Yingluck Defends Using High-Speed Trains Network For Perishable Goods

[Bluespunk]

1. Trains are recognized and accepted as a much more efficient form of cargo transport.

The amount of cargo that a train can move compared to a truck makes the train more energy efficient. This also means less pollution and a lower per unit use of a fossil fuel which must be imported into Thailand.

2. The cargo carriers have a vested interest in protecting their lucrative trucking business.

3. Per tonne of cargo shipped, there is reportedly less spoilage and less stock shrinkage with rail , resulting in a higher delivery rate of the produce shipped. A lower loss of cargo means that fewer losses are passed on to the consumer.

4. Much of the perishable cargo is shipped into large cities to feed consumers. It is rather obvious, that anything that can be done to reduce traffic congestion and reduce the number of big trucks on the roads into the big cities is both practical and responsible.

It seems to me that the people ridiculing the use of high speed trains for perishables may fall into one of the following categories;

1. Have a vested interest in the trucking industry,

2. Haven't the slightest clue as to the benefits of high speed rail,

3. The usual group of losers that have an obsession with denigrating the PM and insulting the government.

I am surprised some of the farang critics aren't falling over themselves with joy as rail transport of perishables is a cornerstone of perishable cargo transport in North America. How do these geniuses consider the option in Thailand bad, but are oblivious to the use of the rail mode in North America.

Number 3 pretty well covers it.....if she announced free beer and free barfines for all farangs the TV keyboard nattering nabobs of negativity would find something to bitch about.

while their is criticism of yingluck here, the OP is about presumably Thai netziens having a pop at her parliament speech. so not just us non Thais who can see this wasn't the best example of the benefits of a high speed rail network.

[bigbamboo]

Some info on EURO CAREX:

http://www.rff.fr/en/gestion-page-d-accueil-en/news/euro-carex-a-european-high-speed-freight-project

EURO CAREX aims to create, by 2017, a rail service allowing for a modal

shift away from truck transport and short-haul and medium-haul flights

towards the existing rail network for the transporting of goods (in

containers and air pallets).

This service is intended for distances of between 300 and 800 km. It will also make it possible to limit carbon emissions.

This project involves the creation of air and rail terminals connected

to high-speed rail lines, and in constant contact with airport

installations, and the conception of a service adapted to the particular

logistics chain and transport plan.

A couple of points: One it is still in the set-up phase & is about 4 years away from completion.

It's for at least distances of 300km & will be using the existing high-speed rails but is very much secondary to passenger traffic.

A final point:

It is pie-in-the-sky for Thailand.

Please no pies in the sky. We've enough problems with the 'dust' in Chiang Mai.

[khunken]

There is a big push to lower the transport costs of produce out of the far east into Europe, one such method is the movement of freight by rail, less expensive than air, quicker than sea, Thailand deserves to be linked into a network that offers these choices. By the way you don't need to go to wiki to verify my statement the train freight transit method is already being marketed.

Total rubbish. There is no rail links from Thailand to Europe. There are no high-speed trains between Thailand & Europe (except in the wrong parts of China). Yes, a slow-to-medium speed rail link to Europe can be connected up fairly easily.

This thread is about high-speed trains being used to transport perishables to market. It is a huge waste of money and an awfully stupid defence of the 'idea'.

[Mitker]

Can't Thailand just have a normal PM with a normal government running a normal budget to implement a normal rail network?

Does it always have to be this kind of nonsensical, doomed-to-fail projects?

[ZhouZhou]

As a former long term employee of BNSF railway in america I think I can debunk most of this bs about high speed rail for commodities. First of all rail freight is never high speed due to the costs involved, trains schedules are categorized due to shipping priority,coal and grain are low on the scale while consumer and industrial goods rate higher. The fastest trains (not talking speed, but delivery time) are intermodal, truck trailers on rail cars. Rail is mainly used for bulk commodity shipments that trucks cannot haul long distance cost effectively. Thailand is too small a country and economy to spend this kind of money on high speed rail (even for passengers). The money would be much better spent upgrading the rail system and equipment, allowing economic growth along with lower transportation costs.

yes. that got the member wrong. the USA is not leading when it comes to high speed freight trains. they don't have it.

but because the USA doesn't have it it means not that is nonsense.

give the poster some credit that he wanted to be little bit proud and boost about how advanced the USA is.

[473geo]

There is a big push to lower the transport costs of produce out of the far east into Europe, one such method is the movement of freight by rail, less expensive than air, quicker than sea, Thailand deserves to be linked into a network that offers these choices. By the way you don't need to go to wiki to verify my statement the train freight transit method is already being marketed.

Total rubbish. There is no rail links from Thailand to Europe. There are no high-speed trains between Thailand & Europe (except in the wrong parts of China). Yes, a slow-to-medium speed rail link to Europe can be connected up fairly easily.

This thread is about high-speed trains being used to transport perishables to market. It is a huge waste of money and an awfully stupid defence of the 'idea'.

You really need to step back, read and absorb Ken..red mist is coming down when you see a post from me...not good Ken...not good at all....goodnight

[americaninbangkok]

Can't Thailand just have a normal PM with a normal government running a normal budget to implement a normal rail network?

Does it always have to be this kind of nonsensical, doomed-to-fail projects?

Regrettably... yes...

Hopewell project

Skybridges

Makassan station

[KRS1]

using high speed rail will centralize the transport of goods and create a monopoly.

it will not work.

[Ian Curtis]

Vegetables - but what about the wheelchairs

[VinoLink]

Hi-speed trains only hit true "hi-speed" over longer distances, i.e., they don't just start at 300 km/h... they gradually rev up to this speed. Thailand is a small country. Therefore, there will be a very limited # of routes where the benefits of hi-speed trains will be realized.

And now little sister wants to have produce markets at the terminii of these routes? Idiot!

Why not just hi-speed every citizen to the farm and back?

Stupid? Yes!

Stupider than little sis' idea? Open to debate.

The TGV in France speeds up very quickly. I catch them regularly. On leaving a dedicated high-speed station (ie Avignon TGV), it is at full speed (300km/hr) within two minutes. Thailand is not too small for high speed trains. Indeed, with many flat plains between population centers it is ideal for this sort of system.

[OzMick]

HSR for vegetables is so 22nd century passe. Why doesn't Yingluk propose electronic transfer?

[attento]

Message to all Politicians. Don't use social network sites to make political statements. Better still, dont use social network sites at all. To easy to make hasty and ill considered views public. Leave the PR to the PR people, and you have them to blame when a mistake occurs.

[MikeOboe57]

Message to all Politicians. Don't use social network sites to make political statements. Better still, dont use social network sites at all. To easy to make hasty and ill considered views public. Leave the PR to the PR people, and you have them to blame when a mistake occurs.

Especially when you are as qualified for your job as Yingluck.

[Soupdragon]

Message to all Politicians. Don't use social network sites to make political statements. Better still, dont use social network sites at all. To easy to make hasty and ill considered views public. Leave the PR to the PR people, and you have them to blame when a mistake occurs.

Message to all politicians. Do use social network sites to make political statements. That way we can see what is really on your mind and see your thought processes before the PR people massage them into something that may mask your incompetence. This will allow the people who vote for you to see the real you. That way they won't make the same mistake of voting for you ever again.

[Jerrytheyoung]

High speed trains are very competitive on short to medium distance (roughly up to 1000km). Over this range, aviation is still very competitive: it is the reason why in large Countries like USA or Australia the High Speed trains are not developped. But for Thailand, as Europe or Japan, we are in the range of competiveness. It is not stupid to transport some quickly perishable products like sea fishes, shells, or some derivatives of farming which need to be delivered quickly kept in cold containers particularly in a hot Country like Thailand.

[Thai at Heart]

High speed trains are very competitive on short to medium distance (roughly up to 1000km). Over this range, aviation is still very competitive: it is the reason why in large Countries like USA or Australia the High Speed trains are not developped. But for Thailand, as Europe or Japan, we are in the range of competiveness. It is not stupid to transport some quickly perishable products like sea fishes, shells, or some derivatives of farming which need to be delivered quickly kept in cold containers particularly in a hot Country like Thailand.

I love the idea of the HSR, but, if the plan is to carry perishables, it is going down the wrong path anyway. Very valuable persihables go by refrigerated container already.

I wonder if she knows what percentage they lose between factory and port already, because nothing is much more than a days drive from the port here anyway.

Now moving bulk goods on an upgraded domestic two line domestic system would make a lot of sense. When you see the thousands of trucks in front of the sugar factories, you have to concude that this can't be cost effective, but there are so many sugar factories around, how many of them are going to have direct access to the rail line? All of this said, the regional trucking bunch are some of the most politically powerful people anyway, hence why there hasn't been any investment in the domestic rail system for so long anyway, so if anyone dares to start thinking of moving rice or sugar around by rail, there will be a lot of brown envelopes flying around to stop it.

[Ricardo]

One high-speed rail application which perhaps would appeal to the current legal P.M., is to speed-up the delivery of high-so high-cost high-fashion items to market, after all things go out-of-fashion so rapidly that these are clearly time-sensitive !

Rural-Thailand might become a Hub (that dreaded word looms once more) of Production for High-Fashion Goods, under her/PTP's transport-infrastructure plans, speeding desperately-needed handbags & silk-goods to the eagerly-awaiting shopping-malls & consumers of the capital !

[Thai at Heart]

Just saw the map on the front page of the other paper.

The high speed lines aren't going to reach all the way up through Isaan, but the dual lines will go all the way through to Nongkhai. The high speed line will go as far as Chiangmai, but the dual track will only go as far as Denchai.

Sounds sort of logical, but would have loved to have HSR going past the front door. Guess will have to transit in Korat.

[geriatrickid]

kid" Even if you include small grains your comment about railroads being the cornerstone of perishable shipping in the US may be somewhat out of date. In fact many miles of track has been taken out of service in the past few decades with the highway and air being chosen quickest for door to door delivery.

Canada is the largest market for US agricultural frsh produce exports. Most of the fresh produce is shipped by intermodal methods truck, to train to truck. Mexican fresh produce is usually trucked in to a rail center in the US and then transferred to trains to make its way to northern US and the Canadian markets. Many Europeans come from relatively small countries (land size) with high density populations and attempt to apply the transportation systems that work for that characteristic.

Thailand should have moved to rail cargo a long time ago. However, the emphasis upon trucking is due to the same reasons why the truck carrier lobby in the EU, USA & Canada has always tried to undermine rail transport. Railways haven't had the same deep pocketed lobbyists ( truck manufacturers & suppliers, oil companies, logistic companies) as the trucking lobby.

[geriatrickid]

One high-speed rail application which perhaps would appeal to the current legal P.M., is to speed-up the delivery of high-so high-cost high-fashion items to market, after all things go out-of-fashion so rapidly that these are clearly time-sensitive !

Rural-Thailand might become a Hub (that dreaded word looms once more) of Production for High-Fashion Goods, under her/PTP's transport-infrastructure plans, speeding desperately-needed handbags & silk-goods to the eagerly-awaiting shopping-malls & consumers of the capital !

Your comment is not particularly amusing. Rather, it speaks to a condescending ignorance and bias.

The PM's attempt to promote an energy efficient mode of transport that will benefit Thailand, is laudable. It is the correct position and one that is supported by the current transport conditions in Thailand. Instead, all you can do is offer up an infantile comment.

Yes, the PM has money. If you are jealous or are resentful, that's your cross to bear. I, and millions of other people have no resentment to the PM being wealthy. Good for her. The PM doesn't need a train to bring her fashion products, ok.

[geriatrickid]

Can't Thailand just have a normal PM with a normal government running a normal budget to implement a normal rail network?

Does it always have to be this kind of nonsensical, doomed-to-fail projects?

Indeed. I'm sure that had TVF been around when the BTS was in the planning stage, we would have been treated to a "doomed to fail" commentary as well.

Bet, you would have said the same thing about the US plan to go to the moon too.

[rubl]

So, did we already all agree that high-speed rail links to 'also' be used for transporting perishable goods is not really a good idea?

[PETERTHEEATER]

The Bangkok Post front page dated 29 March 13 reported that the PM being quizzed by the opposition on the planned projects requiring the 2 trillion baht loan stated that the projects would generate 500,000 new jobs each year for seven years.

Any government that can make 9000 plus new jobs per week available for their population would be voted in for life! Since the projects include the hi-speed rail and Dawei port many of the jobs would be taken by the other involved countries.

[bigbamboo]

One high-speed rail application which perhaps would appeal to the current legal P.M., is to speed-up the delivery of high-so high-cost high-fashion items to market, after all things go out-of-fashion so rapidly that these are clearly time-sensitive !

Rural-Thailand might become a Hub (that dreaded word looms once more) of Production for High-Fashion Goods, under her/PTP's transport-infrastructure plans, speeding desperately-needed handbags & silk-goods to the eagerly-awaiting shopping-malls & consumers of the capital !

Your comment is not particularly amusing. Rather, it speaks to a condescending ignorance and bias.

The PM's attempt to promote an energy efficient mode of transport that will benefit Thailand, is laudable. It is the correct position and one that is supported by the current transport conditions in Thailand. Instead, all you can do is offer up an infantile comment.

Yes, the PM has money. If you are jealous or are resentful, that's your cross to bear. I, and millions of other people have no resentment to the PM being wealthy. Good for her. The PM doesn't need a train to bring her fashion products, ok.

Quite right. She has overseas trips for that.

In fact it's perfectly possibly that the high speed trains will be used for fruit and veg runs. with the rich still preferring to fly and the poor choosing the much cheaper bus.

[Ricardo]

One high-speed rail application which perhaps would appeal to the current legal P.M., is to speed-up the delivery of high-so high-cost high-fashion items to market, after all things go out-of-fashion so rapidly that these are clearly time-sensitive !

Rural-Thailand might become a Hub (that dreaded word looms once more) of Production for High-Fashion Goods, under her/PTP's transport-infrastructure plans, speeding desperately-needed handbags & silk-goods to the eagerly-awaiting shopping-malls & consumers of the capital !

Your comment is not particularly amusing. Rather, it speaks to a condescending ignorance and bias.

The PM's attempt to promote an energy efficient mode of transport that will benefit Thailand, is laudable. It is the correct position and one that is supported by the current transport conditions in Thailand. Instead, all you can do is offer up an infantile comment.

Yes, the PM has money. If you are jealous or are resentful, that's your cross to bear. I, and millions of other people have no resentment to the PM being wealthy. Good for her. The PM doesn't need a train to bring her fashion products, ok.

And I love you too, gk. Even if your sense-of-humour cut-out apparently needs re-setting.

I do agree that the country needs to spend real money on rail-infrastructure, the SRT have failed long-term to achieve much, and it's welcome if the government now presses the restart-button. Putting in new appointees who can make the trains run, at the SRT, might be a good start !

But what's needed is an energy-efficient freight-system, which will generate real economic returns to repay the investment, not a flashy vote-winning high-speed high-priced passenger-network which doesn't even reach the borders to link-up with the Chinese proposal.

They should run with the Chinese proposal, and look to see where relatively-shorter/cheaper spurs off it might enable faster (but not true high-speed) trains to run over it, gaining extra benefit for relatively-less cost. Thailand is not yet a rich country, cannot afford vanity-projects, and will need to borrow the full-cost so economic-gain must be the guiding-principle here.

The PM needs to understand the economic realities of logistics, and I'm afraid that wittering on about perishable-goods transport betrays her ignorance, OK it was probably only an off-the-cuff remark, which her handlers wish she hadn't made, but laughing at it doesn't mean I'm jealous of her/her-families vast wealth.

It just means that I wish the people making these decisions betrayed some signs of knowing what they're talking about, when they plan a 50-year loan of 2.2 trillion Baht, that's just too much to be allowed to become a pork-barrel, as you surely must see the risk of it becoming ?

[Chrisswe]

PM. Yinluck don't forget to mention the advantage regarding Environment "Air Pollution" in this project. Goods transportation! Diesel trucks vs Train.

[slapout]

So, did we already all agree that high-speed rail links to 'also' be used for transporting perishable goods is not really a good idea?

I think the vast majority agree with your conclusion. The 'exception' seems to refuse to admit this, and has been comparing Thailands proposed solution to the USA when the real comparasion would better fit individual states. Even the Thai's remark that farang do not understand Thai thinking, but yet they themselves seem to propose western ideas/techonolgy for Thai "fixes" .Of course they want to impliment specific parts of the treatment instead of the whole dose for individual benifit.

The real sad part is they do not understand the support/cooperation of all the transport sectors that makes infastructure work in the real world. Its taken more than 100 years to achieve what the developed countries have and these uncaring people are trying to solve multiple problems with 1 or 2 poorly planned/thought out massive spending binges with personal benifits more as the goal than public good.

[Rorri]

One thing no one has mentioned, would anyone want to be on, or near, anything travelling at speed, that is maintained by Thais. How will they keep not only animals away from the tracks but also 65 million fools.

[AleG]

kid" Even if you include small grains your comment about railroads being the cornerstone of perishable shipping in the US may be somewhat out of date. In fact many miles of track has been taken out of service in the past few decades with the highway and air being chosen quickest for door to door delivery.

Canada is the largest market for US agricultural frsh produce exports. Most of the fresh produce is shipped by intermodal methods truck, to train to truck. Mexican fresh produce is usually trucked in to a rail center in the US and then transferred to trains to make its way to northern US and the Canadian markets. Many Europeans come from relatively small countries (land size) with high density populations and attempt to apply the transportation systems that work for that characteristic.

Thailand should have moved to rail cargo a long time ago. However, the emphasis upon trucking is due to the same reasons why the truck carrier lobby in the EU, USA & Canada has always tried to undermine rail transport. Railways haven't had the same deep pocketed lobbyists ( truck manufacturers & suppliers, oil companies, logistic companies) as the trucking lobby.

"Yingluck Defends Using High-Speed Trains Network For Perishable Goods"

Key words there are High-Speed Trains, it's not too difficult to see the difference between a High Speed train and a freight train, which is used to transport goods all over the world.

You just don't want to see it, do you?

[473geo]

kid" Even if you include small grains your comment about railroads being the cornerstone of perishable shipping in the US may be somewhat out of date. In fact many miles of track has been taken out of service in the past few decades with the highway and air being chosen quickest for door to door delivery.

Canada is the largest market for US agricultural frsh produce exports. Most of the fresh produce is shipped by intermodal methods truck, to train to truck. Mexican fresh produce is usually trucked in to a rail center in the US and then transferred to trains to make its way to northern US and the Canadian markets. Many Europeans come from relatively small countries (land size) with high density populations and attempt to apply the transportation systems that work for that characteristic.

Thailand should have moved to rail cargo a long time ago. However, the emphasis upon trucking is due to the same reasons why the truck carrier lobby in the EU, USA & Canada has always tried to undermine rail transport. Railways haven't had the same deep pocketed lobbyists ( truck manufacturers & suppliers, oil companies, logistic companies) as the trucking lobby.

"Yingluck Defends Using High-Speed Trains Network For Perishable Goods"

Key words there are High-Speed Trains, it's not too difficult to see the difference between a High Speed train and a freight train, which is used to transport goods all over the world.

You just don't want to see it, do you?

Well reading your quote above it says "Yingluck Defends Using High-Speed Trains Network For Perishable Goods".........do you understand. or along with many others did you miss that point....if the freight trains do travel on any new track initiated to facilitate the high speed train project......they would be using the network.....maybe a rare occurence but not an impossible scenario don't you think?

Edited March 30, 2013 by 473geo