Leaving Thailand For Good

homeownership · March 25, 2013

OK, I have been hearing a lot of talk amongst my ex-pat friends who are talking about leaving Thailand.

Too expensive

Too many Russians

Prices increasing everyday

So much has changed for the worse in the past 10 years

I hear the same things over and over. Now I hear people saying they are thinking about Cambodia and Burma as being a possible retreat instead of Thailand.

I must admit I thought this was an over-reaction, but everyone I know seems to be saying the same thing (there all British).

I am trying to understand why they want to leave and it comes down to

1. Cheap living

2. Ex-Pat Community

3. Stable country. (More or less)

Cambodia, Laos and Burma all offer these in abundance.

With the Chinese Backed Bullet train coming to Thailand have they dealt a death knell in the heart of the ex-pat, along with cumbersome visa requirements and their penal system which is amongst the harshest in SE Asia, where ex-pats are guilty until they are proven innocent or can pay to be bailed.

Where would you head to next, assuming of course, you could like so many of us can.

soi41 · March 25, 2013

For a young wealthy internet super entrepeneur you have some very poor friends ??

Try for a change to start a topic with something positive to say about Thailand!

Good luck in Cambo, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

homeownership · March 25, 2013

Well if you like I can take the time to register with Thai Visa, verify the email and then just read posts by other people about the same old things.

Occasionally if I can be bothered I can even click on an advert to raise revenue for the site while reading other peoples posts

I can even if I have your permission that is write a politcally, socially correct post about something so inconsequential that no one not even myself can be bothered to read it, while ignoring all of the topics I have raised since being a member.

Yes you might not like content, yes it will provoke an argument, yes they will make you think and yes you will find the need to call me a troll and why, because I am unconventional and I have an opinion and a voice and unlike others I will speak and not be herded.

I wont be offensive to anyone and I will always tell the truth, even it its hard for you to hear.

homeownership · March 25, 2013

For a young wealthy internet super entrepeneur you have some very poor friends ??

Try for a change to start a topic with something positive to say about Thailand!

Good luck in Cambo, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

So let me get this right, in other words your saying "Dont say anything unless its positive".

Dont comment on anything negative about Thailand, dont try to improve the place I call home, dont for that matter even bother to raise an opinion. Is that right ???

David48 · March 25, 2013

... or an alternative would be to ask on other forums to ex-pats who have moved there after living in Thailand and discover the benefits of same.

Asking us here is either appealing to man who finds it difficult to 'up stumps' or people like me who particularly like their lot in Thailand.

Neither answer would be particularly helpful to you.

JLCrab · March 25, 2013

I solved the problem HoOw seems to have encountered in Post #1: I don't have any expat friends so there is not a lot of talk for me to hear.

NanLaew · March 25, 2013

This has been done to death already.

Thailand is changing rapidly, exponentially so. It is a global thing. Deal with it.

Cambodia is 'like Thailand used to be' but if it took Thailand around 30 years to lose all its charm, I would wager the guild will be off the Cambodian Lilly within the next 10 years. Then where to next?

Myanmar has a lot of catching up to do but applying the same exponential rate of questionable improvement that commercial colonialism brings, after Cambodia they will probably be Thailand's outhouse for about 10 years before getting a handle in their own affairs and buggering it up completely all by themselves by say 2030.

There's nothing cumbersome with Thailand's visa system.

Thailand's poor judicial system is predicated on non-existent law enforcement which in turn is mandated by feudal patronage or the culture of relationships or corruption... call it what you will.

Swiss1960 · March 25, 2013

Cheap living, Thailand getting too expensive? From my 7y coming to Thailand, I can't agree with that. Thai food, rental cost (outside major tourist hubs), clothes from Thai markets etc. are still pretty much the same price and the only thing that makes it more expensive is the exchange rate.

Your British expats moaning about the Russians? Yeah, I can see that when the live in Pattaya / Phuket and are bother by non-English speaking people who come to the same pub where they sit from early morning to late evening complaining over their beers and that the beer price did go up...

Cambodia, Laos and Burma being more stable? Yeah...

homeownership · March 25, 2013

Cheap living, Thailand getting too expensive? From my 7y coming to Thailand, I can't agree with that. Thai food, rental cost (outside major tourist hubs), clothes from Thai markets etc. are still pretty much the same price and the only thing that makes it more expensive is the exchange rate.

Your British expats moaning about the Russians? Yeah, I can see that when the live in Pattaya / Phuket and are bother by non-English speaking people who come to the same pub where they sit from early morning to late evening complaining over their beers and that the beer price did go up...

Cambodia, Laos and Burma being more stable? Yeah...

You make some good points, thank you.

patongphil · March 25, 2013

Cheap living, Thailand getting too expensive? From my 7y coming to Thailand, I can't agree with that. Thai food, rental cost (outside major tourist hubs), clothes from Thai markets etc. are still pretty much the same price and the only thing that makes it more expensive is the exchange rate.

Your British expats moaning about the Russians? Yeah, I can see that when the live in Pattaya / Phuket and are bother by non-English speaking people who come to the same pub where they sit from early morning to late evening complaining over their beers and that the beer price did go up...

Cambodia, Laos and Burma being more stable? Yeah...

If you think that prices have not gone up then you sure live in a different world to me. For example my favorite BBQ chicken shop on the outskirts of the closest small town has raised prices from 80 baht to 90 to 100 and then yesterday to 110 baht for a chicken over the last 3 years. This just an example. Ask anyone who has been here a while how the prices of noodle soup etc have also risen dramatically. Percentage wise some very dramatic increases.

JLCrab · March 25, 2013

I started working in PR China about 25 years ago when it was still a poor country. If you want to talk about how a place has changed or 'lost its charm', Thailand's rate of change in no way compares.

oldsailor35 · March 25, 2013

For a young wealthy internet super entrepeneur you have some very poor friends ??

Try for a change to start a topic with something positive to say about Thailand!

Good luck in Cambo, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

You know the old saying "For some there is always greener grass over the fence"..........till one gets there !

Hedghog · March 25, 2013

I will leave for none of the above reasons the OP stated.

I will leave when I am ready,early next year.

Thailand has been an ideal base to travel Asia,without long haul flights.

The visa is not a problem,10 minutes of my time in the office,every 90 days,for my extension.

Back to the Uk for six months to visit my ageing mother,France to visit my brother,then on to the Caribbean.

Thailand has been a very positive experience for me,over the last 6 years,its just time to move on.

Doubt I will be back as I want to keep the memories positive.

Ulysses G. · March 25, 2013

I know very few expats who are talking about leaving if they have a choice in the matter. Is is still easy to live decently here on small amounts of money, but of course more is better.

mrtoad · March 25, 2013

You really are Mr Sunshine - I don't think I have seen one single post, where you have not either been complaining about the Thai Economy, people or about leaving.

I'm not a "if you don't like it go home" poster, but really if it is so bad, as it seems to you then there must be some options.

JLCrab · March 25, 2013

You really are Mr Sunshine - I don't think I have seen one single post, where you have not either been complaining about the Thai Economy, people or about leaving.

I'm not a "if you don't like it go home" poster, but really if it is so bad, as it seems to you then there must be some options.

As they say in the news business, it isn't news when the plane lands safely.

Naam · March 25, 2013

Well if you like I can take the time to register with Thai Visa, verify the email and then just read posts by other people about the same old things.

Occasionally if I can be bothered I can even click on an advert to raise revenue for the site while reading other peoples posts

I can even if I have your permission that is write a politcally, socially correct post about something so inconsequential that no one not even myself can be bothered to read it, while ignoring all of the topics I have raised since being a member.

Yes you might not like content, yes it will provoke an argument, yes they will make you think and yes you will find the need to call me a troll and why, because I am unconventional and I have an opinion and a voice and unlike others I will speak and not be herded.

I wont be offensive to anyone and I will always tell the truth, even it its hard for you to hear.

yeah right! like the truth you wrote about the baby rhino heads mounted as trophies in a shop because their horns are commercially not usable.

somebody who writes rubbish² like must be a truth loving troll

Nautilus05 · March 25, 2013

Then you know if you goto places like Cambodia or Burma, you'll be constantly hearing people complain that they can't get a proper English breakfast, or there's no good pizza shops in town, or it takes the utility company too long to turn the electric back on after a storm, or people don't speak enough English, and so on...

There's just no winning with some people.

Edited March 25, 2013 by Nautilus05

cardholder · March 25, 2013

Then you know if you goto places like Cambodia or Burma, you'll be constantly hearing people complain that they can't get a proper English breakfast, or there's no good pizza shops in town, or it takes the utility company too long to turn the electric back on after a storm, or people don't speak enough English, and so on...

There's just no winning with some people.

Have you ever been to Cambodia ?

Siem Reap offers a choice, and quality, of cuisine (plus a service level, backed by good English language skills) that Thailand couldn't wave a stick at.

Swiss1960 · March 25, 2013

Umm... yes, forex rates do change with the upshot that GLOBALLY things are really more expensive. The price tag may still say 200 baht, same as 7 years ago but IN REAL TERMS, you aren't paying the same price at all. And there's me thinking that the Swiss were a bit cutting-edge when it comes to matters fiscal and all.

So enlighten us to where the boring Swiss in Pattaya / Phuket sit from morning to night, nursing their warm beers, babbling in 'Swiss' and complaining about how things aren't the same as they used to be in Thailand. Then the moaning Brits can drop by and try and cheer you up.

Well, leaving aside what the Swiss financial industry did... Switzerland is closely linked to the EU, whether we like it or not. CHF is linked to the EURO through actions of the Swiss National Bank in order to protect the export industry, whether we like it or not. Thus, I am suffering from the same forex problems as every other European National.

Within Pattaya, I know where they ist from morning to evening... that is the places I do not go, as I have better and more enjoyable things to do than moaning about things I can't change. But if you want to join them, you will find them on beach road, just follow the Swiss flag...

JLCrab · March 25, 2013

I once traveled a bit around Sumatra, Indonesia in the 1990's with a fellow I met on the plane who was from Switzerland. He told everyone, if & when asked, that he was from Liechtenstein.

FunFon · March 25, 2013

Yes the topic has been done to death, in threads that are still ongoing too.

Yes prices have been rising, and those that are new arrivals will have all the same complaints about change after they've been here a while.

Some will go, many will stay, round and round it goes.

Burma's not nearly ready to hold a candle, most of us don't want to have to keep looking over our shoulder THAT much given the kind of shenanigans we're used to getting away with scot-free here.

Cambodia's certainly improving and has a lot going for it, but still a bit too dirty and undeveloped for my taste, Laos that much more so, not to mention having to learn a whole 'nother language.

By the time I'm ready to move on from Thailand, perhaps North Korea will be opening up

NeverSure · March 25, 2013

If anyone thinks that Cambodia is cheaper, he's dreaming. Yes, some things are cheaper but in Chiang Mai or Pattaya the cost of housing and food is so danged cheap that it will balance out anything else in Cambodia. I mean of course rent for something close to Western for those on a budget. The food will be far better and cheaper in Thailand.

Alcohol of all types, cigarettes and bar girls cost less in Cambodia. Clothes cost less. That's almost all I can think of. There hasn't been the boom in building housing and the crap I looked at for US$300 per month (10,000 baht m/l) was so bad I was immediately looking at units that were $600 before I'd lay my head down in the place. $750 before I wouldn't get totally depressed.

Health care sucks in Cambodia. Be prepared to pay big bucks for an air ambulance flight to Bangkok.

The only thing I know that's better for some is the easy walk-in $300 m/l annual visa with no money or age requirements or red tape.

Edited March 25, 2013 by NeverSure

Star Dust · March 25, 2013

I've to say that Cambodia, (I've been in Siem Reap) is a cool place. Awesome food, English skills of the locals are WAY better then the Thais (good for NES).

However, everyone has his/her own opinions about the country they live in.

Why not just go and visit the place first, and see for yourself.

Beetlejuice · March 25, 2013

Good post, Homeownership.

Over my very long period of staying in Thailand something’s have remained the same, but there has also been a significant amount of changes that I don`t believe are for the better.

As far as I am aware, there have never been any real expat communities. Those that do plonk themselves here seem to melt away into the background and most prefer to keep to themselves. They are not very hospitable. The latest batch of farangs now staying here long term certainly do not seem to be changing that mode and in many cases are perhaps best avoided, which I think in many cases is they`re preference.

The low priced Kingdom of adventures has become much more commercialised since I first landed here. Attitudes have changed and everything is a lot more expensive, the emphasis being, give less for more.

But I am not specifically knocking Thailand. I believe it`s swings and roundabouts. What maybe better in Thailand could be worse in other countries and vice versa.

I blame most of the despondency on the state of the economies. It is becoming increasingly difficult to maintain our preferred lifestyles and standards of living and this is going to have an effect and take it`s toll on us wherever we live.

In my opinion it`s all down to greed by the banks and businesses that constantly want a greater slice of the cake and there are no ways of bypassing the systems no matter where we go.

rene123 · March 25, 2013

There is cheap living in Canada. All you need to be is Canadian. Canada welcomes tax evaders, drug pushers, murderers from India and large company scam artists. Canada even provided a safe haven in a high class neighbourhood for a Thai businessman who stole close to a billion dollars from the Thai banks. Become an immigrant and then go on welfare and live off the dole. The provinces actually take pretty good care of the needy. Health care is excellent and free. The tax payers cover the expenses. It's even better if you are a First Nations person. They even reward the women for having more babies. And, you don't have to pay attention to Canadian laws. The only drawback is the weather is not so pleasant in the winter months.

uptheos · March 25, 2013

I've never met a Russian in Chiang Mai and although I've been to Burma often, it wouldn't be on my list of 'stable' countries.

(I'm not saying Russian's aren't here, just not met one)

Edited March 25, 2013 by uptheos

JLCrab · March 25, 2013

As per #27 above, I take umbrage (not really) that I melt away in the background and am not very hospitable. I am very hospitable with several comely young Thai persons and often with my neighbors farang or otherwise. Several Thais, male & female, I have helped through school, gotten better jobs, & mostly with those who do not speak English.

If I wanted to hangout with farang males, there would be some excellent places I could do it: California, Colorado, Florida, Hawaii, etc.

Beetlejuice · March 25, 2013

As per #27 above, I take umbrage (not really) that I melt away in the background and am not very hospitable. I am very hospitable with several comely young Thai persons and often with my neighbors farang or otherwise. Several Thais, male & female, I have helped through school, gotten better jobs, & mostly with those who do not speak English.

If I wanted to hangout with farang males, there would be some excellent places I could do it: California, Colorado, Florida, Hawaii, etc.

You’re contradicting yourself.

JLCrab · March 25, 2013

My neighbors are just that -- they are there whether I like them or not and the ones I didn't like thankfully have moved on. As I said, if I had a great need for birds of a feather, I wouldn't be in Thailand. I started working as mentioned above in Asia 25 years ago, speak and read several Asian languages besides Thai although none to a full fluency level, and I would say that most, but certainly not all, of the persons who complain about Thailand do not speak Thai and are thus disenfranchised from the majority of the Thai population

... and the biggest problem I see among the expat population in Thailand is plain old-fashioned boredom.

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