Coruption And Intimidation Even At Thai Universities?

[dave111223]

Our business sources most of our products from suppliers located near MBK. There area is apparently owned by a large and prestigious Bangkok university (naming no names). They are in the process of redeveloping the area and store owners must move out (most are moving a short distant to an area that has already been redeveloped).

The deadline for moving out is approaching and I was shocked to learn that the area has had 3 shop fires (arson) in the last month, and another fire last night. One of our suppliers, who is still in the process of moving, said he had to stay up all night at the front of his store to make sure it wasn't burned down.

Basically paid thugs are going around start fires to get people to move out faster.

We all know that mafia, corruption etc...is prevalent in Thailand, but to think that even one of the biggest universities in the country is involved in that kind of thing boggles the mind a bit.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

it would be easier to list the places in Thailand that are not plagued by corruption.

Can anyone think of any?

[muythai2013]

yes, terrible thing.

you would never find such things as Mafia control in places outside of thailand, like lets say ummmm, Chicago.

I had a friend who closed his tattoo shop in Australia, not because he wanted to.

It is every where in some form.

[aussiebebe]

So, don't these shop owners have insurance? What makes it certain to be arson and not the owners trying to get a payout? Perhaps they can't afford the new rents. Even if it is arson they'll get a payout.
As for Unis being involved, Thais buy degrees so corruption allegations are hardly revelatory.
The real corruption is the extortionate rental rates - I live near a Tesco and when shopping I'll sometimes chat with vendors about how much their rent is... never fails to shock.

[MrWorldwide]

I thought the idea of paying the cops every month was so that you wouldn't have to live with such blatant standover tactics ?

[David48]

We all know that mafia, corruption etc...is prevalent in Thailand, but

to think that even one of the biggest universities in the country is

involved in that kind of thing boggles the mind a bit.

The above quote is from the OP and I believe that it is pure speculation ...

Before you can point the finger affirmatively at the University how about considering who else might benefit by the re-development.

Maybe a builder has been engaged to construct the redevelopment.

There are many 'maybes' to consider.

Deformation is a serious deal in Thailand.

Tread lightly ...

.

[Berkshire]

We all know that mafia, corruption etc...is prevalent in Thailand, but

to think that even one of the biggest universities in the country is

involved in that kind of thing boggles the mind a bit.

The above quote is from the OP and I believe that it is pure speculation ...

Before you can point the finger affirmatively at the University how about considering who else might benefit by the re-development.

Maybe a builder has been engaged to construct the redevelopment.

There are many 'maybes' to consider.

Deformation is a serious deal in Thailand.

Tread lightly ...

.

I don't think this even qualifies as speculation. The OP is making this up out of thin air. Yet another paranoid farang making up conspiracy theories on TV--nothing new. And now, TV members will be commenting on something that doesn't even exist. Just another day at the office.

[farang000999]

why are you buying your supply from a shop owner and not the factory where they are buying the supply from?

[Potosi]

We all know that mafia, corruption etc...is prevalent in Thailand, but

to think that even one of the biggest universities in the country is

involved in that kind of thing boggles the mind a bit.

The above quote is from the OP and I believe that it is pure speculation ...

Before you can point the finger affirmatively at the University how about considering who else might benefit by the re-development.

Maybe a builder has been engaged to construct the redevelopment.

There are many 'maybes' to consider.

Deformation is a serious deal in Thailand.

Tread lightly ...

.

I don't think this even qualifies as speculation. The OP is making this up out of thin air. Yet another paranoid farang making up conspiracy theories on TV--nothing new. And now, TV members will be commenting on something that doesn't even exist. Just another day at the office.

Quite right. Systemic corruption is always associated with dictatorial governments such as Chavez' or Ahmadineshad's, and does not exist in true democracies like Thailand or the US. The OP must be delusional.

[phuturatica]

If the police and government are corrupt in Thailand what makes you think that universities wouldn't be either?!

[David48]

If the police and government are corrupt in Thailand what makes you think that universities wouldn't be either?!

the OP states that "We all know that mafia, corruption etc...is prevalent in Thailand" ... agreed.

There is a difference between suspecting that a University is involved and implicitly imply that the (as yet unnamed) University was the perpetrator of the crime.

.

[MrWorldwide]

implicitly imply ? David, I know how grammar Nazis are treated on TV, but seriously ......

Still haven't seen any firm proof that the aforementioned 'thugs' are on the payroll of the aforementioned 'university-which-cannot-be-named'..

[scorecard]

implicitly imply ? David, I know how grammar Nazis are treated on TV, but seriously ......

Still haven't seen any firm proof that the aforementioned 'thugs' are on the payroll of the aforementioned 'university-which-cannot-be-named'..

Further, don't rule out the possibility that an organized mafia gang, no connection to the uni close by or to the developers, etc., saw an extortion opportunity and they are taking advantage of it. Who knows?

[nong38]

Corruption is part of life here,money talks and fills the spaces, its always been like that and its difficult to see how it can be brought to and end.

You only have to look at the elections, candidates bribing voters so that they can get elected ( hopefully) and get control of some budgets to make some extra on the side, it can be costly especially for the losing candidates.

Dont think it does not go on in the west either, just look at the UK MP's and their expenses, its just another name for corruption and it goes on in UK local Govt as well, outrageous expense claims to jack up their wages, these servants of the people hope the press dont find out whats going on, but they have a habit of finding out sooner or later

Why does the press in Thailand not find any evidence of wrong doing?

The culture is different to what are used to but thats the way it is here.

[yourauntbob]

Not naming names or giving specifics, but i have witnessed first hand corruption at the University level and it was one of the most prestigious Universities in Thailand. This does not surprise me one bit. Corruption, cheating, and zero sum games are so ingrained in the culture its amazing Thailand has made it as far as they have.

[David48]

implicitly imply ? David, I know how grammar Nazis are treated on TV, but seriously ......

Still haven't seen any firm proof that the aforementioned 'thugs' are on the payroll of the aforementioned 'university-which-cannot-be-named'..

I'm normally fairly reliable ... but not one of my finer moments ...

Originally I wrote the 'stated' ... but then reread the OP and meant to change it to allegedly imply and maybe my fat fingers fumbled the spell-checker.

[dave111223]

Sure I guess it could just be the contractors/builders, but you'd think that someone on the University side, heading up the project, would notice that 3 Molotov cocktail fires a month on their land that they are about to develop seems "odd". Any reasonable/non-corrupt organization would speak with the developers after 1 or 2 fires, and be finding new developers after 3 or 4.

As for the comments about insurance...keep in mind that many shop keepers live above their shops, so unless they plan on cashing in their life insurance it would probably not be a good idea to just let it burn.

[chiangmaikelly]

Not naming names or giving specifics, but i have witnessed first hand corruption at the University level and it was one of the most prestigious Universities in Thailand. This does not surprise me one bit. Corruption, cheating, and zero sum games are so ingrained in the culture its amazing Thailand has made it as far as they have.

Either it is amazing Thailand has made it as far as they have or you are wrong. Which is more likely?

[Rancid]

Not naming names or giving specifics, but i have witnessed first hand corruption at the University level and it was one of the most prestigious Universities in Thailand. This does not surprise me one bit. Corruption, cheating, and zero sum games are so ingrained in the culture its amazing Thailand has made it as far as they have.

Either it is amazing Thailand has made it as far as they have or you are wrong. Which is more likely?

Then I suppose he could argue where would Thailand be without corruption, or made it so far despite coruption. Corruption greases the wheels of government, wheels that are by nature prone to obstruction, as such you could argue that without corruption the bureaucracy would strangle growth.

[muythai2013]

in Thailand things are refered to as corruption.

In the west they pass a law and the same things are ok.

[dave111223]

in Thailand things are refered to as corruption.

In the west they pass a law and the same things are ok.

I'd like to know which country it is legal to set fire to someones shop?

[Beetlejuice]

Sure I guess it could just be the contractors/builders, but you'd think that someone on the University side, heading up the project, would notice that 3 Molotov cocktail fires a month on their land that they are about to develop seems "odd". Any reasonable/non-corrupt organization would speak with the developers after 1 or 2 fires, and be finding new developers after 3 or 4.

As for the comments about insurance...keep in mind that many shop keepers live above their shops, so unless they plan on cashing in their life insurance it would probably not be a good idea to just let it burn.

Hearsay, until sources are given or proven otherwise.

What line of business is the OP in?

[dave111223]

What line of business is the OP in?

Clothing (hence why fire could be problematic)

[MrWorldwide]

Not naming names or giving specifics, but i have witnessed first hand corruption at the University level and it was one of the most prestigious Universities in Thailand. This does not surprise me one bit. Corruption, cheating, and zero sum games are so ingrained in the culture its amazing Thailand has made it as far as they have.

Thailand, China, Russia, Malaysia, Indonesia, India, Brazil - need I go on, or have I named enough of the biggest economies in the world for you ? Each riddled with corruption from the lowliest official to the people making the decisions at the top. When the former top dog of the Chinese Communist Party refers to the currenct govt as a 'kleptocracy', what hope for the others on that list ?

As previously mentioned in this thread, those of us who still live in Farangland are routinely treated to corruption cases - usually politicians, but here in Oz we have many people in positions of trust in business who are caught with their 'hand in the till'. Every decade or so, they have to put a broom right through one or more of our state police forces - about the only area which hasnt faced allegations of corruption is our military, mainly because the focus is on bastardisation and sexual assaults. Fantastic stuff.

Lee Kuan Yew and his successors have made corruption a high profile, ongoing target as part of their drive to turn Singapore from a tropical slum in 1960 to the economic miracle it is today, but I doubt that anyone in Singapore believes the country is completely free of corruption. It's human nature to want more than we have, and for some the temptation is just too great. The problem with endemic corruption is that everyone simply throws their hands in the air and says 'Thats just the way it is'. Lee clearly didnt agree - whether you love or hate him, I believe he is one of very few genuinely benevolent dictators and I salute him for pulling off the transformation of the 20th century.

http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/article-99222/fighting-corruption-singapore-way

In 1989, the maximum fine for corruption was increased from Singaporean dollars(S$)10,000 to S$100,000. Giving false information to the CPIB became an offence subject to imprisonment and a fine of up to S$10,000. The courts were empowered to confiscate benefits derived from corruption.

I dont know about you, but I didn't have 100K SGD in 1989 (the Army paid me the princely sum of 24K AUD p.a.), nor did I have any desire to see the inside of their jails. That was around the time the Singaporeans were copping flak from Canberra for their willingness to execute foreigners for drug trafficking - I doubt that they were any kinder to their own countrymen. Tough love.

[muythai2013]

in Thailand things are refered to as corruption.

In the west they pass a law and the same things are ok.

I'd like to know which country it is legal to set fire to someones shop?

I thought that may come up, I forgot things must be spelt out here.

you really think thats what I was refering to do you, many people are moved out of places by law so companies can build there.

there are many legal ways the west does things in many situations that are wrong, but legal.

[Kilgore Trout]

yes, terrible thing.

you would never find such things as Mafia control in places outside of thailand, like lets say ummmm, Chicago.

I had a friend who closed his tattoo shop in Australia, not because he wanted to.

It is every where in some form.

You remind me of when I was in Egypt; the only thing they know when told about Chicago was "Al Capone."

Chicago has no more or less "mafie" than any other city in the US, been that way since prohibition ended.

Jeez

[chiangmaikelly]

yes, terrible thing.

you would never find such things as Mafia control in places outside of thailand, like lets say ummmm, Chicago.

I had a friend who closed his tattoo shop in Australia, not because he wanted to.

It is every where in some form.

You remind me of when I was in Egypt; the only thing they know when told about Chicago was "Al Capone."

Chicago has no more or less "mafie" than any other city in the US, been that way since prohibition ended.

Jeez

On April 25, 2005, the U.S. Department of Justice launched Operation Family Secrets,^[5] which indicted 14 Outfit members and associates under the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO). U.S. District Court Judge James Zagel presided over the Family Secrets trial. The federal prosecutors were Mitchell A. Mars, T. Markus Funk, and John Scully.

The jury found James Marcello, Joseph Lombardo, Frank Calabrese, Sr., Paul Schiro, and Anthony Doyle guilty of all counts, which included extortion, illegal gambling, tax fraud, loan sharking, and murder (Doyle was not found guilty of murder) on September 10, 2007. Scully retired, and Mars died prior to sentencing (which was handled by Funk). Paul Schiro was sentenced to 20 years in prison. Frank Calabrese, Sr. was sentenced to life in prison on January 28, 2009.

I could go on about my own experiences managing restaurants in Chicago with the various city inspectors but this topic is not about that. However I never found any coruption or intimidation at a Chicago or University or college of which there are 80 or so.

Edited March 11, 2013 by chiangmaikelly