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Not unless some sort of "Marshall Plan 2" growth fund is established :)

@ Midas

I agree with you that the reactions to these events, both from the market and the public, are crucial because they will show the level of trust in the banks.

I expect the latter half of this week to be ugly as it will be very difficult to keep cash in the Cypriot banks after they are reopened. Cyprus is really the only country whose collapse may still result in an intact Euro Zone...

But it all depends on "trust"; contagion risk hinges on bond yields;

the real danger is if a Cypriot bank collapse triggers unsustainably high bond yields in Italy, Spain, Portugal

Midas I absolutely disagree with you that who writes the article doesn't matter. When you read it, you are affected, both on a conscious and subconscious level, by not only the content of the article, but also the style, structure, phrasing, headline, arrangement of paragraphs, etc etc. It is so much that reading the same story by two different writers can very often lead to two, very different conclusions. You say Yoshi sticks his/her head in the ground, but you are doing the same thing by not caring who writes the articles you read. Garbage in - Garbage out

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Putin brands Cyprus saving levy as ‘unfair’
Published time: March 18, 2013 09:40
Edited time: March 18, 2013 12:36
The Russian leadership has lashed out at Cyprus’ plan to tax bank deposits. President Vladimir Putin called the initiative ‘unfair’, while Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev drew comparisons with illegal forfeit.
...
At the end of 2012, Russian companies had an estimated $19 billion in deposits with Cypriot banks, according to Moody's. This makes up 25% of all deposits on the island, while 70% are held by the citizens of the European Union and the United Kingdom.

Well at least we know where Abrahamovich et al have stuck some of his retirement plan....

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kblaze: But it all depends on "trust"; contagion risk hinges on bond yields; the real danger is if a Cypriot bank collapse triggers unsustainably high bond yields in Italy, Spain, Portugal...

the contagion risk is not limited to €Urope. it's a well known fact that investors are shitting in their pants on a global scale if the proverbial bag of rice topples in warehouse located in Northern Manchuria. shooting from the hip, i expect quite some trouble for the markets also in Asia once the results of the latest "agreement" are published.

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kblaze: But it all depends on "trust"; contagion risk hinges on bond yields; the real danger is if a Cypriot bank collapse triggers unsustainably high bond yields in Italy, Spain, Portugal...

the contagion risk is not limited to €Urope. it's a well known fact that investors are shitting in their pants on a global scale if the proverbial bag of rice topples in warehouse located in Northern Manchuria. shooting from the hip, i expect quite some trouble for the markets also in Asia once the results of the latest "agreement" are published.

well, we have more than a single Cypriot bank collapsing based on what was hammered out last night and the negative details are still pouring in bit by bit. but the markets are all "green".

i am quite surprised and wonder whether Midas is planning to beat up his wife ermm.gif

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^^

Well all you would have to see is "Infowars" and "Paul Joseph Watson" to know the article is rubbish. The "Watson" character is fearmongerer Alex Jones' right-hand man and has a keen penchant for selectively choosing quotes and twisting meanings.

If someone with real power/influence truly said we need to loot 15% of Italian savings we would see an instant bank run Euro-wide. Sry, but it aint gonna happen like that.

Quite frankly I wouldn't care if Donald Duck wrote the article. I am much more concerned about the impact of these moves.

Never mind I will wait for Yoshiwara to try to justify the next confiscation when it happens.

Meanwhile if you have a business in Spain or Italy or Greece it would be very risky to keep significant money in the bank knowing you could lose everything above 100,000 euros.

As Yogi Bear quite correctly said earlier " the central question is does the average Euro depositor trust his bank any more? Fail that test and it's all over in Europe, the US, and maybe all over.

The only strength a bank offers is trust. If the bank guarantees my deposit is going to shrink whenever they are in the mood to do so, the bank has little to offer."

That much is clear.

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Meanwhile, Bangkok's wide boy carpet baggers, who until recently were selling financial products based in Cypress, have gone awfully quiet.

So at least some good has come of this.

Cypress is a tree GH. Cyprus/Κύπρος (in other languages Chypre, Zypern, Chipre, Kibros, Kibris) is an island located in the mediterranean sea.

Thanks for correcting my spelling.

Though my observation was right. The EU has put the naughty island back in the box.

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well, we have more than a single Cypriot bank collapsing based on what was hammered out last night and the negative details are still pouring in bit by bit. but the markets are all "green".

Sometimes I get the feeling the markets are a poor indicator these

days. The normal investors have mostly left & any remaining are dancing

very near to or in & out of the door.

I think the market is now run by those that make it indicate what

they need it to indicate to convince the masses everything is rosy.

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If, and in whatever form, Cyprus banks re-open, you can bet your bippy that there will be heavy restrictions on withdrawals to thwart a run.

I am very happy to have cash in the US, always remembering that there is a gulf which separates the private from the public sectors. The US has already crashed and flushed out a lot of crap. Banks were either bailed out, bought out, closed with their assets sold to more solvent bank and liabilities eaten by the government...

US banks and other corporations are awash in cash. Banks aren't lending except "safe" loans for cars etc., and you'd need to have the best of credit and at least 20% down to buy a house now. That house has had a lot of surplus value flushed out of it and is priced below replacement cost.

I'm not saying the USD is safe. I'm just really bearish on Europe and Asia.

I'm not trying to start a debate. I'm not a seer. It's just by gut feeling based on what I see and read.

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The Russians and others took all the money out the back door... no money remaining in the Cyprus banks to speak of...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-25/have-russians-already-quietly-withdrawn-all-their-cash-cyprus

While ordinary Cypriots queued at ATM machines to withdraw a few hundred euros as credit card transactions stopped, other depositors used an array of techniques to access their money.

No one knows exactly how much money has left Cyprus' banks, or where

it has gone. The two banks at the centre of the crisis - Cyprus Popular

Bank, also known as Laiki, and Bank of Cyprus - have units in London which remained open throughout the week and placed no limits on withdrawals. Bank of Cyprus also owns 80 percent of Russia's Uniastrum Bank, which put no restrictions on withdrawals in Russia. Russians were among Cypriot banks' largest depositors.

So while one could not withdraw from Bank of Cyprus or Laiki, one

could withdraw without limitations from subsidiary and OpCo banks, and

other affiliates?

Just brilliant.

not "just brilliant" but just the usual bullshit from "nullhedge"! i am banking with two multinational Swiss banks in Singapore, both having subsidiaries and branches worldwide. if i turned up hungry at their headquarters in Switzerland or at any of their branches in need of CHF10 for a sandwich or a burger they'd either laugh at me or ask me politely to wait for the white-dressed men who will soon arrive and wrap me in jacket with long tassels.

edited for addendum: in the unlikely event that the banking hours in Switzerland match Singpore banking hours (because of 7 hours time difference) one might accomodate me after verifying by phone that i have a portfolio in SG and arrange a "flash transfer" for an appropriate amount.

Edited by Naam
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The Russians and others took all the money out the back door... no money remaining in the Cyprus banks to speak of...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-25/have-russians-already-quietly-withdrawn-all-their-cash-cyprus

>

While ordinary Cypriots queued at ATM machines to withdraw a few hundred euros as credit card transactions stopped, other depositors used an array of techniques to access their money.

No one knows exactly how much money has left Cyprus' banks, or where

it has gone. The two banks at the centre of the crisis - Cyprus Popular

Bank, also known as Laiki, and Bank of Cyprus - have units in London which remained open throughout the week and placed no limits on withdrawals. Bank of Cyprus also owns 80 percent of Russia's Uniastrum Bank, which put no restrictions on withdrawals in Russia. Russians were among Cypriot banks' largest depositors.

So while one could not withdraw from Bank of Cyprus or Laiki, one

could withdraw without limitations from subsidiary and OpCo banks, and

other affiliates?

Just brilliant.

not "just brilliant" but just the usual bullshit from "nullhedge"! i am banking with two multinational Swiss banks in Singapore, both having subsidiaries and branches worldwide. if i turned up hungry at their headquarters in Switzerland or at any of their branches in need of CHF10 for a sandwich or a burger they'd either laugh at me or ask me politely to wait for the white-dressed men who will soon arrive and wrap me in jacket with long tassels.

I'm with you, but it's actually quoting a Reuter's article. Breaking news is often wrong. Link

I don't know if this is in anyway related, it's just the timing that's curious. Link

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The Russians and others took all the money out the back door... no money remaining in the Cyprus banks to speak of...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-25/have-russians-already-quietly-withdrawn-all-their-cash-cyprus

>

While ordinary Cypriots queued at ATM machines to withdraw a few hundred euros as credit card transactions stopped, other depositors used an array of techniques to access their money.

No one knows exactly how much money has left Cyprus' banks, or where

it has gone. The two banks at the centre of the crisis - Cyprus Popular

Bank, also known as Laiki, and Bank of Cyprus - have units in London which remained open throughout the week and placed no limits on withdrawals. Bank of Cyprus also owns 80 percent of Russia's Uniastrum Bank, which put no restrictions on withdrawals in Russia. Russians were among Cypriot banks' largest depositors.

So while one could not withdraw from Bank of Cyprus or Laiki, one

could withdraw without limitations from subsidiary and OpCo banks, and

other affiliates?

Just brilliant.

strong>

not "just brilliant" but just the usual bullshit from "nullhedge"! i am banking with two multinational Swiss banks in Singapore, both having subsidiaries and branches worldwide. if i turned up hungry at their headquarters in Switzerland or at any of their branches in need of CHF10 for a sandwich or a burger they'd either laugh at me or ask me politely to wait for the white-dressed men who will soon arrive and wrap me in jacket with long tassels.

I'm with you, but it's actually quoting a Reuter's article. Breaking news is often wrong. Link

I don't know if this is in anyway related, it's just the timing that's curious. Link

if so-called or wannabe experts quote rubbish i blame them for quoting rubbish.

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One thing that could happen, although I'm not predicting it, is for Russia itself to step in as the bailout entity. It has a lot more to lose than the Eurozone because Cyprus owes Russia 2 or 3 billion in long term loans, and some influential Russian billionaires are the heavy depositors.

Wealth is power. I wonder if it's enough power in Russia to convince Putin et al to do the bailout. Russia can afford that for sure.

Again, I'm not predicting, just musing.

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I continue to believe that none of this was really about Cyprus at all. I maintain that this is a smack to the back of Putin's head for his efforts to nationalize Russia's central bank and to run all foreign bankers out of mother Russia. The big players do not like the little people of whom Putin is included, playing with their right to control the money of all nations. Hitler tried this in 1933 and got away with it for a few years. He doubled the GNP in 5 years. Putin knows that fiat currency will kill his economy and is taking steps as quietly as he can to protect Russia. It is refreshing to know that there are a few left in the world who are willing to take on this losing fight. Perhaps the time has come for the other players to take up the fight along with Russia and nationalize their banks. There may actually be a positive outcome yet. The first step in the problem solving process is to identify the problem and this is a good start.

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If, and in whatever form, Cyprus banks re-open, you can bet your bippy that there will be heavy restrictions on withdrawals to thwart a run.

I am very happy to have cash in the US, always remembering that there is a gulf which separates the private from the public sectors. The US has already crashed and flushed out a lot of crap. Banks were either bailed out, bought out, closed with their assets sold to more solvent bank and liabilities eaten by the government...

US banks and other corporations are awash in cash. Banks aren't lending except "safe" loans for cars etc., and you'd need to have the best of credit and at least 20% down to buy a house now. That house has had a lot of surplus value flushed out of it and is priced below replacement cost.

You realize that the banks are in the US are "flush with cash" because the Federal reserve creates sometime like $85Billion per month out of thin air, and gives it to them? "quantitative easing"

RE: Cyprus looks like the banks are going to be closed at least until Thursday...postponed again

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If, and in whatever form, Cyprus banks re-open, you can bet your bippy that there will be heavy restrictions on withdrawals to thwart a run.

I am very happy to have cash in the US, always remembering that there is a gulf which separates the private from the public sectors. The US has already crashed and flushed out a lot of crap. Banks were either bailed out, bought out, closed with their assets sold to more solvent bank and liabilities eaten by the government...

US banks and other corporations are awash in cash. Banks aren't lending except "safe" loans for cars etc., and you'd need to have the best of credit and at least 20% down to buy a house now. That house has had a lot of surplus value flushed out of it and is priced below replacement cost.

You realize that the banks are in the US are "flush with cash" because the Federal reserve creates sometime like $85Billion per month out of thin air, and gives it to them? "quantitative easing"

RE: Cyprus looks like the banks are going to be closed at least until Thursday...postponed again

That's not exactly how it works. The fed creates the money, and the banks can borrow it at a low interest rate to increase deposits. It then becomes a liability to the bank. That's called getting money at the fed window.

Banks are awash in cash because companies won't spend it, and banks won't lend it. Everyone is afraid to make a move. Corporations are awash in cash. Many of them paid big stock dividends just before year end in case the tax rate increased on Jan. 1. US companies are very profitable right now. Normally they would be expanding and hiring and buying equipment but they aren't. Everyone is afraid of an uncertain future. No one knows what tax rates will do, or what affect Obamacare will have. No one knows for sure where the real estate market or for that matter the economy is going. No one knows what the fed will do with interest rates.

But look at the numbers for corporate profits and bank loan to deposit ratios, and corporate cash on hand (in banks.)

Edited by NeverSure
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If, and in whatever form, Cyprus banks re-open, you can bet your bippy that there will be heavy restrictions on withdrawals to thwart a run.

I am very happy to have cash in the US, always remembering that there is a gulf which separates the private from the public sectors. The US has already crashed and flushed out a lot of crap. Banks were either bailed out, bought out, closed with their assets sold to more solvent bank and liabilities eaten by the government...

US banks and other corporations are awash in cash. Banks aren't lending except "safe" loans for cars etc., and you'd need to have the best of credit and at least 20% down to buy a house now. That house has had a lot of surplus value flushed out of it and is priced below replacement cost.

You realize that the banks are in the US are "flush with cash" because the Federal reserve creates sometime like $85Billion per month out of thin air, and gives it to them? "quantitative easing"

RE: Cyprus looks like the banks are going to be closed at least until Thursday...postponed again

That's not exactly how it works. The fed creates the money, and the banks can borrow it at a low interest rate to increase deposits. It then becomes a liability to the bank. That's called getting money at the fed window.

Banks are awash in cash because companies won't spend it, and banks won't lend it. Everyone is afraid to make a move. Corporations are awash in cash. Many of them paid big stock dividends just before year end in case the tax rate increased on Jan. 1. US companies are very profitable right now. Normally they would be expanding and hiring and buying equipment but they aren't. Everyone is afraid of an uncertain future. No one knows what tax rates will do, or what affect Obamacare will have. No one knows for sure where the real estate market or for that matter the economy is going. No one knows what the fed will do with interest rates.

But look at the numbers for corporate profits and bank loan to deposit ratios, and corporate cash on hand (in banks.)

NeverSure, I have no idea what you are talking about.

Do you?

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Banks are awash in cash because companies won't spend it, and banks won't lend it. Everyone is afraid to make a move. Corporations are awash in cash. Many of them paid big stock dividends just before year end in case the tax rate increased on Jan. 1. US companies are very profitable right now. Normally they would be expanding and hiring and buying equipment but they aren't. Everyone is afraid of an uncertain future. No one knows what tax rates will do, or what affect Obamacare will have. No one knows for sure where the real estate market or for that matter the economy is going. No one knows what the fed will do with interest rates.

But look at the numbers for corporate profits and bank loan to deposit ratios, and corporate cash on hand (in banks.)

NeverSure, I have no idea what you are talking about.

Do you?

I think so. I began life as a banker, including a bank auditor, a loan officer and a branch manager. I traveled for 2 years auditing branches for a bank that had 120 branches. Yes, I had some clue what I was saying. thumbsup.gif

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Banks are awash in cash because companies won't spend it, and banks won't lend it. Everyone is afraid to make a move. Corporations are awash in cash. Many of them paid big stock dividends just before year end in case the tax rate increased on Jan. 1. US companies are very profitable right now. Normally they would be expanding and hiring and buying equipment but they aren't. Everyone is afraid of an uncertain future. No one knows what tax rates will do, or what affect Obamacare will have. No one knows for sure where the real estate market or for that matter the economy is going. No one knows what the fed will do with interest rates.

But look at the numbers for corporate profits and bank loan to deposit ratios, and corporate cash on hand (in banks.)

NeverSure, I have no idea what you are talking about.

Do you?

I think so. I began life as a banker, including a bank auditor, a loan officer and a branch manager. I traveled for 2 years auditing branches for a bank that had 120 branches. Yes, I had some clue what I was saying. thumbsup.gif

You have confirmed that my opinion on bankers is not prejudice, but fact.

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If, and in whatever form, Cyprus banks re-open, you can bet your bippy that there will be heavy restrictions on withdrawals to thwart a run.

I am very happy to have cash in the US, always remembering that there is a gulf which separates the private from the public sectors. The US has already crashed and flushed out a lot of crap. Banks were either bailed out, bought out, closed with their assets sold to more solvent bank and liabilities eaten by the government...

US banks and other corporations are awash in cash. Banks aren't lending except "safe" loans for cars etc., and you'd need to have the best of credit and at least 20% down to buy a house now. That house has had a lot of surplus value flushed out of it and is priced below replacement cost.

You realize that the banks are in the US are "flush with cash" because the Federal reserve creates sometime like $85Billion per month out of thin air, and gives it to them? "quantitative easing"

RE: Cyprus looks like the banks are going to be closed at least until Thursday...postponed again

That's not exactly how it works. The fed creates the money, and the banks can borrow it at a low interest rate to increase deposits. It then becomes a liability to the bank. That's called getting money at the fed window.

Banks are awash in cash because companies won't spend it, and banks won't lend it. Everyone is afraid to make a move. Corporations are awash in cash. Many of them paid big stock dividends just before year end in case the tax rate increased on Jan. 1. US companies are very profitable right now. Normally they would be expanding and hiring and buying equipment but they aren't. Everyone is afraid of an uncertain future. No one knows what tax rates will do, or what affect Obamacare will have. No one knows for sure where the real estate market or for that matter the economy is going. No one knows what the fed will do with interest rates.

But look at the numbers for corporate profits and bank loan to deposit ratios, and corporate cash on hand (in banks.)

What you are describing is the normal monetary policy, whereby the Fed prints money and then sets the Prime rate (interest rate at which it will lend that money to other banks).

Reducing the prime interest rate will make more people borrow money, however also increases inflation as there is more money available. However what happens when the rate is zero or also zero and you still need to increase spending/growth?

Enter "quantitative easing", which is where you start "creating" (i don't say printed as the money is never actually minted or printed) and buy financial assets (bonds, mortgages etc..)

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I continue to believe that none of this was really about Cyprus at all. I maintain that this is a smack to the back of Putin's head for his efforts to nationalize Russia's central bank and to run all foreign bankers out of mother Russia. The big players do not like the little people of whom Putin is included, playing with their right to control the money of all nations. Hitler tried this in 1933 and got away with it for a few years. He doubled the GNP in 5 years. Putin knows that fiat currency will kill his economy and is taking steps as quietly as he can to protect Russia. It is refreshing to know that there are a few left in the world who are willing to take on this losing fight. Perhaps the time has come for the other players to take up the fight along with Russia and nationalize their banks. There may actually be a positive outcome yet. The first step in the problem solving process is to identify the problem and this is a good start.

What a load of fantastical nonsense.

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You have confirmed that my opinion on bankers is not prejudice, but fact.

Well, because you said you had no idea what I was talking about, and I believe it, we won't take your opinion too seriously. coffee1.gif

Could it be that you were simply saying that we do not know the future?

Could it be that you were simply saying that presently nobody (consumers, bussinesses, governments) wants to borrow money, which is bad for economic growth?

Could it be that you were making simple things complicated to impress other posters?

Could it be that you were simply saying that we do not know the future?

Could it be that you were simply saying that presently nobody (consumers, bussinesses, governments) wants to borrow money, which is bad for economic growth?

Could it be that you were making simple things complicated to impress other posters?

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You have confirmed that my opinion on bankers is not prejudice, but fact.

Well, because you said you had no idea what I was talking about, and I believe it, we won't take your opinion too seriously. coffee1.gif

Could it be that you were simply saying that we do not know the future?

Could it be that you were simply saying that presently nobody (consumers, bussinesses, governments) wants to borrow money, which is bad for economic growth?

Could it be that you were making simple things complicated to impress other posters?

Could it be that you were simply saying that we do not know the future?

Could it be that you were simply saying that presently nobody (consumers, bussinesses, governments) wants to borrow money, which is bad for economic growth?

Could it be that you were making simple things complicated to impress other posters?

Yes I believe we don't know the future, of course.

No I didn't make things complicated at all. In fact I dumbed it down by using the example of the rule of double.

Yes I said that few want to borrow or spend money, and that this doesn't help the economy because it doesn't stimulate any growth.

I didn't say any of it to impress, I said it to explain. If it's too complicated, there are other threads to read.

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26 March 2013 Last updated at 14:52 GMT
Cyprus to bring in weekly cash curbs

Cyprus finance ministers are planning to impose a weekly limit on cash withdrawals, the BBC has learned.

The country's draft capital controls include export limits on euros and a ban on cashing cheques, says Newsnight economics editor Paul Mason.

In addition, fixed-term deposits will have to be held until maturity.

Cyprus's finance minister earlier confirmed that depositors with more than 100,000 euros could see 40% of their funds converted into bank shares.

Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21936554

bbclogo.jpg
-- BBC 2013-03-26

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NEW: Bank of Cyprus head resigns
Published on March 26, 2013

The Chairman of the Board of Directors of the Bank of Cyprus (BOC), Andreas Artemi, has handed in his resignation earlier today.

It is believed that the reasons for his resignation concern his disapproval of the decision to sell off the Bank’s branches in Greece as well as €9.2 billion (ELA) that the BOC will be burdened with as a result of the restructuring of the banking sector.

Source: http://www.cyprus-mail.com/artemi/new-bank-cyprus-head-resigns/20130326

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26 March 2013 Last updated at 16:26 GMT
George Osborne criticises handling of Cyprus bailout

George Osborne has criticised the handling of the Cyprus crisis by European and Cypriot authorities.

The UK chancellor told the Treasury Committee that initial plans to impose a levy on bank deposits was a "mistake" and had "not been well handled".


Mr Osborne also revealed the government was in talks with Cypriot authorities to find a "British solution" regarding branches of Laiki Bank in the UK.

Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21936366

bbclogo.jpg
-- BBC 2013-03-26

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26 March 2013 Last updated at 06:49 GMT
Q&A: Cyprus deal

Cyprus has agreed a deal with the European Union and the International Monetary Fund (IMF) to secure a 10bn euro bailout. It came just hours before a deadline set by the European Central Bank (ECB), and after a week of uncertainty about the future of Cyprus in the eurozone.

What has been agreed?

Cyprus has agreed to a significant restructuring of its banking sector, along with other measures such as tax rises and privatisations. The measures are designed to raise billions towards the bailout, but protect bank customers with deposits of 100,000 euros or less.

Cyprus's second largest bank - Laiki Bank - will be closed down and deposits above 100,000 euros moved into a "bad bank". Deposits below 100,000 euros will be moved into Bank of Cyprus, the country's biggest bank, which is being significantly restructured.

Cyprus's second largest bank - Laiki Bank - will be closed down and deposits above 100,000 euros moved into a "bad bank". Deposits below 100,000 euros will be moved into Bank of Cyprus, the country's biggest bank, which is being significantly restructured.

Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21922110

bbclogo.jpg
-- BBC 2013-03-26

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So we see the ripples; other countries are prepared to implement capital controls also in response to this and presumably a bigger country would see greater effects. This being how freeze and collapse of the system begins:

"""Russias Central Bank is closely watching the activities in Uniastrum Bank, a Russian subsidiary of the Bank of Cyprus and is ready to impose sanctions on transactions, if it starts sending funds to its Cypriot parent.

The Bank of Cyprus holds 80% stake in Russias Uniastrum Bank and its possible the later may provide financial assistance to its parent, Izvestiya daily reported on Tuesday, citing an anonymous source at Russias Central Bank.

At present the Bank of Russia is scrutinizing Uniastrum Banks actions and so far the situation doesnt cause any concern. But if the bank gets caught pulling out capital, supervisory authorities will impose restriction on transactions. An attempt to contribute to the improvement of liquidity there may badly affect the liquidity here."""

-RT app

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