Thai at Heart Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 So they have zero convictions for arson. So was it terrorism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 So they have zero convictions for arson. So was it terrorism? A month ago k. Tarit already said it not to be an act of terrorism as no link with "Men-in-Black" was found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 "Today's ruling proves that Red Shirt protesters did not burn down Central World," said one of their leaders, Weng Tojirakarn. I guess that means that the redshirt leadership cant be force to pay for the arson damage. Hopefully like the yellowshirt leaders they will be required to compensate for the loss of business. ... the yellow shirt is probably another issue.but i guess it means the courts will also find nobody that they could declare guilty or responsible for the all those deaths. whoever the defendants might be the outcome will be - not enough evidence. Not true. If the charges are against the defenders they will automatically be found guilty. A red shirt was a license to do any thing and a later government sanctioned it. Was there ever any charges or accusations for invading a hospital? UDD leader Dr. weng apologized about the Hospital case (aka the hospital visit by peaceful protesters led by some soft-spoken UDD leader), or at least he said his people were carried away a bit, they didn't mean it, no harm done, hospital still standing, etc., etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mosha Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Blokes stand on a stage saying burn it down, and there is no one to prove 2 blokes obeyed the order? Amazing Thailand or Unseen in Thailand. Or just TIT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisY1 Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 So it appears that Jeff Savage is a proven psychic. He knew that the red leadership had instructed the masses to burn Central World, and the video of him saying exactly that before the spontaneous combustion occurred is on Youtube for the world to view. Uri Geller and Paul McKenna must be getting nervous.do you think uri geller is a proven psychic? Doh ...!!!.....some people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisY1 Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Says absolutely nothing for the judiciary here in Thailand......unbiased....???? What a crock!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Says absolutely nothing for the judiciary here in Thailand......unbiased....???? What a crock!! To be fair I don't think anyone here has ever claimed the Thai judiciary is unbiased. Not while keeping a straight face anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZhouZhou Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 "Today's ruling proves that Red Shirt protesters did not burn down Central World," said one of their leaders, Weng Tojirakarn. I guess that means that the redshirt leadership cant be force to pay for the arson damage. Hopefully like the yellowshirt leaders they will be required to compensate for the loss of business. ... the yellow shirt is probably another issue. but i guess it means the courts will also find nobody that they could declare guilty or responsible for the all those deaths. whoever the defendants might be the outcome will be - not enough evidence. Not true. If the charges are against the defenders they will automatically be found guilty. A red shirt was a license to do any thing and a later government sanctioned it. Was there ever any charges or accusations for invading a hospital? i meant the whole spectrum, green, brown blue, red. black. anybody involved is accused of something by the other side. abhisit charged with murder, the army charged with killing the people, thaksin charged with treason, red shirts charged with arson the black shirt charged with terrorism and so on. the courts will drop all these cases because of insufficient evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 (edited) "Today's ruling proves that Red Shirt protesters did not burn down Central World," said one of their leaders, Weng Tojirakarn. I guess that means that the redshirt leadership cant be force to pay for the arson damage. Hopefully like the yellowshirt leaders they will be required to compensate for the loss of business. ... the yellow shirt is probably another issue.but i guess it means the courts will also find nobody that they could declare guilty or responsible for the all those deaths. whoever the defendants might be the outcome will be - not enough evidence. Not true. If the charges are against the defenders they will automatically be found guilty. A red shirt was a license to do any thing and a later government sanctioned it. Was there ever any charges or accusations for invading a hospital? i meant the whole spectrum, green, brown blue, red. black. anybody involved is accused of something by the other side.abhisit charged with murder, the army charged with killing the people, thaksin charged with treason, red shirts charged with arson the black shirt charged with terrorism and so on. the courts will drop all these cases because of insufficient evidence. Really? The courts may have to drop cases because of amnesty for all (except Abhisit/Suthep of course). There seems to be some evidence that UDD leaders urged their peaceful supporters to be violent (speeches), there seems to be evidence that Thaksin is involved (interviews), etc., etc. BTW congratulations. After three days and 178 posts your English has improved tremendously. Well done! Edited March 25, 2013 by rubl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AleG Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 i meant the whole spectrum, green, brown blue, red. black. anybody involved is accused of something by the other side. abhisit charged with murder, the army charged with killing the people, thaksin charged with treason, red shirts charged with arson the black shirt charged with terrorism and so on. the courts will drop all these cases because of insufficient evidence. Just as a sample: 12 red shirts jailed over town hall burning, 9 freed The Provincial Court yesterday sentenced four red shirts to 33 years and four months' jail each, while eight others were given terms ranging from one to three years for their involvement in the arson of Ubon Ratchathani City Hall during rioting on May 19 last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZhouZhou Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 reading that the accused here already served a couple of month jail time for violation of the emergency decree . i dare to guess what happen to those who get caught with their bling and watches loot. they probably also spend jail time for theft, but just didn't make to a high profile case like this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 BTW congratulations. After three days and 178 posts your English has improved tremendously. Well done! Dutch sarcasm. Quite ugly and much too bland, bit like the cheese I suppose........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 reading that the accused here already served a couple of month jail time for violation of the emergency decree . i dare to guess what happen to those who get caught with their bling and watches loot. they probably also spend jail time for theft, but just didn't make to a high profile case like this one. Those who made use of the busses provided by the government were unpleasantly surprised to have their 'found' goods confiscated before being allowed to board the busses. Anyway most seemed to have got away without serving time. Same for all peaceful protesters vandalizing ATMs, telephone booths, 7/11s , etc., etc. bwhile on the way home. Obviously we should blame Abhisit for this as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 BTW congratulations. After three days and 178 posts your English has improved tremendously. Well done! Dutch sarcasm. Quite ugly and much too bland, bit like the cheese I suppose........ My dear phil, if you care to trace back to the first dozen or so posts of ZZ and compare them with the last ones here, I'm sure you would also utter a heartfelt admiration about how just posting on TV can improve someones grasp, understanding and use of the English language. As a non-native English speaker I can admire that and therefor I gave a thump-up. Lighten up man and try some of the 'old' cheese or the ones with cummin or cloves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimamey Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 (edited) If it's the paper I recall [mid-'11] I was puzzled about the singular focus on just the Central World complex [or more precisely Zen]. Despite being full of bourgeois comments and the city-nation-state it oddly omitted to mention any of the other arson or violent attacks, such as the SET [which might even factor into his argument], actions outside Bangkok such as the city hall attacks [which don't] let alone the other destruction which occurred. The other odd thing to me was the presentation of the bucolic nature of the protesters, almost as if the gentle, possibly wise, country folk feeling out of place in the urban monstrosity could not possible have had the technical or even planning skills to contemplate such an act. Even ignoring the inherent insulting nature of such a presentation [though that I suspect that was not the author's intention] the result is a patchwork of oddly out of time contemplations with little data. The problem is there are legitimate questions about what happened and how the fire got such a hold. Not saying there are not, and ideally the time-lines and knowledge should be laid out for all to see. However, these questions do not negate the position that there is little substantive evidence at this time that shows another narrative. All that is shown are apparent inconsistencies which are highlighted without giving space for the consistencies. [this is like the actions of the 911 "truthers"] If there are no witnesses then possibly this is the right verdict. I must admit it's a bit odd when someone says that they know it wasn't the red shirts but don't seem to mention anything about who it was. They must have witnessed something otherwise how would they know it wasn't red shirts. I notice that the chairperson of the owners of CW commented that he considered that he felt the red shirts had good relations with the store and that it was a well armed gang of soldiers. If it was well armed then it can't have been the real peaceful ones can it. I'm sure most of the red shirts were peaceful but I think it's obvious that there was a small minority who were anything but that and were intent on violence. A_Traveller: I've been reading Arthur Conan Doyle's Sherlock Holmes books and I noticed a few points such as the use of the terms 'singular' and 'narrative' which are very reminiscent of his writing. Have you been reading him as well or are you actually Doyle reincarnated and carrying on your excellent work on Thaivisa? Edited March 25, 2013 by kimamey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chao Lao Beach Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 (edited) Thailand is a kind of cute comedy when you think about it Hub of cute comedies Edited March 25, 2013 by Chao Lao Beach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cms22 Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 As expected, all the right-wing anti-thaksin TV members (and there's so many of them!) come out on this one.... LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toenail Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 I know, the 4-5 building that were set on fire on the same day was an act of god. How amazing. This court case shows you how pathetic the system or should I say how poorly the investigation was done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Hardly original, I'm sorry:As expected, all the innocent red-shirt, anti-unelected-elite, 'disliking Thaksin but' TV members (and there're still some of them) come out on this one.... LOL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZhouZhou Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 My dear phil, if you care to trace back to the first dozen or so posts of ZZ and compare them with the last ones here, I'm sure you would also utter a heartfelt admiration about how just posting on TV can improve someones grasp, understanding and use of the English language. As a non-native English speaker I can admire that and therefor I gave a thump-up. Lighten up man and try some of the 'old' cheese or the ones with cummin or cloves I post with different lvl of concentration and at different times of the day what leads maybe to differnt lvl of mastering english. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZhouZhou Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 i meant the whole spectrum, green, brown blue, red. black. anybody involved is accused of something by the other side. abhisit charged with murder, the army charged with killing the people, thaksin charged with treason, red shirts charged with arson the black shirt charged with terrorism and so on. the courts will drop all these cases because of insufficient evidence. Really? The courts may have to drop cases because of amnesty for all (except Abhisit/Suthep of course). There seems to be some evidence that UDD leaders urged their peaceful supporters to be violent (speeches), there seems to be evidence that Thaksin is involved (interviews), etc., etc. BTW congratulations. After three days and 178 posts your English has improved tremendously. Well done! Who do you think burned down CW? seemed it that there is plenty evidence for it? or not. they will drop the other cases like this one. do you think there are any chances of a guilty verdict against Abhisit/Suthep? against an army sniper? i don't think so. udd leaders and thaksin - i doubt a guilty verdict too and that without the help of the amnesty card. the not enough evidence solution will please everyone well. in the future the sides involved have to live with each other somehow. so know one will really a deep investigation about what really happen. a short version for the history books blaming some mysterious man in black without naming any association maybe. Thai history will handle that similar to the bloody October events in the 70s last century. some grass root pawns will still lay down flowers at rajaprsong but politics will marching on without any big showdown between thaksin and abhisit or so and a final winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZhouZhou Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 i meant the whole spectrum, green, brown blue, red. black. anybody involved is accused of something by the other side. abhisit charged with murder, the army charged with killing the people, thaksin charged with treason, red shirts charged with arson the black shirt charged with terrorism and so on. the courts will drop all these cases because of insufficient evidence. Just as a sample: 12 red shirts jailed over town hall burning, 9 freed The Provincial Court yesterday sentenced four red shirts to 33 years and four months' jail each, while eight others were given terms ranging from one to three years for their involvement in the arson of Ubon Ratchathani City Hall during rioting on May 19 last year. yes. pawns. there are also red terrorists . like the bomb builder. but that will left as single cases of some random punks acting violently. there will be not sufficient evidence to link the cases up to a commando chain with the red leaders on top or no evidence that is it a big well organized terrorist organization. respectively a court will rule that evidence is insufficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 i meant the whole spectrum, green, brown blue, red. black. anybody involved is accused of something by the other side.abhisit charged with murder, the army charged with killing the people, thaksin charged with treason, red shirts charged with arson the black shirt charged with terrorism and so on.the courts will drop all these cases because of insufficient evidence. Really? The courts may have to drop cases because of amnesty for all (except Abhisit/Suthep of course). There seems to be some evidence that UDD leaders urged their peaceful supporters to be violent (speeches), there seems to be evidence that Thaksin is involved (interviews), etc., etc. BTW congratulations. After three days and 178 posts your English has improved tremendously. Well done!Who do you think burned down CW? seemed it that there is plenty evidence for it? or not.they will drop the other cases like this one.do you think there are any chances of a guilty verdict against Abhisit/Suthep? against an army sniper? i don't think so.udd leaders and thaksin - i doubt a guilty verdict too and that without the help of the amnesty card.the not enough evidence solution will please everyone well. in the future the sides involved have to live with each other somehow. so know one will really a deep investigation about what really happen. a short version for the history books blaming some mysterious man in black without naming any association maybe.Thai history will handle that similar to the bloody October events in the 70s last century.some grass root pawns will still lay down flowers at rajaprsong but politics will marching on without any big showdown between thaksin and abhisit or so and a final winner. There will have to be a decision one way or another or the insurers will never settle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muttley Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 (edited) If it's the paper I recall [mid-'11] I was puzzled about the singular focus on just the Central World complex [or more precisely Zen]. Despite being full of bourgeois comments and the city-nation-state it oddly omitted to mention any of the other arson or violent attacks, such as the SET [which might even factor into his argument], actions outside Bangkok such as the city hall attacks [which don't] let alone the other destruction which occurred. The other odd thing to me was the presentation of the bucolic nature of the protesters, almost as if the gentle, possibly wise, country folk feeling out of place in the urban monstrosity could not possible have had the technical or even planning skills to contemplate such an act. Even ignoring the inherent insulting nature of such a presentation [though that I suspect that was not the author's intention] the result is a patchwork of oddly out of time contemplations with little data. The problem is there are legitimate questions about what happened and how the fire got such a hold. Not saying there are not, and ideally the time-lines and knowledge should be laid out for all to see. However, these questions do not negate the position that there is little substantive evidence at this time that shows another narrative. All that is shown are apparent inconsistencies which are highlighted without giving space for the consistencies. [this is like the actions of the 911 "truthers"] To be perfectly honest I was more interested in his explanation of what Central World represented to Bangkokians rather than the conspiracy part of things though he like others have pointed out the two fires which most people on here ignore and a few other salient points but pointless trying to debate those in this atmosphere.. Back to the paper - its description of the myth and the demonisation of the red shirts (Thongchai Winichakul wrote a good piece on the perceived "invasion" of Chulalongkorn by the red shirt "germs") could go some way to explaining a few peoples attitudes on this forum. Edited March 25, 2013 by muttley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Reading the other paper, the conclusive evidence was that he had a green tee shirt on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 It's interesting that the actions of PM Abhisit are suggested to be on the same level as that of UDD leaders urging their supporters to revolt, burn down places, smash banks (like SCB and BBL) and a criminal fugitive (aka Thaksin) who is only concerned for Thailand and it's people to the point he skypes in to 'advise' his cabinet his orders how to run his country.Obviously the actions of the legitimate PM are to be condemned, but the peaceful grenade lobbing in a democratic fashion is hardly worth mentioning.The very fact of writing all are about the same already rewrites part of history and simply suggests that no one was really bad (apart from Abhisit/Suthep of course) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muttley Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 reading that the accused here already served a couple of month jail time for violation of the emergency decree . i dare to guess what happen to those who get caught with their bling and watches loot. they probably also spend jail time for theft, but just didn't make to a high profile case like this one. More than a couple of months ZZ. They have been in jail since 2010. 6 months sentence for violation of the emergency decree and the rest of the time in jail because they were refused bail. They're going to qualify for the maximum compensation, not that makes up for the stress of being on trial for your life and banged up in a Thai jail all that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellodolly Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 "Today's ruling proves that Red Shirt protesters did not burn down Central World," said one of their leaders, Weng Tojirakarn. I guess that means that the redshirt leadership cant be force to pay for the arson damage. Hopefully like the yellowshirt leaders they will be required to compensate for the loss of business. ... the yellow shirt is probably another issue.but i guess it means the courts will also find nobody that they could declare guilty or responsible for the all those deaths. whoever the defendants might be the outcome will be - not enough evidence. Not true. If the charges are against the defenders they will automatically be found guilty. A red shirt was a license to do any thing and a later government sanctioned it. Was there ever any charges or accusations for invading a hospital? i meant the whole spectrum, green, brown blue, red. black. anybody involved is accused of something by the other side.abhisit charged with murder, the army charged with killing the people, thaksin charged with treason, red shirts charged with arson the black shirt charged with terrorism and so on. the courts will drop all these cases because of insufficient evidence. What country are you referring to. In Thailand the courts drop cases because they involve red shirts. Tons and tons of u tube videos proving the red shirts were terroists and you claim there is no proof. What do you call them peaceful armed country folks on a camping trip in down town Bangkok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellodolly Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 i meant the whole spectrum, green, brown blue, red. black. anybody involved is accused of something by the other side. abhisit charged with murder, the army charged with killing the people, thaksin charged with treason, red shirts charged with arson the black shirt charged with terrorism and so on. the courts will drop all these cases because of insufficient evidence. Really? The courts may have to drop cases because of amnesty for all (except Abhisit/Suthep of course). There seems to be some evidence that UDD leaders urged their peaceful supporters to be violent (speeches), there seems to be evidence that Thaksin is involved (interviews), etc., etc. BTW congratulations. After three days and 178 posts your English has improved tremendously. Well done! Who do you think burned down CW? seemed it that there is plenty evidence for it? or not.they will drop the other cases like this one. do you think there are any chances of a guilty verdict against Abhisit/Suthep? against an army sniper? i don't think so. udd leaders and thaksin - i doubt a guilty verdict too and that without the help of the amnesty card. the not enough evidence solution will please everyone well. in the future the sides involved have to live with each other somehow. so know one will really a deep investigation about what really happen. a short version for the history books blaming some mysterious man in black without naming any association maybe. Thai history will handle that similar to the bloody October events in the 70s last century. some grass root pawns will still lay down flowers at rajaprsong but politics will marching on without any big showdown between thaksin and abhisit or so and a final winner. I am beginning to believe you are not a troll just some one with a graduate degree with honors from the red shirt schools. your words "do you think there are any chances of a guilty verdict against Abhisit/Suthep? against an army sniper? i don't think so. udd leaders and thaksin - i doubt a guilty verdict too and that without the help of the amnesty card." Of course Abhist, Suthep and army personnel are not going to be found guilty of doing any thing wrong they will be found guilty of doing their job. It goes with out saying that UDD leaders and Thaksin will go free they are immune to wrong doing by the color of their shirt. (RED) I would have thought that was one of the first things you were tought in red shirt school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZhouZhou Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 If it's the paper I recall [mid-'11] I was puzzled about the singular focus on just the Central World complex [or more precisely Zen]. Despite being full of bourgeois comments and the city-nation-state it oddly omitted to mention any of the other arson or violent attacks, such as the SET [which might even factor into his argument], actions outside Bangkok such as the city hall attacks [which don't] let alone the other destruction which occurred. The other odd thing to me was the presentation of the bucolic nature of the protesters, almost as if the gentle, possibly wise, country folk feeling out of place in the urban monstrosity could not possible have had the technical or even planning skills to contemplate such an act. Even ignoring the inherent insulting nature of such a presentation [though that I suspect that was not the author's intention] the result is a patchwork of oddly out of time contemplations with little data. The problem is there are legitimate questions about what happened and how the fire got such a hold. Not saying there are not, and ideally the time-lines and knowledge should be laid out for all to see. However, these questions do not negate the position that there is little substantive evidence at this time that shows another narrative. All that is shown are apparent inconsistencies which are highlighted without giving space for the consistencies. [this is like the actions of the 911 "truthers"] To be perfectly honest I was more interested in his explanation of what Central World represented to Bangkokians rather than the conspiracy part of things though he like others have pointed out the two fires which most people on here ignore and a few other salient points but pointless trying to debate those in this atmosphere.. Back to the paper - its description of the myth and the demonisation of the red shirts (Thongchai Winichakul wrote a good piece on the perceived "invasion" of Chulalongkorn by the red shirt "germs") could go some way to explaining a few peoples attitudes on this forum. the jim taylor myth paper? he sounds a bit odd. i don't get his scientific approach, method. obviously some marxist school, but then a freestyle social researcher with a poetic vein? some structuralist buzz words. i see want he wants to show but i think he goes a little bit over the top when he describes what central word means for the bourgeoisie. for my tatse he becomes too poetic. and too marxist. stressing the class word "bourgeoisie", stressing class dialectic. all that makes it odd for me, coming from another school. makes me wonder for whom he wrote it. looks like a nerd exercise sporting Walter Benjamin as gimmick. - another odd thing. can you give me some directions. where was it published, what context, what else they research at that institute. thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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