the US viewed certain declarations more lightly than others.

Together with CMK's eyewitness accounts of all this, I stand corrected.

[chiangmaikelly]

A_traveller, thanks for the interesting account. I didn't know that other channels had been used. I did know that the US viewed certain declarations more lightly than others.

Together with CMK's eyewitness accounts of all this, I stand corrected.

I don't know you. You seem like a hi so guy. Not saying that in any negative sense (honest). But think of what you would do. You are in college in the US and all of a sudden you go to the bank and all of your money is frozen. You call dad (telegram), pop (who is the PM) what's going on? I just went to the bank and no cash for your son. What are you going to do about this? 1 they want to put me in an internment camp and two they have all my money. Pop this is not good. Heck no I don't want to take that boat back home. You are Thai. Figure this out will ya. .......

Edited March 15, 2013 by chiangmaikelly

[samran]

^^Yep, that they had no principals. Falls neatly into the narrative of Thai's being self interested so and so's.

But you were there, so I guess I can't argue with that.

[chiangmaikelly]

^^Yep, that they had no principals. Falls neatly into the narrative of Thai's being self interested so and so's.

But you were there, so I guess I can't argue with that.

Maybe you should look at the casualty figures from Thailand, Vietnam, Burma, Japan, USA and the UK for WWII. Get back to us will ya? This relates to general knowledge of Nazis of which I think the Thais have none. Nor any knowledge of WW II as a group. I don't think it was a matter of principles but one of self interest.

All the Thais I know who know something about the war ask,"what else could we have done?" The answer is obvious, "lose thousands of young men like everyone else."

Edited March 15, 2013 by chiangmaikelly

[me313]

It's a hot topic on this forum. Is Nazism and Fascism just a fashion trend for "uneducated" Thai people who don't know any better? I think Hitler would have said that the more you lie, the more people believe you (or was that his propaganda minister whatever his name was, don't care but he's relevant to the topic). Now, since I lived in Germany from 1991-1995, and then returned for one year in 2010, I can say that their form of raising the Nazi salute via the media, but obscured so it's not overt, is that they had endless "documentaries" about Hitler on the 3 very boring tv channels, (before cable tv hit Europe big time). Day after day, the ominous Wagneresque music with images of Nazis parading and Hitler saluting them, those images to "never forget" (nie vergessen) really meant, "don't put that hand down, just keep it up, just hide your Swastika" and that is what they did. Then in 2010, when much of the US military had left Germany, the Swastikas are slowly coming out. The double meanings and hidden agendas are not cute, don't imply that people are stupid, the Thai people are definitely not stupid and they know what they are doing. They are empowering their ex-pat financial base and swearing allegiance to Nazis, and they are brainwashing and educating their children to follow so they will receive the financial rewards of more investments more people with a lot o f money moving here. It's very calculated and not some little incident.

[SteeleJoe]

It's a hot topic on this forum. Is Nazism and Fascism just a fashion trend for "uneducated" Thai people who don't know any better? I think Hitler would have said that the more you lie, the more people believe you (or was that his propaganda minister whatever his name was, don't care but he's relevant to the topic). Now, since I lived in Germany from 1991-1995, and then returned for one year in 2010, I can say that their form of raising the Nazi salute via the media, but obscured so it's not overt, is that they had endless "documentaries" about Hitler on the 3 very boring tv channels, (before cable tv hit Europe big time). Day after day, the ominous Wagneresque music with images of Nazis parading and Hitler saluting them, those images to "never forget" (nie vergessen) really meant, "don't put that hand down, just keep it up, just hide your Swastika" and that is what they did. Then in 2010, when much of the US military had left Germany, the Swastikas are slowly coming out. The double meanings and hidden agendas are not cute, don't imply that people are stupid, the Thai people are definitely not stupid and they know what they are doing. They are empowering their ex-pat financial base and swearing allegiance to Nazis, and they are brainwashing and educating their children to follow so they will receive the financial rewards of more investments more people with a lot o f money moving here. It's very calculated and not some little incident.

Wow.

Suddenly some other post(er)s on this thread look much better by comparison.

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