Morakot Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 (edited) Cooperative Bank gave me the advice Are we aiming for the Elusive Thread Award? What Coop Bank, in which country? Edited March 18, 2013 by Morakot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicog Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 It used to pish me right off having to ring the UK to unblock my card every time, until someone let slip that they have to pay for the call. So now I tell them it's 15 quid for a roaming call from Thailand to the UK (which it usually is), and they deposit that into my account. On that basis, I don't mind the inconvenience and the protection it offers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bpuumike Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 As mentioned above, limit your daily ATM withdrawal amount - with Bangkok Bank it's THB40K by default. I always use my free hand to cover the keypad when I enter my PIN, something I started years ago in Europe as cams were sometimes placed on the underside of the top of the ATM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paz Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 (edited) In the eu I have protection in my homecountry , also when someone take my money during withdrawal ! The insurance does not cover a street thiefs that take your bag, only under life danger! I must ask my bank about this kind of protection outside Europe! Stop posting such utter BS. The liability of the credit card company stops the minute the transaction is complete and the money comes out of the ATM. NO credit card company will reimburse you, even if you are robbed the second the money comes out. The credit card company would not even reimburse you when you are forced at gun point to do your withdrawl. You might have a private insurance for theft cases, but that is all you could have. Actually it is you that should stop accusing others. Beside credit card withdrawals (that nobody in his right mind should do, use a debit card for that), my credit card(s) comes with insurance against breakage and theft. Not all credit cards have the same level of protetcion, so please check facts before speaking. Edited March 18, 2013 by paz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss1960 Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 In the eu I have protection in my homecountry , also when someone take my money during withdrawal ! The insurance does not cover a street thiefs that take your bag, only under life danger! I must ask my bank about this kind of protection outside Europe! Stop posting such utter BS. The liability of the credit card company stops the minute the transaction is complete and the money comes out of the ATM. NO credit card company will reimburse you, even if you are robbed the second the money comes out. The credit card company would not even reimburse you when you are forced at gun point to do your withdrawl. You might have a private insurance for theft cases, but that is all you could have. Actually it is you that should stop accusing others. Beside credit card withdrawals (that nobody in his right mind should do, use a debit card for that), my credit card(s) comes with insurance against breakage and theft. Not all credit cards have the same level of protetcion, so please check facts before speaking. Seems I know a bit more than you with 15y of payment card industry know-how... I talked about the money getting stolen after it comes out of the ATM, since the op wrote about "also when someone take my money during withdrawal". That definitely is not covered by the General Terms & Conditions (GT&C)of your card (whether credit nor debit). "Insurance" against breakage and theft, you would have to explore further: First, tell me what you mean with "breakage": Broken card or hacked / skimmed card? Either it is your liability cut within your GT&C, then it is not an insurance but the liability policy of your card company (again, no matter whether debit or credit). If it is another insurance, then most definitely it would be part of a broader travel insurance that would cover theft of the money, then it most definitely is not an insurance by your card issuing bank but an additional service that they offer together with the card but hav outsource to an insurance company. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paz Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 In the eu I have protection in my homecountry , also when someone take my money during withdrawal ! The insurance does not cover a street thiefs that take your bag, only under life danger! I must ask my bank about this kind of protection outside Europe! Stop posting such utter BS. The liability of the credit card company stops the minute the transaction is complete and the money comes out of the ATM. NO credit card company will reimburse you, even if you are robbed the second the money comes out. The credit card company would not even reimburse you when you are forced at gun point to do your withdrawl. You might have a private insurance for theft cases, but that is all you could have. Actually it is you that should stop accusing others. Beside credit card withdrawals (that nobody in his right mind should do, use a debit card for that), my credit card(s) comes with insurance against breakage and theft. Not all credit cards have the same level of protetcion, so please check facts before speaking. Seems I know a bit more than you with 15y of payment card industry know-how... I talked about the money getting stolen after it comes out of the ATM, since the op wrote about "also when someone take my money during withdrawal". That definitely is not covered by the General Terms & Conditions (GT&C)of your card (whether credit nor debit). "Insurance" against breakage and theft, you would have to explore further: First, tell me what you mean with "breakage": Broken card or hacked / skimmed card? Either it is your liability cut within your GT&C, then it is not an insurance but the liability policy of your card company (again, no matter whether debit or credit). If it is another insurance, then most definitely it would be part of a broader travel insurance that would cover theft of the money, then it most definitely is not an insurance by your card issuing bank but an additional service that they offer together with the card but hav outsource to an insurance company. Jeez, gotta love the know-it-all-because-its-my work like you. Here's the fine print of insurance agaisnt robbery and other scams: insurance against theft of cash withdrawn from ATMs during assault or under threat of physical violence, as long as the theft happens during the cash withdrawal or within 2 hours of thereafter http://www.citibank.cz/czech/gcb/personal_banking/english/insurance/secured_insurance.htm And yes, the item breakage or theft is covered by a third party company, so what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlow999 Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 3 million GBP? Big bloody deal in the scheme of things. I wonder what that actually represents as a % of all profits made by said bank through their customers use of these 'cards' when they travel to Thailand? Let's all stop using cards if the banks will no longer guarantee to cover you for theft or fraud where it can be proven. Use cash or TC's. When the banks back home start losing out on all the fees and currency conversion margins attached to those 'cards', they will soon be forced to cop it on the chin. Part of the cost of doing business, so to speak. "Let's all stop using cards..."! Sure, when every TV member does that it will make a huge dent in the banks profits; the banks that read this will be quaking in their boots! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morakot Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 (edited) Well at this point of the match thread, we have a short break and will review the basics when not to use an ATM: Edited March 18, 2013 by Morakot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlow999 Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 You bought something in a Shop? I read One Time The Indian Orient carpet dealers, most of them have a black market device to Copy the card ! In the eu I have protection in my homecountry , also when someone take my money during withdrawal ! The insurance does not cover a street thiefs that take your bag, only under life danger! I must ask my bank about this kind of protection outside Europe! But a good advice go to the counter directly with your passport , and ask for Visa cash coasts around 5€ for one time use! Strange place to buy something, you're right, in a shop! You should change your TV name to" Sandman77!", or are your keyboard full stop and exclamation mark keys interlinked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endure Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 In the eu I have protection in my homecountry , also when someone take my money during withdrawal ! The insurance does not cover a street thiefs that take your bag, only under life danger! I must ask my bank about this kind of protection outside Europe! Stop posting such utter BS. The liability of the credit card company stops the minute the transaction is complete and the money comes out of the ATM. NO credit card company will reimburse you, even if you are robbed the second the money comes out. The credit card company would not even reimburse you when you are forced at gun point to do your withdrawl. You might have a private insurance for theft cases, but that is all you could have. Actually it is you that should stop accusing others. Beside credit card withdrawals (that nobody in his right mind should do, use a debit card for that), Unless you're from the UK where the Halifax CC is cheaper than all but two debit cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDGRUEN Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Anywhere in the world one can carry a prepaid Debit/ATM card (tagged with Visa/MasterCard/American Express) and use it quite safely. Some of these cards can be 'charged up' - money added to the debit card on the card issuers secure website. Just add what you need (and no more) for a given day/weekend/special event/travel. If the card is compromised - then there is not much potential loss. Some of the cards do not have the PIN number embedded in the magnetic stripe on the card. In this case the PIN number can be changed immediately on a secure website or by an 800/888 number should the need arise. In the USA some prepaid Debit/ATM cards can be charged up by an ACH transfer from your checking account. A good example of this type of card is the American Express - Walmart Bluebird card ... >Anywhere in the world one can carry a prepaid Debit/ATM card (tagged with Visa/MasterCard/American Express) and use it quite safely. Some of these cards can be 'charged up' - money added to the debit card on the card issuers secure website. Just add what you need (and no more) for a given day/weekend/special event/travel. If the card is compromised - then there is not much potential loss. Some of the cards do not have the PIN number embedded in the magnetic stripe on the card. In this case the PIN number can be changed immediately on a secure website or by an 800/888 number should the need arise. In the USA some prepaid Debit/ATM cards can be charged up by an ACH transfer from your checking account. A good example of this type of card is the American Express - Walmart Bluebird card ... And they charge a fortune in 'fees' to charge the card, or non-use of the card as well as high currency loading to use the card. Edit.: I refer to non-worldwide currencies. The almighty dollar rules. From my experience - the fee to charging the card ranges from Zero to about $3.00 ... so not sure what you mean by 'fortune'. The point of the latest Prepaid Cards is reduced risk... change PINS, put in only what you need, recharge as needed easily. Lose the card - cancel the card - not your checking account... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianCR Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 It is easy to have your bank set a maximum daily ATM withdrawal limit.That's old hat!Just stop being mean and arrange with your bank to inform you by SMS the MOMENT any withdrawl is made from your account! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss1960 Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Actually it is you that should stop accusing others. Beside credit card withdrawals (that nobody in his right mind should do, use a debit card for that), my credit card(s) comes with insurance against breakage and theft. Not all credit cards have the same level of protetcion, so please check facts before speaking. Seems I know a bit more than you with 15y of payment card industry know-how... I talked about the money getting stolen after it comes out of the ATM, since the op wrote about "also when someone take my money during withdrawal". That definitely is not covered by the General Terms & Conditions (GT&C)of your card (whether credit nor debit). "Insurance" against breakage and theft, you would have to explore further: First, tell me what you mean with "breakage": Broken card or hacked / skimmed card? Either it is your liability cut within your GT&C, then it is not an insurance but the liability policy of your card company (again, no matter whether debit or credit). If it is another insurance, then most definitely it would be part of a broader travel insurance that would cover theft of the money, then it most definitely is not an insurance by your card issuing bank but an additional service that they offer together with the card but hav outsource to an insurance company. Jeez, gotta love the know-it-all-because-its-my work like you. Here's the fine print of insurance agaisnt robbery and other scams: insurance against theft of cash withdrawn from ATMs during assault or under threat of physical violence, as long as the theft happens during the cash withdrawal or within 2 hours of thereafter http://www.citibank.cz/czech/gcb/personal_banking/english/insurance/secured_insurance.htm And yes, the item breakage or theft is covered by a third party company, so what. Well, I was completely right with what I did write, thank you for confirming... your card does NOT come with an insurance, your bank offers you to buy an optional insurance from a third party... the insurance you mention is sold to you for a premium of CZK 89 per month (approx. 135THB), deducted from your card account. In case of such an event, you don't even send the claim to your bank but directly to the insurance company... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDGRUEN Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 (edited) Some of the cards do not have the PIN number embedded in the magnetic stripe on the card. In this case the PIN number can be changed immediately on a secure website or by an 800/888 number should the need arise. NO bank card has the PIN number embedded in the mag stripe anymore. The one field that is embedded is called PVV (4 digit PIN Verification Value) which can be used by VISA / MC / Amex to do PIN verification on their own in case of Stip (Stand-In processing on behalf of the Issuing bank). Whether or not such Stip processing is allowed or not (and up to which value and for which transaction types) depends on the definitions of the Issuing Bank. Okay - I may be referring to some algorithm embedded in the card stripe such as the 4 digit pin verification value you refer to. When I worked for a bank only two years ago it was spoken of as a the PIN number being embedded ecoded in some manner. Never the less, the PrePaid Debit/ATM cards I have been using which allow the PIN number to be changed in seconds on a secure web site do not seem to have any 4 digit pin verification value embedded in the card. I change the PIN online and in a matter of 5 to 10 minutes I can use the card with the new pin number - so I do not see how a pre-embedded verification code set to verify the original pin on the card could verify a pin changed online only minutes before. Edited March 18, 2013 by JDGRUEN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss1960 Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Some of the cards do not have the PIN number embedded in the magnetic stripe on the card. In this case the PIN number can be changed immediately on a secure website or by an 800/888 number should the need arise. NO bank card has the PIN number embedded in the mag stripe anymore. The one field that is embedded is called PVV (4 digit PIN Verification Value) which can be used by VISA / MC / Amex to do PIN verification on their own in case of Stip (Stand-In processing on behalf of the Issuing bank). Whether or not such Stip processing is allowed or not (and up to which value and for which transaction types) depends on the definitions of the Issuing Bank. Okay - I may be referring to some algorithm embedded in the card stripe such as the 4 digit pin verification value you refer to. When I worked for a bank only two years ago it was spoken of as a the PIN number being embedded ecoded in some manner. Never the less, the PrePaid Debit/ATM cards I have been using which allow the PIN number to be changed in seconds on a secure web site do not seem to have any 4 digit pin verification value embedded in the card. I change the PIN online and in a matter of 5 to 10 minutes I can use the card with the new pin number - so I do not see how a pre-embedded verification code set to verify the original pin on the card could verify a pin changed online only minutes before. You are right, it can not. When you change your PIN on a secure web-site or at an ATM (possible for some cards from some banks, specially in the UK and for MC cards), then the new PIN code will be stored (again encrypted and not in clear) in your banks authorisation systems HSM (HW Security Module). The basic rule for cash advance is that PIN check is always online against your banks authorisation system, hence the PVV will not be used. However - we don't want to make it to easy - the PVV which also resides on the chip of your card could be changed through a special script that will be sent to the next EMV capable device where you enter your card and then the PVV would be correct on your card. Nowaday, with the high-coercivity magstripes, writing back to the magstripe will not be possible anymore. The older low-coercivity were rewritable, but the lifespan of the magstripe was too low and with todays 3y validity unusable. However, most banks will calculate the new PVV code of your card and send it to VISA / MC central servers in order to use in case of Stand In Processing (STIP) transactions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWorldwide Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 You bought something in a Shop? I read One Time The Indian Orient carpet dealers, most of them have a black market device to Copy the card ! In the eu I have protection in my homecountry , also when someone take my money during withdrawal ! The insurance does not cover a street thiefs that take your bag, only under life danger! I must ask my bank about this kind of protection outside Europe! But a good advice go to the counter directly with your passport , and ask for Visa cash coasts around 5€ for one time use! Strange place to buy something, you're right, in a shop! You should change your TV name to" Sandman77!", or are your keyboard full stop and exclamation mark keys interlinked? I have some other suggestions for a more appropriate board name, but I expect that I would be booted if I made them public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Re the OP's original notion of his bank supposedly wanting to withdraw its bankcard fraud protections for transactions done in Thailand, it seems that though the OP was using some variety of UK bankcard. If it were a U.S. bank card, the consumer fraud protections for credit and debit cards are spelled out in federal law -- so the consumer coverage is mandated, and it's not something that individual banks have the discretion to change or cancel. In the UK, I'm assuming there's also some kind of similar law, though I'll leave it to the UK folks as to what it does or doesn't mandate. Presumably the OP's UK bank would be obligated to follow the terms of the UK's consumer protection law for bankcards....even for transactions in Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiangmaikelly Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Is there any Thai Visa rule that would prevent the OP from telling us which bank he is using? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easyride Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Anywhere in the world one can carry a prepaid Debit/ATM card (tagged with Visa/MasterCard/American Express) and use it quite safely. Some of these cards can be 'charged up' - money added to the debit card on the card issuers secure website. Just add what you need (and no more) for a given day/weekend/special event/travel. If the card is compromised - then there is not much potential loss. Some of the cards do not have the PIN number embedded in the magnetic stripe on the card. In this case the PIN number can be changed immediately on a secure website or by an 800/888 number should the need arise. In the USA some prepaid Debit/ATM cards can be charged up by an ACH transfer from your checking account. A good example of this type of card is the American Express - Walmart Bluebird card ... >Anywhere in the world one can carry a prepaid Debit/ATM card (tagged with Visa/MasterCard/American Express) and use it quite safely. Some of these cards can be 'charged up' - money added to the debit card on the card issuers secure website. Just add what you need (and no more) for a given day/weekend/special event/travel. If the card is compromised - then there is not much potential loss. Some of the cards do not have the PIN number embedded in the magnetic stripe on the card. In this case the PIN number can be changed immediately on a secure website or by an 800/888 number should the need arise. In the USA some prepaid Debit/ATM cards can be charged up by an ACH transfer from your checking account. A good example of this type of card is the American Express - Walmart Bluebird card ... And they charge a fortune in 'fees' to charge the card, or non-use of the card as well as high currency loading to use the card. Edit.: I refer to non-worldwide currencies. The almighty dollar rules. From my experience - the fee to charging the card ranges from Zero to about $3.00 ... so not sure what you mean by 'fortune'. The point of the latest Prepaid Cards is reduced risk... change PINS, put in only what you need, recharge as needed easily. Lose the card - cancel the card - not your checking account... Sooooooooo sorry I said fortune, perhaps I should have said pittance? And yes, I'm aware of how they're supposed to work. Are you a banker? Then you'll be happy filching my money! I'm not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunFon Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 I think it's clear by now that the thread's title is flat-out silly, and possibly the whole OP is just rumour mongering. However this thread could be be very valuable if people that actually know what they are talking about could please post (or link to) specific information on how to reduce these risks as much as possible? Clearly indicating the country, step-by-step procedures and names of financial institutions recommended. And ideally without implying that people without as much information as you, or coming from wildly-different home jurisdictions are somehow mentally defective. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 (edited) It depends some on whether you're asking about people using Thai bank cards, where there is no legal fraud protection, or their home country cards, where often there is... Two entirely different worlds, and the rules generally will be specific to the country in which the card was issued. But there are some common elements in terms of card security: --Always check and know the daily expenditure limits for each card you're using, in terms of POS (Point of Sale) purchases and ATM withdrawals. Sometimes, you bank will allow you to change the limits on your card to an amount that makes you feel comfortable. Other times, they have set amounts and won't adjust them. --Check and see if your bank has available the newer style micro-chip embedded credit or debit cards, since they can be more secure than the traditional magnetic strip kind of cards. But also be sure to understand from your bank what kind of card system they're using and whether you'll be able to use the card where you want to use it. For example, BKK Bank has a chipped Be1st Smart debit card, but it isn't compatible with any other Thai bank ATMs or most bank ATMs in the U.S. --Don't carry many cards in your wallet. Carry one debit and one credit card, and leave any others secured in a safe or at home. That way if your wallet is stolen, your exposure is limited. --Keep a list of your cards, card numbers and the lost/stolen card phone numbers for your issuing banks, so you'll be able to promptly contact them in the event of a loss. --Check with your card issuing banks and see if they have a system whereby you can receive an SMS message or email anytime your card is used for an ATM withdrawal or POS purchase. --In terms of using ATMs, those inside or attached to bank branches likely will be more secure and have less of a risk of tampering (like skimming hardware) vs. standalone ATMs that may not be checked/maintained as regularly. --Likewise, try not to use ATMs late at night, in isolated location, and when inebriated. Be mindful of anyone loitering around the ATM when you go to use it, as they may be trying to spy on your PIN number and/or looking to rob you. --For those using foreign cards for ATM withdrawals, the best best is AEON ATMs because they don't charge the standard Thai banks 150 baht ATM withdrawal fee. AEON offices and standalone ATMs are located in many major malls or shopping complexes, and often in Big C and Tesco stores. --For those using Thai bank ATM cards (where there is no legal fraud protection), keep only a small balance in the savings account attached to the ATM card, and keep the bulk of your funds in a sister account at the same bank that doesn't have any linked ATM card. You can then transfer funds via online banking into the ATM card account as needed. --If you're nervous about ATMs, banks in Thailand often will do what's called a counter withdrawal where you go to the bank teller, present your VISA or MC, and ask for a cash withdrawal from that card. No ATM fee involved, but sometimes the Thai bank tellers won't want to do the transaction and will tell you to use the ATM instead. In that event, try a different bank or teller. The one other downside to this approach is that the Thai banks will require you to present your passport to do a counter withdrawal, meaning you'd have to be carrying it. --In terms of POS transactions, try to keep an eye on your card (not let it out of your sight). If you have a choice, instead of letting the waiter/waitress take your card away, get the bill and walk up to the cashier and pay direct there. And, if in doubt, just pay cash that you've withdrawn from a fee-free AEON ATM. --For foreign card holders, try to find and use bank cards that charge no foreign currency fee of their own. And if you can't find a zero fee card in your home country, at least try to minimize the fee by using one with a modest 1% or so foreign currency fee. Try to avoid the cards with foreign currency fees of 2%, 3% or higher. --Some banks and brokerage houses also have bank cards that not only are foreign currency fee-free, but also will reimburse you for other banks' ATM fees (like the Thai banks' 150 baht withdrawal fee) at months end. Others will charge a 1% FCC at time of purchase, but then will rebate that fee at month's end for qualifying accounts that meet whatever conditions the bank may have. Edited March 20, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss1960 Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 GREAT advice, John, agree with every single point. Two more ideas: -- try to find banks that offer online services, download the app to your smartphone and check your card transactions daily in order to be the first to find out, whether your card has been skimmed (copied) and misused. -- talk to your bank and tell them where you go. Very often, when cards are skimmed, they will not be used in the same country but sold to fraudsters in other countries (i.e. cards skimmed in Russia normally pop up in Asia, cards skimmed in the Ukraine normally pop up in Northern America). If your bank has decent fraud detection systems, they can enter this information into their system and protect you better. As an Add-On: In April 2012, the European Central Bank ECB has issued a paper called "Recommendations for the security of Internet Payments" which contains a lot of future requiremenst for payment service providers (issuing banks), not only with regards to Internet Payments, but also in general for payments. Recommendation 14 "Verification of payment execution by the customer" talks about providing secure transaction review for the customer, enabling customers to set their own limits, enabling customer to block / enable his cards for certain countries and / or for certain purchasing transaction types only. If these recommendations become mandatory (recommendation by ECB is as of 1 July 2014), then you could really configure your card le'ts say "Thailand transactions only in May 2015, no cash transactions, only Restaurants and General Shopping, no electronics, max transaction amount 300$, max combined transaction amoutn in May 2015 1'500$ - and all should be able to be changed online by the customer... Sounds perfect for customers who will know what they do, but will be horror for the Issuing banks both in terms of investments needed and in terms of customers who will call and say "why can I not do my transaction" and then we have to check his settings and tell him what he messed up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeownership Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 Would nice to name the Bank. Screaming the sky is falling isn't going to cut it. Not all banks have that policy. Ya gotta agree with that. What bank? Lloyds TSB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeownership Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 Just drop the maximum withdraw limit on your card down to a few hundred dollars per day. When you first arrived on TV you posted for all to see that you were a wealthy, self made, internet super entrepreneur. So it goes without saying that you would be online every day AND that a loss of a few hundred dollars would be of absolutely no consequence to the wealth you claim to have. Super entrepreneur my ar_se... What do my claims matter to you, its my money and I will spend as I wish. Thank you very much. As for the loss of a few hundred pounds, I didnt make make my money by throwing it away, yes it is a consequence and your post shows how little you know about wealthly people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeownership Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 Re the OP's original notion of his bank supposedly wanting to withdraw its bankcard fraud protections for transactions done in Thailand, it seems that though the OP was using some variety of UK bankcard. If it were a U.S. bank card, the consumer fraud protections for credit and debit cards are spelled out in federal law -- so the consumer coverage is mandated, and it's not something that individual banks have the discretion to change or cancel. In the UK, I'm assuming there's also some kind of similar law, though I'll leave it to the UK folks as to what it does or doesn't mandate. Presumably the OP's UK bank would be obligated to follow the terms of the UK's consumer protection law for bankcards....even for transactions in Thailand. I think you have hit the nail on the head, Thailand doesnt fall under the UK and so its at the banks discretion to agree cover with notice. I have just been notified that cover has been withdrawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeownership Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 Re the OP's original notion of his bank supposedly wanting to withdraw its bankcard fraud protections for transactions done in Thailand, it seems that though the OP was using some variety of UK bankcard. If it were a U.S. bank card, the consumer fraud protections for credit and debit cards are spelled out in federal law -- so the consumer coverage is mandated, and it's not something that individual banks have the discretion to change or cancel. In the UK, I'm assuming there's also some kind of similar law, though I'll leave it to the UK folks as to what it does or doesn't mandate. Presumably the OP's UK bank would be obligated to follow the terms of the UK's consumer protection law for bankcards....even for transactions in Thailand. I think you have hit the nail on the head, Thailand doesnt fall under the UK and so its at the banks discretion to agree cover with notice. I have just been notified that cover has been withdrawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 I can't speak to the UK consumer banking protections laws...not being a UK native. But in the U.S., the U.S. federal law that limits consumer liability for bank card fraud applies to transactions made BOTH in the U.S. and in foreign countries as well. Typically, what matters is the country where the bank that issued the card is located. And the banking rules of that country apply to that card wherever in the world it may be used. As a result, for example, if someone is using a Thai bank card in the U.S., the Thai banking rules (and rules of the bank that issued the card) will apply. And the U.S. protections won't apply at all, because it's not a U.S. issued bank card. In that same way, I wouldn't think a UK bank would be able to apply one set of cardholder liability rules for transactions made in the UK and elsewhere abroad, but a different set of rules for some country or countries that they don't like (Thailand). I'd be surprised if the pertinent UK banking regulations would permit that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardholder Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Cooperative Bank gave me the advice Are we aiming for the Elusive Thread Award? What Coop Bank, in which country? Googling first would have avoided you showing your ignorance You would have found this:- http://www.co-operativebank.co.uk/servlet/Satellite/1193206375355,CFSweb/Page/Bank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 (edited) Here's what a quick UK search shows: Your account has been used without your permission An unauthorised transaction on your account is money going out of, or into your account, that you didn't know about and haven't allowed. An example is something that has been paid for with your credit card that you didn't know about, and haven’t given your permission for.If you think there has been an unauthorised transaction on your account, you should tell your bank or building society as soon as possible. This should be no later than 13 months after the transaction.You will be legally responsible for any unauthorised withdrawals which are made before you tell your bank or building society about losing your card or chequebook. However, this will only be up to a maximum of £50, unless you have acted fraudulently or been negligent. You will not be liable for any unauthorised withdrawals after you have told your bank or building society, unless you have acted fraudulently or been negligent. An example of acting fraudulently or being negligent would be if you kept your pin number written down with your card. If there is an unauthorised transaction on your account, you may be a victim of identity theft. For more information, see Identity theft. http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/debt_e/debt_banking_e/banking___security_and_fraud.htm#your_account_has_been_used_without_your_permission And another UK resource on consumer bankcard protection: http://www.choose.net/money/guide/faqs/credit-card-fraud-victim-rights.html And another summary from the UK Cards Assn: UK cardholders are not financially liable for fraud on their cards. However, card fraud is a real problem and costs the UK hundreds of millions of pounds a year. Fraud on cards has a high cost to society as it is often used to fund other serious organised crime. Although the personal cost of card fraud for innocent cardholders isn’t financial, there is the inconvenience of reporting an incident and providing any relevant documentation. There is also the inconvenience and frustration of being without your cards and waiting for any fraudulent activity on your account to be reversed or offset, as well as the fear and sense of violation that occurs. If you are unlucky enough to become a victim of fraud you are protected by the Lending Code and should not suffer any financial loss as a consequence – provided you have not acted fraudulently or without reasonable care (e.g. you haven’t written down your PIN and haven’t disclosed it to someone else). If you are shown to have acted fraudulently or without reasonable care, for example, by keeping your PIN written down with your card, you risk having to meet all the losses on your account. Edited March 25, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss1960 Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Would nice to name the Bank. Screaming the sky is falling isn't going to cut it. Not all banks have that policy. Ya gotta agree with that. What bank? Lloyds TSB Would you kindly post the relevant text from that warning letter you mentioned? Only way to see what they are really up to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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