Saudi Arabia Executes 7 Men By Firing Squad

[Sing_Sling]

who are we to judge the laws of any country than those of our home country?

in my home country Germany i can be fined if i mow my lawn on a sunday and i can go to jail if wear any Nazi insignia or greet my neighbour with the right hand raised saying "Sieg Heil!" indiscrimate, outdated and unacceptable punishment? no, not for me, because i know that's the law. but it seems indiscriminate, outdated and unacceptable for my Thai neighbour who will also think that death sentences in China for corrupt government officials are outdated.

Who are we to judge? Well, I would suggest that 'we' would be people with a sense of morals that differ from those which cling to barbaric practices, especially state-sponsored executions.

Screeching at people while yelling Sieg Heil should be responded to with either a swift kick in the googlies or a sneer . . . ad for lawnmowing on Sundays should be punishable by listening to heintje or Nana Mouskouri at full blast for three hours while watching Manta and Manta Manta five tomes in a row

[h5kaf]

People who live and work in Saudi know the rules. It's the same in Thailand or anywhere else in the world. If you break the rules in any country you will have to suffer the local consequences. It's simple really. If you don't like the rules or customs, leave.

This is the same, in principle, as those who whinge about the corruption in Thailand, China or anywhere else. recognise the local customs and live with it, or get out and go somewhere that suits better.

Whilst the death penalty is somewhat harsh for crimes which in the UK would get a fine or a slap on the wrist, it does have the benefit of selectively reducing the gene pool. A final thought: I wonder if the death penalty for driving offences in the UK would reduce the traffic jams on the motorways.

[laislica]

Your friend is a liar. no woman was stoned in Saudi Arabia since King Faisal took over in 1964. Faisal issued a royal decree that any death sentence on a woman is carried out by decapitation. an exception was the execution of princess Mashaal bint Fahd who was shot in public in 1977 even though she was sentenced, based on Sharia law, to be stoned because she committed adultery. i was there and saw it!

A friend of mine worked in Saudi Arabia several years ago. Shortly after his arrival his Saudi "friends" took him down to Chop-Chop Square and made sure he was in the front row. A woman was being executed for adultery, or something like that, and was stoned to death. A phrase he used "teeth flying everywhere" still sticks in my mind.

Saudi Arabia needs to move out of the 11th century and into the 21st.

A quick google confirms that you are correct. Well, you meet all kinds of characters here in Thailand!

Although I was wrong about the method of execution used, I still say that indiscriminate use of the Death Penalty is simply unacceptable nowadays.

who are we to judge the laws of any country than those of our home country? i agree that the indiscriminate use of the death penalty is outdated. but what is the definition of "indiscriminate"? is it indiscriminate or outdated if punishments are handed out according to prevailing laws?

in my home country Germany i can be fined if i mow my lawn on a sunday and i can go to jail if wear any Nazi insignia or greet my neighbour with the right hand raised saying "Sieg Heil!" indiscrimate, outdated and unacceptable punishment? no, not for me, because i know that's the law. but it seems indiscriminate, outdated and unacceptable for my Thai neighbour who will also think that death sentences in China for corrupt government officials are outdated.

Just because a thing is law does not mean that it is right, that applies to any country.

Yes indeed, they could even allow by Law such things as having marriage and intercourse with youngsters, multiple wives etc etc but would it be right.

I worked in Saudi in the 60's and they did the hand chop/head publicly in those days, although they moved them to Taif from Ridah because of international pressure.

There is no doubt that it did curb crime, problem always was proof that the convicted was actually guilty. To be wrongly convicted of a crime is unthinkable.

Back in the day, when involved in a traffic accident, say you were Teeboned at a junction, totally the other's fault - no question, right.

Wrong, you were 50% to blame just for being there. Had you not been there, there would have been no incident!

There is a kind of logic in that actually. Drive as if you are responsible for all the other stupid people around, you will proceed at a slow pace and there will never be a problem.......?

[canuckamuck]

I think it is nice that they are trying new things.

[Thorgal]

A friend of mine worked in Saudi Arabia several years ago. Shortly after his arrival his Saudi "friends" took him down to Chop-Chop Square and made sure he was in the front row. A woman was being executed for adultery, or something like that, and was stoned to death. A phrase he used "teeth flying everywhere" still sticks in my mind.

Saudi Arabia needs to move out of the 11th century and into the 21st.

your friend is a liar. no woman was stoned in Saudi Arabia since King Faisal took over in 1964. Faisal issued a royal decree that any death sentence on a woman is carried out by decapitation. an exception was the execution of princess Mashaal bint Fahd who was shot in public in 1977 even though she was sentenced, based on Sharia law, to be stoned because she committed adultery. i was there and saw it!

Sharia Laws cannot be undone, as it is impossible to cancel.

Majority of Saudi's are strict Wahhabi's.

Now, the stoning-practice for adultery has only been suspended, and replaced often by beheading...

And I'm not really convinced with your "I was there and I saw it !"...

Edited March 17, 2013 by Thorgal

[spud67]

The group of men, who were all in their early 20s when they were
executed on Wednesday, were arrested in 2006 and charged with organizing
a criminal group, armed robbery and raiding and breaking into jewellery
stores in 2005. They were sentenced to death by a court in Abha in
August 2009.

....So, they were 14 to 17 years old at the time of the crime? Yeah, that would be pretty harsh. Amazing how those school kids were in charge of 'organizing a criminal group' etc.

[Zatoichi]

Personally I think it's sad that they moved away from their traditions in this instance. I think this was someone's idea of a Public Relations stunt. They should just continue to do their thing.

Presumably you feel the same about Western nations preserving their own traditions and cultural identity.

Within their borders? Absolutely, 100%

[folium]

Personally I think it's sad that they moved away from their traditions in this instance. I think this was someone's idea of a Public Relations stunt. They should just continue to do their thing.

Presumably you feel the same about Western nations preserving their own traditions and cultural identity.

Interesting comment....

Exactly which "traditions and cultural identity" do you mean as both have been very fluid concepts over time (particularly in the UK)? Are we back on the "indigenous/non-indigenous" routine again?

[Kananga]

 

A friend of mine worked in Saudi Arabia several years ago. Shortly after his arrival his Saudi "friends" took him down to Chop-Chop Square and made sure he was in the front row. A woman was being executed for adultery, or something like that, and was stoned to death. A phrase he used "teeth flying everywhere" still sticks in my mind.

Saudi Arabia needs to move out of the 11th century and into the 21st.

your friend is a liar. no woman was stoned in Saudi Arabia since King Faisal took over in 1964. Faisal issued a royal decree that any death sentence on a woman is carried out by decapitation. an exception was the execution of princess Mashaal bint Fahd who was shot in public in 1977 even though she was sentenced, based on Sharia law, to be stoned because she committed adultery. i was there and saw it!

I guess that makes it alright then, I'm referring to the execution being public, not whether or not capital punishment should be allowed.

P.S Popcorn or Nachos?

 

Whilst I personally disagree with the death penalty some nations which actually still carry out executions will use the argument that a potential sentence of death acts as a deterrent. Using that logic, though statistically flawed, one could argue that public execution should act as an even greater deterrent.

This is a very good point. While I was living in Singapore the topic of conversation would occasionally turn to Singapore's extremely high levels of capital punishment per capita. When questioned about it our Singaporean friends would proudly state that it is a necessary deterrent to keep the country safe. To which I replied, if it was successful deterrent then surely only a low number of people would meet this fate. As the number is so high not only is the deterrent not working but all the crimes that these people committed are also happening too.

Always got the same response. Angry embarrassed faces....

[HeavyDrinker]

I'd like to try 'death by wife' which takes about 50 years and is agonising....

[Sing_Sling]

 

I guess that makes it alright then, I'm referring to the execution being public, not whether or not capital punishment should be allowed.

P.S Popcorn or Nachos?

 

Whilst I personally disagree with the death penalty some nations which actually still carry out executions will use the argument that a potential sentence of death acts as a deterrent. Using that logic, though statistically flawed, one could argue that public execution should act as an even greater deterrent.

This is a very good point. While I was living in Singapore the topic of conversation would occasionally turn to Singapore's extremely high levels of capital punishment per capita. When questioned about it our Singaporean friends would proudly state that it is a necessary deterrent to keep the country safe. To which I replied, if it was successful deterrent then surely only a low number of people would meet this fate. As the number is so high not only is the deterrent not working but all the crimes that these people committed are also happening too.

Always got the same response. Angry embarrassed faces....

That's odd because in my six years of living there, there were no embarrassed faces regarding this topic aside form the ones who were embarrassed that they still had executions.

36% of people executed are non-Singaporeans, according to 2003 figures.

I don't ascribe to the whole notion of the death penalty being a deterrent, however . . . and in Saudi's case even less so

[Kananga]

 

P.S Popcorn or Nachos?

 

Whilst I personally disagree with the death penalty some nations which actually still carry out executions will use the argument that a potential sentence of death acts as a deterrent. Using that logic, though statistically flawed, one could argue that public execution should act as an even greater deterrent.

This is a very good point. While I was living in Singapore the topic of conversation would occasionally turn to Singapore's extremely high levels of capital punishment per capita. When questioned about it our Singaporean friends would proudly state that it is a necessary deterrent to keep the country safe. To which I replied, if it was successful deterrent then surely only a low number of people would meet this fate. As the number is so high not only is the deterrent not working but all the crimes that these people committed are also happening too.

Always got the same response. Angry embarrassed faces....

That's odd because in my six years of living there, there were no embarrassed faces regarding this topic aside form the ones who were embarrassed that they still had executions.

36% of people executed are non-Singaporeans, according to 2003 figures.

I don't ascribe to the whole notion of the death penalty being a deterrent, however . . . and in Saudi's case even less so

It's not odd at all. We just spoke to people with differing opinions. And I was there longer than you, which would mean that statistically there is a higher probability of...oh yeah, statistics. Never mind.

[HeavyDrinker]

36% of people executed are non-Singaporeans, according to 2003 figures.

Well that's all tickety boo then...I must visit some time soon...

[Sing_Sling]

P.S Popcorn or Nachos?

 

Whilst I personally disagree with the death penalty some nations which actually still carry out executions will use the argument that a potential sentence of death acts as a deterrent. Using that logic, though statistically flawed, one could argue that public execution should act as an even greater deterrent.

This is a very good point. While I was living in Singapore the topic of conversation would occasionally turn to Singapore's extremely high levels of capital punishment per capita. When questioned about it our Singaporean friends would proudly state that it is a necessary deterrent to keep the country safe. To which I replied, if it was successful deterrent then surely only a low number of people would meet this fate. As the number is so high not only is the deterrent not working but all the crimes that these people committed are also happening too.

Always got the same response. Angry embarrassed faces....

That's odd because in my six years of living there, there were no embarrassed faces regarding this topic aside form the ones who were embarrassed that they still had executions.

36% of people executed are non-Singaporeans, according to 2003 figures.

I don't ascribe to the whole notion of the death penalty being a deterrent, however . . . and in Saudi's case even less so

It's not odd at all. We just spoke to people with differing opinions. And I was there longer than you, which would mean that statistically there is a higher probability of...oh yeah, statistics. Never mind.

Lies, damn lies and statistics . . .

[Naam]

I'd like to try 'death by wife' which takes about 50 years and is agonising....

you mean 16 years of suffering for me?

[Steely Dan]

Personally I think it's sad that they moved away from their traditions in this instance. I think this was someone's idea of a Public Relations stunt. They should just continue to do their thing.

Presumably you feel the same about Western nations preserving their own traditions and cultural identity.

Interesting comment....

Exactly which "traditions and cultural identity" do you mean as both have been very fluid concepts over time (particularly in the UK)? Are we back on the "indigenous/non-indigenous" routine again?

Well, let's see. Here's a quick list of some of the things which are cornerstones to much western culture.

Freedom of speech,

Freedom to follow any religion, or none at all.

Equal rights under the law for all based on gender, sexual orientation, race.

Traditions? How about Christmas, Easter, The Friday night piss up, The Saturday morning fry up. Freedom for women to wear micro skirts on Blackpool seafront in winter, with nothing but Smirnoff to keep them warm.

You know, if Saudi Arabia were in a sealed container I would give little thought to what they decide on a National level, but instead they spend billions on exporting their doctrine of intolerance and division to the rest of the world, attacking the cornerstones of our traditions and cultural practices whilst never bending an inch themselves.

As for cultural identity being fluid, well yes, but a nation can have an overall view of what is a positive or negative change and campaign for the former and resist the latter. Even Saudi Arabia is not immune to this entirely. An Imam who murdered his 5 year old daughter was due to be released by a Sharia court until the Royal family intervened to block his release. Under Sharia Fathers can't be executed for murdering their children. Now the public outrage this case caused resulted in what I would consider a positive change, as I would dispensing with beheadings, would you not agree?

http://www.yalibnan.com/2013/02/14/saudi-royal-family-blocks-the-release-of-preacher/

P.S Indigenous? - Stop trolling

Edited March 18, 2013 by Steely Dan

[tgeezer]

The problem is with the confessions as far as I am concerned. A well connected local in the UAE told me in conversation that he could get me locked up and held incommunicado for,as long as he liked, enquiries by friends embassy etc. would simply be denied.

Mixing cultures can be risky, things can go wrong easily. An ex-patriot made friends with his colleagues, behaving with them just as he would in his own society. The rest of the family are not involved but Inevitably, pleasantries with the distaff side may have been exchanged at the occasional company parties where every nationality turns up. The concept is; big buffet, mainly Western music, booze available, The chairman makes a showing, the GM, also a local, stays longer, but the minions bring the whole family taking what ever is going free. Office staff mainly local and front line all mingling. . Kids are allowed, they stay outside, occasionally coming in on some pretext to see mother, most of the indians bring children, few of the locals do. There are tables on the lawn outside the banqueting rooms where the kids had entertained themselves, watching the vast bar-b-ques and playing about, families generally follow their children out there when it is time to eat by the light of tempory lanterns. It is at an international hotel, it is Christmas for some and New Year for others, good times merriment and equality for all.

After one of these bashes the daughter who had a crush on this chap, one of the few local children to attend, boasted of a relationship to her school friends. They must have been overheard and the story moved from the kids circle to the adult circle. It couldn't be ignored so finally, indignant, the father confronted his daughter who was frightened by her father's interrogation had been scolded by her mother and had to admit that it was true, something the father would never have believed of a fellow arab colleague perhaps.

Somehow it became public knowledge. The law took over, the family stuck together and it was Arabia versus the West, the heavens fell in for the ex-pat, locked up, ignorant of the crime and required to confess.

He confessed after a long time to gain access to the law. Subsequent protests from his government that he was coerced, that he had no access to the law, were fruitless, he was guilty, he had said so. The police had done a damned fine job, he was a paedo. In fact Paedophilia was added for the benefit of the Western media, from the Local's point of view this just confirms all the preducdices which this pure society has against the free living Westerners whom they have to tolerate.

What should his punishment be? Few people feel free to make an objective decision, there are those who say "lock him up and trow away the key"and there are those who say he didn't do it "kiss his ass and set him free" and by so saying make themselves suspect.

NB. This is fiction, I have given his side if the story, did he do it or didn't he? In the context of armed bank robbery, how easy it would be to blame someone else especially if those were already marginalized in some way, if the police believe that they are the criminals and lock them up, the outcome is inevitable.

Confessions are useless in the absence of proof but too often swallowed whole by those who want to believe them.

[laislica]

I'd like to try 'death by wife' which takes about 50 years and is agonising....

you mean 16 years of suffering for me?

If this means that you've already served 34 years of your 50 year sentence then I take my hat off to you. I baled after only 25.....

[balo]

A death sentence for armed robbery ? Jeez that's a bit harsh.

Yeah. First offence.

At least they will not commit the same crime again. So death penalty really works......

[ALFREDO]

A friend of mine worked in Saudi Arabia several years ago. Shortly after his arrival his Saudi "friends" took him down to Chop-Chop Square and made sure he was in the front row. A woman was being executed for adultery, or something like that, and was stoned to death. A phrase he used "teeth flying everywhere" still sticks in my mind.

Saudi Arabia needs to move out of the 11th century and into the 21st.

your friend is a liar. no woman was stoned in Saudi Arabia since King Faisal took over in 1964. Faisal issued a royal decree that any death sentence on a woman is carried out by decapitation.

exception was the execution of princess Mashaal bint Fahd who was shot in public in 1977, an even though she was sentenced, based on Sharia law, to be stoned because she committed adultery. i was there and saw it!

A quick google confirms that you are correct.

Well, you meet all kinds of characters here in Thailand!

Although I was wrong about the method of execution used, I still say that indiscriminate use of the Death Penalty is simply unacceptable nowadays.

"exception was the execution of princess Mashaal bint Fahd who was shot in public in 1977, i was there and saw it! "

Than -Naam- should also have seen, the even more bloody execution of the Princess friend,

"Khaled, after being forced to watch her execution, was beheaded with a sword by, it is believed, one of the princess's male relatives. It took five blows to sever his head, which was not the work of a professional executioner.^[3][8] Both executions were conducted near the palace in Jeddah, not in the public execution square in Jeddah."

You are right, -otherstuff1957- when you write, "Well, you meet all kinds of characters here in Thailand!"

A real "Insider" -Naam- but you can see his hardness, already a bit in his chosen avatar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misha'al_bint_Fahd_al_Saud

[Steely Dan]

A friend of mine worked in Saudi Arabia several years ago. Shortly after his arrival his Saudi "friends" took him down to Chop-Chop Square and made sure he was in the front row. A woman was being executed for adultery, or something like that, and was stoned to death. A phrase he used "teeth flying everywhere" still sticks in my mind.

Saudi Arabia needs to move out of the 11th century and into the 21st.

your friend is a liar. no woman was stoned in Saudi Arabia since King Faisal took over in 1964. Faisal issued a royal decree that any death sentence on a woman is carried out by decapitation.

exception was the execution of princess Mashaal bint Fahd who was shot in public in 1977, an even though she was sentenced, based on Sharia law, to be stoned because she committed adultery. i was there and saw it!

A quick google confirms that you are correct.

Well, you meet all kinds of characters here in Thailand!

Although I was wrong about the method of execution used, I still say that indiscriminate use of the Death Penalty is simply unacceptable nowadays.

"exception was the execution of princess Mashaal bint Fahd who was shot in public in 1977, i was there and saw it! "

Than -Naam- should also have seen, the even more bloody execution of the Princess friend,

"Khaled, after being forced to watch her execution, was beheaded with a sword by, it is believed, one of the princess's male relatives. It took five blows to sever his head, which was not the work of a professional executioner.^[3][8] Both executions were conducted near the palace in Jeddah, not in the public execution square in Jeddah."

You are right, -otherstuff1957- when you write, "Well, you meet all kinds of characters here in Thailand!"

A real "Insider" -Naam- but you can see his hardness, already a bit in his chosen avatar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misha'al_bint_Fahd_al_Saud

Perhaps Naam was there in spirit not in body.

So the enthusiastic amateur swordsman took five attempts to remove someone's head for the crime of adultery. Consider this, there are 46 foreign maids awaiting execution in Saudi Arabia. Five swipes times 46 could mean the executioner would be in danger of getting a repetitive strain injury. Aside from this I never realized domestic helpers were habitually serious criminals. Still with many Countries now banning domestic workers from going to Saudi Arabia I guess repetitive strain will be shared between Saudi Nationals when they have to lower themselves to cleaning their own latrines, the exercise should indeed be beneficial for the third laziest nation on Earth.

[Scott]

Do I dare ask, what are the first two countries?

[Steely Dan]

Do I dare ask, what are the first two countries?

I know what you were thinking. But actually Malta and Swaziland top the league.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/saudi-arabia-world-s-third-laziest-nation-study-466512.html#.UUm3BRz-FqU

[Naam]

Perhaps Naam was there in spirit not in body.

So the enthusiastic amateur swordsman took five attempts to remove someone's head for the crime of adultery.

Consider this, there are 46 foreign maids awaiting execution in Saudi

Arabia. Five swipes times 46 could mean the executioner would be in

danger of getting a repetitive strain injury. Aside from this I never

realized domestic helpers were habitually serious criminals. Still with

many Countries now banning domestic workers from going to Saudi Arabia I

guess repetitive strain will be shared between Saudi Nationals when

they have to lower themselves to cleaning their own latrines, the

exercise should indeed be beneficial for the third laziest nation on

Earth.

keep on dreaming!