Three Foreigners Arrested Over A T M Fraud In Phuket

[webfact]

Three foreigners arrested for skimming in Phuket
Tanyaluk Sakoot


The three alleged members of the skimmer gang hide their faces.

PHUKET: -- Three foreigners – two Frenchmen and a Tunisian – were arrested yesterday (April 14) in a rented home in Phuket Country Club on charges of skimming bank ATM cards.

At a press conference this morning (April 15), Mhoussin Mahamond, 22, and Ganzouai Zaidi, 29, both French citizens, along with, Tunisian Adjemi Ramzi, 31, were presented to the media, along with evidence seized by police.

This included a laptop computer with card reader, 70 ATM and credit cards with passwords written on them, and 6,000 Euros and B134,000 in cash.

Also on display was 7.5 grams of marijuana, allegedly found in Ramzi’s possession.

Tourist Police Investigator Pol Lt Nikom Teinhoa told The Phuket News that the arrests came after a tip-off to police.

All four were charged with possession of equipment for electronic theft, being in Thailand illegally (having overstayed their visas) and, in the case of Ramzi, with possession of a banned substance.

Police said the trio came to Phuket during Songkran posing as tourists. With the large amounts of visitors on the island they soon managed to skim dozens of cards.

They cloned the cards and then used them to withdraw hundreds of thousands of baht from each card-holder’s account.

The money was spent on clothing, eyewear, gold and other luxuries, or was changed into Euros which the trio hoped to carry with them out of Thailand.

Lt Nikom said, “This is only one of the gangs we have found. We believe they are connected with other gangs who have been committing the same kind of crime in Koh Samui, Bangkok, Chonburi and other provinces.”

The trio are being held in Thung Thong police station while the investigation proceeds. Police believe one more member of the gang is still at large, and he is being sought.

Source: http://www.thephuketnews.com/three-foreigners-arrested-for-skimming-in-phuket-38663.php


-- Phuket News 2013-04-15

[KED]

Skimming is becoming more and more prevalent - what are the banks doing to ensure their ATM's are skim-free?

Also, the news report shows 3 people and lists 3 names - but then it switches to 4 and then back to 3...who edits these articles?

[NamKangMan]

Skimming is becoming more and more prevalent - what are the banks doing to ensure their ATM's are skim-free?

Also, the news report shows 3 people and lists 3 names - but then it switches to 4 and then back to 3...who edits these articles?

I have always wondered WHY the banks can't have an OTP (one time password) sent via SMS for every ATM transaction, just like they do for internet banking transactions.

The "skimmer" would also have to steal your phone - highly unlikely.

Surely this would be easy to implement and would make skimming a thing of the past, virtually overnight.

[Dancealot]

Skimming is becoming more and more prevalent - what are the banks doing to ensure their ATM's are skim-free?

Also, the news report shows 3 people and lists 3 names - but then it switches to 4 and then back to 3...who edits these articles?

I have always wondered WHY the banks can't have an OTP (one time password) sent via SMS for every ATM transaction, just like they do for internet banking transactions.

The "skimmer" would also have to steal your phone - highly unlikely.

Surely this would be easy to implement and would make skimming a thing of the past, virtually overnight.

Let me emphasize you made a very VALID and IMPORTANT point here Mr. NamKangMan!

[Dancealot]

I was glad when i read the headline the media used the word foreigners! Just to leave things in the middle and dont let the public be overgudgemental about certain country's.

Then i saw the picture, THEN is saw the first sentence..

[stevenl]

Skimming is becoming more and more prevalent - what are the banks doing to ensure their ATM's are skim-free?

Also, the news report shows 3 people and lists 3 names - but then it switches to 4 and then back to 3...who edits these articles?

Depends on where your bank is located what the banks are doing.

Regarding the numbers, did you read the article?

[stevenl]

Skimming is becoming more and more prevalent - what are the banks doing to ensure their ATM's are skim-free?

Also, the news report shows 3 people and lists 3 names - but then it switches to 4 and then back to 3...who edits these articles?

I have always wondered WHY the banks can't have an OTP (one time password) sent via SMS for every ATM transaction, just like they do for internet banking transactions.

The "skimmer" would also have to steal your phone - highly unlikely.

Surely this would be easy to implement and would make skimming a thing of the past, virtually overnight.

Very inconvenient, and who is going to pay for the roaming charges?

Quite a few banks have IMO much better solutions for internetbanking than the SMS passwords by the way.

[Jdietz]

A simple authenticator (either as a keyring device or as a free app on your smartphone) will do the trick. Add biometrics if you're paranoid.

- Something you have

- Something you know

- Something you are

[NamKangMan]

Skimming is becoming more and more prevalent - what are the banks doing to ensure their ATM's are skim-free?

Also, the news report shows 3 people and lists 3 names - but then it switches to 4 and then back to 3...who edits these articles?

I have always wondered WHY the banks can't have an OTP (one time password) sent via SMS for every ATM transaction, just like they do for internet banking transactions.

The "skimmer" would also have to steal your phone - highly unlikely.

Surely this would be easy to implement and would make skimming a thing of the past, virtually overnight.

Very inconvenient, and who is going to pay for the roaming charges?

Quite a few banks have IMO much better solutions for internetbanking than the SMS passwords by the way.

"Inconvenient" - what, entering on the key pad an extra few numbers???? Most people are with their smart phone 24/7 these days. A smart phone has become like a watch/wallet/wedding ring. It goes where you go. Now what would be inconvenient is having your card skimmed and then having to cancel your card and wait around 6 weeks for your bank, if you are lucky, to refund you the money. I have no doubt these skimmers have ended many tourist's holidays by cleaning out their bank account.

"Roaming charges" - there are none to receive an SMS. There is to send one, but you are not sending, only receiving.

Taking onboard your post, the minor inconvenience using an OTP can be further minimised with any transaction under $100 not triggering the OTP, but more than one transaction a day does, or something similar.

It's just something I'm surprised the banks haven't implemented. All the hardware is in place. ATM, keypad and mobile phone and they already have similar software in operation for the internet banking.

[NamKangMan]

A simple authenticator (either as a keyring device or as a free app on your smartphone) will do the trick. Add biometrics if you're paranoid.

- Something you have

- Something you know

- Something you are

One of my banks have them, but if you lose it, have it stolen, or it gets broken, you're in some trouble.

[stevenl]

Skimming is becoming more and more prevalent - what are the banks doing to ensure their ATM's are skim-free?

Also, the news report shows 3 people and lists 3 names - but then it switches to 4 and then back to 3...who edits these articles?

I have always wondered WHY the banks can't have an OTP (one time password) sent via SMS for every ATM transaction, just like they do for internet banking transactions.

The "skimmer" would also have to steal your phone - highly unlikely.

Surely this would be easy to implement and would make skimming a thing of the past, virtually overnight.

Very inconvenient, and who is going to pay for the roaming charges?

Quite a few banks have IMO much better solutions for internetbanking than the SMS passwords by the way.

"Inconvenient" - what, entering on the key pad an extra few numbers???? Most people are with their smart phone 24/7 these days. A smart phone has become like a watch/wallet/wedding ring. It goes where you go. Now what would be inconvenient is having your card skimmed and then having to cancel your card and wait around 6 weeks for your bank, if you are lucky, to refund you the money. I have no doubt these skimmers have ended many tourist's holidays by cleaning out their bank account.

"Roaming charges" - there are none to receive an SMS. There is to send one, but you are not sending, only receiving.

Taking onboard your post, the minor inconvenience using an OTP can be further minimised with any transaction under $100 not triggering the OTP, but more than one transaction a day does, or something similar.

It's just something I'm surprised the banks haven't implemented. All the hardware is in place. ATM, keypad and mobile phone and they already have similar software in operation for the internet banking.

Way to difficult to implement, is never going to happen. In your setup the banks have to pay the roaming charges, many people will find this inconvenient so will not want it, making this optional and requiring automation.

Smartphones and internetbanking are not as popular as you think, just googled, 37% of Australians have a smartphone, so 63% of people do not have one. And quite a few of those will not take their phone with them on vacation.

Plus as mentioned, the method of phone codes is obsolete.

Sorry, but really a losing proposition.

Edited April 15, 2013 by stevenl

[webfact]

Phuket expat skimmed for B100,000
Claire Connell


Ali Goebel.

PHUKET: -- Phuket expat Ali Goebel is issuing advice to other ATM users after B100,000 was skimmed from her bank account on Saturday while in Hua Hin – cover your hand when you’re entering your pincode.

Mrs Goebel had B100,000 taken out of her Citibank account in 11 transactions on Saturday (April 13), with bank records showing the money was taken from an ATM in Vietnam.

She was alerted via an email from the bank, which questioned the multiple transactions. A phone call stopped any further withdrawals, but by that time the skimmers had already taken a large amount of cash.

“The withdrawals started at US$50, then up to US$85, then US$100, US$200 and then US$400. And finally it was stopped at B100,000. It is scary. It is lucky I caught it because that account had B200,000 in it and they could have got it all.”

Mrs Goebel, who has lived in Phuket for six years, said a cash fraud investigation was already under way by Citibank.

“I’m disputing the transactions, and I’ve sent some paperwork to them. It could take up to two months but I will get the money back.”

When she called the bank and asked how it might have happened, Ms Goebel was told the skimmers attach some sort of scanner to the ATM, and set up a camera so they can video you entering your pin.

She said that ATM users should use cover their hand when entering their pin on an ATM, to avoid being videoed if there was a camera set up.

“The bank also said it is better to use bank ATM machines as they are safer. I use the ATMs at Family Marts and 7-Elevens.”

Mrs Goebel said Citibank had been “excellent” to deal with, and she was thankful she would get the money returned.

Skimming from ATMs has been a hot topic on the island for many years.

Yesterday (April 14), two Frenchmen and a Tunisian were arrested for skimming.

Evidence collected by the police included a laptop computer with card reader, 70 ATM and credit cards with passwords written on them, and 6,000 Euros and B134,000 in cash.

Earlier this year, Australian Robert Millard made headlines when B90,000 was skimmed from his Krungsri bank account in April 2012, withdrawn in Pattaya while he was in Phuket.

Mr Millard is still trying to get the money back, but so far has been unsuccessful.

Source: http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-expat-skimmed-for-b100-000-38665.php


-- Phuket News 2013-04-15

[stevenl]

A simple authenticator (either as a keyring device or as a free app on your smartphone) will do the trick. Add biometrics if you're paranoid.

- Something you have

- Something you know

- Something you are

One of my banks have them, but if you lose it, have it stolen, or it gets broken, you're in some trouble.

No, you simply get a new one.

[NamKangMan]

A simple authenticator (either as a keyring device or as a free app on your smartphone) will do the trick. Add biometrics if you're paranoid.

- Something you have

- Something you know

- Something you are

One of my banks have them, but if you lose it, have it stolen, or it gets broken, you're in some trouble.

No, you simply get a new one.

Great. I'm sure you do get a new one.

How do you get a new one when your bank is in Russin/UK/America/Europe etc and you are on holiday on Phuket for 10 nights????????

How do you get your money out for your holiday?

Even if someone is back home and gets your post and gives you the code over the phone, you are still waiting 3 days to access your money.

[KED]

Interesting that banks from western countries cover the losses from fraud while Thailand banks do not.

[stevenl]

A simple authenticator (either as a keyring device or as a free app on your smartphone) will do the trick. Add biometrics if you're paranoid.

- Something you have

- Something you know

- Something you are

One of my banks have them, but if you lose it, have it stolen, or it gets broken, you're in some trouble.

No, you simply get a new one.

Great. I'm sure you do get a new one.

How do you get a new one when your bank is in Russin/UK/America/Europe etc and you are on holiday on Phuket for 10 nights????????

How do you get your money out for your holiday?

Even if someone is back home and gets your post and gives you the code over the phone, you are still waiting 3 days to access your money.

So now you've already gone to the point where you need one to get money from an ATM?

Is not going to happen.

[RogueLeader]

Skimming is becoming more and more prevalent - what are the banks doing to ensure their ATM's are skim-free?

Also, the news report shows 3 people and lists 3 names - but then it switches to 4 and then back to 3...who edits these articles?

I have always wondered WHY the banks can't have an OTP (one time password) sent via SMS for every ATM transaction, just like they do for internet banking transactions.

The "skimmer" would also have to steal your phone - highly unlikely.

Surely this would be easy to implement and would make skimming a thing of the past, virtually overnight.

If that happened and I were a thief, I'd switch from skimming to mugging so I could be sure of getting the phone too.

You do know that SMS has a default timeout of three days, and some aren't delivered at all, don't you? What happens when you're standing at a busy ATM waiting for several minutes for a verificaiton SMS that might never arrive? Do you think banks haven't considered this? Fortunately, they tend to think ideas through to the end rather than just posting on a web forum demanding to know why other people aren't doing them NOW.

Edited April 15, 2013 by RogueLeader

[technologybytes]

It's not at all clear from this article how or where they were skimming the actual customer cards. In the photo we see the cards, 2 card readers, 1 card reader/writer and a couple of laptops. None of the items in the photo would have been used to skim cards at ATM's.

The woman who lost 100,000 says it was taken from Vietnam, that sounds odd as they have strict daily limits on withdrawals in Vietnam for foreign cards regardless of the cards own limit, also it's unlikely to have been withdrawn by these guys unless they just got back from Vietnam.

The usual MO is for the details to be skimmed in one country, then emailed to a gang like this to withdraw the money on a percentage basis. It would be unusual for the gang to be involved in skimming and using the cards at the same time.

[Jimi007]

Interesting that banks from western countries cover the losses from fraud while Thailand banks do not.

Yes it is. That's why I have two accounts with one Thai bank. I simply go online and transfer the amount I want to withdraw from the ATM to the account with little to no money in it...

[NamKangMan]

@ stevenl

It would be very easy to implement. Similar software is already in use for internet banking.

There are no "roaming charges" to receive an SMS. Second time I have mentioned that.

Australia has one of the highest mobile phone ownership statistics in the world, per capita, for a country of only 22 million people. See below link. (dated 2007 - I am sure the stats are higher now)

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/med_tel_mob_cel_percap-telephones-mobile-cellular-per-capita

Also, the phone only needs to receive an SMS. It can be any cheap basic phone, or an old phone. It doesn't have to be an expensive smart phone.

"A losing proposition" is what the banks are doing now - and that is, NOTHING.

In relation to the little code generating keyring, I declined to have one for the reasons I mentioned. Another member suggested they be used with an ATM, not myself.

Edited April 15, 2013 by NamKangMan

[Jimi007]

@ stevenl

It would be very easy to implement. Similar software is already in use for internet banking.

There are no "roaming charges" to receive an SMS. Second time I have mentioned that.

Australia has one of the highest mobile phone ownership statistics in the world, per capita, for a country of only 22 million people. See below link. (dated 2007 - I am sure the stats are higher now)

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/med_tel_mob_cel_percap-telephones-mobile-cellular-per-capita

Also, the phone only needs to receive an SMS. It can be any cheap basic phone, or an old phone. It doesn't have to be an expensive smart phone.

"A losing proposition" is what the banks are doing now - and that is, NOTHING.

My US phone will not receive an SMS from the US or anywhere else here in Thailand. My US carrier uses CDMA phones. It use to work, but no more. So much for that "solution."

[stevenl]

@ stevenl

It would be very easy to implement. Similar software is already in use for internet banking.

There are no "roaming charges" to receive an SMS. Second time I have mentioned that.

Australia has one of the highest mobile phone ownership statistics in the world, per capita, for a country of only 22 million people. See below link. (dated 2007 - I am sure the stats are higher now)

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/med_tel_mob_cel_percap-telephones-mobile-cellular-per-capita

Also, the phone only needs to receive an SMS. It can be any cheap basic phone, or an old phone. It doesn't have to be an expensive smart phone.

"A losing proposition" is what the banks are doing now - and that is, NOTHING.

There are roaming charges for an SMS from many countries. If not for receiving it has to be for sending. Maybe not from yours, but for many others there are. Who is going to pay for those, the banks? Second time I have mentioned this.

Many banks don't use this software but more advanced software, you were the one talking about smartphones, which have now disappeared from your stat, and no, no losing proposition for the banks at the moment, and no, they are not doing nothing. They are taking action, what and how depends on where you are from (or better, where your bank is from and which bank you're using).

Edited April 15, 2013 by stevenl

[NamKangMan]

@ RogueLeader

I would like to know the stats for "delayed" SMS compared to SMS received instantly - it would be a small percentage, but you are correct, it does happen.

I offered a suggestion of a transaction of $100 or less would not trigger the OTP feature. So, if your SMS is delayed, $100 will feed you, or put gas in the tank etc etc and you can try again later.

It was only a suggestion. I haven't claimed to have perfecetd the idea. :)

I have OTP for my Kasikorn internet banking. If Kasikorn offered it to me for ATM use, I would gladly accept the service. Each to their own.

[clockman]

Interesting that banks from western countries cover the losses from fraud while Thailand banks do not.

What else can we expect, no transparency here.!

[NamKangMan]

@ stevenl

It would be very easy to implement. Similar software is already in use for internet banking.

There are no "roaming charges" to receive an SMS. Second time I have mentioned that.

Australia has one of the highest mobile phone ownership statistics in the world, per capita, for a country of only 22 million people. See below link. (dated 2007 - I am sure the stats are higher now)

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/med_tel_mob_cel_percap-telephones-mobile-cellular-per-capita

Also, the phone only needs to receive an SMS. It can be any cheap basic phone, or an old phone. It doesn't have to be an expensive smart phone.

"A losing proposition" is what the banks are doing now - and that is, NOTHING.

There are roaming charges for an SMS from many countries. If not for receiving it has to be for sending. Maybe not from yours, but for many others there are. Who is going to pay for those, the banks? Second time I have mentioned this.

Many banks don't use this software but more advanced software, you were the one talking about smartphones, which have now disappeared from your stat, and no, no losing proposition for the banks at the moment, and no, they are not doing nothing. They are taking action, what and how depends on where you are from (or better, where your bank is from and which bank you're using).

Yes, there are roam charges to send a SMS - I was talking about receiving the SMS. Obviously, the bank, one way or another, would pass on the cost to the consumer.

What "advanced software" are you talking about????

"Chips" have been entered to the credit/debit cards - but they can also be "read." Tell me, what have the banks done to the ATM to stop skimming????

[RefinedGentleman]

Interesting names for a couple of "Frenchmen."

[NamKangMan]

@ stevenl

It would be very easy to implement. Similar software is already in use for internet banking.

There are no "roaming charges" to receive an SMS. Second time I have mentioned that.

Australia has one of the highest mobile phone ownership statistics in the world, per capita, for a country of only 22 million people. See below link. (dated 2007 - I am sure the stats are higher now)

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/med_tel_mob_cel_percap-telephones-mobile-cellular-per-capita

Also, the phone only needs to receive an SMS. It can be any cheap basic phone, or an old phone. It doesn't have to be an expensive smart phone.

"A losing proposition" is what the banks are doing now - and that is, NOTHING.

My US phone will not receive an SMS from the US or anywhere else here in Thailand. My US carrier uses CDMA phones. It use to work, but no more. So much for that "solution."

Of course, you could also just give your US bank your Thai number. :)

[stevenl]

Have fun NKM, I'm not going further in another pointless discussion with you, as usual your twisting and turning everything that has been said. You've thrown your mud at the wall again, it doesn't stick.

[stevehaigh]

i always cover the keypad with my other hand so cameras and onlookers can't see the pin i'm entering. this should be safe right? the skimmers only get the card number, not the pin i think?

[NamKangMan]

Interesting that banks from western countries cover the losses from fraud while Thailand banks do not.

Yes it is. That's why I have two accounts with one Thai bank. I simply go online and transfer the amount I want to withdraw from the ATM to the account with little to no money in it...

Me Same Same.