Three Foreigners Arrested Over A T M Fraud In Phuket

[jbrain]

"Inconvenient" - what, entering on the key pad an extra few numbers???? Most people are with their smart phone 24/7 these days. A smart phone has become like a watch/wallet/wedding ring. It goes where you go. Now what would be inconvenient is having your card skimmed and then having to cancel your card and wait around 6 weeks for your bank, if you are lucky, to refund you the money. I have no doubt these skimmers have ended many tourist's holidays by cleaning out their bank account.

Have you ever behind a Thai at the ATM and noticed how long it takes them to make transaction, because they have to look up their password somewhere, then have to figure out what all those choices are that appear on the screen. So you want to extend that a bit more by sending an OTP that may take some time to arrive and then they have to figure out what they have to do ?

"Roaming charges" - there are none to receive an SMS. There is to send one, but you are not sending, only receiving. [/quote ]

No roaming charges you say ? And what would you think about a few hundred Baht each sms? By default these kind of messages are blocked by the Thai operators because they are so expensive. I found out because I needed to receive one once from my home country bank , which didn't arrive, so I called AIS and they explained to me. Next I emailed my bank and they confirmed that the cost could indeed be extensive and they had no control about.

[Jimi007]

Problem, reaction, solution. Nothing is changed in the scam schemes. First, banks allow skimming of their credit card, second, they wait for a reaction of public, and at last they propose a solution - to implant a micro-chip into everybody for easy identification of a person. Well done, the NWO servants!

The ATM cards with the micro chips I was told by Bangkok Bank will only work with their ATMs. So that is not an international solution, from what I have read and been told. The ATM cards with the VISA and Matercard logos, usually different banks, will work internationally from personal experience.

[Djaotchou]

Phuket expat skimmed for B100,000Claire ConnellAli Goebel.PHUKET: -- Phuket expat Ali Goebel is issuing advice to other ATM users after B100,000 was skimmed from her bank account on Saturday while in Hua Hin – cover your hand when you’re entering your pincode.Mrs Goebel had B100,000 taken out of her Citibank account in 11 transactions on Saturday (April 13), with bank records showing the money was taken from an ATM in Vietnam.She was alerted via an email from the bank, which questioned the multiple transactions. A phone call stopped any further withdrawals, but by that time the skimmers had already taken a large amount of cash.“The withdrawals started at US$50, then up to US$85, then US$100, US$200 and then US$400. And finally it was stopped at B100,000. It is scary. It is lucky I caught it because that account had B200,000 in it and they could have got it all.”Mrs Goebel, who has lived in Phuket for six years, said a cash fraud investigation was already under way by Citibank.“I’m disputing the transactions, and I’ve sent some paperwork to them. It could take up to two months but I will get the money back.”When she called the bank and asked how it might have happened, Ms Goebel was told the skimmers attach some sort of scanner to the ATM, and set up a camera so they can video you entering your pin.She said that ATM users should use cover their hand when entering their pin on an ATM, to avoid being videoed if there was a camera set up.“The bank also said it is better to use bank ATM machines as they are safer. I use the ATMs at Family Marts and 7-Elevens.”Mrs Goebel said Citibank had been “excellent” to deal with, and she was thankful she would get the money returned.Skimming from ATMs has been a hot topic on the island for many years.Yesterday (April 14), two Frenchmen and a Tunisian were arrested for skimming.Evidence collected by the police included a laptop computer with card reader, 70 ATM and credit cards with passwords written on them, and 6,000 Euros and B134,000 in cash.Earlier this year, Australian Robert Millard made headlines when B90,000 was skimmed from his Krungsri bank account in April 2012, withdrawn in Pattaya while he was in Phuket.Mr Millard is still trying to get the money back, but so far has been unsuccessful.Source: http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-expat-skimmed-for-b100-000-38665.php

-- Phuket News 2013-04-15

Strange. I'm with Citibank and there is a ATM cash withdrawal limit of 20,000 baht per day inside or outside Thailand.

20,000 baht is the minimum, but you can ask for more, some friends of mine lost 1.4 million baht, they had a withdrawal limit of 200,000 per day at Siam Commercial Bank, 7 days and it was done... It was in June last year, they are still waiting for a refund.

[Danbit]

Interesting that banks from western countries cover the losses from fraud while Thailand banks do not.

You can set up a camera to record the ATM user and software can block it if you can´t see the face. But it is too expensive compared with the cost if they cover the losses. They earn much on ATM from cards from abroad.

[slipperylobster]

What lunacy. Still will not buy a phone to get money no matter what your preferences are. Good luck on the holidays standing ing line waiting for a phone call. lol

[Jimi007]

What lunacy. Still will not buy a phone to get money no matter what your preferences are. Good luck on the holidays standing ing line waiting for a phone call. lol

Agree! Have you ever been behind Thais at an ATM and on the phone to the family trying to transfer funds? It's painful! Funny, I get crap on this same board for saying there should be a lifeguard at Nai Harn Lagoon, and getting a response; "if I want a nanny state", then people bitch about it when they aren't careful with their ATM cards! I was a victim of ID theft once. Back in 1976! LOL! True story! Universities did and still do use Social Security numbers as your student ID. Now at least they leave off some digits!

Edited April 15, 2013 by Jimi007

[NamKangMan]

am I hearing this correctly? Suggesting I need carry my cellphone everytime I travel to a foreign country? That means a different sim card for each place. Also, it is just wrong to say everyone carries a phone. I don't. It is not convenient for me to have my wife calling me when I am doing OTHER things. If its an emergency, there are plenty of phones available. People only started showing their power with cellphones in the last 10 years. I was so happy not to hear ringing phones when I was away from work. Imagine trying to get money from an ATM to buy a load for the damn phone only for the ATM to say your phone number is unreachable. LOL. damn good laugh. Lets fix the problem, not make more problems with one more link in the chain. Long lines of people screwing with their phones at the ATM should be added to the list of inconveniences.

They do have and "on and off" button. Did you know that? :)

[NamKangMan]

What lunacy. Still will not buy a phone to get money no matter what your preferences are. Good luck on the holidays standing ing line waiting for a phone call. lol

You obviously have no idea what an SMS is.

[Dr Wanchai]

I was glad when i read the headline the media used the word foreigners! Just to leave things in the middle and dont let the public be overgudgemental about certain country's.

Then i saw the picture, THEN is saw the first sentence..

No Blittish ?

Wot a surprise !

Or a relief ?

[lostinisaan]

At a press conference this morning (April 15), Mhoussin Mahamond, 22, and Ganzouai Zaidi, 29, both French citizens, along with, Tunisian Adjemi Ramzi, 31, were presented to the media, along with evidence seized by police.

​I'm amazed how the world has changed living here in Thailand for so long. The first two guys must be from Morocco, or Tunisia. Sure, they'll get a French passport after three years staying there, even if they can't count from one to three in French.

​The Tunisian seemed to be in the process of getting European citizenship. One mor reason not to go back to Europe. Most people there don't speak my native tongue. And I'm not racist.

Edited April 15, 2013 by lostinisaan

[slipperylobster]

What lunacy. Still will not buy a phone to get money no matter what your preferences are. Good luck on the holidays standing ing line waiting for a phone call. lol

You obviously have no idea what an SMS is.

As you have no idea whatsoever.

[lostinisaan]

I was glad when i read the headline the media used the word foreigners! Just to leave things in the middle and dont let the public be overgudgemental about certain country's.

Then i saw the picture, THEN is saw the first sentence..

No Blittish ?

Wot a surprise !

Or a relief ?

With all respect, but please do not post such nonsense any more.

[lostinisaan]

What lunacy. Still will not buy a phone to get money no matter what your preferences are. Good luck on the holidays standing ing line waiting for a phone call. lol

You obviously have no idea what an SMS is.

As you have no idea whatsoever.

Is it possible that some TV members don't know what b a l l s stands for?

[lostinisaan]

What lunacy. Still will not buy a phone to get money no matter what your preferences are. Good luck on the holidays standing ing line waiting for a phone call. lol

You obviously have no idea what an SMS is.

Doesn't it mean " Save My Soul?"

[NamKangMan]

@ RogueLeader

I would like to know the stats for "delayed" SMS compared to SMS received instantly - it would be a small percentage, but you are correct, it does happen.

I offered a suggestion of a transaction of $100 or less would not trigger the OTP feature. So, if your SMS is delayed, $100 will feed you, or put gas in the tank etc etc and you can try again later.

It was only a suggestion. I haven't claimed to have perfecetd the idea.

I have OTP for my Kasikorn internet banking. If Kasikorn offered it to me for ATM use, I would gladly accept the service. Each to their own.

So, a person is standing at an ATM and has entered their PIN. They see a message on the screen saying "Please input authorisation code". The code doesn't arrive. What happens? What do you tell the customer to do? What if they cancel the transaction them try later with the same code? How do you handle it when the wrong code is used? How do you map auth codes to withdrawal attempts? What do I do if I lose my phone and lose access to my money?

Can you imagine what would happen if a spike in cash demand coincided with a spike in SMS usage, like, say, New Year's Eve or Songkhran? How would that impact local businesses, if no-one in Bangkok or Chiang Mai or Pattaya is able to withdraw money to spend?

Do you see why implementation is far more involved than just having an idea?

The idea is sound, but the SMS delivery mechanism just isn't sufficiently reliable. I know of several companies who issue their staff with a constantly-refreshing access code using a specialised key fob that updates automatically. That works because delivery is guaranteed and predictable. I think it would probably be too expensive for a bank with millions of customers, many of whom aren't particularly profitable.

Code doesn't arrive - they press cancel or select, for example, $100 to get them by which does not need a OTP. Obviously, they come back later for a larger amount.

Every New Years Eve I sent a group SMS to everyone on my phone. I send it at about 11:55pm in my home country. This would probably be the busiest time you could get - to date, they all received the SMS in a timely fashion. However, I do agree, sometime SMS are delayed.

I have often typed in the wrong OTP when internet banking - just a typo. That takes me back a step in the transaction and a new OTP must be requested. Simple.

If you lose your phone, you can still withdraw $100, $500 or whatever you bank allows without an OTP. You won't go hungry until you get a new sim card and phone, but it will stop the skimmers cleaning the account out. Also, if in your home country, where 99.9% of everyday ATM transactions will occur, all around the world, you can also go into the branch with some ID. Nothing new there.

If you lose one of the keychain access code things, you are still in the same boat. Anyway, they are just another thing to carry. I'm sure a smart phone is capable of generating the same code. Maybe the bank could develop an APP for it.

Like I said, if Kasikorn offered it to me, I would use the service, it may not be for everyone. They could skim my card as much as they like, but they also need to steal my phone to take any money from my account.

They have it with internet banking, I could see a use for the same idea at the ATM.

Edited April 15, 2013 by NamKangMan

[marioc]

Interesting that banks from western countries cover the losses from fraud while Thailand banks do not.

Yes it is. That's why I have two accounts with one Thai bank. I simply go online and transfer the amount I want to withdraw from the ATM to the account with little to no money in it...

As for me it is almost the same.... my credit/ATM card limit is 15.000 Bath regardless withdrawing or buying in shops.... and if i need to use more money I just top up for the amount of money needed before......

[NamKangMan]

Problem, reaction, solution. Nothing is changed in the scam schemes. First, banks allow skimming of their credit card, second, they wait for a reaction of public, and at last they propose a solution - to implant a micro-chip into everybody for easy identification of a person. Well done, the NWO servants!

The ATM cards with the micro chips I was told by Bangkok Bank will only work with their ATMs. So that is not an international solution, from what I have read and been told. The ATM cards with the VISA and Matercard logos, usually different banks, will work internationally from personal experience.

With many banks now, you have to ring them and tell them the card will be used overseas Eg. Thailand, during in the next 2 weeks.

I have come across many tourists at ATM's where their card didn't work. I asked them if they rang their bank and told them they were going overseas on holidays. They didn't.

This is also an anti theft measure, but obviously, you can still be skimmed in your own country.

[NamKangMan]

What lunacy. Still will not buy a phone to get money no matter what your preferences are. Good luck on the holidays standing ing line waiting for a phone call. lol

You obviously have no idea what an SMS is.

Doesn't it mean " Save My Soul?"

"Save My Sanity" - some people just refuse to embrace technology.

[mancub]

Well, that's 3 undesirable "guests" accounted for ...and good riddance ,although it seems that they spent more ,and stayed longer than the average tourist ...............

[lostinisaan]

What lunacy. Still will not buy a phone to get money no matter what your preferences are. Good luck on the holidays standing ing line waiting for a phone call. lol

You obviously have no idea what an SMS is.

Doesn't it mean " Save My Soul?"

"Save My Sanity" - some people just refuse to embrace technology.

You obviously don't understand what's going on around you. Get better soon.

[youngXpat]

Well, that's 3 undesirable "guests" accounted for ...and good riddance ,although it seems that they spent more ,and stayed longer than the average tourist ...............

Agreed.

Sorry not to rattle on about 'SMS' and smartphones like Mr Know-It-All but I do hope they enjoy themselves in the monkey house!

[lostinisaan]

Problem, reaction, solution. Nothing is changed in the scam schemes. First, banks allow skimming of their credit card, second, they wait for a reaction of public, and at last they propose a solution - to implant a micro-chip into everybody for easy identification of a person. Well done, the NWO servants!

The ATM cards with the micro chips I was told by Bangkok Bank will only work with their ATMs. So that is not an international solution, from what I have read and been told. The ATM cards with the VISA and Matercard logos, usually different banks, will work internationally from personal experience.

With many banks now, you have to ring them and tell them the card will be used overseas Eg. Thailand, during in the next 2 weeks.

I have come across many tourists at ATM's where their card didn't work. I asked them if they rang their bank and told them they were going overseas on holidays. They didn't.

This is also an anti theft measure, but obviously, you can still be skimmed in your own country.

Can't you order an ABS and airbag package when going that far?

[axact]

What lunacy. Still will not buy a phone to get money no matter what your preferences are. Good luck on the holidays standing ing line waiting for a phone call. lol

You obviously have no idea what an SMS is.

Doesn't it mean " Save My Soul?"

"Save My Sanity" - some people just refuse to embrace technology.

Thats the advantage in living in a democratic world, you do not have to embrace technology, its called freedom. Just because you wish big brother to have all your details does not mean everyone feels the same.

If the code via sms system were introduced how long before the theives would have the technology to get around it ?

[thailandist]

Skimming is becoming more and more prevalent - what are the banks doing to ensure their ATM's are skim-free?

Also, the news report shows 3 people and lists 3 names - but then it switches to 4 and then back to 3...who edits these articles?

I have always wondered WHY the banks can't have an OTP (one time password) sent via SMS for every ATM transaction, just like they do for internet banking transactions.

The "skimmer" would also have to steal your phone - highly unlikely.

Surely this would be easy to implement and would make skimming a thing of the past, virtually overnight.

Annoying but possible solution for locals. Not much help for tourists since everyone does not travel with cell phones and the card holders foreign bank would have to be a part of that system.

[Jimi007]

Problem, reaction, solution. Nothing is changed in the scam schemes. First, banks allow skimming of their credit card, second, they wait for a reaction of public, and at last they propose a solution - to implant a micro-chip into everybody for easy identification of a person. Well done, the NWO servants!

The ATM cards with the micro chips I was told by Bangkok Bank will only work with their ATMs. So that is not an international solution, from what I have read and been told. The ATM cards with the VISA and Matercard logos, usually different banks, will work internationally from personal experience.

With many banks now, you have to ring them and tell them the card will be used overseas Eg. Thailand, during in the next 2 weeks.

I have come across many tourists at ATM's where their card didn't work. I asked them if they rang their bank and told them they were going overseas on holidays. They didn't.

This is also an anti theft measure, but obviously, you can still be skimmed in your own country.

This thread is rather amusing to me at this point. My "Platinum Privileges Reward" credit card has a chip in it. None of my ATM cards do (I have four), because I use them internationally! I also have a really cool card called "safe pass" it generates OTP passwords at the push of a button anywhere in the world! It's the size and thickness of a credit card with an LCD display! It still is only used for online banking, not for ATM or credit card transactions... And yes, you do need to notify your bank if you are using a debit or credit card outside of your home country in the west at least. When I put my BKK Bank ATM card in a US ATM it gave me my account balance right away.

Edited April 15, 2013 by Jimi007

[NamKangMan]

@ axact

Mobile phone encryption is pretty rock solid these days, despite the UK phone hacking scandal.

As for "do not have to embrace technology" I expect you to hand back your ATM cards tomorrow and go back to having just the passbook and over the counter transactions, during business hours only.

Also, I remind you that you posted using a compuer and the internet.

As for "big brother" - you are living in a country where you have to report to immigration every 90 days, like a criminal reporting on bail, with your address. They also have your photo on file from when nyou first arrived. You are also "registered" at your address, or should be, by the manager/landlord.

Edited April 15, 2013 by NamKangMan

[Guest]

I would think that the amount of money which is skimmed is minuscule compared to the cost of the system to enable international SMS pin code verification.

At this point is good to start to think of the magnitude of the system. Specifications, agreements between banks, mobile operators, etc. ATM software upgrades, backend system upgrades. Clarifying who owns the customer mobile number information. Who overviews all of this?

What messages will be sent from the ATM to local bank to foreign bank, to foreign mobile operator, to local mobile operator, to the mobile device.. and verifications.

After this it's time to think what if scenarios. What happens if some fisherman cut's and internet backbone and wide area routing is messed up for 15 minutes.. That's only one very simplified branch of what could ever go wrong while a person is waiting for SMS at the ATM, which never came.. or could not be verified.

It's all but simple and will cost way more than few millions or tens of millions euros which are lost due ATM skimming.

[Westaurel]

I hate this american arrestation bad way to show the faces of criminals, there is no respect of private life ! These criminals are forced to hide their face it's pathetic. And the f... policemen laughing of pride that they just little moved their a... to do their job !

[Westaurel]

Amazing to see it's farang doing that in Thailand as it's Eastern Europe and Balkans criminals doing it in Western Europe !

[NamKangMan]

Problem, reaction, solution. Nothing is changed in the scam schemes. First, banks allow skimming of their credit card, second, they wait for a reaction of public, and at last they propose a solution - to implant a micro-chip into everybody for easy identification of a person. Well done, the NWO servants!

The ATM cards with the micro chips I was told by Bangkok Bank will only work with their ATMs. So that is not an international solution, from what I have read and been told. The ATM cards with the VISA and Matercard logos, usually different banks, will work internationally from personal experience.

With many banks now, you have to ring them and tell them the card will be used overseas Eg. Thailand, during in the next 2 weeks.

I have come across many tourists at ATM's where their card didn't work. I asked them if they rang their bank and told them they were going overseas on holidays. They didn't.

This is also an anti theft measure, but obviously, you can still be skimmed in your own country.

This thread is rather amusing to me at this point. My "Platinum Privileges Reward" credit card has a chip in it. None of my ATM cards do (I have four), because I use them internationally! I also have a really cool card called "safe pass" it generates OTP passwords at the push of a button anywhere in the world! It's the size and thickness of a credit card with an LCD display! It still is only used for online banking, not for ATM or credit card transactions... And yes, you do need to notify your bank if you are using a debit or credit card outside of your home country in the west at least. When I put my BKK Bank ATM card in a US ATM it gave me my account balance right away.

I agree. There has been some funny posts. I'm sure many have found my idea amusing as well.

It was just an idea. It's a service I would use, it may not be for everyone.

It's funny how you can do an internet bank transaction in the safety of your own home, using a secure connection to the bank, VPN's, firewalls, antivirus etc and the bank requires a OTP for that transaction, but at the ATM, very little security, just a magnetic strip and only one four digit PIN number required. There's a camera filming the transaction, that's about it.

Anyway, anyone would think I suggested a DNA sample must be lodged for every ATM transaction. :)