Phuket Crackdown On Russians Heads North

[ThailandNoob]

And how are they stealing Thai's jobs..... Are there any Thais living and working on Phuket who speak fluent Russian????????????????????????????????????

What a ridicules statement, do you not understand that ENGLISH is the WORLDS second language (this really pissed the French off) this is so the WORLD can communicate and why all countries teach English in schools

Read my post it will explain more for you.

English may or may not be the "world's second language" (that's another discussion), but the fact of the matter is that it is not spoken by a lot of the tourists coming from Russia and other CIS countries. Why shouldn't they have access to services in their own language if they're willing to pay for it? And to provide such services, Russian speakers are obviously required.

They have access to service in their own language in their own country.

When you want to see the world and understand something while you travel, learn a second language.

If Russians and any other non-Thai want to work in Thailand, obey the rules and get a workpermit first.

Why shouldn't they be able to access services in their native language as long as they're willing to pay? Granted it will be a really shallow experience for them, but that's their problem and no-one else's. If nothing else it will prop up the local economy.

I would have no problems with non English speaking Thais (the vast majority of the population of Thailand) coming on holiday to my home country and paying bilingual Thais to organise travel, accommodation and other services they need. I wouldn't see it as "taking our jobs" since Thai speaking farangs are in pretty short supply back home.

In a previous post in this thread, I've already talked about all the dysfunctionality and corruption in the work permit system in Thailand.

[NamKangMan]

<SNIP>

Or down...any Thai can find an illegal casino here - many lottery ticket sellers also sell illegal tickets or take bets against the number under the table. Most Thai parties end up with people playing silly betting games (with much worse odds than casinos usually). Casinos would be good news I think - ignoring the jobs and income, it would make it legal, allow for protected games and odds, and even force the owners to pay for Gamblers Anonymous like groups.

There are often trips to Burma etc to casinos for Thais, and other, groups - easy to spot in Mae Sai for example. The rich get real casinos anyway, the poor get screwed by the local underground "casino".

So, when "the poor" can go to a casino and play, what becomes of the gangs that WERE running the underground card games - they are now out of work. So, maybe they turn to selling drugs, robbing people etc etc.

Also, with proper casinos, the losses are potentially bigger, and they do not accept a house book or gold as security, so that means, the "loser" has to go out and steal to be able to go back to the casino to feed their addiction.

The only winner is the Government, and I bet the casino will have many "fingers in the cookie jar" before the Government gets their tax and profits.

Thailand has enough problems dealing with the vices they currently have and the social problems they cause.

I agree it's only a matter of time before Thailand has legal casinos. You are correct, there is a lot of money leaving the Thai economy to neighbouring countries through boarder casinos, also, direct flights to Macau.

I think they will would have to implement some sort of "gambling licence" for Thai's, most probably based on your income or a bank statement showing adequate funds.

So what you are saying is there is two alternatives, allow organised crime to run casinos or legitimate casinos to run them - and you are tending towards organised crime?

Sure, in a ideal world there would be no gambling problems - this isn't one, there are going to be problems with gamblers like there are with drunks and bars. Legislation can be used to make it illegal to serve drunks, and can also be used to maintain a banned list - and limit liability and debt (not just in the casinos but lenders too). The fact that all this can be circumvented with loan sharks etc is not an argument as that is a status quo - and always will be (even in supposedly less corrupt society there are payday loan companies with APR rates in the thousands).

No country can look at legislation from a point of view that it will be circumvented by corruption - they have to decide the law on its merits. I don't doubt palms will be greased, but right now they are also being greased and its illegal all the way up a down. At least with legal casinos laws can be put in place and license rules in an attempt to protect the public and users of the casino and even to raise taxes and support help groups - while it is underground none of that happens.

You are also assuming that the criminals running the casinos are NOT already running drugs etc - the more likely story is, however, that such people work for powerful unground groups that do all of these things - and illegal casinos/lottery fund a lot of it (which is likely the reason the big casino project which was discussed a few years back was thrown out).

Many people around the world are addicted to gambling.

Can you picture Thailand with "slot machines" or "poker machines?" They are highly addictive. People resort to crime to fund their gambling habit.

As far as who runs the casino, just look at the transport situation on Phuket, and who, and how, they run that. Casinos will be the same - it's all organsied crime, just legitimised by people in political power because they are receiving payment to do so.

In Thailand, if you have enough money, you can become the Prime Minister and run the country - what do you call that, a democracy???? :) :)

[wolf5370]

<SNIP>

Or down...any Thai can find an illegal casino here - many lottery ticket sellers also sell illegal tickets or take bets against the number under the table. Most Thai parties end up with people playing silly betting games (with much worse odds than casinos usually). Casinos would be good news I think - ignoring the jobs and income, it would make it legal, allow for protected games and odds, and even force the owners to pay for Gamblers Anonymous like groups.

There are often trips to Burma etc to casinos for Thais, and other, groups - easy to spot in Mae Sai for example. The rich get real casinos anyway, the poor get screwed by the local underground "casino".

So, when "the poor" can go to a casino and play, what becomes of the gangs that WERE running the underground card games - they are now out of work. So, maybe they turn to selling drugs, robbing people etc etc.

Also, with proper casinos, the losses are potentially bigger, and they do not accept a house book or gold as security, so that means, the "loser" has to go out and steal to be able to go back to the casino to feed their addiction.

The only winner is the Government, and I bet the casino will have many "fingers in the cookie jar" before the Government gets their tax and profits.

Thailand has enough problems dealing with the vices they currently have and the social problems they cause.

I agree it's only a matter of time before Thailand has legal casinos. You are correct, there is a lot of money leaving the Thai economy to neighbouring countries through boarder casinos, also, direct flights to Macau.

I think they will would have to implement some sort of "gambling licence" for Thai's, most probably based on your income or a bank statement showing adequate funds.

So what you are saying is there is two alternatives, allow organised crime to run casinos or legitimate casinos to run them - and you are tending towards organised crime?

Sure, in a ideal world there would be no gambling problems - this isn't one, there are going to be problems with gamblers like there are with drunks and bars. Legislation can be used to make it illegal to serve drunks, and can also be used to maintain a banned list - and limit liability and debt (not just in the casinos but lenders too). The fact that all this can be circumvented with loan sharks etc is not an argument as that is a status quo - and always will be (even in supposedly less corrupt society there are payday loan companies with APR rates in the thousands).

No country can look at legislation from a point of view that it will be circumvented by corruption - they have to decide the law on its merits. I don't doubt palms will be greased, but right now they are also being greased and its illegal all the way up a down. At least with legal casinos laws can be put in place and license rules in an attempt to protect the public and users of the casino and even to raise taxes and support help groups - while it is underground none of that happens.

You are also assuming that the criminals running the casinos are NOT already running drugs etc - the more likely story is, however, that such people work for powerful unground groups that do all of these things - and illegal casinos/lottery fund a lot of it (which is likely the reason the big casino project which was discussed a few years back was thrown out).

Many people around the world are addicted to gambling.

Can you picture Thailand with "slot machines" or "poker machines?" They are highly addictive. People resort to crime to fund their gambling habit.

As far as who runs the casino, just look at the transport situation on Phuket, and who, and how, they run that. Casinos will be the same - it's all organsied crime, just legitimised by people in political power because they are receiving payment to do so.

In Thailand, if you have enough money, you can become the Prime Minister and run the country - what do you call that, a democracy????

I don't call most (any) western democracies, a democracy either

I don't disagree, but the fact is there are already illegal casinos all over Thailand. There are already many with gambling addiction here. With it being illegal, what chances are that they will receive help? There is no way back - there is only forward.

The Phuket taxi mafia operates because it is allowed to - it is famous because it is exceptional - can't see tuktuks in Chiang Mai kicking out taxis and songtaews and hotels running their own transport and border runs. It starts with a step - legalise, legislate, tax and as Thailand, like so many countries before it, either falls into a wallowing pit of isolated corruption or wakes up and sorts out the overt corruption (and as a country grows and its people become wealthier and more educated/self educated this tends to happen) and bows to the pressure of the people. Thailand is a long way from this right now, we know - and legislation would perhaps be no more than a sticking plaster hiding the wound, but its better than letting the wound fester.

It's all moot really as too many powerful people like the status quo (not the band) - and the people are not yet ready to change that. Time will tell I guess.

[NamKangMan]

@ wolf5370

An idea could be that Thailand does like Vietnam, build casinos, but only foreigners are allowed in, not Vietnamese. This way, they get the tourists and expat money, and do not take money from Vietnamese Nationals.

Of course, the underground gambling will still be here, but nothing much can be done about that due to corruption.

Still, I think it's wrong that a wealthy Thai has to leave their own country just for some recreational gambling, when foreigners have this service available to them. That's why I suggested a "gambling licence" for Thai's. You have to prove income or maybe have 500,000 baht in a bank account, then you qualify for the licence and are allowed into a casino in Thailand.

[FritsSikkink]

english is the second leguage because so easy that nearly a monkey can learn, more than 1.000.000.000 speaks russian,

No, less than 300.000.000

At the end of USSR in 91 the population was just a wee bit under 300.000.000 Now, 2 decades later, it's surely a lot more than that... Besides, as I mentioned there were some other countries outside of URRS (Bosnia, Slovakia, Ugoslavia, etc. sp???) that were teaching Russian in schools as a second language. All Slovenian languages have something in common and people can communicate with each other in Russian. If folks in those countries don't learn English they could use Russian services when coming here so stop this nonsense about English being world's language and about tourist having to learn English and about no need for Russian speaking folks here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_language

[Shurup]

So what are you saying? Your link only confirms and adds to what I've already said.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_language

[vijer]

Come on, do you really think the BiB is going to put much effort into this operation? The BiB care little about enforcing the law, their only concern is where they can collect extra money. I guess if these Russians are making money they will be happy to pay a bit of tea money.

I have this image of the BiB standing at some stupid place in the road, flapping their hands at the Russians. Everyday in BKK the BiB come out at rush hour and stand in the most absurd places and flap their hands. I want to tell them, "hey idiot, drivers never stop here you don't need to wave them on, try going out and stopping the a_holes who make turns from three lanes over".

[Thairish273]

True there are alot of Russians here,most of them ill mannered and impolite to the Thai people.

Maybe that's actually the brunt of it all.

Taking locals jobs?......but it's ok for uneducated thai women to hook up with a farang, go to europe and take all the "LOCAL JOBS" that were traditionally student jobs for local people.

Hang on until i check Thai language for global village !!..lol

[FritsSikkink]

So what are you saying? Your link only confirms and adds to what I've already said.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_language

Not if you read more then two lines:

Recent estimates of the total number of speakers of Russian

Source Native speakers Native rank Total speakers Total rank

"Top Languages",Language Monthly, 160,000,000 8 285,000,000 5

World Almanac (1999) 145,000,000 8 (2005) 275,000,000 5

SIL (2000 WCD) 145,000,000 8 255,000,000 5–6 (tied with Arabic) CIA World Factbook (2005) 160,000,000 8

Edited March 28, 2013 by FritsSikkink

[GeckosDiving]

so many comments with reference to thais not being able to speak russian, surely the russians should learn to speak thai!

isn't that part of the adventure of going to a foreign country, or should they come over on a russian flight, board a russian tour bus, go to a russian hotel, eat in russian restaurants then go home.

I've visited over 50 countries and at least half of them have their own language. With your logic I should be able to speak 25 languages in order to get what I want. Why would Russians want to learn Thai? Its a pointless language to learn and completely useless outside of Thailand. They want to their beach, bars, pizza restaurants and cheap tailors for their holidays. Not everyone wants to have an 'adventure' on their relaxing holiday in the sun. They have no more interest in learning Thai than I had learning Flemish when I passed through Belgium once.

And the peanut keeps rolling around in the head !! I've went to other countries and have run into Thai's and have talked to them and it was great to talk Thai to them ! But your thinking I should have just told them to piss off because it's a pointless language ! MOG why would anyone would want to TRY and speak the language of the country your visiting Oh and I'll tell my daughter (Thai) to stop learning her pointless language because it's completely useless !

[Shurup]

So what are you saying? Your link only confirms and adds to what I've already said.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_language

Not if you read more then two lines:

Recent estimates of the total number of speakers of Russian

Source Native speakers Native rank Total speakers Total rank

"Top Languages",Language Monthly, 160,000,000 8 285,000,000 5

World Almanac (1999) 145,000,000 8 (2005) 275,000,000 5

SIL (2000 WCD) 145,000,000 8 255,000,000 5–6 (tied with Arabic) CIA World Factbook (2005) 160,000,000 8

What's your point? You're trying to show for how many Russian is a native language? I'm not disagreeing with these numbers but they're not conclusive. I was saying that every ex-USSR country still has lots of Russian speaking people and it doesn't mean that Russian is an official language in there. USSR collapsed just 2 decades ago and will be quite a few more decades until Russian dies out in those countries. It's a wild guess but I'm thinking number of Russian speakers (not necessarily native speakers) is around a half a billion if not a lot more.

[FritsSikkink]

So what are you saying? Your link only confirms and adds to what I've already said.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_language

Not if you read more then two lines:

Recent estimates of the total number of speakers of Russian

Source Native speakers Native rank Total speakers Total rank

"Top Languages",Language Monthly, 160,000,000 8 285,000,000 5

World Almanac (1999) 145,000,000 8 (2005) 275,000,000 5

SIL (2000 WCD) 145,000,000 8 255,000,000 5–6 (tied with Arabic) CIA World Factbook (2005) 160,000,000 8

What's your point? You're trying to show for how many Russian is a native language? I'm not disagreeing with these numbers but they're not conclusive. I was saying that every ex-USSR country still has lots of Russian speaking people and it doesn't mean that Russian is an official language in there. USSR collapsed just 2 decades ago and will be quite a few more decades until Russian dies out in those countries. It's a wild guess but I'm thinking number of Russian speakers (not necessarily native speakers) is around a half a billion if not a lot more.

Start to feel like a school teacher.

There are 2 colums, 1 for native = 160.000 and 1 for TOTAL speakers = 285.000

[Shurup]

OK, my bad. The numbers hovever based on only those countries that were part of the union. Add other Slavic countries that were not in the USSR but could understand and communicate in Russian, so here's another 100,000,000 and then on top of everything the data is from 2011, it will be higher now.

This is a useless argument however, the point is, a lot of Russians are holidaying in Thailand and if everyone on TV is making a noise about them, that means there are really a lot of them. Regardless of if everyone likes them or not, I see no reason why they couldn't be provided services in their native language. I said it already, if I was taking ab annual 2 weeks holiday in X country, I wouldn't bother to learn the X language. Now all of you calling them lazy for not learning English, how about you tell us about your Thai language skills, surely if you live here or were coming here for decades, you should be able to carry on a conversation in Thai with locals?

[Joe Mamma]

The Russian immigrants trying to work here are a magnet for more Russians to emigrate here for work, and the tourist % of Russians will keep soaring.

So i might need to learn Russian and Chinese now. The Thais can bend only so much for the Farang and a backlash is eminent! The Farang here is already getting unpopular! Thanks Boris.

[Tomtomtom69]

And how are they stealing Thai's jobs..... Are there any Thais living and working on Phuket who speak fluent Russian????????????????????????????????????

"Are there any Thais living and working on Phuket who speak fluent Russian?" - No, but ALL Thai's expect ALL Russians to speak fluent English - how's that going to work for the tourism industry here?

Why should they speak English? They have their own market and they're entitled to just speak Russian if they want. These days I get approached by Russians speaking Russian to me everywhere from Vietnam (Mui Ne and Nha Trang) to Suvarnabhumi Airport, I really think I need to learn Russian. The Chinese are the same...they don't speak English, but why should they? With 1.3 billion people speaking the same language I don't see the need. We should speak their language...

[Tomtomtom69]

GeckosDiving, on 29 Mar 2013 - 01:18, said:

Kananga, on 27 Mar 2013 - 16:10, said:

BusyBee123, on 27 Mar 2013 - 16:07, said:

so many comments with reference to thais not being able to speak russian, surely the russians should learn to speak thai!

isn't that part of the adventure of going to a foreign country, or should they come over on a russian flight, board a russian tour bus, go to a russian hotel, eat in russian restaurants then go home.

I've visited over 50 countries and at least half of them have their own language. With your logic I should be able to speak 25 languages in order to get what I want. Why would Russians want to learn Thai? Its a pointless language to learn and completely useless outside of Thailand. They want to their beach, bars, pizza restaurants and cheap tailors for their holidays. Not everyone wants to have an 'adventure' on their relaxing holiday in the sun. They have no more interest in learning Thai than I had learning Flemish when I passed through Belgium once.

And the peanut keeps rolling around in the head !! I've went to other countries and have run into Thai's and have talked to them and it was great to talk Thai to them ! But your thinking I should have just told them to piss off because it's a pointless language ! MOG why would anyone would want to TRY and speak the language of the country your visiting Oh and I'll tell my daughter (Thai) to stop learning her pointless language because it's completely useless !

You need to get out more. Thai is widely spoken and understood throughout Laos, to some extent along the Malaysian border, in western Cambodia, Shan State of Myanmar as well as other border regions including eastern Kayin State of Myanmar (both of which have similar languages to Thai, more similar to Thai than to Burmese) and even the Sipsongbanna region of Yunnan province of China - the locals in the villages speak Dai, which is similar to Thai and they are more comfortable speaking Dai than they are speaking Chinese. So it seems that Thai is not that useless after all. Also, what's so hard about a tourist buying a phrasebook and using that to communicate? Fine, if they can find someone who can speak their language but isn't travelling also about the little things like learning each other's language?

[iSabai]

And how are they stealing Thai's jobs..... Are there any Thais living and working on Phuket who speak fluent Russian????????????????????????????????????

"Are there any Thais living and working on Phuket who speak fluent Russian?" - No, but ALL Thai's expect ALL Russians to speak fluent English - how's that going to work for the tourism industry here?

Why should they speak English? They have their own market and they're entitled to just speak Russian if they want. These days I get approached by Russians speaking Russian to me everywhere from Vietnam (Mui Ne and Nha Trang) to Suvarnabhumi Airport, I really think I need to learn Russian. The Chinese are the same...they don't speak English, but why should they? With 1.3 billion people speaking the same language I don't see the need. We should speak their language...

Yes, this may all be very true TTT69. They are entitled to speak Russian if they want, and they should expect that they will NOT be understood by anyone too, except other Russian speakers. Simple fact is that in Thailand they speak Thai first, and in many cases some English second.

Should Russians have to learn Thai, or learn English? No. Should they expect to have communication problems? Yes!

[KarenBravo]

What a load of baloney.

It is incumbent on the person, or organization that want to do business and make money from the Russians to learn their language. It's not the customer's responsibility to learn the language of the person they will be making richer.

Anyway, who ever heard of someone going on a two week holiday to a foreign country having to learn the language?

Learning "please" and "thank-you" is always a good idea, but to learn enough to be functional would take far to long and is impractical in the extreme.

You want the Russian's money? You learn to communicate with them.

Edited March 29, 2013 by KarenBravo

[BlackJack]

Walking around and seeing Russian signs everywhere I suddenly wonder where am I?

This is not Thailand

[NamKangMan]

What a load of baloney.

It is incumbent on the person, or organization that want to do business and make money from the Russians to learn their language. It's not the customer's responsibility to learn the language of the person they will be making richer.

Anyway, who ever heard of someone going on a two week holiday to a foreign country having to learn the language?

Learning "please" and "thank-you" is always a good idea, but to learn enough to be functional would take far to long and is impractical in the extreme.

You want the Russian's money? You learn to communicate with them.

I agree KB.

All I would add is, "You want the Russian money? You learn to communicate with them." OR allow the the employment of someone who can.

Edited March 29, 2013 by NamKangMan

[FritsSikkink]

OK, my bad. The numbers hovever based on only those countries that were part of the union. Add other Slavic countries that were not in the USSR but could understand and communicate in Russian, so here's another 100,000,000 and then on top of everything the data is from 2011, it will be higher now.

This is a useless argument however, the point is, a lot of Russians are holidaying in Thailand and if everyone on TV is making a noise about them, that means there are really a lot of them. Regardless of if everyone likes them or not, I see no reason why they couldn't be provided services in their native language. I said it already, if I was taking ab annual 2 weeks holiday in X country, I wouldn't bother to learn the X language. Now all of you calling them lazy for not learning English, how about you tell us about your Thai language skills, surely if you live here or were coming here for decades, you should be able to carry on a conversation in Thai with locals?

I speak Dutch, English, German, French, Thai (also read/write) and a bit of Spanish.

[SiggiCM]

of course there are Russian sign, same like english and thai, because Russia not use latin letter and no thai letters,

same like western people expect that signs on street and in restaurants are in latin letters, russian can expect in the hotspots, where

thousands of russians make holiday are also russians signs,

[Tomtomtom69]

This is good. It's never a good idea to have one ethnic group take over another country. Before the Russians, we had a mix from all over the world. It's getting like Little Russia here in Pattaya too. I want Thailand to remain Thai.

St Pattayasburg is more like it.

Nothing wrong with a bit of diversity, even if that means some Russians. In my experience in Vietnam (sorry but I am not very familiar with Pattaya or Phuket, not my kind of places but I have been there, just don't go more than I need to) but Mui Ne and Nha Trang, with just as many if not more Russians than Pattaya (and there are definitely more Russian signs and restaurant menus etc. in these 2 Vietnamese towns than in Pattaya, where I saw no more than a couple of signs in Russian when I was there) I find that the Russians keep to themselves, they don't talk with other foreigners (or even each other) much but well, like that makes them much different from other foreigners. It's not like British, Americans or Australians walk down the street saying: "hi, fellow foreigner, can you speak English?" Me: "yes", Fellow American/Australian etc.: "wow, that's amazing, now what are the chances of meeting another foreigner in of all places, Thailand that can speak English! Let's be friends now!"

Sorry guys, but that doesn't happen.

If anything I have been approached by Russians who thought I was Russian and could therefore speak their language, but no other foreigners have ever talked to me in Pattaya, Bangkok etc. except in very exceptional and rare circumstances so I don't see how these other foreigners are friendlier than the Russians...in my experience this is usually not the case.

[Tomtomtom69]

And how are they stealing Thai's jobs..... Are there any Thais living and working on Phuket who speak fluent Russian????????????????????????????????????

"Are there any Thais living and working on Phuket who speak fluent Russian?" - No, but ALL Thai's expect ALL Russians to speak fluent English - how's that going to work for the tourism industry here?

Why should they speak English? They have their own market and they're entitled to just speak Russian if they want. These days I get approached by Russians speaking Russian to me everywhere from Vietnam (Mui Ne and Nha Trang) to Suvarnabhumi Airport, I really think I need to learn Russian. The Chinese are the same...they don't speak English, but why should they? With 1.3 billion people speaking the same language I don't see the need. We should speak their language...

Yes, this may all be very true TTT69. They are entitled to speak Russian if they want, and they should expect that they will NOT be understood by anyone too, except other Russian speakers. Simple fact is that in Thailand they speak Thai first, and in many cases some English second.

Should Russians have to learn Thai, or learn English? No. Should they expect to have communication problems? Yes!

Yes I know what you are saying when it comes to communication problems if they can't speak Thai or English - but I find that the Thai attitude is foreigner = speaks English. This is an outdated and may I say even slightly discriminatory attitude that needs to be corrected. Now with China emerging as a global power, Chinese is rightfully emerging as a second global language. Russian is like the China of Europe it seems. Now if there are that many Russians in Thailand, why aren't more locals intending on working in the tourist industry in these areas (Pattaya and Phuket) learning Russian? In Vietnam, I found a number of locals in tourism who were learning Russian (although they could also speak some English too) and why not? With like more than half of all tourists in Mui Ne/Nha Trang of Russian origin, only offering English would get them nowhere. It's the same with Chinese tourists - not many can speak English. Any tourism operator that can cater to them in their language is going to make it big with them. If only English is available - the Chinese don't come.

[iSabai]

Why should they speak English? They have their own market and they're entitled to just speak Russian if they want. These days I get approached by Russians speaking Russian to me everywhere from Vietnam (Mui Ne and Nha Trang) to Suvarnabhumi Airport, I really think I need to learn Russian. The Chinese are the same...they don't speak English, but why should they? With 1.3 billion people speaking the same language I don't see the need. We should speak their language...

Yes, this may all be very true TTT69. They are entitled to speak Russian if they want, and they should expect that they will NOT be understood by anyone too, except other Russian speakers. Simple fact is that in Thailand they speak Thai first, and in many cases some English second.

Should Russians have to learn Thai, or learn English? No. Should they expect to have communication problems? Yes!

Yes I know what you are saying when it comes to communication problems if they can't speak Thai or English - but I find that the Thai attitude is foreigner = speaks English. This is an outdated and may I say even slightly discriminatory attitude that needs to be corrected. Now with China emerging as a global power, Chinese is rightfully emerging as a second global language. Russian is like the China of Europe it seems. Now if there are that many Russians in Thailand, why aren't more locals intending on working in the tourist industry in these areas (Pattaya and Phuket) learning Russian? In Vietnam, I found a number of locals in tourism who were learning Russian (although they could also speak some English too) and why not? With like more than half of all tourists in Mui Ne/Nha Trang of Russian origin, only offering English would get them nowhere. It's the same with Chinese tourists - not many can speak English. Any tourism operator that can cater to them in their language is going to make it big with them. If only English is available - the Chinese don't come.

English may seem "outdated" now Tom(x3), (though I don't necessarily believe that). And ideally yes, learning Chinese and Russian would benefit the tourism industry and workforce here.

But the reality is that the vast majority of the tourism workforce here is uneducated, or under-educated at best. How many programs in Phuket are set up where Thais can go to learn even basic Russian/Chinese? Is there even anyone able to train them, and how many are able to learn?

Have Thai tourism companies sought out, or asked for a program where their workers can be trained to deal with Russian/Chinese tourists? Have Russian/Chinese tourism officials offered help to train Thais in the tourism industry to deal with their people? Some understanding and cooperation needed here.

Even if there were training programs set up, instant results cannot be expected. It is no more reasonable to expect that Thais will learn Russian/Chinese overnight, than it is to expect Russians/Chinese to learn Thai/English overnight.

Sorting out these problems is far beyond my job description. It's easy to say "things should be like this, or shouldn't be like that". But getting productive results involves planning, effort, time, cooperation amongst all involved, and patience.

[osten]

oh those so so poor Thais, my heart bleeds for them ...one day they will have to wake up and see the BIG PICTURE, Thailand a Country of Fools always being mistreated the more i stay here the more contempt I have for these dumb fools.

Let me get this straight. You read this forum, which is focused on Thailand, yet you spew such contempt and hatred for the people.

Go find a forum that discusses your own, far superior country.

[Phronesis]

GeckosDiving, on 29 Mar 2013 - 01:18, said:

Kananga, on 27 Mar 2013 - 16:10, said:

BusyBee123, on 27 Mar 2013 - 16:07, said:

so many comments with reference to thais not being able to speak russian, surely the russians should learn to speak thai!

isn't that part of the adventure of going to a foreign country, or should they come over on a russian flight, board a russian tour bus, go to a russian hotel, eat in russian restaurants then go home.

I've visited over 50 countries and at least half of them have their own language. With your logic I should be able to speak 25 languages in order to get what I want. Why would Russians want to learn Thai? Its a pointless language to learn and completely useless outside of Thailand. They want to their beach, bars, pizza restaurants and cheap tailors for their holidays. Not everyone wants to have an 'adventure' on their relaxing holiday in the sun. They have no more interest in learning Thai than I had learning Flemish when I passed through Belgium once.

And the peanut keeps rolling around in the head !! I've went to other countries and have run into Thai's and have talked to them and it was great to talk Thai to them ! But your thinking I should have just told them to piss off because it's a pointless language ! MOG why would anyone would want to TRY and speak the language of the country your visiting Oh and I'll tell my daughter (Thai) to stop learning her pointless language because it's completely useless !

You need to get out more. Thai is widely spoken and understood throughout Laos, to some extent along the Malaysian border, in western Cambodia, Shan State of Myanmar as well as other border regions including eastern Kayin State of Myanmar (both of which have similar languages to Thai, more similar to Thai than to Burmese) and even the Sipsongbanna region of Yunnan province of China - the locals in the villages speak Dai, which is similar to Thai and they are more comfortable speaking Dai than they are speaking Chinese. So it seems that Thai is not that useless after all. Also, what's so hard about a tourist buying a phrasebook and using that to communicate? Fine, if they can find someone who can speak their language but isn't travelling also about the little things like learning each other's language?

I speak, read and write Thai...and my argument is that it is a completely useless language INSIDE of Thailand.

[Tomtomtom69]

I speak, read and write Thai...and my argument is that it is a completely useless language INSIDE of Thailand.

Really? How so? BTW I also speak, read and write Thai...

[TechnikaIII]

I have zero sympathy if they break the laws by hiring foreigners to work illegally whether they be maids from myanmar, construction workers from Cambodia or Russian travel agents/motorbike rental shop people. Follow the laws or pay the penalty.

Except that the people from Myanmar and Cambodia blend in, as they are ethnically brothers and sisters.

The Russians are by comparison ugly mannered people. Some of you say they are bringing in money, yes but for whom? The Russian business owners, legal or otherwise are certainly not philanthropists. The bulk of the money goes into the Russian pocket. The Russians they attract to Phuket do nothing for Thailand. But are a burden on Thailands resources. They should bring there own drinking water, and take home their sewerage.

[Escapologist]

...

Please tell me how it is racism towards the Thai people as a whole to criticise one organisation (or cluster of organisations depending on how you look at it). I am merely pointing out that their bureaucracy (which only employs a small segment of the population) is both riddled with both dysfunctionality and corruption. People with degrees teaching at government universities but not being able to get work permits is solid evidence of the first. Legitimate businesses having to pay backhanders to Immigration officials is solid evidence of the second.

I speak pretty fluent Thai and am friends with a lot of ordinary, regular Thai people, none of whom play any role in what I am describing other than that of victim. Many of them have experienced issues similar to what I describe when they deal with bureaucracy themselves. I have heard enough first-hand accounts from enough people about enough facets of Thai bureaucracy to convince me that there is a systemic problem here.

And if it is racism for me to highlight the lack of Russian speakers in Thailand, then I must be guilty of racism towards my home country as well, since I will readily admit that very few people there even know what the Cyrillic alphabet is. As such, if it ever experienced a sudden influx of monolingual Russian speaking tourists, then I would think it completely reasonable to allow Russian speakers to come from overseas and work providing services to these tourists in their own language. I don't have a problem with tourists spending a few weeks in a country where they can't speak the language, as long as they are prepared to pay a premium to access services delivered in their own language (organising these would cost more than services in the local language, which needs to be built into the cost).

The problem you appear to have, ThailandNoob, is that, despite living in Bangkok for a year, you appear not to have recognised the ideological divide between your gracious hosts and the country from which you came. The language of the multicultural orthodoxy of Western socialist elites ("racist", "xenophobic", etc) has no currency in Thailand where there is no illogical dependency on mass-immigration to prop up rampant welfarism. Thais exhibit the kind of racial consciousness which used to be the norm in Western societies prior to their being engulfed by the socialist disease. The bottom line is that it is up to the Thais, and the Thais alone, to decide who they want living in their country. If they pay an economic penalty for ejecting some of their more incompatible guests then that is a price that they, and they alone, will pay. It is not an issue for indoctrinated foreign university students to decide.