Maggie Thatcher Is Dead.

[mjj]

Mrs T was elected 3 times and did what she thought she needed to do for the benefit of the country.

She was not a warmonger in the same sense as Blair.

She was not evil.

She helped many people lead successful lives.

If anyone cannot understand why these death parties should not be accepted in Britain, then it is a very sorry and malicious society back home.

TBH, I think the govt should use fire trucks to hose them down. Scum, utter scum. She was someone's mother and grandmother <deleted>!

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies have been deleted.

[chiang mai]

Mrs T was elected 3 times and did what she thought she needed to do for the benefit of the country.

She was not a warmonger in the same sense as Blair.

She was not evil.

She helped many people lead successful lives.

If anyone cannot understand why these death parties should not be accepted in Britain, then it is a very sorry and malicious society back home.

TBH, I think the govt should use fire trucks to hose them down. Scum, utter scum. She was someone's mother and grandmother <deleted>!

+1

[Ace of Pop]

When we moved to England from Portugal The P.M. was Mac Million.. I remember a Douglas somebody, Ted Heath, the Sailor, and Fred Wilson. Thatcher seemed to be the best of the lot. We left just before the Falklands, but i recall all the Brits were Elated a tin pot dictatorship was being denied. Don't understand why she gets such disgusting behavior. Bit Sad i think.

[chooka]

As said before; all the pictures in the papers and on TV show that those 'celebrating' are far too young to have even been born during her Premiership!

The pictures also show that these 'parties' have been organised by the SWP, with the sole purpose of causing trouble.

As a poster said earlier, if these people are so caring, why did they smash into a Barnado's charity shop?

Even her implacable enemies feel that these 'parties' are in poor taste. Martin McGuinness opposes Baroness Thatcher parties

I agree, the 18/19 yr old universty students celebrating her death in Melbourne Australia probably have no idea who she was. They would just be your average ARTS students who go to uni to get social welfare without having to look for a job. The very same people who protest about Bin Laden being taken out with excessive force or Sadam being removed from power.

Edited April 10, 2013 by chooka

[jayboy]

Many older poeple will judge Margaret Thatcher's time through the prism of their own experiences. I spent the Thatcher years in Wales and Scotland, and saw at first hand what her policies meant for ordinary people. It was a time of retrenchment and insecurity in my own area of employment. The seventies had been a difficult decade, not least because of the sharp increase in oil prices, and Britain did need to change. Yet the way this was done brought enormous social costs. For those in the Southeast of England though, the pain was relatively short lived and the gains tangible - hence her popularity there. The enduring impact came in areas like privatisation, deregulation, monetarist economics, and the toleration of increasing social inequality on the theory that this would bring faster economic growth. Your verdict on the Thatcher government is likely to depend on whether you believe these brought the claimed benefits. Personally I wish we had chosen a different path.

A brief and pithy post, with the member concerned (if I may summarise) clearly sceptical about the legacy of Margaret Thatcher given the social impact of her policies in the regions.I disagree with little except that I believe that on balance the changes she introduced were positive.I also believe citizen33 might recall the total despair that many of us felt at the way the country was going before Mrs Thatcher came to power.Perhaps not worth my comment but I'd like to record that if all our posts had a small fraction of citizen33's calmness, intelligence,solid content and balance this would be a better forum.

[exeter]

I dont know hw many of you out there are familiar with the Settle and Carlisle railway running across the pennines, this line was up for closure under here premiership, it came down to the cost of repairing the Ribblehead Viaduct estimated by the people who wanted to close it (BR) at 10 million pounds, the line had been run down by BR for years it was closure by stealth until Michael Portillo got a lower quote and appealed to Maggie not to close the line, stating it was too important and a part of history. she accepted that and today it is flourishing line carrying many many freight trains. Michael quotes this when he asked what he achieved in politics " saving the S & C" She did listen, she did care, other did neither.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies have been deleted. The topic is about the death of Maggie Thatcher. Argumentative posts directed at other posters about her policies will be deleted.

Stick to the topic, please. I am sure in the next few days there will be more topics about the Baroness and will allow for greater latitude in posting opinions about her legacy and policies.

[thenervoussurgeon]

Listening to one of these 'partygoers' being interviewed on the BBC; he feels that it's OK to celebrate her death because she invaded Iraq!

Morons.

As Oscar Wilde said "I wish i was young enough to know everything" i can remember wearing my Che Guevara t shirt and shouting "wait till the revolution" at all those people in their big cars ,then i went home to the big house i lived in in Finchley ,God i was a prat.

[MAJIC]

More photos of street vermin like this here

Thatcher 'Death Parties' indeed.

I'd be taking apart in some of these celebrations if I were in the UK.What surprises me is the picture of some young girls - they weren't alive when Thatcher was in power.

Thatcher divided a country for sure - but to call one half, 'vermin' says a lot about you. Are the 'street vermin' in all the photos or just some? Even Thatcher, wouldn't degrade herself to call the Left 'street vermin'.

I agree with you,is does pose the question of why these young people have so much hate against Thacher?when they can't have been old enough to have any interest in Politics while Thatcher was in office. Perhaps its been handed down from families,or maybe they are protesting for perceived effects on their lives,such as poverty,and the bleak run down bomb site type areas they are forced to live in,to name but two possibilities?

[Bronzepickup]

Listening to one of these 'partygoers' being interviewed on the BBC; he feels that it's OK to celebrate her death because she invaded Iraq!

Morons.

As Oscar Wilde said "I wish i was young enough to know everything" i can remember wearing my Che Guevara t shirt and shouting "wait till the revolution" at all those people in their big cars ,then i went home to the big house i lived in in Finchley ,God i was a prat.

Nothing changes then.

[7by7]

More photos of street vermin like this here

Thatcher 'Death Parties' indeed.

I'd be taking apart in some of these celebrations if I were in the UK.What surprises me is the picture of some young girls - they weren't alive when Thatcher was in power.

Thatcher divided a country for sure - but to call one half, 'vermin' says a lot about you. Are the 'street vermin' in all the photos or just some? Even Thatcher, wouldn't degrade herself to call the Left 'street vermin'.

I agree with you,is does pose the question of why these young people have so much hate against Thacher?when they can't have been old enough to have any interest in Politics while Thatcher was in office. Perhaps its been handed down from families,or maybe they are protesting for perceived effects on their lives,such as poverty,and the bleak run down bomb site type areas they are forced to live in,to name but two possibilities?

These young people are not 'protesting' due to any feelings about Thatcher, handed down from their families or otherwise. You only had to listen to the moron being interviewed on the Jeremy Vine show (by Jane Garvey) this lunchtime. His knowledge of Thatcher and her government was lamentable, as his blaming her for invading Iraq shows.

The other guest on that interview was an ex miner who had been on the picket lines during Scargill's strike. He said that even though he had personally suffered at the time, he felt such 'parties' were wholly inappropriate.

It is obvious that the 'protesters' are made up of two groups

1. The usual SWP troublemakers.
2. Naive youngsters who think any excuse for a drunken party is acceptable.

.

[chuckd]

A teacher is allegedly behind the street parties to celebrate Thatcher's death. Higher education at its finest.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Woman behind street parties to 'celebrate' death of Margaret Thatcher named

By Telegraph reporters3:31PM BST 10 Apr 2013

Romany Blythe, 45, created a group on Facebook called The Witch is Dead followed by more than 5,000 people, calling for “demonstrations of disapproval” across the country.

A number of places on the list were locations of riots and demonstrations that took place across the country on Monday, including Bristol city centre and George Square in Glasgow.

Blythe is a drama teacher with a workshop company that visits secondary schools. She specialises in “facilitating workshops for young, excluded and potentially criminalised individuals and uses drama techniques she has developed to explore resolution of conflict and oppression,” according to the company's website.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/margaret-thatcher/9984646/Woman-behind-street-parties-to-celebrate-death-of-Margaret-Thatcher-named.html

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies have been deleted.

[nong38]

A teacher is allegedly behind the street parties to celebrate Thatcher's death. Higher education at its finest.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Woman behind street parties to 'celebrate' death of Margaret Thatcher named

By Telegraph reporters3:31PM BST 10 Apr 2013

Romany Blythe, 45, created a group on Facebook called The Witch is Dead followed by more than 5,000 people, calling for “demonstrations of disapproval” across the country.

A number of places on the list were locations of riots and demonstrations that took place across the country on Monday, including Bristol city centre and George Square in Glasgow.

Blythe is a drama teacher with a workshop company that visits secondary schools. She specialises in “facilitating workshops for young, excluded and potentially criminalised individuals and uses drama techniques she has developed to explore resolution of conflict and oppression,” according to the company's website.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/margaret-thatcher/9984646/Woman-behind-street-parties-to-celebrate-death-of-Margaret-Thatcher-named.html

Indeed she is a fine pillar of the community, I expect she did not get an invite then?

[nong38]

You cannot change history and its often written by the victors. It depends who teaches it what is delivered and then how its interpreted by those recieving it. I think history will be kind to Maggie, although there will always be those who will dispute facts, myths and want debate. Its interesting I think that abroad she was held in such esteem, perhaps they saw something in her from a different viewpoint than many in the UK.

I hope for fine weather next wednesday, a peaceful and respectful day from all, it will be special and spectacular and thats exactly how it should be. It will be interesting to see who attends.

[b19bry]

Simhne said "she did not believe in society, only individuals and families."

But society is made up of individuals and families!

What's good for them must surely be good for society.

Or do you prefer the old Soviet system where individuals and families come last and the state comes first?

Edit:

Bluespunk; thanks for correcting my history.

But as you say, everyone ignored (weren't aware of?) their crimes at the time.

One of Margaret Thatchers more famous quotes was "There is no such thing as Society" I guess the notion of Society didn't suit her personal agenda.

Completely misleading and what you highlight in bold is not a direct quote. It's certainly out of context and construes a meaning that was not her intent but no doubt suits your own personal agenda.

The following (if you can bother to take the time to read and understand) is the full text of what she said :

"I think we have gone through a period when too many children and

people have been given to understand 'I have a problem, it is the

government's job to cope with it!' or 'I have a problem, I will go and

get a grant to cope with it!'; 'I am homeless, the government must house

me!' and so they are casting their problems on society and who is

society?

"There is no such thing! There are individual men and women

and there are families, and no government can do anything except through

people and people look to themselves first.

"It is our duty to look after ourselves and then also to help

look after our neighbour and life is a reciprocal business and people

have got the entitlements too much in mind without the obligations."

She was right.

[JUDAS]

"It is our duty to look afterourselves and then also to helplook after our neighbour and life is a reciprocal business and
peoplehave got the entitlements too much in mind without the
obligations."

This is IMO why those on the streets celebrating MTs death. Maggie wanted people to get off their asses and do an honest, competitive days work. I would not be at all surprised if a large number of those demonstrating now have never done a full days work in their life, through choice off course. Much easier to sit in front of daytime TV in their govt supplied housing claiming every possible benefit.

Yes, if I was of the same ilk, I'd be on the streets too. Have to let the powers that be see that we wouldn't tolerate another leader who actually wanted us to contribute instead of sponge from the state / tax payer.

I left school in the early eighties, went out and got a job and even experienced unemployment for a while. Strangely enough I never blamed Maggie for my woes, she did what needed to be done. I never felt good claiming unemployment benefit even though I paid more in taxes than I ever took out. For me unemployment was a challenge to be overcome, not a way of life.

[theblether]

Simhne said "she did not believe in society, only individuals and families."

But society is made up of individuals and families!

What's good for them must surely be good for society.

Or do you prefer the old Soviet system where individuals and families come last and the state comes first?

Edit:

Bluespunk; thanks for correcting my history.

But as you say, everyone ignored (weren't aware of?) their crimes at the time.

One of Margaret Thatchers more famous quotes was "There is no such thing as Society" I guess the notion of Society didn't suit her personal agenda.

Completely misleading and what you highlight in bold is not a direct quote. It's certainly out of context and construes a meaning that was not her intent but no doubt suits your own personal agenda.

The following (if you can bother to take the time to read and understand) is the full text of what she said :

"I think we have gone through a period when too many children and

people have been given to understand 'I have a problem, it is the

government's job to cope with it!' or 'I have a problem, I will go and

get a grant to cope with it!'; 'I am homeless, the government must house

me!' and so they are casting their problems on society and who is

society?

"There is no such thing! There are individual men and women

and there are families, and no government can do anything except through

people and people look to themselves first.

"It is our duty to look after ourselves and then also to help

look after our neighbour and life is a reciprocal business and people

have got the entitlements too much in mind without the obligations."

She was right.

We should memorize that, it should be taught at every school in the country. The strength of the country comes from the strength of the individuals that make up the country. We that can, and are capable, all the right thinking among us, will gladly pay our taxation to help those in need, whether it's short term need, or chronic need, through ill health, disability or other.

All we then ask for as that others that can do, and don't just sit there sponging the life out of us. Up until recently too many people revelled in that sponging lifestyle, they mocked people who would rather work and stand their corner, do the right thing.

What's annoying the left now is that under the new austerity measures, things are coming out that the silent majority just cannot believe, and it's soon going to be the case that sponging will once again be as socially acceptable as drink driving.

Thatcher believed with all her heart that the state should give people a chance, under her stewardship some people took it, and others wallowed in self pity. Next week at the funeral you will see this division stood bare, you will thousands of people lining the streets to pay respects to a woman that was faced with an impossible task and did her best, whatever her flaws, and you just know there's going to be some mal-contents protesting vociferously.

You know what? I think Thatcher wouldn't have it any other way, she revelled in a good fight.

" Where there is discord, we will bring harmony " she said on the night of her first election.

You got that one wrong Maggie

[chiang mai]

So Parliament was recalled for one day, the purpose being to honour Lady Thatcher and 150 Labour MP's decided to boycott the event - frankly, those 150 should be removed from office immediately for not having suffcient intellectual or emotional bandwidth and for not demonstrating adequate leadership for the rest of the country. I fear for the future of the UK.

[Steely Dan]

It's quite revealing to see the spite and venom spouted about Thatcher and her ideology by people who are obvious ideologues themselves. The UK had to go cap in hand to the IMF under the previous labour government. We were condescendingly referred to as 'the sick man of Europe' by the French due to our terrible industrial relations and rampant union power. Inflation was so high you sometimes could see three price labels on a can of beans in the supermarket. Powercuts, unburied dead, rubbish piled up in the streets were all the fault of the socialist dinoaurs, who drove away anyone with any initiative with marginal tax rates topping 93% for some.

Thatcher's great strength was the creative destruction of all that was bad with labour, where she went wrong was taking short cuts in rebuilding instead of investing in technology and engineering and rushing privatization before regulation was in place to allow it. Alas Blair and Brown have similarly destroyed Britain with the mountains of debt and uncontrolled immigration, alas we have nobody with the guts or determination of Thatcher to take an axe to the latest socialist disaster.

[7by7]

Off-topic posts and replies have been deleted. The topic is about the death of Maggie Thatcher. Argumentative posts directed at other posters about her policies will be deleted.

Stick to the topic, please. I am sure in the next few days there will be more topics about the Baroness and will allow for greater latitude in posting opinions about her legacy and policies.

Fair enough.

Here it is.

[rott]

It's quite revealing to see the spite and venom spouted about Thatcher and her ideology by people who are obvious ideologues themselves. The UK had to go cap in hand to the IMF under the previous labour government. We were condescendingly referred to as 'the sick man of Europe' by the French due to our terrible industrial relations and rampant union power. Inflation was so high you sometimes could see three price labels on a can of beans in the supermarket. Powercuts, unburied dead, rubbish piled up in the streets were all the fault of the socialist dinoaurs, who drove away anyone with any initiative with marginal tax rates topping 93% for some.

Thatcher's great strength was the creative destruction of all that was bad with labour, where she went wrong was taking short cuts in rebuilding instead of investing in technology and engineering and rushing privatization before regulation was in place to allow it. Alas Blair and Brown have similarly destroyed Britain with the mountains of debt and uncontrolled immigration, alas we have nobody with the guts or determination of Thatcher to take an axe to the latest socialist disaster.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

She made the simple point:- "Our problem is that we are uncompetitive in world markets". And her focus was to put this right.

The left was fixated on entitlements and the inviolate "right to strike", they forgot that it is the customer who picks up the tab and the customer had become tired of poor performance and gone elsewhere.

Edited April 11, 2013 by rott

[Morden]

It's quite revealing to see the spite and venom spouted about Thatcher and her ideology by people who are obvious ideologues themselves. The UK had to go cap in hand to the IMF under the previous labour government. We were condescendingly referred to as 'the sick man of Europe' by the French due to our terrible industrial relations and rampant union power. Inflation was so high you sometimes could see three price labels on a can of beans in the supermarket. Powercuts, unburied dead, rubbish piled up in the streets were all the fault of the socialist dinoaurs, who drove away anyone with any initiative with marginal tax rates topping 93% for some.

Thatcher's great strength was the creative destruction of all that was bad with labour, where she went wrong was taking short cuts in rebuilding instead of investing in technology and engineering and rushing privatization before regulation was in place to allow it. Alas Blair and Brown have similarly destroyed Britain with the mountains of debt and uncontrolled immigration, alas we have nobody with the guts or determination of Thatcher to take an axe to the latest socialist disaster.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

She made the simple point:- "Our problem is that we are uncompetitive in world markets". And her focus was to put this right.

The left was fixated on entitlements and the inviolate "right to strike", they forgot that it is the customer who picks up the tab and the customer had become tired of poor performance and gone elsewhere.

And in attempting to cure the illness, she condemned the patient to a slow and painful death.

[citizen33]

Margaret’s Thatcher’s death is a moment to reflect on what changed after 1979 and whether it was for good or ill. My own view is that the results were more mixed than many are saying. In an earlier post I included some links which seem to show that the macro economic statistics from the 1970s don’t leap out as being as bad as most assume. Britain was facing a competitive disadvantage vis-a-vis other European countries in the post-war period, but this was not uniform across all industries. There were areas of strength – pharmaceuticals, non-ferrous metals, machine tools, creative industries (film) for example - as well as areas that were in long-term decline – textiles, shipbuilding. The governments of the 1960s and 1970s have been criticised for trying to support ‘national champions’ : for picking winners they hoped to grow using public subsidies, but which in many cases turned out to be losers. Governments used both selective measures (targeting particular sectors) and horizontal measures, which tried to create an environment in which enterprises of many kinds could flourish, and before Thatcher both parties had industrial policies of this kind. Partly they had tried to copy France and Germany which had a fair degree of success in protecting and building sectors of manufacturing industry that were to stand them in good stead.

The Thatcher government tended to equate industrial policy with public subsidies, and may have had a good case for its scepticism about ‘national champions’. However, its response was to compress the range of horizontal and selective measures that had existed before into a narrow focus on promoting competition (backed up by the privatisation programme). The government was not concerned if some of the participants were foreign-owned, so that for example, enterprises like ICL (computers) and INMOS (semi-conductors) that had benefited from public investment were sold to overseas competitors. Pharmaceuticals had been doing well, in part because of investment in the NHS and also the UK research base (the universities) and although that sector continued to flourish, the Thatcher years saw academic research that might have benefited other sectors cut back hard. There were other industries – such as aerospace – which might have done better with some continuing selective support, and older readers may remember that was a controversial issue even within the Conservative Party, illustrated by Michael Heseltine’s resignation. Airbus is a contemporary example that shows the European-style policies did not always fail. As others have said the longer-term result was an uneven development whereby the service industries, and especially financial services, grew faster than manufacturing industry, but also a turn away from a more European form of capitalism to Anglo-American neo-liberalism.

I am, of course, offering a simplified version of history, but it sums up why I cannot agree that Mrs Thatcher’s policies ‘saved’ the country. It isn’t just the hard left who see things this way: I would hazard a guess that many industrialists of the old school would like to see more rounded industrial policies in the UK today.

I know that a long post like this will be boring for many, but Mrs Thatcher’s death made me reflect back on the above, and I found these publications interesting sources (albeit both written from a right of centre perspective).

http://www.mbs.ac.uk/about-mbs/news/_assets/pdf/paper g owen government business relations.pdf

http://www.bis.gov.uk/assets/BISCore/economics-and-statistics/docs/10-781-bis-economics-paper-06.pdf

Edited April 11, 2013 by citizen33

[Potosi]

Listening to one of these 'partygoers' being interviewed on the BBC; he feels that it's OK to celebrate her death because she invaded Iraq!

Morons.

Didn't watch this interview. It's possible this person refered to the first Gulf War, in which case someone else would be exposed as moron.

[katana]

That is true of every government since the war.

So, using your argument, no government has been popular because every government has had more people not voting for them than did vote for them.

As said, it is the nature of British politics and if it is your only 'proof' that her governments and the lady herself were as unpopular as you seem to be saying then you really are scraping the barrel of desperation!

I can't think of any other prime minister who died recently where there was so much vitriol heaped upon them with street parties and people dancing in the streets. She certainly divided opinion.

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

Margaret Thatcher, the only true working class Prime Minister that Britain ever had. The embodiment of duty, industry and bravery. There will never be a finer person to grace that office.

Another one trying to re write history. "True working class"! Don't be silly. She was very much middle class, probably upper middle class. Her father owned one of the biggest shops in Grantham, and was the Tory Lord Mayor for many years.

As for the posters who are saying she advanced the cause of feminism and opened the door for the advancement of women, the facts show that this is utter codswallop and the opposite is the case. During the whole time she was Prime Minister she did not appoint one woman to her cabinet. Not one! The closest she came was to appoint the unelected Lady Young to the position of Leader of the House of Lords, pretty much a non job.

This woman was reviled by millions across the UK, as the reaction to her death in towns, cities, and communities showed last night. The idea of a ceremonial funeral with full military honours will be abhorrent to at least half of England and most of Scotland, where she was especially hated, and has the potential to be a fiasco. The policing and security for such an event will be a nightmare, God knows what it will cost, both in monetary and civil liberty terms. The City of London will be in lockdown.

The next few days will at least give the lie to the fashionable view that the BBC is a 'lefty' organization, watching the coverage yesterday was quite nauseating in its one sided view of her legacy. Nick Robinson,( Political Editor), was basically acting as a PR man for the Conservative Party, so complete was his sycophancy. At one point he even started going on about how sexy she was,( i kid you not). It would not have looked out of place in North Korea. An online petition objecting to a state funeral was shut down after receiving tens of thousands of signatures in a couple of hours. I wonder why, and by whom? Dissent is not allowed, and will certainly not be shown by the BBC, as we shall find out on the day of this 'Ceremonial Funeral', when there will be hundreds of alternative 'Ceremonies' across the UK.

This woman divided the UK like no other, and should be afforded the same funeral as previous Prime Ministers like Heath, Callaghan and Wilson. No more, no less.

For the record,Grantham has never had a Lord Mayor and voting Tory doesn't make you middle class or indeed upper middle class. As for the shop,you can view it on Google images and see that it looks far from grand. Margaret Thatcher won a scholarship to attend grammer school. She didn't attend one of the expensive public schools like the sons and daughters of many of the Tory elite. She became an Oxford graduate,a research chemist and a barrister through her own efforts, in a period when women had to be truly exceptional to get on. As far as I am concerned, working for what you achieve in life and getting there without the trappings of privilege is being working class.

[7by7]

Listening to one of these 'partygoers' being interviewed on the BBC; he feels that it's OK to celebrate her death because she invaded Iraq!

Morons.

Didn't watch this interview. It's possible this person refered to the first Gulf War, in which case someone else would be exposed as moron.

It was on Radio 2, but never mind.

No, he didn't mean the first Gulf war. He specificaly said that Thatcher had invaded Iraq. When Garvey corrected him, saying that it was Blair who invaded Iraq, he blustered and tried to back down.

He didn't mention Kuwait or the first Gulf war at all. Even had he done so, he would still have been wrong. That war started when Iraq invaded Kuwait; no one invaded Iraq on that occasion.

Least of all Thatcher as she was no longer PM when it started!

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies deleted.