Are You Part Of The Farang Detritus Layer?

[phutoie2]

point 6 is why I'm leaving on Tuesday.

13 years it took them to drive me out of here.

There's some folk out there who don't give a toss, we just had a 60 year old bloke from one of the islands who was up here with his bit of stuff over Songkran, and told us that he had never set foot in an immigration office and never worries about the retirement funds as that is what he pays his agent for.

[Gsxrnz]

I've read this entire topic and frankly am both amused and bemused about many of the comments, particularly those of the OP. Surely anybody has the choice to live in any country they choose, subject to the immigration laws of the country of their choice and your personal financial position. The immigration laws (of any/all countries) are subject to change, as is your own financial position due to the whimsy of international financial markets and exchange rates.

If for whatever reason you are either unable or unwilling to comply with the immigration laws of the country you choose, then you will not be able to live there. If your financial situation is such that you are unable to meet the long term visa (retirement) requirements of Thailand (or any other country), then you have to make alternative choices - ipso facto.

If you are less than 50 and have to find alternative methods (visas) of living in Thailand long term, then you will have to work within the immigration laws to achieve your aim - ipso facto.

I should imagine that if your income is less than the 800K THB requirement to get a retirement visa in Thailand, then you won't exactly be living the life of Riley in your own country anyway.

As to the use of the word "detritus", irrespective of whether the OP classes himself as belonging to that group, well that's just inflammatory and unfortunately has somewhat derailed the general discussion in the thread. Sarcasm switch on - Personally I would prefer that you'd used the much more technical phrase "bottom feeder". Sarcasm switch off.

[pokerkid]

It is really worrying the way the economy is going! I personally have been caught of guard with gold , now waiting for it to return other wise I sit on a massive loss (dowry returned) and I bought at 25k baht a baht .

at least you got your dowry back

[bangkokburning]

My prediction is that they will not increase the amount of thb that qualify for visas. 800k per annum is still.a lot of money for a single person to live a simple life here. Ive pointed out the distinct imbalance hete for years.

400k divided by 2 (husband / spouse) is 200k per person. Thai govt has in affect stated that is what it takes to support a simple but adequate life here.

If they are ok with it @ 31 to dollar they are ok at 28.

BOT will have to do something, Thai exorts are about to disappear overnight.

With or witbout us slackers.

[mr78]

Shock, horror, country actually standing up for itself and deciding who should live within its borders, rather than being dictated to by others.

Great well done Thailand, way to go.

Perhaps you would be kind enough to forward this to the UKBA for them to consider.

I feel sure the good citizens of Lampedusa would welcome such an initiative.

Yes! A wery good idea indeed. The next step while working backwards should be to go back to Japans system for the first traders. They let the Dutch traders stay on a small island large enough for a few houses. The only people allowed to socialise with the barbarians were prostitutes. The barbarians were only allowed into the country once a year to make funny dances and play drunk for the Shogun.

With the influx of farangs to Los they would have to set aside a larger island for this system to work. I think Phuket would be ideal for this purpouse.

Edited April 21, 2013 by mr78

[corkythecat]

"My advise to all foreigners, have a back up plan just in case. You probably will not have anything to worry about, but s#!t happens."

A plan similar to Terry Pratchett' "Exit" ? ( Terry Pratchett: Choosing to Die) A very enlightening and disturbing ? video,. cost $10,000

Edited April 21, 2013 by corkythecat

[pistachios]

However, this week, some entirely ridiculous new requirements have been imposed by Phuket immigration for the ED visa

[\quote]

Can you tell me more? I'm just interested to know what these new requirements are.

Simon

I'd like to know as well.

[Eesat]

I've read this entire topic and frankly am both amused and bemused about many of the comments, particularly those of the OP. Surely anybody has the choice to live in any country they choose, subject to the immigration laws of the country of their choice and your personal financial position. The immigration laws (of any/all countries) are subject to change, as is your own financial position due to the whimsy of international financial markets and exchange rates.

If for whatever reason you are either unable or unwilling to comply with the immigration laws of the country you choose, then you will not be able to live there. If your financial situation is such that you are unable to meet the long term visa (retirement) requirements of Thailand (or any other country), then you have to make alternative choices - ipso facto.

If you are less than 50 and have to find alternative methods (visas) of living in Thailand long term, then you will have to work within the immigration laws to achieve your aim - ipso facto.

I should imagine that if your income is less than the 800K THB requirement to get a retirement visa in Thailand, then you won't exactly be living the life of Riley in your own country anyway.

As to the use of the word "detritus", irrespective of whether the OP classes himself as belonging to that group, well that's just inflammatory and unfortunately has somewhat derailed the general discussion in the thread. Sarcasm switch on - Personally I would prefer that you'd used the much more technical phrase "bottom feeder". Sarcasm switch off.

The funniest part is that the OP sounds very elitist and has shown how out of touch with reality he is just by using the term 'Farang Detritus Layer'!

I look forward to the day his pension and investments drop him firmly and unsuspectingly into that layer,with the strength of the Thai Baht against the major hard currencies right now,historically low interest rates killing savings and the threat of a triple dip recession looming for most developed Western nations!

[Dr Wanchai]

"Thailand is continuing with its systematic approach to the removal low net worth foreigners

who are attempting to live here long term."

There's nothing wrong with that. The UK stops all illegal immigrants going in. Every country

try and impose restrictions one way or the other. Can a tourist, if he/she wants to, manage

to get multiple visas and live in UK for years on end without a work permit ? I doubt it.

[maxme]

"Thailand is continuing with its systematic approach to the removal low net worth foreigners

who are attempting to live here long term."

There's nothing wrong with that. The UK stops all illegal immigrants going in. Every country

try and impose restrictions one way or the other. Can a tourist, if he/she wants to, manage

to get multiple visas and live in UK for years on end without a work permit ? I doubt it.

I can agree that there are many leeches in every society however, not to make it sound like a cliché, because of Thailand's so called "special" laws your arguement comes in rather weak.

How many of the companies do provide work permits here? Or how many companies want to follow the new rules for the matter? For every farang you have to employ four Thais and to do what exactly?

Becoming a Thai citizen is somwhat of a hazzle, some have managed others haven't. Are there any benefits of becoming it?

The Thai government has used the situation for decades to roll in money from foreigners without letting them stay and though we have tough laws back in the west, they didn´t pop up out of the blue, despite that we welcome everybody, does Thailand do that?

Every developed country realized long time ago that the society cannot grow in business or in infrastructure without the help of immigrants. Thailand has been and still is on the wrong track and I doubt that will change anytime soon.

Wanna get rid of the bums? Start creating equal rules for foreigners and Thais so there will at least be a cashflow, then they can start sorting those out.

[SamsonSW]

"Thailand is continuing with its systematic approach to the removal low net worth foreigners

who are attempting to live here long term."

There's nothing wrong with that. The UK stops all illegal immigrants going in. Every country

try and impose restrictions one way or the other. Can a tourist, if he/she wants to, manage

to get multiple visas and live in UK for years on end without a work permit ? I doubt it.

I can agree that there are many leeches in every society however, not to make it sound like a cliché, because of Thailand's so called "special" laws your arguement comes in rather weak.

How many of the companies do provide work permits here? Or how many companies want to follow the new rules for the matter? For every farang you have to employ four Thais and to do what exactly?

Becoming a Thai citizen is somwhat of a hazzle, some have managed others haven't. Are there any benefits of becoming it?

The Thai government has used the situation for decades to roll in money from foreigners without letting them stay and though we have tough laws back in the west, they didn´t pop up out of the blue, despite that we welcome everybody, does Thailand do that?

Every developed country realized long time ago that the society cannot grow in business or in infrastructure without the help of immigrants. Thailand has been and still is on the wrong track and I doubt that will change anytime soon.

Wanna get rid of the bums? Start creating equal rules for foreigners and Thais so there will at least be a cashflow, then they can start sorting those out.

But the whole point of Thaland's laws is that those that run the place don't want to compete with those from outside.

Sure they are on the wrong track from an abstract point of view, but short-term self-interest rules here, and the rich Thais would rather keep their big slice of a smaller pie, they don't care about the interest of the country as a whole any more than rich people do in any country.

And the uneducated poor people don't understand how much more open policies would benefit them in the long run, just like they don't understand how much the widespread corruption hurts them and their children's chances to have a better life in the future.

[Soutpeel]

Start creating equal rules for foreigners and Thais so there will at least be a cashflow, then they can start sorting those out.

Nothing to do with equal rules for foreigners, the average johnny foreigner wants to treated differently as it their special

Have a look through mutiple threads on TV, they are bleating on about immmigration and foreigners in their own countries, but here they are in Thailand demanding to be treated with equality and wanting "rights" in Thailand

Face up to it...if your not a Thai PR or citizen, you have no rights. the average demographic of farangs in Thailand do not contribute to Thai society, other than buying an Isaan mansion for their teeraks and keeping the profits up for the Thai breweries.

IMHO, Thailand actually has its immigration policies correct and the way to keep out the "bums" out would be to make it ever harder for someone to live here long term who doesnt have good reason to be here.

For example limit the number of tourist visa's a person can get in one year, or limit the number of days you can stay in country as a tourist to say 6 months out the year

[Soutpeel]

Sure they are on the wrong track from an abstract point of view, but short-term self-interest rules here, and the rich Thais would rather keep their big slice of a smaller pie, they don't care about the interest of the country as a whole any more than rich people do in any country.

And the uneducated poor people don't understand how much more open policies would benefit them in the long run, just like they don't understand how much the widespread corruption hurts them and their children's chances to have a better life in the future.

Why are they on the wrong track, surely you are not advocating an open door policy, the same as europe or UK...look at the mess of the place

Open policies will not benefit the uneducated poor people, in fact it could make things worse for them, and what has corruption got to do with it....ever country in the world is corrupt to varying degree's

[SamsonSW]

Every country with an intelligent economic development policy recognizing the realities of globalization is welcoming migrants that are A wealthy and entrepreneurial or B have desired education and skills.

Every analyst with brains realizes that is the engine behind the superior innovation of the American policy.

Singapore is much more open than Thailand - which do you think will benefit more from ASEAN if that really does open up cross-border migration of professionals?

Even opening your doors to low-skill level poor migrants helps the economy by keeping wages low - not in the interest of the unskilled already-there of course, but yes in the national interest, if only that could translate to ordinary people benefitting today, but their children should do so if they can learn to get off their butts and work as hard as their grandparents had to.

The post WWII generations were a very temporary blip of comfort-from-work benefits, future generations will have to work harder for less and less as the BRICS pass the earlier-developed countries and yes I do think things will equalize at the low end those parts of our "democracies" looking after the lower classes have in effect lost their ability to influence policy anymore.

And I was just giving the much greater levels of corruption as another example of policies that hurt the poor more than the rich, but their lack of education keeps them politically unaware of that effect just as with xenophobia brainwashed into them by the upper classes.

Edited April 24, 2013 by SamsonSW

[Soutpeel]

Every country with an intelligent economic development policy recognizing the realities of globalization is welcoming migrants that are A wealthy and entrepreneurial or B have desired education and skills.

And there you have it...for the most part the vast majority of Farangs wanting to live in Thailand dont fit into either A or B...they vast majority are here because its easy for them to get their leg over thats all. (woops I fogot they here for the temples and beaches)

Singapore does have more open polices but only for people they want, either your catagory A or B

With reference to Thailand if one is in either catagory A or B..you do have the option of PR and eventually citizenship if you can be bothered

[maxme]

Start creating equal rules for foreigners and Thais so there will at least be a cashflow, then they can start sorting those out.

Nothing to do with equal rules for foreigners, the average johnny foreigner wants to treated differently as it their special

Have a look through mutiple threads on TV, they are bleating on about immmigration and foreigners in their own countries, but here they are in Thailand demanding to be treated with equality and wanting "rights" in Thailand

Face up to it...if your not a Thai PR or citizen, you have no rights. the average demographic of farangs in Thailand do not contribute to Thai society, other than buying an Isaan mansion for their teeraks and keeping the profits up for the Thai breweries.

IMHO, Thailand actually has its immigration policies correct and the way to keep out the "bums" out would be to make it ever harder for someone to live here long term who doesnt have good reason to be here.

For example limit the number of tourist visa's a person can get in one year, or limit the number of days you can stay in country as a tourist to say 6 months out the year

That goes under a layer of assumptions. I´ve noticed that a lot of people here on TV, like yourself, categorize members into one or two groups, without bothering finding out the facts about each member. Not everyone here has an Isaan wife, here on tourist visa, a pensioner or a bum. Yet people like you consist in spewing out undigested facts to support your own opinion about critics of the Thai immigration laws.

Although I understand the laws back in the west, I´m not a big fan of them as they too are a result of biased opinion- and assumption making people, such as yourself. Now you are not gonna get rid of the bums here that easily as these bums actually bring money into the Thai society. Set up fair but strict immigration laws once foreigners get a chance to actually become citizens and it´s gonna be easier to weed out the troublesome leeches.

Edited April 24, 2013 by maxme

[SamsonSW]

Every country with an intelligent economic development policy recognizing the realities of globalization is welcoming migrants that are A wealthy and entrepreneurial or B have desired education and skills.

And there you have it...for the most part the vast majority of Farangs wanting to live in Thailand dont fit into either A or B...they vast majority are here because its easy for them to get their leg over thats all. (woops I fogot they here for the temples and beaches)

Singapore does have more open polices but only for people they want, either your catagory A or B

With reference to Thailand if one is in either catagory A or B..you do have the option of PR and eventually citizenship if you can be bothered

Well even if you do fall into category A or B, who cares about PR and eventual citizenship when it is very obvious they are actively discouraging foreigners of any type from setting up shop and competing on a equal playing field even if you did think rule of law was a value here which it isn't.

So they are on the wrong track which is what I said.

[SamsonSW]

Start creating equal rules for foreigners and Thais so there will at least be a cashflow, then they can start sorting those out.

Nothing to do with equal rules for foreigners, the average johnny foreigner wants to treated differently as it their special

Have a look through mutiple threads on TV, they are bleating on about immmigration and foreigners in their own countries, but here they are in Thailand demanding to be treated with equality and wanting "rights" in Thailand

Face up to it...if your not a Thai PR or citizen, you have no rights. the average demographic of farangs in Thailand do not contribute to Thai society, other than buying an Isaan mansion for their teeraks and keeping the profits up for the Thai breweries.

IMHO, Thailand actually has its immigration policies correct and the way to keep out the "bums" out would be to make it ever harder for someone to live here long term who doesnt have good reason to be here.

For example limit the number of tourist visa's a person can get in one year, or limit the number of days you can stay in country as a tourist to say 6 months out the year

That goes under a layer of assumptions. I´ve noticed that a lot of people here on TV, like yourself, categorize members into one or two groups, without bothering finding out the facts about each member. Not everyone here has an Isaan wife, here on tourist visa, a pensioner or a bum. Yet people like you consist in spewing out undigested facts to support your own opinion about critics of the Thai immigration laws.

Although I understand the laws back in the west, I´m not a big fan of them as they too are a result of biased opinion- and assumption making people, such as yourself. Now you are not gonna get rid of the bums here that easily as these bums actually bring money into the Thai society. Set up fair but strict immigration laws once foreigners get a chance to actually become citizens and it´s gonna be easier to weed out the troublesome leeches.

No, there is no need for them to make it easier - as it stands now, not only troublesome leeches, but anyone they decide at any point in the future is no longer worth them putting up with, whatever criteria they want to invent they can do so anytime, as things stand now and clear whatever percentage out they like within a few months no problem.

They have zero desire to increase the numbers of foreigners having the rights of PR or citizenship, I'm sure many feel they're already being too generous with those crown jewels.

Bottom line is don't arrange your affairs on the assumption you'll be allowed to stay long term unless you're so well set up even being asked to bring in multi millions of baht to park here at zero interest wouldn't be a strain. Because I think that day will come, and long before they start really cracking down on the open sex business aspect.

[maxme]

Start creating equal rules for foreigners and Thais so there will at least be a cashflow, then they can start sorting those out.

Nothing to do with equal rules for foreigners, the average johnny foreigner wants to treated differently as it their special

Have a look through mutiple threads on TV, they are bleating on about immmigration and foreigners in their own countries, but here they are in Thailand demanding to be treated with equality and wanting "rights" in Thailand

Face up to it...if your not a Thai PR or citizen, you have no rights. the average demographic of farangs in Thailand do not contribute to Thai society, other than buying an Isaan mansion for their teeraks and keeping the profits up for the Thai breweries.

IMHO, Thailand actually has its immigration policies correct and the way to keep out the "bums" out would be to make it ever harder for someone to live here long term who doesnt have good reason to be here.

For example limit the number of tourist visa's a person can get in one year, or limit the number of days you can stay in country as a tourist to say 6 months out the year

That goes under a layer of assumptions. I´ve noticed that a lot of people here on TV, like yourself, categorize members into one or two groups, without bothering finding out the facts about each member. Not everyone here has an Isaan wife, here on tourist visa, a pensioner or a bum. Yet people like you consist in spewing out undigested facts to support your own opinion about critics of the Thai immigration laws.

Although I understand the laws back in the west, I´m not a big fan of them as they too are a result of biased opinion- and assumption making people, such as yourself. Now you are not gonna get rid of the bums here that easily as these bums actually bring money into the Thai society. Set up fair but strict immigration laws once foreigners get a chance to actually become citizens and it´s gonna be easier to weed out the troublesome leeches.

No, there is no need for them to make it easier - as it stands now, not only troublesome leeches, but anyone they decide at any point in the future is no longer worth them putting up with, whatever criteria they want to invent they can do so anytime, as things stand now and clear whatever percentage out they like within a few months no problem.

They have zero desire to increase the numbers of foreigners having the rights of PR or citizenship, I'm sure many feel they're already being too generous with those crown jewels.

Bottom line is don't arrange your affairs on the assumption you'll be allowed to stay long term unless you're so well set up even being asked to bring in multi millions of baht to park here at zero interest wouldn't be a strain. Because I think that day will come, and long before they start really cracking down on the open sex business aspect.

Meh, me not think so, because that would interrupt the business transactions between pimps and cops. Too many profile figures involved in that kind of business.

[Eesat]

Every country with an intelligent economic development policy recognizing the realities of globalization is welcoming migrants that are A wealthy and entrepreneurial or B have desired education and skills.

And there you have it...for the most part the vast majority of Farangs wanting to live in Thailand dont fit into either A or B...they vast majority are here because its easy for them to get their leg over thats all. (woops I fogot they here for the temples and beaches)

Singapore does have more open polices but only for people they want, either your catagory A or B

With reference to Thailand if one is in either catagory A or B..you do have the option of PR and eventually citizenship if you can be bothered

Serious question,is that what you are here for and if not what?

[somtampet]

The point of the post is this.

There are many people living here on little more than deluded optimism.

Optimism is a good thing.

Failing to acknowledge realities, and acting or planning accordingly, is not.

The criteria for Western farangs to stay here (long term) are going to continue to become more onerous in the immediate future.

ASEAN and inflation are in clear view on the horizon.

If you are part of the farang detritus layer you need to start planning your exit strategy NOW.

Alternatively, you need to start planning how you are going to raise yourself above the socio-economic layer of farangs that the Thai elite are systematically seeking to preclude from this nation.

u must have some time on your hands to even think of that drivel.True or not,nowt to do with u,or me,live your life and stop writing crap

[somtampet]

Most farang bar owners dont have a work permit,but greet customers,go to makro for booze/food etc,serve drinks in bar etc etc,are they harming anybody??????

I have seen russians,that have set up money exchange places,are they harming anybody

[SamsonSW]

Nothing to do with equal rules for foreigners, the average johnny foreigner wants to treated differently as it their special

Have a look through mutiple threads on TV, they are bleating on about immmigration and foreigners in their own countries, but here they are in Thailand demanding to be treated with equality and wanting "rights" in Thailand

Face up to it...if your not a Thai PR or citizen, you have no rights. the average demographic of farangs in Thailand do not contribute to Thai society, other than buying an Isaan mansion for their teeraks and keeping the profits up for the Thai breweries.

IMHO, Thailand actually has its immigration policies correct and the way to keep out the "bums" out would be to make it ever harder for someone to live here long term who doesnt have good reason to be here.

For example limit the number of tourist visa's a person can get in one year, or limit the number of days you can stay in country as a tourist to say 6 months out the year

That goes under a layer of assumptions. I´ve noticed that a lot of people here on TV, like yourself, categorize members into one or two groups, without bothering finding out the facts about each member. Not everyone here has an Isaan wife, here on tourist visa, a pensioner or a bum. Yet people like you consist in spewing out undigested facts to support your own opinion about critics of the Thai immigration laws.

Although I understand the laws back in the west, I´m not a big fan of them as they too are a result of biased opinion- and assumption making people, such as yourself. Now you are not gonna get rid of the bums here that easily as these bums actually bring money into the Thai society. Set up fair but strict immigration laws once foreigners get a chance to actually become citizens and it´s gonna be easier to weed out the troublesome leeches.

No, there is no need for them to make it easier - as it stands now, not only troublesome leeches, but anyone they decide at any point in the future is no longer worth them putting up with, whatever criteria they want to invent they can do so anytime, as things stand now and clear whatever percentage out they like within a few months no problem.

They have zero desire to increase the numbers of foreigners having the rights of PR or citizenship, I'm sure many feel they're already being too generous with those crown jewels.

Bottom line is don't arrange your affairs on the assumption you'll be allowed to stay long term unless you're so well set up even being asked to bring in multi millions of baht to park here at zero interest wouldn't be a strain. Because I think that day will come, and long before they start really cracking down on the open sex business aspect.

Meh, me not think so, because that would interrupt the business transactions between pimps and cops. Too many profile figures involved in that kind of business.

What I meant was that closing down the open sex business is a far-off, low-priority possibility, more remote than getting rid of less-than-rich foreigners.

[SamsonSW]

Most farang bar owners dont have a work permit,but greet customers,go to makro for booze/food etc,serve drinks in bar etc etc,are they harming anybody??????

I have seen russians,that have set up money exchange places,are they harming anybody

What does "harming" have to do with it?

Their goal is to make it expensive and difficult for foreign entrepreneurs, and part of that is forcing us to employ the 3-4 Thais it takes to get one efficient employees work done.

[Soutpeel]

Every country with an intelligent economic development policy recognizing the realities of globalization is welcoming migrants that are A wealthy and entrepreneurial or B have desired education and skills.

And there you have it...for the most part the vast majority of Farangs wanting to live in Thailand dont fit into either A or B...they vast majority are here because its easy for them to get their leg over thats all. (woops I fogot they here for the temples and beaches)

Singapore does have more open polices but only for people they want, either your catagory A or B

With reference to Thailand if one is in either catagory A or B..you do have the option of PR and eventually citizenship if you can be bothered

Serious question,is that what you are here for and if not what?

I came here to work

[Soutpeel]

Most farang bar owners dont have a work permit,but greet customers,go to makro for booze/food etc,serve drinks in bar etc etc,are they harming anybody??????

I have seen russians,that have set up money exchange places,are they harming anybody

What does "harming" have to do with it?

Their goal is to make it expensive and difficult for foreign entrepreneurs, and part of that is forcing us to employ the 3-4 Thais it takes to get one efficient employees work done.

Actually they make it "difficult" & "expensive" for certain types of "entrepreneurs" if a large company shows interest in opening up in Thailand, they bend over backwards to help them ie the BOI

[maxme]

Most farang bar owners dont have a work permit,but greet customers,go to makro for booze/food etc,serve drinks in bar etc etc,are they harming anybody??????

I have seen russians,that have set up money exchange places,are they harming anybody

What does "harming" have to do with it?

Their goal is to make it expensive and difficult for foreign entrepreneurs, and part of that is forcing us to employ the 3-4 Thais it takes to get one efficient employees work done.

Actually they make it "difficult" & "expensive" for certain types of "entrepreneurs" if a large company shows interest in opening up in Thailand, they bend over backwards to help them ie the BOI

I take it you got help from BOI...