Maggie Thatcher Is Dead.

[7by7]

I believed that what she 'hated' about feminism was the notion that women should be given special treatment. She firmly believed that anyone could rise to the top by sheer hard work and merit; as she had done.

Women only shortlists is something she would have hated.

[Totster]

Ex-London mayor Ken Livingstone tells Sky News Baroness Thatcher's policies were "fundamentally wrong". "She created today's housing crisis, she produced the banking crisis, she created the benefits crisis. It was her government that started putting people on incapacity benefits rather than register them as unemployed because the Britain she inherited was broadly at full employment," he says.

Yes, well he would..

Anything for his 5 minutes..

totster

[7by7]

On the Politics Show, Sunday 14 January 2006, Jon Sopel interviewed Tony Benn, winner of the Political Heroes vote.

JON SOPEL: Interestingly, the emails that we got, a lot of people, citing the reasons why they voted for you, were exactly the same reasons that they cited for voting for Margaret Thatcher.

TONY BENN: Well I mean Mrs Thatcher said what she meant, meant what she said and did what she said she'd do. And no spin about that woman and although I thought her policies were catastrophic, at least you knew where you were with her. But in a world of spin doctors and think tanks and focus groups, nobody knows what's going on and I think there is a serious alienation, people don't feel that they're being represented, they're being managed.

Although on totally different sides of the political fence, Thatcher and Benn had a lot in common. They both said what they thought and belived in; and you have to respect them both for that.

Whereas Livingstone says what he thinks will get him more publicity!

Give it up, Ken; you're yesterday's man.

[Morakot]

The moderate elements having their kneecaps shot off by the Provos (and, to be fair, similar on the Unionist side) played no part in it, then?

I doubt that there is evidence for this. This form of violence was (is) used against people who were suspected to be criminals, not against those republicans who differed in their political views towards engaging with unionists or the British government.

The point is that through Thather's policies republicans were further radicalised which played well into hands of those with an interrest in suppressing the more moderates.

Edited April 8, 2013 by Morakot

[Jingthing]

She advanced feminism.

"I hate feminism. It is poison." - m. thatcher.

What she said or thought about feminism is irrelevant. Not talking her about bra burning style feminism. Talking about WOMEN IN POWER feminism and objectively despite her views she was a major force in advancing that. Being the first women head leader of a major western power , getting the office through her own merits, holding the office so long, and having a significant historical impact were all contributing factors. Doesn't mean I like her and most of what she did any more than she liked feminism but facts are facts.

I read an interesting article that said MT would not have liked to be called a feminist and she indeed hated the very notion of it, however there is no doubt that she empowered women, and the strong women you see in charge of large organisations in the UK now are a direct result of her influence.

totster

Indeed you don't have to be a feminist to advance feminism. It's interesting to contrast her to possible first USA woman president Hillary Clinton who IS definitely a feminist and ironically she is very, very careful not to mimic the macho attitude of a Thatcher figure for fear of being stuck with the B word label. So feminism and women in power without baggage still has a way to go.

[A_Traveller]

The death of Baroness Thatcher today is a moment of great sadness for her family and for those around the world who saw in her an embodiment of personal freedom, the freedom of the individual to live their life without micromanagement by the state.

Those individuals will no doubt add their words in eulogy. Mikhail Gorbachev has already noted her fundamental contribution to the demise of the Soviet Union, [guess he should know], one looks at the growth of the privatisation movement world wide, creating new industries, not all perfect, but in most cases better then the state run monopolies they replaced.

She also carried forward policies to reduce the ability of unions to destabilise the country where union members from one dispute would go to another business [often not in the same industry nor party to the originating dispute] and cause a strike or close down there, sometimes described as flying pickets, and wildcat actions etc. by putting into place pre-strike ballots. The odd thing is that these reforms were part of Labour Party policy but could never be brought in by them [for non Brits the Labour Party is financially underpinned by the union movement].

The UK was in serious trouble and solutions were needed. She managed to both bring the country forward and provide a blueprint for other countries who have adopted these solutions, even to a degree in non "Anglo Saxon" economies. As to creating or contributing to the recent financial crash that is sophistry, and even dear old Ken knows it.

She believed in what she said, she was what you saw, no focus group driven banality.

Maybe some should remember [or search for] the three day week, the winter of discontent, that preceded her, and not the least that most of her cabinet at the start were convinced that "that woman" would be unable to be Prime Minister.

Well few change the World, even fewer change it in peace time, she did.

Tragically ill health meant that she was unable to speak out in her later years but I do wonder what she would have said about the way the UK [and much of the West] has lurched into a surveillance society [assuming it exists - Thatcher Quote in-joke] and an atmosphere of fear. She had not only faced down terrorism but had been attacked by it directly and personally, and yet she still sponsored secret communications to try and find a peaceful settlement, a task which Sir John Major carried forward.

RIP

[yourauntbob]

She was before my time, but from what I have heard about her my sincerest gratitude to all she did. From what I have heard, she was someone who implemented policies that she truly believed would help her country and the world despite what others thought about them. RIP

[Mosha]

Her great privatisation drive lined the pockets of her mates, and don't even get me started on the Falklands. The hag has the blood of our troops on her hands. Sent from my GT-N7000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Unlike the Champagne Socialists, and Blair got far more of our boys in peril supporting the war on terror.

[jocko]

Wilson gave the Unions the freedom to begin the destruction of British Industry, something he is reported to have threatened whilst still at university. Thatcher then continued his work by fighting the too powerful unions and killing of British industry at the same time.

So.. what you are saying is she should have let the unions have their way....??

In any case it was the unions who killed British Industry, left unchecked they would have seen workers paid too much for not enough work, British products would become uncompetitive forces huge job loses.

Don't blame a single person when it was the greedy unions and the even more greedy workers for killing their own golden goose.

totster

British goods did become uncompetitive - the ones that were still being produced.

As I wrote, Wilson started the rot by allowing the unions to muster too much power and Thatcher used that to kill industry whilst telling everyone that she was curbing union power.

Ye nothing to do with owners keeping all the profits no investments in new equipment no new products not keeping there eyes open that foreign companies were making better products the union's only bought a quicker end.

Look at the old car and motorbike industry that the UK had they sat back and let Japan take the lot.

I remember the Honda motor motorbike coming to the UK and then one of the Motorcycles magazines getting one and striping it down to nuts and bolts the engineer's comment was .It is built like a Swiss watch.

.The management in some companies were useless.

We dont have strong unions now to blame for the state of Europe and the USA now

[theblether]

I believed that what she 'hated' about feminism was the notion that women should be given special treatment. She firmly believed that anyone could rise to the top by sheer hard work and merit; as she had done.

Women only shortlists is something she would have hated.

Yup she hated the idea of women being treated like social spastics and women loved her for it, she wasn't macho, but she was strong.

That seems to be a crime in a women according to some people.

[smokie36]

You clearly know nothing of Gordon Brown's constituency.

Thankfully I can reassure you that it is impoverished....in a worse state than most places I have lived in the South East. I've lived all over England in the last 20 years....the south has nothing to whinge about.

And you clearly know nothing of the South East, even though you claim to have lived here.

Some of the UK's most deprived areas and areas of highest unemployment are in London and the South East.

We don't all live in big mansions with uniformed lackeys catering to our every whim!

(I assume you mean the South East of England; if you mean the South East of Scotland I'll take you at your word as I have never lived there.)

Well 7by7 I will wager that in the 15 years I lived in the South East i lived in many more areas than yourself.

Have you ever lived in Fife?

[SteeleJoe]

A quote from someone on Facebook.

Margaret Thatcher left office in 1990...23 years ago..I think you'd be hard pushed to blame her for todays "ill's"...

RAZZ

Not speaking to this specific instance - as I'm not qualified to - but 23 years is in no way too long to have results of a previous administration's polices still resounding. In fact, sometimes certain effects not even manifest themselves for may years, later let alone how long they remain once they are manifested.

The stronger a leader is - whether or not that leader goes in directions you like - the more likely that his/her actions will have long lasting or even permanent effects; not even many of her critics would deny she was a strong leader. Would you?

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

[soi41]

Not being British, I am not the right person to judge if Mrs Thatcher was a good PM or not.

Just surprised that the news of her death causes all the bickering here between posters, who on threads about any farangs dead hear in LOS manage to fill 10 pages with RIP's!

Britain being a democracy (?), I suppose Mrs Thatcher represented a majority of the voters. And whatever was done/not done during her reign, my guess is, she was not acting alone (the Party).

As this is a thread about her death, I find it very poor taste, that some posters are going to celebrate the death of a political opponent. And "we" are the ones going to teach the natives here, how a real democracy is working ??

If you are going to get a kick out of criticising someone, who has not been active in politics for 23 years, what about a new topic:

Politics of The Iron Lady.

[7by7]

You clearly know nothing of Gordon Brown's constituency.

Thankfully I can reassure you that it is impoverished....in a worse state than most places I have lived in the South East. I've lived all over England in the last 20 years....the south has nothing to whinge about.

And you clearly know nothing of the South East, even though you claim to have lived here.

Some of the UK's most deprived areas and areas of highest unemployment are in London and the South East.

We don't all live in big mansions with uniformed lackeys catering to our every whim!

(I assume you mean the South East of England; if you mean the South East of Scotland I'll take you at your word as I have never lived there.)

Well 7by7 I will wager that in the 15 years I lived in the South East i lived in many more areas than yourself.

Have you ever lived in Fife?

Maybe you have, maybe not; I'm certainly not going into a silly competition with you on that very minor point!

What is obvious from your comments is that either

• you have forgotten what many areas in the South East are like, or;
• you only lived in the better off parts (and I'm sure there are plenty of those in Scotland, too) or;
• you are ignoring the facts to make a political point.

I hope it is one of the first two, not the last.

No, I have never lived in Fife.

[A_Traveller]

The moderate elements having their kneecaps shot off by the Provos (and, to be fair, similar on the Unionist side) played no part in it, then?

I doubt that there is evidence for this. This form of violence was (is) used against people who were suspected to be criminals, not against those republicans who differed in their political views towards engaging with unionists or the British government.

The point is that through Thatcher's policies republicans were further radicalised which played well into hands of those with an interest in suppressing the more moderates.

Have to say without going too far off topic that "punishments" including kneecapping were undertaken by the IRA against those who "disobeyed". or were viewed as politically/militarily unsound. Indeed to avoid being shown to be in breach of the Mitchell Agreements Mo Molem took the view that the IRA had breached the cease fire [in part with punishments] but the cessation as a whole had not broken down and no sanctions were taken against Sinn Fein.

Also there were a number of secret communications to try and establish a way forward for resolution. Some of this is only becoming public knowledge recently care of the 30 year rule.

Edited April 8, 2013 by A_Traveller

[thenervoussurgeon]

Will Yingluck attend the funeral?

Nah, but she's sending her condolences to the Iron Chef.

More like The little Chef,with her knowledge of politics

[irishken]

she also stopped liverpool from getting back into european competition in 89 after hillsborough when she knew there had been a cover up regarding the whole thing.blamed liverpool fans for this.just another legacy of her time in office .

[SantiSuk]

Margaret Thatcher takes her cabinet out to dinner and orders steak. "What about the vegetables ?" asks the waitress. "Oh, they'll have the same as me" replies the Iron Lady.

MT (addressing cabinet meeting who look like a bunch of naughty schoolboys): "So I’m unanimous on rate capping. Is anyone not unanimous?"

Norman: (tentatively responding) "Er ... it ... we ... er ... slightly ... er ... what’s the opposite of unanimous?"

MT (picking up on Norman's question) "Geoffrey?"

Geoffrey Howe (beside himself with fear): "Animous?"

MT (imperious): "Wrong. The opposite of unanimous is fired."

Political satire was great in the Thatcher era

[smokie36]

You clearly know nothing of Gordon Brown's constituency.

Thankfully I can reassure you that it is impoverished....in a worse state than most places I have lived in the South East. I've lived all over England in the last 20 years....the south has nothing to whinge about.

And you clearly know nothing of the South East, even though you claim to have lived here.

Some of the UK's most deprived areas and areas of highest unemployment are in London and the South East.

We don't all live in big mansions with uniformed lackeys catering to our every whim!

(I assume you mean the South East of England; if you mean the South East of Scotland I'll take you at your word as I have never lived there.)

Well 7by7 I will wager that in the 15 years I lived in the South East i lived in many more areas than yourself.

Have you ever lived in Fife?

Maybe you have, maybe not; I'm certainly not going into a silly competition with you on that very minor point!

What is obvious from your comments is that either

• you have forgotten what many areas in the South East are like, or;
• you only lived in the better off parts (and I'm sure there are plenty of those in Scotland, too) or;
• you are ignoring the facts to make a political point.

I hope it is one of the first two, not the last.

No, I have never lived in Fife.

My point is not so minor 7by7 and I am well aware that there are poor areas in London but the damage done to entire communites being left with no work or future destroyed many people in Scotland in the late 1980's.

They had no hope and no future and Thatcher's government cared not a jot for any of them.

There will be a lot of happy people tonight.

[nontabury]

You clearly know nothing of Gordon Brown's constituency.

Thankfully I can reassure you that it is impoverished....in a worse state than most places I have lived in the South East. I've lived all over England in the last 20 years....the south has nothing to whinge about.

Maybe you should be blaming Brown and his mate Blair,they caused more damage to the UK than Hitler ever managed to do.

[Potosi]

I believed that what she 'hated' about feminism was the notion that women should be given special treatment. She firmly believed that anyone could rise to the top by sheer hard work and merit; as she had done.

What hard work are you talking about? She was a politician, for God's sake. And she came out on top because she was given special treatment throughout her career, as a rare female conservative politician.

[thenervoussurgeon]

OK, I'll be nice. I'm going to raise a glass, I'm going to remember

-The young men resting in cemeteries over a pointless battle for some rocks off the coast of Argentina

-The young men of today, growing up in the Welsh valleys, all industry shut down, no work, nothing to live for, families lived like that since Thatcher, 79 or more suicides in a small community no longer reported in the media.

State funeral? Chuck her in a South Wales coal mine.

I am from South Wales ,the miners destroyed themselves ,making it cheaper to import coal from Australia ,than produce it at home , and don't get me started on the disaster that was the strike ,now Scargill never lost out did he? living the life of riley afterwards all paid for by the union .,the miners may not have liked her but us ordinary workers respected her .

[cardholder]

Ex-London mayor Ken Livingstone tells Sky News Baroness Thatcher's policies were "fundamentally wrong". "She created today's housing crisis, she produced the banking crisis, she created the benefits crisis. It was her government that started putting people on incapacity benefits rather than register them as unemployed because the Britain she inherited was broadly at full employment," he says.

A pathetic man of straw opinioning on an Iron Lady

RIP Maggie.

[smokie36]

You clearly know nothing of Gordon Brown's constituency.

Thankfully I can reassure you that it is impoverished....in a worse state than most places I have lived in the South East. I've lived all over England in the last 20 years....the south has nothing to whinge about.

Maybe you should be blaming Brown and his mate Blair,they caused more damage to the UK than Hitler ever managed to do.

Yes of course nontabury, after all the Poll Tax was their idea as well.

Selling off the council houses so the southerners could all buy gites in France and sell their properties to foreigners was all their idea too.

Yes nontabury....selling off what doesn't belong to them is the work of all politicians when their back is against the wall.

[nontabury]

She polarised opinion.

For me I will celebrate with Chicog.

As a Scot she did nothing for me or my communty.

Most north of the Watford gap will feel the same I suspect.

I was going to say... we will find out who are the northerners and southerners in this topic..

I thought she was a great PM, represented us well on the world stage.. like others have said she wasn't perfect.. but then none of them are.

totster

Me and my mate from Chumpom are both Yorkshiremen, born and bred and we both reckon she was the best we've seen in our lifetimes. So it's not all South vs North.

Here,Here,as an ex NBC employee and one time resident of Brampton Bierlow,(goggle Cortonwood colliery to see it's significance) I think she had far more pluses than minuses.just a shame we don't have a politician,with the same character now.

[Basil B]

Let her rest in peace…

I do not think she was a wonderful woman, far from it, she was domineering and a bully, and even demanded things like honors’ for her family and a state funeral, normal such things are given in gratitude not demanded.

If she is so worthy of a state funeral let the Americans give her one for that is where she chose to live after leaving office.

[naboo]

I am from South Wales ,the miners destroyed themselves ,making it cheaper to import coal from Australia ,than produce it at home , and don't get me started on the disaster that was the strike ,now Scargill never lost out did he? living the life of riley afterwards all paid for by the union .,the miners may not have liked her but us ordinary workers respected her .

Us ordinary workers?

You don't speak for me when you say that, please rephrase to say that you respected her. The ordinary workers around me despised her.

[theblether]

@ Basil B

She demanded a State funeral? To my knowledge it was Tony Blair that gifted it to her unless you know different?

.

Edited April 8, 2013 by theblether

[7by7]

she also stopped liverpool from getting back into european competition in 89 after hillsborough when she knew there had been a cover up regarding the whole thing.blamed liverpool fans for this.just another legacy of her time in office .

I had no idea that EUFA listened to her! Nothing to do with Heysel then?

OK, I'll be nice. I'm going to raise a glass, I'm going to remember

-The young men resting in cemeteries over a pointless battle for some rocks off the coast of Argentina

-The young men of today, growing up in the Welsh valleys, all industry shut down, no work, nothing to live for, families lived like that since Thatcher, 79 or more suicides in a small community no longer reported in the media.

State funeral? Chuck her in a South Wales coal mine.

Not a pontless battle to those who lived there, nor the vast majority of British people who supported their liberation.

The person to blame for all that is Galtieri; if his goverment hadn't invaded the Falklands there would have been no war and those young men, on both sides, would not have died.

Once the coal is gone, it's gone. Even so, coal mining all over the UK would probably have lasted longer without the actions of the destroyer of the UK's coal mines; Scargill.

My point is not so minor 7by7 and I am well aware that there are poor areas in London but the damage done to entire communites being left with no work or future destroyed many people in Scotland in the late 1980's.

They had no hope and no future and Thatcher's government cared not a jot for any of them.

There will be a lot of happy people tonight.

What is minor is a silly argument over who has lived in more areas of the South East; or for longer. As for the rest, see the three options in my previous comment to you.

I feel sorry for anyone who feels happiness over the death of Lady Thatcher. Being happy at the death of anyone is a sad and miserable state to be in; no matter how much you disagreed with them.

[7by7]

Selling off the council houses so the southerners could all buy gites in France and sell their properties to foreigners was all their idea too.

This comment alone shows your total ignorance of the South of England!

And about the right to buy, something I was against as it happens. Did no one in Scotland buy their council house.