Are Forum Members Sometimes Too Critical Of Writing?

[wilko]

My word, what an anal thread.

I can't be arsed to proof read my posts for spelling and grammatical errors just so you bunch of amateur school teachers can give me a pat on the back and a grade A. This isn't school, it's not a test, it's certainly not important, so get a life.

There, I've said it now....

totster

Nearly 6000 postings on this site and you're telling other people to get a life?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

[AmeriThai]

Spelling and grammatical errors don't bother me if the idea still comes across. Long posts with no paragraphs, no periods, and all letters in lowercase, are rather difficult to read though.

[Totster]

My word, what an anal thread.

I can't be arsed to proof read my posts for spelling and grammatical errors just so you bunch of amateur school teachers can give me a pat on the back and a grade A. This isn't school, it's not a test, it's certainly not important, so get a life.

There, I've said it now....

totster

Nearly 6000 postings on this site and you're telling other people to get a life?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Hmm.. maybe I have spent too much time on here at some points... however.. my life isn't so mundane that I get worked up because some poster's spelling and grammar isn't 100% correct.

totster

[ray23]

Wow, did I open a can of worms or what

Maybe everyone was stuck inside yesterday with the heat and nothing much else to do.

Ok someone want to tell us uninformed what the rules for to and too Are?

Then please enlighten us as to your and you're?

Truth is that most of us are not involved in teaching english, I'm not a professional english teacher. If I were, I would attend at the very minimum a TEFL course.

There maybe some truth in us changing our language to be understood by some of the Thai's. When my wife and I speak it's half and half, English and Thia. But we communicate and that is the true purpose of speaking to eachother. That being said I would much rather be understood by my Thai neighbors then all the english majors in the world. I don't live in the states anymore I live in Thialand. That is enough of a challenge for a old retired guy

[udon]

It doesn't worry me too much, typong and spellung errors are a fact of life on fora like this one

BUT

Incorrect use of "two, to and too", "there, their and they're" and "weather and whether" REALLY grate

The above obviously applies to native English speakers, it is usually apparent when the poster is not a native speaker and allowances can be made.

OK, gripe over

Americans are NOT native English speakers........

[Totster]

It doesn't worry me too much, typong and spellung errors are a fact of life on fora like this one

BUT

Incorrect use of "two, to and too", "there, their and they're" and "weather and whether" REALLY grate

The above obviously applies to native English speakers, it is usually apparent when the poster is not a native speaker and allowances can be made.

OK, gripe over

Americans are NOT native English speakers........

totster

[Tywais]

It doesn't worry me too much, typong and spellung errors are a fact of life on fora like this one

BUT

Incorrect use of "two, to and too", "there, their and they're" and "weather and whether" REALLY grate

The above obviously applies to native English speakers, it is usually apparent when the poster is not a native speaker and allowances can be made.

OK, gripe over

Americans are NOT native English speakers........

Thank goodness! Or else we would be trying to put our boots on our private areas.

[ray23]

It doesn't worry me too much, typong and spellung errors are a fact of life on fora like this one

BUT

Incorrect use of "two, to and too", "there, their and they're" and "weather and whether" REALLY grate

The above obviously applies to native English speakers, it is usually apparent when the poster is not a native speaker and allowances can be made.

OK, gripe over

Americans are NOT native English speakers........

Now someone has finally seen the light Thank You Udon

But never forget it's the Brits are at fault they lets us get away with it

[PeaceBlondie]

The only time the use of embarrassingly poor grammar and erroneous spelling irritates me is when the author is writing in his native language and claims to be an English teacher...

That's a great point. Even on our Teaching in Thailand forum, we English teachers usually only slag off a poor speller or bad user of grammar when they're sounding high and mighty about being a teacher of English. It's the same on other forums heavily populated by EFL teachers: if they're obviously just playing around regarding other subjects, that's fine. But if they're discussing their teaching here and there, they'd better spell right and use good sentence structure.

The sentence used as an example, "I heard that you're going to Madrid..." has two problems with Brits, and was probably written by an American. "I heard" is the simple past tense, and Brits were strictly taught to use the present perfect tense much of the time, as in "I have heard that.." Also, Brits are taught a strict difference between "You are going" or "You will be going" or even "You shall be going." Americans make no such distinction, and communicate very well among themselves as to certainty in that regard. But pedantic British teachers go berserk when the certainty/uncertainty issue isn't made clear.

We're here to enjoy each other's comments. None of us is being paid to be a professional proofreader on ThaiVisa.com. At least, I ain't. One smilie, no more. And now, to run the preview.

[Morden]

It doesn't worry me too much, typong and spellung errors are a fact of life on fora like this one

BUT

Incorrect use of "two, to and too", "there, their and they're" and "weather and whether" REALLY grate

The above obviously applies to native English speakers, it is usually apparent when the poster is not a native speaker and allowances can be made.

OK, gripe over

Americans are NOT native English speakers........

Now someone has finally seen the light Thank You Udon

But never forget it's the Brits are at fault they lets us get away with it

Our worst mistake was to leave you to run your own country. Look how that turned out!

[Totster]

It doesn't worry me too much, typong and spellung errors are a fact of life on fora like this one

BUT

Incorrect use of "two, to and too", "there, their and they're" and "weather and whether" REALLY grate

The above obviously applies to native English speakers, it is usually apparent when the poster is not a native speaker and allowances can be made.

OK, gripe over

Americans are NOT native English speakers........

Now someone has finally seen the light Thank You Udon

But never forget it's the Brits are at fault they lets us get away with it

Our worst mistake was to leave you to run your own country. Look how that turned out!

5555555555 fantastic reply..

totster

[ray23]

See no one is perfect, you guys could have stopped all this

[Totster]

Stopped all what Ray ?

totster

[ray23]

Stopped all what Ray ?

totster

Lets not get to serious here it was just a joke and nothing more. So how about Mc' Donalds hamburgers

[Thomas_Merton]

The only time the use of embarrassingly poor grammar and erroneous spelling irritates me is when the author is writing in his native language and claims to be an English teacher...

That's a great point. Even on our Teaching in Thailand forum, we English teachers usually only slag off a poor speller or bad user of grammar when they're sounding high and mighty about being a teacher of English. It's the same on other forums heavily populated by EFL teachers: if they're obviously just playing around regarding other subjects, that's fine. But if they're discussing their teaching here and there, they'd better spell right and use good sentence structure.

The sentence used as an example, "I heard that you're going to Madrid..." has two problems with Brits, and was probably written by an American. "I heard" is the simple past tense, and Brits were strictly taught to use the present perfect tense much of the time, as in "I have heard that.." Also, Brits are taught a strict difference between "You are going" or "You will be going" or even "You shall be going." Americans make no such distinction, and communicate very well among themselves as to certainty in that regard. But pedantic British teachers go berserk when the certainty/uncertainty issue isn't made clear.

We're here to enjoy each other's comments. None of us is being paid to be a professional proofreader on ThaiVisa.com. At least, I ain't. One smilie, no more. And now, to run the preview.

I am reminded of the great Irish playwright, George Bernard Shaw (a very strong advocate of English spelling reform) who was the author of (amongst many other sensible, and often very witty, remarks and plays):

"He who can, does. He who cannot, teaches"

"England and America are two countries divided by a common language"

IMHO, the English language is in drastic need of a major reform in its spelling.

If, for no other reasons, than those given below:

Functional illiteracy has been reported as high as 20% in the UK compared with 10% in Germany and 8% in Sweden. Professor Seymour referring to the findings of the EU project "Learning Disorders as a barrier to human development" children need 2 and a half to 3 years to gain the same level of literacy that children acquire in a year learning most other languages. (Masha Bell: Understanding English Spelling p 115). This difference is attributed to the exceptional level of irregularities in English spelling.

[Totster]

The only time the use of embarrassingly poor grammar and erroneous spelling irritates me is when the author is writing in his native language and claims to be an English teacher...

That's a great point. Even on our Teaching in Thailand forum, we English teachers usually only slag off a poor speller or bad user of grammar when they're sounding high and mighty about being a teacher of English. It's the same on other forums heavily populated by EFL teachers: if they're obviously just playing around regarding other subjects, that's fine. But if they're discussing their teaching here and there, they'd better spell right and use good sentence structure.

The sentence used as an example, "I heard that you're going to Madrid..." has two problems with Brits, and was probably written by an American. "I heard" is the simple past tense, and Brits were strictly taught to use the present perfect tense much of the time, as in "I have heard that.." Also, Brits are taught a strict difference between "You are going" or "You will be going" or even "You shall be going." Americans make no such distinction, and communicate very well among themselves as to certainty in that regard. But pedantic British teachers go berserk when the certainty/uncertainty issue isn't made clear.

We're here to enjoy each other's comments. None of us is being paid to be a professional proofreader on ThaiVisa.com. At least, I ain't. One smilie, no more. And now, to run the preview.

I am reminded of the great Irish playwright, George Bernard Shaw (a very strong advocate of English spelling reform) who was the author of (amongst many other sensible, and often very witty, remarks and plays):

"He who can, does. He who cannot, teaches"

"England and America are two countries divided by a common language"

IMHO, the English language is in drastic need of a major reform in its spelling.

If, for no other reasons, than those given below:

Functional illiteracy has been reported as high as 20% in the UK compared with 10% in Germany and 8% in Sweden. Professor Seymour referring to the findings of the EU project "Learning Disorders as a barrier to human development" children need 2 and a half to 3 years to gain the same level of literacy that children acquire in a year learning most other languages. (Masha Bell: Understanding English Spelling p 115). This difference is attributed to the exceptional level of irregularities in English spelling.

Any language should not be reformed.. it has it's own characteristics which is taught to everyone.. reforming could mean changing the grammar and spelling rules, which IMHO undermines the language.. now come on TM, you are more clever than that, and you are just posting again to get a reaction..

totster

[Thomas_Merton]

The only time the use of embarrassingly poor grammar and erroneous spelling irritates me is when the author is writing in his native language and claims to be an English teacher...

That's a great point. Even on our Teaching in Thailand forum, we English teachers usually only slag off a poor speller or bad user of grammar when they're sounding high and mighty about being a teacher of English. It's the same on other forums heavily populated by EFL teachers: if they're obviously just playing around regarding other subjects, that's fine. But if they're discussing their teaching here and there, they'd better spell right and use good sentence structure.

The sentence used as an example, "I heard that you're going to Madrid..." has two problems with Brits, and was probably written by an American. "I heard" is the simple past tense, and Brits were strictly taught to use the present perfect tense much of the time, as in "I have heard that.." Also, Brits are taught a strict difference between "You are going" or "You will be going" or even "You shall be going." Americans make no such distinction, and communicate very well among themselves as to certainty in that regard. But pedantic British teachers go berserk when the certainty/uncertainty issue isn't made clear.

We're here to enjoy each other's comments. None of us is being paid to be a professional proofreader on ThaiVisa.com. At least, I ain't. One smilie, no more. And now, to run the preview.

I am reminded of the great Irish playwright, George Bernard Shaw (a very strong advocate of English spelling reform) who was the author of (amongst many other sensible, and often very witty, remarks and plays):

"He who can, does. He who cannot, teaches"

"England and America are two countries divided by a common language"

IMHO, the English language is in drastic need of a major reform in its spelling.

If, for no other reasons, than those given below:

Functional illiteracy has been reported as high as 20% in the UK compared with 10% in Germany and 8% in Sweden. Professor Seymour referring to the findings of the EU project "Learning Disorders as a barrier to human development" children need 2 and a half to 3 years to gain the same level of literacy that children acquire in a year learning most other languages. (Masha Bell: Understanding English Spelling p 115). This difference is attributed to the exceptional level of irregularities in English spelling.

Any language should not be reformed.. it has it's own characteristics which is taught to everyone.. reforming could mean changing the grammar and spelling rules, which IMHO undermines the language..

totster

The great beauty of the English language is that it is dynamic. There is no authority for what is correct or incorrect in English. Many try to impose authorities, such as the Oxford English Dictionary or other tomes on grammar and usage, but the plain fact is that the only determinant of correct English is its usage.

This is unlike other languages such as Danish or French for example; those have government sponsored agencies to monitor and determine what is correct.

As a little, red herring:

now come on TM, you are more clever than that, and you are just posting again to get a reaction..

Why should anyone post on Thaivisa and not expect a reaction?

To do otherwise, reduces the forum to the status of a toilet wall.

Even though, often remarks written there, display more awareness than the sentence quoted above.

[phibunmike]

Would've thought the correct sentence to be " I have heard that you're going to Madrid in May"

or " I hear that you're going to Madrid in May". English ain't my native language so maybe somebody can explain.

Well, in day to day use they are quite interchangeable. But to be precise:

"I have heard that you're going to Madrid in May" means that your heard this at some time in the past.

"I heard that you're going to Madrid in May" is the same, but simple past tense- I am not an English teacher so don't know the specific terminology. This difference is more important in French than English, I think.

"I hear that you're going to Madrid in May" implies an on-going situation, where you keep hearing it - obviously all instances of hearing it are in the past but you consider it to be a continuing action.

Crossy>> I agree with your list of annoying mistakes - one that I would add is when people write "should of", "could of" etc., instead of "should have", could have"....

Ok, I think I have proof-read that

Oh, and by the way - who complained about smilies ? As we have no eye-contact in the forum, and cannot here tone of voice, I think they are a useful substitute to indicate when we are being ironic, humorous, etc.

Edited March 12, 2006 by phibunmike

[Morden]

Oh, and by the way - who complained about smilies ? As we have no eye-contact in the forum, and cannot here tone of voice, I think they are a useful substitute to indicate when we are being ironic, humorous, etc.

If you look back I think that you will find the first reference to smilies was mine. I commented on the excessive use of them, not the mere use of them. I agree that they are very useful here when we want to make clear the feelings behind our words. However, some members use them so frequently that I can only imagine that their faces are distorted most painfully when conducting a conversation actually in the presence of others.

[the gent]

Mr. Merton

" Would have " is commonly misspelt in its contracted form as " would of " ( would've )

by legions of younger people in the Uk. That does not denote a dynamism at play but reflects an illiteracy born of indifferent teaching standards. Common usage of a mistake may well determine the vernacular but seldom has any other influence.

True dynamism is not the celebration of solecism but the absorption of influential cultural markers from whichever source, something the fossilised French seem incapable of comprehending.

Is this what you had in mind Udon ?

[Morden]

The great beauty of the English language is that it is dynamic. There is no authority for what is correct or incorrect in English. Many try to impose authorities, such as the Oxford English Dictionary or other tomes on grammar and usage, but the plain fact is that the only determinant of correct English is its usage.

Your first sentence is certainly true, TM. If it were not, the language would still be at a stage of development somewhere before Chaucer's time. I'm not sure that dictionaries and grammar books do more than record the language as it is at any given moment, though.

However, I would not agree that the language should be 'developed' by or for the benefit of the lazy or leary. That would lead only to a degree of simplification that would rob it of its richness and have all of us uttering ambiguous drivel, no doubt laced with 'innit' and swearing, ending each sentence with the intonation of a question. That would be enough for reading a McDonald's menu, perhaps, but not sufficient for communicating more complex thoughts. For goodness sake, who for example would not quake with fear at hearing a world leader saying 'nucular' as he held his hand over the red button!

[udon]

The Gent: Yes..... Thank you.

[phibunmike]

and cannot here tone of voice

oops, I meant "hear"....

[ray23]

and cannot here tone of voice

oops, I meant "hear"....

Knew what you meant the first time

[Stephen Cleary]

Would've thought the correct sentence to be " I have heard that you're going to Madrid in May"

or " I hear that you're going to Madrid in May". English ain't my native language so maybe somebody can explain.

Well, in day to day use they are quite interchangeable. But to be precise:

"I have heard that you're going to Madrid in May" means that your heard this at some time in the past.

"I heard that you're going to Madrid in May" is the same, but simple past tense- I am not an English teacher so don't know the specific terminology. This difference is more important in French than English, I think.

"I hear that you're going to Madrid in May" implies an on-going situation, where you keep hearing it - obviously all instances of hearing it are in the past but you consider it to be a continuing action.

Crossy>> I agree with your list of annoying mistakes - one that I would add is when people write "should of", "could of" etc., instead of "should have", could have"....

Ok, I think I have proof-read that

Oh, and by the way - who complained about smilies ? As we have no eye-contact in the forum, and cannot here tone of voice, I think they are a useful substitute to indicate when we are being ironic, humorous, etc.

"I hear that you......." and "I have heard....." and "I heard......", if you delve into the technicalities of the English language, you will find - are different.

The verb 'hear' (listen) is a state verb and so, is used only in the present simple form and not the continuous ie...'I am hearing that you are going to Madrid in May'.

"I hear you are..." reflects you are currectly hearing (continuous form can be used with state verbs in 'passive voice') from different sources.

"I have heard...." means that you heard (in the past) but haven't stated 'when'.

"I heard..." - in contrast, this tense reflects that the 'listener' knows 'when' you heard it. Or/and is the third or so sentence in the conversation. Example:

A - "Where have you been?"

B - "I have been on vacation."

A - "Really? Where did you go" (past simple vs present perfect)

"You are going to Madrid" this is in present continous form but indicates a 'future plan'.

The present continuous tense is not only used to indicate 'now' or 'these days'

Other examples of continuous forms indicating a future happening include:

"The train is leaving at 16:29"

"So, what are you going to do?"

etc.....

Hope that was of help...........

Edited March 13, 2006 by stevesuphan

[tutsiwarrior]

back off the lot of youse...that bambi woman is mine...

I gots to admit that a lot of the language used on this forum comes across as tiresome pedantry...but, you know ridicule thereof provides a lot in the way of entertainment...

why don't no one denigrate my excessive use of ellipses?...............

Gosh, we are the Chelsea set aren't we?. Or should that be, 'Are we not the Chelsea set'.

(Nothing to do with football chaps).

A large proportion of readers and writers to TV are not native English speakers therefore it is virtually impossible for them to understand the idiom and idiomatic approach to many of the posts on this forum.

For Brits who choose to use not to use their own language properly, but then ask advice on how to obtain the best result on visa application(s) for their fiancees, wives, (note: plural), or girlfriends, perchance should have to undergo a basic literacy check at the Brit Embassy?.

After all - even the Job Centre asks if you need help to fill in the forms.............

What's all this tutsiwarrior stuff anyway?. Do you have any Hutu friends?.

now...where did I put my trusty, rusty machete...

Edited March 13, 2006 by tutsiwarrior

[Godot]

On a different note, how you guys feel about deliberate misspellings? Like “coz” and “wutever”. I personally find it refreshing, provided the writer does it intentionally and consistently. It sort of gives the posts a more personal feel.

Also, the trend (on all internet forums) to use a more conversational style of writing. Like: So I said hey whatup with that? Certainly not the correct grammar or spelling, but in some ways more “correct” in various contexts.

[Maestro]

On a different note, how you guys feel about deliberate misspellings? Like “coz” and “wutever”. I personally find it refreshing, provided the writer does it intentionally and consistently. It sort of gives the posts a more personal feel.

Also, the trend (on all internet forums) to use a more conversational style of writing. Like: So I said hey whatup with that? Certainly not the correct grammar or spelling, but in some ways more “correct” in various contexts.

The only problem I can see with that is that, while some slang expressions are quite international, not all native English speakers, and very few of non-native English speakers, may be able to understand the particular dialect or vernacular used by a particular poster. And if communication is not achieved, the post has obviously failed its purpose.

--------------

Maestro