You're Fired (Part Two)

Marcorue1 · March 25, 2013

Following on from a topic I placed here the other day "YOU'RE FIRED".

Thank you for all the comments, this has really given me a lot to think about and really opened up my mind for many ways I can act if this happens to me again. At present I am still at the school for the last week but I'm looking for other work as I no longer wish to work here due to the way they treated me and the other teacher. I am still worried that my last pay at the end of April will not be paid to me but as I am planning on staying here in Thailand, taking legal action is an option about this as I will have plenty of time to wait for an outcome. This is my first year in the country and I am disappointed with the way the school has acted as they gave me no warning or showed me no compassion in there actions.

Thank you to everyone who's advice I will act upon and I hope that by working together we can stop schools acting this way against foreign teachers who they think will just come and go, I think they forget that we are here to stay and not just passing through this country and we have plenty of time to act.

Rolo Tomazi · March 25, 2013

I don't get it - you successfully secured another contract, you probably will get paid, why find another job?

I've lived here for twelve years and the problem you had (past tense!) as just a little speed bump in the road.

Who knows what'll await you at your nexy job at a different school?

If there are no other serious problems I recommend to stay.

Marcorue1 · March 25, 2013

I am going to leave as I have already taken the action to do so. My new job offer gives me and extra 5,000 baht a month and bonus at the end the contract. Yes I don't know what awaits me in my new job but this school has made me feel so low and I'm not prepared to let them make me feel this way again.

USNret · March 25, 2013

I'm still amazed how, at the confrontational meeting you had with school staff, you got them to change their mind and they offered you a new contract. Seems to violate basic rules of Thai-ness and I don't know how you pulled it off.

I can understand your desire to change jobs, feeling unappreciated in your present position. I myself have done the same thing in the American workforce. Hope you find what you're looking for in the new job and the extra salary certainly won't hurt.

Marcorue1 · March 25, 2013

In the meeting I simply listened to them and agreed with there points and then talked to them giving my own ideas and giving them the idea that they were there own. It's hard to go against an idea that you think is your own. The other teacher may not of know how to do this and I had the feeling as I saw him walk into the meeting that they were going to try to firer him instead. I know I was lucky to do what I did but what's to stop them doing this again and I may not be able to talk them around the next time.

Eddy B · March 25, 2013

Well you have another years visa if you stay at the same school, plus during that year it will give you time to build up a nice portfolio and the chance to put feelers out for a new school come this time next year. If you quit you are being a real ass-hole to the guy that got canned. They offered you the job and kicked him to the curb..........and now you want to just walk away from the job that could have gone to him. Either you are very smart, just dumb or not a nice person. If you are really going to quit let the old school know this now so that the other guy has a chance to get his old job back!

sirchai · March 25, 2013

In the meeting I simply listened to them and agreed with there points and then talked to them giving my own ideas and giving them the idea that they were there own. It's hard to go against an idea that you think is your own. The other teacher may not of know how to do this and I had the feeling as I saw him walk into the meeting that they were going to try to firer him instead. I know I was lucky to do what I did but what's to stop them doing this again and I may not be able to talk them around the next time.

Why would you change school, if you don't know how bad the new one could be? Reading your posts just gave me the feeling that you're not that familiar with Thai schools and the way some schools treat their staff. ( Not just foreigners!)

Your decision shouldn't be based on making more money. I prefer a good working environment, making less cash.

Once you leave your school, you'll also have to leave the country again to apply for a new visa, I guess. Then the temporary license etc......

Please understand that I do not criticize your decision, but you should consider your English writing skills, working AS an English teacher. No grammar police, you misspell easy words, but not just once.

I'm also hiring teachers for our school and such mistakes in your resume wouldn't even get you to an interview. If I were you, I'd rethink the whole situation and maybe give it another chance.

A new contract would also mean that they'd have to pay you through April and May, right? Good luck, whatever your decision will be.--

Edited March 25, 2013 by sirchai

Scott · March 25, 2013

I have heard about things like this before, but usually it is a matter of a school having too many teachers and having to let someone go.

colinneil · March 25, 2013

My thoughts are op is not a nice person. He has not been here long enough to understand thais and thai culture.

Money is not the only thing in life, To hell with the school, i am going for more money, what about job satisfaction caring about the children.

Ithink op is selfish , arrogant thinks only me me me.

In time you will learn to understand thai people i hope you learn before it is to late.

Marcorue1 · March 26, 2013

Hey I do care about the children, I think you miss understand what this is about. I really do not feel that the way they talked to me was fair and not air to the other teacher. You say this is Thai culture, I do not think so, you think Thai people acting like this is normal? I think you need to find new Thai friends and Thai people to spend your time with.

My girlfriend is Thai and whenever she hears people say its Thai style she gets really unhappy, this is not thai style this is just a group of people who don't care about others and think we are an easy target.

And about money, well yes it's not everything but when it comes to been able to buy a plane ticket or travel to a nice hotel on your holidays, buy the food I like and the clothing I like. Then yes it matters.

I'm not moving because of money, I'm moving because I don't feel happy working in this school anymore.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Marcorue1

Rolo Tomazi · March 26, 2013

But you managed to keep your job - I think from now on they won't mess that easily with you. You defended yourself, you kept your job, and the whole school was watching. Even the lowest assistant teacher will hear that story!

To leave because "they made you feel bad" or that they were "not fair" shows that you are new to Thailand.

What do you think how long it will take at a new job to "make you feel bad"? If I got one baht for every curse word of foreign teachers I met who were treated unfairly it would pay for a nice vacation!

At the new job you have to establish yourself again. I think you were very lucky to win the first time, those people must have been some push-overs. It may well be different the next time! And one thing is guaranteed: there will be a next time!

I can see your post in about three months: "Feeling bad - being treated unfairly at my new job"...

USNret · March 26, 2013

In the meeting I simply listened to them and agreed with there points and then talked to them giving my own ideas and giving them the idea that they were there own. It's hard to go against an idea that you think is your own.

Ahhh, the old Jedi mind trick. Well done! :-)

Marcorue1 · March 26, 2013

Yes I understand what you are saying and yes this is my first year here in Thailand. But I'm planning on staying and I think I will have to establish myself wherever I go if what I'm hearing here about Thai people. But the Thai people I have met outside of my job have been good to me and I trust that they are not bad people.

I have a teacher at the school I'm leaving who feels the same as what you guys have told me, so I believe that there must be a lot of bad Thai bosses but I will have to keep doing what I'm doing, work hard and be a good teacher.

Rolo Tomazi · March 26, 2013

Yes I understand what you are saying and yes this is my first year here in Thailand. But I'm planning on staying and I think I will have to establish myself wherever I go if what I'm hearing here about Thai people. But the Thai people I have met outside of my job have been good to me and I trust that they are not bad people.

I have a teacher at the school I'm leaving who feels the same as what you guys have told me, so I believe that there must be a lot of bad Thai bosses but I will have to keep doing what I'm doing, work hard and be a good teacher.

Of course Thai people are not bad people, they just have this canny ability to make the wrong decisions which leaves you and me up a certain creek.

The teacher who feels as we do must be an experienced teacher!

Good luck to you!

But hang on, you just were lucky, come to think of it. The other teacher wasn't. He would have loved to keep the job you now throw away. Maybe it's time for some Thai-reality.

transam · March 26, 2013

My thoughts are op is not a nice person. He has not been here long enough to understand thais and thai culture.

Money is not the only thing in life, To hell with the school, i am going for more money, what about job satisfaction caring about the children.

Ithink op is selfish , arrogant thinks only me me me.

In time you will learn to understand thai people i hope you learn before it is to late.

I think you are wrong regarding YOUR points.

Scott · March 26, 2013

My thoughts are op is not a nice person. He has not been here long enough to understand thais and thai culture.

Money is not the only thing in life, To hell with the school, i am going for more money, what about job satisfaction caring about the children.

Ithink op is selfish , arrogant thinks only me me me.

In time you will learn to understand thai people i hope you learn before it is to late.

I think you are wrong regarding YOUR points.

I find that I have much greater job satisfaction if I have enough money to live comfortably. I find that I care a lot more about the children when I have enough to eat, as well.

I also find I work better and more effectively when I am not worried about getting fired.

aTomsLife · March 26, 2013

The OP stated

I am going to leave as I have already taken the action to do so. My new job offer gives me and extra 5,000 baht a month and bonus at the end the contract. Yes I don't know what awaits me in my new job but this school has made me feel so low and I'm not prepared to let them make me feel this way again.

The OP's reasoning is sound. And if he's making more money to boot, all the better.

His employer demoralized him. Life's too short to suffer that nonsense, especially when considering that we left our homes for a better life here in LOS.

That some of you think it's perfectly acceptable to have your jobs threatened on a whim is ridiculous. Constructive criticism is one thing, but what happened to the OP should not be normal behavior. And if it's becoming more normal, it's likely to do with the complacent attitudes displayed in some of the replies here.

Had more foreign teachers stood up for themselves over the years, Thai administrators wouldn't attempt to play the games they do. It's no wonder so many schools/agencies can get away with offering 10 month contracts. Most of you seem willing to stay in Thailand at any cost, even if the price is your dignity. Pathetic.

And what's with all the speculation about the other teacher being able to keep his job if the OP hadn't won his argument? It's just as likely the school planned to double its savings and can them both, irrespective of how the OP was able to settle the matter for himself.

metisdead · March 26, 2013

An inflammatory post has been removed.

isawasnake · March 26, 2013

This is my first year in the country and I am disappointed with the way the school has acted as they gave me no warning or showed me no compassion in there actions.

Get used to it.

thaicbr · March 26, 2013

My thoughts are op is not a nice person. He has not been here long enough to understand thais and thai culture.

Money is not the only thing in life, To hell with the school, i am going for more money, what about job satisfaction caring about the children.

Ithink op is selfish , arrogant thinks only me me me.

In time you will learn to understand thai people i hope you learn before it is to late.

Colinneil.. You seem to have an opinion about this.. Can i ask a question.. Your 10,000b a month salary is that your only income?

If not. You don't mind telling us what it is.. just a rough round figure of your monthly income (pensions etc).. Thanks.

Edited March 26, 2013 by thaicbr

colinneil · March 26, 2013

thaicbr .to answer your question ,no the 10.000 baht was not my only income. i worked for many years with my own company in the uk, so being prudent for years with my money i have a reasonable amount in the bank , not yet elligible for a pension

Marcorue1 · March 27, 2013

Isawasnake, no don't get used to it, change it. My first year here in Thailand has shown me one thing. Too many foreigners except been treated with no respect.

Don't except it, you wouldn't except it in your home country so why except it here.?

thequietman · March 27, 2013

We are looking for a teacher to start May 1st. Please pm me if you are interested. Thanks.

thaicbr · March 27, 2013

thaicbr .to answer your question ,no the 10.000 baht was not my only income. i worked for many years with my own company in the uk, so being prudent for years with my money i have a reasonable amount in the bank , not yet elligible for a pension

Where as many Foreign English Teachers work for as little as 25k b a month.. Most would top out at about 40-45 at a normal school.

They may not have the luxury of "reasonable savings" so have to find a job that pays well enough AND is secure.. Something that is quite difficult here in Thailand as a teacher. It can take a few hard years to find a teaching job were you at least have some measure of security. Please don't forget that most if not all teaching jobs are 1 year contracts or less. some are as low as 9 months paid and the remaining 3 months statutory holidays unpaid (they may also be hourly paid so Bhudda holidays unpaid as well). Have you ever tried living on 18750b per month... I have ..didn't like it.

Thankfully after a few years at bad agencies and schools i have been at the same school for 6 years on a decent deal.

Regards Allan

aTomsLife · March 27, 2013

thaicbr .to answer your question ,no the 10.000 baht was not my only income. i worked for many years with my own company in the uk, so being prudent for years with my money i have a reasonable amount in the bank , not yet elligible for a pension

Ok, that's great; no one's begrudging you your wealth. But do people a favor and stay off your soapbox. Some teachers have no choice but to make salary a priority when considering whether to stay put or to seek a new post. And in the OP's case, after factoring the hostile work environment, it's a no-brainer.

siampolee · March 27, 2013

Sadly people like colinneil are the reason that a small number of This school management teams act as they do,they find someone who is willing to undercut someone else, rub their hands with glee at the prospect of the money saved and of course the arduous paperwork regarding a work permit, health insurance is negated too.

One does wonder whether these ''I can afford to work for peanuts'' teachers are actually qualified ?

I have found in the past when these characters appear for an interview they tend to be unqualified and sad to say want to stay here for the wrong reasons, older fellow young girl true love etc, sun sea sand and sex, Oh we have to work 5 days a week do we?

These shameless characters are the characters who undermine the status of foreign teachers here in Thailand and other countries too.

I am a cynical soul who has seen many a prospective teacher with the most amazing qualifications comedy turns in my 22+ years of teaching here in Thailand.

Those turns can fool the Thai admin and the agencies will hire them as they're a white face and of course they're cheap, however if the management is western such characters normally fail to get the post.

The O.P. has to my mind made a positive move as I said in the first thread concerning his or her position, ''You've won a battle but you've started a war.''

Loyalty and the respect of ones students and ones school are fine attributes , however loyalty and respect are a two way street,seems as if the O.P. was navigating a one way street.

Voted with his or her feet , all part of the experience of teaching in Thailand

Edited March 27, 2013 by siampolee

sirchai · March 27, 2013

Isawasnake, no don't get used to it, change it. My first year here in Thailand has shown me one thing. Too many foreigners except been treated with no respect.

Don't except it, you wouldn't except it in your home country so why except it here.?

Some schools just don't expect that foreigners accept unexpected exceptions....

thaicbr · March 27, 2013

One of my private students works for the Labour dept.. So i asked her what are the rules..

any contract has 180 day probation, from 180days to 12 mths its 30 days paid notice (does not matter what is in the contract)

She also stated that the Labour office consider back to back 12th contracts to be same as continuous work. I have 6 years in at my school.. so they would have to pay me 8 mths severance pay...cool ( i forgot to ask her how its worked out)

Edited March 27, 2013 by thaicbr

Scott · March 27, 2013

One of my private students works for the Labour dept.. So i asked her what are the rules..

any contract has 180 day probation, from 180days to 12 mths its 30 days paid notice (does not matter what is in the contract)

She also stated that the Labour office consider back to back 12th contracts to be same as continuous work. I have 6 years in at my school.. so they would have to pay me 8 mths severance pay...cool ( i forgot to ask her how its worked out)

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but if you work for a private school then that may not be the case, under the Private School Act. There are other threads that discuss this, but forewarned is forearmed.

thaicbr · March 27, 2013

One of my private students works for the Labour dept.. So i asked her what are the rules..

any contract has 180 day probation, from 180days to 12 mths its 30 days paid notice (does not matter what is in the contract)

She also stated that the Labour office consider back to back 12th contracts to be same as continuous work. I have 6 years in at my school.. so they would have to pay me 8 mths severance pay...cool ( i forgot to ask her how its worked out)

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but if you work for a private school then that may not be the case, under the Private School Act. There are other threads that discuss this, but forewarned is forearmed.

I will ask.. But she does know where i work full time.

My school is a private catholic school under the MOE. Not sure if that's private in the sense of the School act.

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