My Thai Wife Wants To Buy Land In Her Married Name

[Waveraiderfromoz]

MyThai wife talked me into buying 80 rai land for farming near NokhonSawan for our future
when I retire. I was told it had deeds/papers the best there is. Her father is looking after the land and has planted sweet potato and is havesting it now, but because her last name is mine, the land had to be bought in her mother's name (wrong move). I am moving to Thailand soon to retire and was
told I have to have a letter saying I have no financial claim to it so the deeds can be changed to my wife's name.

Can someone who has bought land provide me with some information? I am very worried
that the mother will not sign over the land because this will be "loss of
face". I trust my wife 100% but not the influence her mother has over her.

Thanks for any feedback.

[meatboy]

could be you and your wf. have been led up the garden path or maybe and i say maybe you have been had.my wife who has a farang surname,in her id.card and passport but had no problem buying land,she could also prove where the money came from if needed.just hope her parents sign it over to you[wf] so you can get on with your life.its very hard to trust thai's where there's money involved after 30yrs and reading some horific stories you can understand what i am saying.good luck

[bdenner]

Be very careful if TW has siblings or other family members who may claim portions of the land on Mother in Laws untimley demise, also with the titles in her name she has the ability to 'hock', or worse still, sell the land from under your nose at any time.

We have 3 properties, 2 chanoot titled and the 3rd is farm land on a lower title, all in TW's married name. In each case I had to produce my passport and sign a waiver disclaiming ownership and financial interest.

BUT in saying that I did something I swore I was never going to do and that was lend a family member a chanoot as collateral on a loan so as he could get work overseas. Having my family name on the chanoot STOPPED the land bank from lending the money, we had to go to the titles office and I had to make out a declaration approving the transaction. THAT WAS A POSITIVE. I have no claim but at least I have a say!

[ThailandInvestmentGuide]

The original arrangement may have been based on a genuine misunderstanding as, many years ago, a Thai married to a foreigner could not buy land. Either way you need to have the land transferred to your wife as soon as possible (or to your child/children if they are Thai citizens). The other thing to consider is whether it is worth having your MIL grant you a usufruct before the transfer takes place (and only on the basis of a transfer to your wife, rather than minor children).

[Martyjustice]

Me and the TW just got a house in Warin. Both of our names are on the deed. But I had to sign a statement of non-control. The TW has full control of deed and when she passes must sell to a Thai. Make sure her thai id card is in the correct name. Also if you start buying alot of land you may have to get an approval.

[meatboy]

Me and the TW just got a house in Warin. Both of our names are on the deed. But I had to sign a statement of non-control. The TW has full control of deed and when she passes must sell to a Thai. Make sure her thai id card is in the correct name. Also if you start buying alot of land you may have to get an approval.

regarding if your wf.goe's before you,have wills drawn up and she can stipulate her wishes in it if she goe's first.we have just done our's and the house is to be left to a member of her family,but i can continue to live in it untill my passing away so the member of her family cannot sell as long as i continue to live in the house.this my wf.has done legally and above board.

[DickS]

I just went through the home/land sales process and it was required in Korat Land Office that I sign a document that the money and property belong to wife and are not common property. I was advised by lawyer before that this would be the case. See the following link for more details.

http://www.thailawonline.com/images/documents/Principle_for_Acquisition_of_Land%5B1%5D.pdf

[TommoPhysicist]

could be you and your wf. have been led up the garden path or maybe and i say maybe you have been had.my wife who has a farang surname,in her id.card and passport but had no problem buying land,she could also prove where the money came from if needed.just hope her parents sign it over to you[wf] so you can get on with your life.its very hard to trust thai's where there's money involved after 30yrs and reading some horific stories you can understand what i am saying.good luck

I agree with meatboy, this was bought in her mothers name for one of two three reasons

Reason 1

She has debts in Thailand, and can't own any land until the court order is wiped (ten years)

Reason 2

She doesn't want to divide the value of the land if you divorce (marital assets are shared property, most of the time)

Reason 3 (extremely unlikely but not unheard of)

She is already married to someone else.

For those of you signing documents at the land office stating land is 'sin suan tua', if you can prove the money came from you, court will divide 50/50 on divorce. Putting it in mum's name, overcomes this small worry for the lady. Now already married to someone else, very unlikely if you married at an Amphur office in Thailand.

Edited March 11, 2013 by TommoPhysicist

[TommoPhysicist]

Me and the TW just got a house in Warin. Both of our names are on the deed. But I had to sign a statement of non-control. The TW has full control of deed and when she passes must sell to a Thai. Make sure her thai id card is in the correct name. Also if you start buying alot of land you may have to get an approval.

This just isn't true

A foreigner can inherit land in Thailand, they then have a year to sell or transfer their inheritance ...... but nobody checks, so you can often just keep it.

Your whole post is so incorrect, you either totally misunderstood what the documents were or someone has been lying to you.

[DiamondKing]

Utter CROCk mate your wife can buy land in her married name in fact I just did the same thing and the Chanote is in the wifes MARRIED NAME in addition to that you can also get your name on the Chanote via a INSUFRUCT (which I have) which can be for any amount of years you wish or for your Lifetime

What this does is give you FULL CONTROL of the property and enjoyment of the fruits of the property she however owns th eproperty but you have the right of enjoyment for the amount of years the insufruct is for if lifetime its until you die.

if you split she is the one that has to leave since you have full control of the property and you can even rent it out and keep the rent until the end of the Insufruct.

this does not stop her from selling the property but no one will be interested when they see the INSUFRUCT stamped on the back of the chanote with your name on it

If you had a lifetime insufruct upon your death it reverts back to the owner (your wife) if you did it for 10 year 20 or 30 after that term it reverts back.

If you are not legally married to your thai wife then the INSUFRUCT cannot be cancelled in any way until its term ends however if you are married legally it could be terminated after a divorce court battle but it has to not have a third party involced so if you as the insufruct owner leasei it to your kids that then messes up the legal status and the cours cannot overturn the original insufruct.

If your wife dies then you have 12 months to sell the property or tranfer to your kids or other thai family member.

That is the best way to protect your interests in purchasing a thai property other than not purchasing at all.

http://thedi.ethz.ch/faq/usufruct.html

Edited March 11, 2013 by DiamondKing

[NanLaew]

Or.... you can just rent.

[DiamondKing]

Or.... you can just rent.

Yes you can but I think thre is so much BS out there about how you cannot own (which you cannot) but there is a way you are fully protected at least to be able to control the property until your death or 50 years and that is with an INSUFRUCT so if you are a 45-60 year old and know you want to stay here then this is a good option and while you may NOT be able to sell and get your money back (without the wifes co-operation) you can enjoy your purchase without worrying about being thrown out and losing everything.

Of course if your stupid enough to buy in the wifes village in the middle of know where then you might not want to be living there all alone best buy in a nice city so if it goes tits up you are least are in a palce you can continue with your life without her and enjoying the property you bought.

Edited March 11, 2013 by DiamondKing

[davejones]

You want to start farming when you retire? That's very hard work for a retiree. Are you sure you want to become a farmer?

[mrbojangles]

Utter CROCk mate your wife can buy land in her married name in fact I just did the same thing and the Chanote is in the wifes MARRIED NAME

What the Op doesn't make clear is whether him and his wife were in Thailand or not at the time they were purchasing the land. If not in the country and you cannot sign the paper at the Amphur stating you didn't give her the money then they won't let you do it.

It happened to us a few years ago. My wife and Daughter had gone on holiday earlier than me and a piece of land we had wanted for ages came up for sale at the right price. The wife went to the Amphur but as she has a farang surname and I wasn't there to sign the paper stating she didn't get the money from me, they said no. Therefore she bought it in her brothers name and we transferred it once I got there.

1) You have to trust whosever name you put it in. Our BiL is great and came up trumps like we knew he would.

2) You have to pay the transfer tax again.

[BEVUP]

Be very careful if TW has siblings or other family members who may claim portions of the land on Mother in Laws untimley demise, also with the titles in her name she has the ability to 'hock', or worse still, sell the land from under your nose at any time.

We have 3 properties, 2 chanoot titled and the 3rd is farm land on a lower title, all in TW's married name. In each case I had to produce my passport and sign a waiver disclaiming ownership and financial interest.

BUT in saying that I did something I swore I was never going to do and that was lend a family member a chanoot as collateral on a loan so as he could get work overseas. Having my family name on the chanoot STOPPED the land bank from lending the money, we had to go to the titles office and I had to make out a declaration approving the transaction. THAT WAS A POSITIVE. I have no claim but at least I have a say!

Quite a few points here

1 - You were told best deed Nor sor 4 (chanoote )

Answer - Read some where before if it is farm land granted by Gov. Nor Sor 3 ? or less it is only to passed on through family

& is much easier at some Amphurs with original family name (but why couldnt wife show change of name Cert.

from Amphur

2 - As post 8 says

3 - & post 3 - Im not saying your wrong but i cannot understand how you could stop this even though your wife has

your name. You even mentioned u have no financial interest in the properties no doubt by signing through the Amphur. & even if yu had a Usufrut onn it to the best of my knowledge is whoever has name on title is allowed to do as they please (good example is my wife) Thais will do anything for family

I dont know all, but just my thoughts from what i learn (right or wrong from here & experience ) & maybe ive left something out

[transam]

For your future.

[Khun Jean]

If you are not legally married to your thai wife then the INSUFRUCT cannot be cancelled in any way until its term ends however if you are married legally it could be terminated after a divorce court battle but it has to not have a third party involced so if you as the insufruct owner leasei it to your kids that then messes up the legal status and the cours cannot overturn the original insufruct.

This contains UTTER CROCK too, mate as some things in your other posts.

A lease to your kids or anyone else does not change anything. It only means that for a maximum period of three years the land is not fully available.

Where did the the 50 years come from? It is for live or another agreed upon term with a maximum of 30 years.

BTW it is USUFRUCT.

And "know where" is certainly different as "nowhere"

[hanuman2543]

could be you and your wf. have been led up the garden path or maybe and i say maybe you have been had.my wife who has a farang surname,in her id.card and passport but had no problem buying land,she could also prove where the money came from if needed.just hope her parents sign it over to you[wf] so you can get on with your life.its very hard to trust thai's where there's money involved after 30yrs and reading some horific stories you can understand what i am saying.good luck

I agree with meatboy, this was bought in her mothers name for one of two three reasons

Reason 1

She has debts in Thailand, and can't own any land until the court order is wiped (ten years)

Reason 2

She doesn't want to divide the value of the land if you divorce (marital assets are shared property, most of the time)

Reason 3 (extremely unlikely but not unheard of)

She is already married to someone else.

For those of you signing documents at the land office stating land is 'sin suan tua', if you can prove the money came from you, court will divide 50/50 on divorce. Putting it in mum's name, overcomes this small worry for the lady. Now already married to someone else, very unlikely if you married at an Amphur office in Thailand.

If you buy the land with money which is your sin suan tua you will get everything back in the case of divorce . It is possible that you are charged with violation of section 137 and 267 Thai Penal Code for lying when you sign the waiver at the Land Office .

[ballbreaker]

OP just have the MIL gift land to your TW. If your told cannot be done then you are being screwed by TW and family.

Many years ago my TW's mother gifted land to TW without any problems. Wife said she encountered no problems at land office even though she had my last name.

[bkk_mike]

could be you and your wf. have been led up the garden path or maybe and i say maybe you have been had.my wife who has a farang surname,in her id.card and passport but had no problem buying land,she could also prove where the money came from if needed.just hope her parents sign it over to you[wf] so you can get on with your life.its very hard to trust thai's where there's money involved after 30yrs and reading some horific stories you can understand what i am saying.good luck

I agree with meatboy, this was bought in her mothers name for one of two three reasons

Reason 1

She has debts in Thailand, and can't own any land until the court order is wiped (ten years)

Reason 2

She doesn't want to divide the value of the land if you divorce (marital assets are shared property, most of the time)

Reason 3 (extremely unlikely but not unheard of)

She is already married to someone else.

For those of you signing documents at the land office stating land is 'sin suan tua', if you can prove the money came from you, court will divide 50/50 on divorce. Putting it in mum's name, overcomes this small worry for the lady. Now already married to someone else, very unlikely if you married at an Amphur office in Thailand.

Reason 4 - husband wasn't in the country at the time and so couldn't go to the land office to sign the piece of paper that they require foreign spouses to sign saying they have no claim to the property. (might only be husbands, not sure.)

Given OP said he's moving to Thailand, and so obviously not IN Thailand at the moment, that seems at least as likely as the reasons you've given.

Edited March 17, 2013 by bkk_mike

[swissie]

Oh boy! Us farangs could basically lead a worriefree life in Thailand. But no, we do everything to stack the odds against us.

- Farangs can't wait to officially marry their Thai Female Companion (30 % of Thai-Couples are not even legally married.)

- Next thing: The Thai Wife developes a unexplainable urge "to buy land", if possible from within the "family". Aaaahhhhhhhh!

Folks, it has been said before: If the s*it hits the fan, the farang can only loose. No previously drawn up "contracts" will prevent this from happening.

- A word to the "Usufruct-Community": Will you really insist on your "Usufruct-Privileges" after things have turned sour, when you have to buy new tires for your car on a weekly basis, your dogs were poisoned, your power supply goes down for days at the time etc. etc.

I bet, one would be happy to give up any "Usufruct-Privileges" and only wanting to get out of paradise (alive, with no broken bones).

Cheers.

[Waveraiderfromoz]

Well am still waiting for my wife's mother to sign the land over to my wife, I have given them a letter saying I have no financial claim stamped by my embassy. I have got a bad feeling that my wife's mother has taken out a loan on the land and cannot transfer to my wife's name. They keep telling me that it's something to do with government land in the area and cannot transfer or sell for 5 years, what a load of shit. I've lost the money, stupid me for getting sucked in.

[Zao]

Well am still waiting for my wife's mother to sign the land over to my wife, I have given them a letter saying I have no financial claim stamped by my embassy. I have got a bad feeling that my wife's mother has taken out a loan on the land and cannot transfer to my wife's name. They keep telling me that it's something to do with government land in the area and cannot transfer or sell for 5 years, what a load of shit. I've lost the money, stupid me for getting sucked in.

Well, you are obviously in the midst of this and stressing a bit, so I'll post quickly. Not all is lost, by any means. It has a good chance of working out well. To me, it sounds like your wife genuinely would like to transfer to her name (ie, is not attempting to avoid a possible 50/50 worst-case split, etc).

However, you've left out a key point, which could give all us know-it-alls better insight into some of the surprises your wrestling with: when did the purchase take place?

Several quick points:

1. The 5 years may be legit for several reasons (from tax to land-usage type, etc), which others will fill in: depends a little on how many years ago you bought
2. If ultimately it "cannot" be transferred, you will be able to figure out fairly quickly the real reason: you can quickly determine if the deed has been used for a loan; you can quickly clarify the usage issues, etc
3. There was a time - not that many years ago - when your wife could not put land in her name because of the marriage to a foreigner
4. You've made a great investment for the future (assuming you bought at the right price, and frankly even if you didn't). 80 rai! Great job. With hope, you will be a part of that future, ha ha. My guess is you will, though plenty of horror stories, too
5. If as worst case, at the end of all this, the transfer to her name cannot be done, you still can at least arrange rights to use/farm the land in your wife's name, which is a big part of why you purchased

To the previous post about "farming in retirement", of course OP and wife are not planning to do the farming themselves, but rather to manage the annuity. They might even develop a portion into commercial or residential, depending on usage options. Land's a great investment, if you have a good wife and Thai family.

If...

[FiftyTwo]

Me and the TW just got a house in Warin. Both of our names are on the deed. But I had to sign a statement of non-control. The TW has full control of deed and when she passes must sell to a Thai. Make sure her thai id card is in the correct name. Also if you start buying alot of land you may have to get an approval.

natonality does not affect rights of inheritance.

your name isnt on the deed. if you think it is, you are a fool.

have someone not connected to your wife read the deed for you.

Edited January 10, 2014 by FiftyTwo

[Commander Tamson]

Read TommoPhysicist's post (#9). This is the way to go. My properties are in the (long term) gf's name, but if she passes away before me, I inherit it all, which is allowed. The one year to sell I'll worry about it ever happens. Bottom line however is to keep the in-laws out of any and all agreements.

Good luck mate

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[rayongchelsea]

Where is the chanote. Get it translated. ? If they can't give you the chanote..it's been handed over as a loan.

Why oh why do farangs just willy nilly hand over money to Thai families when they wouldn't lend to their own kin at home.It is partly the wife's fault for failing to protect her husband.

You may wish to pay off the loan, or at least discuss doing so. The land may not be mortgaged fully.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Water Buffalo]

Utter CROCk mate your wife can buy land in her married name in fact I just did the same thing and the Chanote is in the wifes MARRIED NAME

What the Op doesn't make clear is whether him and his wife were in Thailand or not at the time they were purchasing the land. If not in the country and you cannot sign the paper at the Amphur stating you didn't give her the money then they won't let you do it.

It happened to us a few years ago. My wife and Daughter had gone on holiday earlier than me and a piece of land we had wanted for ages came up for sale at the right price. The wife went to the Amphur but as she has a farang surname and I wasn't there to sign the paper stating she didn't get the money from me, they said no. Therefore she bought it in her brothers name and we transferred it once I got there.

1) You have to trust whosever name you put it in. Our BiL is great and came up trumps like we knew he would.

2) You have to pay the transfer tax again.

Does this, therefor, mean that if she keeps her maiden name, but is married to a foreigner, no such document has to be signed?

[Martyjustice]

To Fiftytwo. I can read my name in thai. And I am not a fool. Been married to the same TW for over 40 years now. I know how to be nice or keep my mouth shut, too bad thats not true for everyone.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[simon43]

You want to start farming when you retire? That's very hard work for a retiree. Are you sure you want to become a farmer?

Not sure if anyone has pointed out that if you are on a 'retirement visa/extension' you are not legally allowed to work (not even as an unpaid volunteer).

Oh, and farming is a restricted occupation for foreigners....

Good luck

[Waveraiderfromoz]

I bought the land 2 years ago, my wife's father is farming the land, not me, I haven't seen any profit as yet.