Three Foreigners Arrested Over A T M Fraud In Phuket

[cup-O-coffee]

A very very interesting read. I guess this means that cash isn't dead yet. eh? I mean, if the crooks are doing this, then what about the noble people who write the laws and own the keyboards?

At the end of the day, never ever let your credit card out of your sight. At petrol stations, pay cash and forget the <deleted> bonus points on your card for a 1700 THB fill-up. It isn't worth it.

At the bars and merchants, never let it out of your sight and Google "skimming" to be aware of employee motions and how they are kitted up when they swipe your card.

If we wait around for the police and banks and government, etc. to protect our rights, then we may as well believe that praying produces results as well.

Once you you let your credit card or your passport or anything of importance to you out of your sight and under the possession of a third party, it becomes YOUR fault; not the creator of that item. If you don't trust it, then move on. My mother and father did fine for over 50 years without credit cards.

[stevenl]

I have a good idea, Why dont the banks let you pick a pin (password) that has 6 digits but is not too difficult for you to remember, e.g: 162434 then when you put your card the ATM asks you to imput only 3 of those numbers, for example, the first, fourth, and fifth number. Then next time (for example), the second, third, and fifth, that way if someone scammed your pin then they will only have the 3 digits of a 6 digit code. It would be very difficult for the scammers to 'guess' your other 3 numbers and after 3 failed attempts the card should be 'swallowed' then reported thus saving the banks having to pay you out?

..Just an idea, please dont hammer me for my simple idea.. ha ha.

Apparently China already has 6 digits, they could be on their way here. I like the idea, but think it would be too difficult to implement, too many people would have problems with the system.

But still, why did you give my PINcode away here?

[TackyToo]

Skimming is becoming more and more prevalent - what are the banks doing to ensure their ATM's are skim-free?

Also, the news report shows 3 people and lists 3 names - but then it switches to 4 and then back to 3...who edits these articles?

...who edits these articles?

It's the freelancer working for most of the English publications in LOS. They call him the "wizards of ooops"

[youngXpat]

Interesting that banks from western countries cover the losses from fraud while Thailand banks do not.

Yup and I can vouch for that ... 8 years ago I lost my Bangkok Bank ATM card in Canada and didn't notice it till I was back 3 weeks later as didn't need to use it there.. well let me tell you that 657,000 Baht later when I went to Bangkok Bank on Taphae Rd in Chiang Mai they were total <deleted> in dealing with this... for weeks on end and everyday withdrawals of the same amount 10 - 12 times every day and nobody in Bangkok Bank in Head office got suspicious and this went on for almost 3 weeks ... Pfff.. However when I needed a new bank book I had to fill in umpteen forms and have my passport photocopied and sign it at least 3 times just to get a New Stupid Bank book ... but did their brains work when they saw day after day the same amount of money been taking out 10 - 12 times every day ... Duhh!!!... And then give me the run around for a whole year and not support me one bit while I was trying to file a police case here and in Canada .. I finally gave up and lost out on a huge amount of money and Bangkok Bank just didn't give a hoot ... I even went to a lawyer (Sunbelt) to try and pressure them to at least give me what I needed for the Canadian Police to pursue the investigation which they were refusing to give me ,,,, and what was I told... Umm Khun Annabel ,,, cannot ... big case and big company and would cost more than your loss so in other words.. go home and forget it and swallow your minimal loss

This is why I have "SMS alerts" on the bank account from my home country. For every transaction on that account I receive an SMS and an email. I pay a small fee for the SMS (no roaming charges) and the email is for free.

I'm in Thailand and if there is a withdrawal from my home country that shouldn't have occurred, I know about it straight away and I can get straight on the phone to cancel the card. Even if they had that system here (maybe they do now - I haven't checked) it would go a long way to minimising the loss of the victims and making skimming a less profitable crime.

If the bank in my home country can do it, why not Thai banks???? It would have certainly stopped what happened to you.

As mentioned above, the SMS alert from BKK Bank and Ayutthaya Bank are already up and running, one just needs to register.

Definitely a good idea to keep minimal funds in the account you are drawing from. The money I save here, leaves my current account and goes straight into a passbook account, no card just the good ol' Thai-loved passbook!

[belg]

nice traditional FRENCH names ...

aka import 2nd or 3rd generation

[giztate]

Interesting that banks from western countries cover the losses from fraud while Thailand banks do not.

Yes it is. That's why I have two accounts with one Thai bank. I simply go online and transfer the amount I want to withdraw from the ATM to the account with little to no money in it...

That is exactly what I do.

I have 2 accounts with SCB. One of them holds large amount of money and is non ATM account, so the only way to withdraw cash is a passbook and go into the bank or I transfer to my other SCB ATM CARD account online.

The same with my other 2 accounts with K bank. I only transfer what i need to withdraw and it's the safest way to not loose any money as it must be quite stressful losing cash and sometimes these Thai banks are very very unhelpful.

[RogueLeader]

What lunacy. Still will not buy a phone to get money no matter what your preferences are. Good luck on the holidays standing ing line waiting for a phone call. lol

You obviously have no idea what an SMS is.

Doesn't it mean " Save My Soul?"

"Save My Sanity" - some people just refuse to embrace technology.

I design and implement systems very similar to the one you've described. It really isn't as simple as you think it is. Millions of people have very good ideas every day, but the difficult part is implementing them, and without implementation ideas are no more useful than hallucinations.

Edited April 16, 2013 by RogueLeader

[A2Distribution]

Real French names ???

My banking account at the Bangkok Bank got robbed for more than 75,000 THB by someone using my credit card number, expiration date and CVC-code, I only had for 2 months, over a year ago on internet payments. I had several proves that it wasn't me. I have never used the creditcard except in ATM of the same Bangkok Bank. I have filled a complaint at the police station. I haven't seen 1 THB back yet. Officially it is still under investigation by the Bangkok Bank.

I will never see this money again, is my opinion.

[NamKangMan]

@RogueLeader

Strange, seems to work fine when doing an online transaction.

Also, other members, like myself, who have two accounts, and frequently move money onto the account which has an ATM card, have not complained of the OTP "system" being unreliable.

Since you design system like this, can you tell me the difference between ebetering a OTP on the leyboard of your computer, or entering the OTP on the keypad of the ATM?

[NamKangMan]

There appears to be a lot of members who have been skimmed here.

Using ATM's here may be a little higher risk than I anticipated.

[maidu]

Real French names ???

My banking account at the Bangkok Bank got robbed for more than 75,000 THB by someone using my credit card number, expiration date and CVC-code, I only had for 2 months, over a year ago on internet payments. I had several proves that it wasn't me. I have never used the creditcard except in ATM of the same Bangkok Bank. I have filled a complaint at the police station. I haven't seen 1 THB back yet. Officially it is still under investigation by the Bangkok Bank.

I will never see this money again, is my opinion.

I have to agree. Here is the equation:

Eagerness to please + faux friendliness of young bank workers = Bank management's unwillingness to do the right thing when things go pear shaped.

There appears to be a lot of members who have been skimmed here.

Using ATM's here may be a little higher risk than I anticipated.

Yes, ATM's can be risky. It's particularly scary for middle aged farang in Thailand, because their ATM card is their tenuous lifeline to money. Without an ATM card and a happy-go-lucky attitude, the number of farang with cute young g'f's would be 0.1% of what it ordinarily is. Here's an idea for an T-shirt seller. Sell 'em in pairs. The old guy wears the size xxxx shirt which says; 'Walking ATM' the 89 lb girl walking beside him wears the kid's size shirt which says 'I'm with Walking ATM'

[NamKangMan]

Real French names ???

My banking account at the Bangkok Bank got robbed for more than 75,000 THB by someone using my credit card number, expiration date and CVC-code, I only had for 2 months, over a year ago on internet payments. I had several proves that it wasn't me. I have never used the creditcard except in ATM of the same Bangkok Bank. I have filled a complaint at the police station. I haven't seen 1 THB back yet. Officially it is still under investigation by the Bangkok Bank.

I will never see this money again, is my opinion.

I have to agree. Here is the equation:

Eagerness to please + faux friendliness of young bank workers = Bank management's unwillingness to do the right thing when things go pear shaped.

>There appears to be a lot of members who have been skimmed here.

Using ATM's here may be a little higher risk than I anticipated.

Yes, ATM's can be risky. It's particularly scary for middle aged farang in Thailand, because their ATM card is their tenuous lifeline to money. Without an ATM card and a happy-go-lucky attitude, the number of farang with cute young g'f's would be 0.1% of what it ordinarily is. Here's an idea for an T-shirt seller. Sell 'em in pairs. The old guy wears the size xxxx shirt which says; 'Walking ATM' the 89 lb girl walking beside him wears the kid's size shirt which says 'I'm with Walking ATM'

Or, the guy's T-Shirt could say, "I've been skimmed" and the girl's T-Shirt could say, "I'm a skimmer." :)

[Jaybonnaza]

I'd like to point out for the earlier posts going by half the expats in Phuket - they have some shity looking 1990s phone- only a few have smart phones and they are based around nai harn surin and kata where as the avg expat in Rawai, Phuket town or Karon patong have old style Non smart phones.

Now for the Thais - same applies depends on their suture action but the elder generations typically have old style phones

So how on earth can you set up a smart phone app- how ridiculous

It's simple cover the keypad!!

[Jaybonnaza]

A very very interesting read. I guess this means that cash isn't dead yet. eh? I mean, if the crooks are doing this, then what about the noble people who write the laws and own the keyboards?

At the end of the day, never ever let your credit card out of your sight. At petrol stations, pay cash and forget the <deleted> bonus points on your card for a 1700 THB fill-up. It isn't worth it.

At the bars and merchants, never let it out of your sight and Google "skimming" to be aware of employee motions and how they are kitted up when they swipe your card.

If we wait around for the police and banks and government, etc. to protect our rights, then we may as well believe that praying produces results as well.

Once you you let your credit card or your passport or anything of importance to you out of your sight and under the possession of a third party, it becomes YOUR fault; not the creator of that item. If you don't trust it, then move on. My mother and father did fine for over 50 years without credit cards.

Your kidding right?

We use the petrol stations primarily for the credit card to keep my wife's credit limit strong switching from one card to the other as and when we need to feel the cars up .

3 cards limits 50k each And absolutely no problems at all with using them in

Singapore

Malaysia

Hongkong

Bangkok

Phuket

Trang

Krabbi

Tokyo

So where you get this from ill never know . As we have not been skimmed once and we get a txt as soon as it is charged

SCB

Tesco lotus

Kasikorn bank

All good and very secure

So don't be put off against using your credit card in a garage

[annabel]

Real French names ???

My banking account at the Bangkok Bank got robbed for more than 75,000 THB by someone using my credit card number, expiration date and CVC-code, I only had for 2 months, over a year ago on internet payments. I had several proves that it wasn't me. I have never used the creditcard except in ATM of the same Bangkok Bank. I have filled a complaint at the police station. I haven't seen 1 THB back yet. Officially it is still under investigation by the Bangkok Bank.

I will never see this money again, is my opinion.

You will definitely never see your money again I can assure you that !! I had a similar problem with Bangkok Bank about 7 years ago fr 650,000 Baht.... Had lost my / wallet / Thai ATM SCB card while in Canada not realizing that their card worked there as well also and was not restricted to Thailand only... the weirdest thing is that if you make a purchase YOU DO NOT NEED TO PUT IN THE PIN # ... You only have to sign and nobody checks signatures here or there ! AND THIS APPLIES TO ALL ATM CARDS ISSUED IN THAILAND !! However in the US and Canada you must enter your Pin # no matter what .... Here you only need to enter your Pin # if you are at an ATM Machine .. What a joke!! But if you want a new passbook you need umpteen photocopies ( Signed that too ) or your ID's ( Passport mostly ) + umpteen forms to fill and sign ... and soon to be = A Counter installed camera like Immigration has to take your pic ... Actually what am I talking about .. They already have them !!

[Mizkun]

A simple authenticator (either as a keyring device or as a free app on your smartphone) will do the trick. Add biometrics if you're paranoid.

- Something you have

- Something you know

- Something you are

One problem with biometrics, would you like to lose your thumb if a thief cuts it off to steal your bank card, a Ferrari owner a few years back got car jacked and the jackers stalled the car, when they could not restart it they walked back over to the guy and cut his hand of with a machete.

[maidu]

Years ago, there were stories in Mexico: a gringo (farang) would get kidnapped at 11:50 pm and taken to an ATM machine and compelled, at knife point, to take out the max amount. They'd wait a few minutes, until 12:01, and then take the max amount out again - then let the guy go. I don't know if it still happens there, and I hope I'm not giving anyone any bad ideas.

[Jimi007]

Years ago, there were stories in Mexico: a gringo (farang) would get kidnapped at 11:50 pm and taken to an ATM machine and compelled, at knife point, to take out the max amount. They'd wait a few minutes, until 12:01, and then take the max amount out again - then let the guy go. I don't know if it still happens there, and I hope I'm not giving anyone any bad ideas.

Nice story, but most likely untrue. With my US bank, Bank of America, that would never work. My ATM card has a 24 hour limit. After the first maximum withdrawal, I have to wait over 24 hours to make another withdrawal...

[pistachios]

Many posters seems surprised that the names of the culprits are not french sounding.

About 3 millions of french were not born french and acquired nationality later by naturalisation or marriage.

There is also 7 millions of french who are descendant of immigrants and became french just by being born there.

About 30% of immigrants come from morocco, algeria and tunisia. That's more than 3 millions of french from those origins. Because muslims women are forbidden to marry non muslim men, it's no surpise that there are a lot of french with arabic names.

Edited April 17, 2013 by pistachios

[NamKangMan]

I'd like to point out for the earlier posts going by half the expats in Phuket - they have some shity looking 1990s phone- only a few have smart phones and they are based around nai harn surin and kata where as the avg expat in Rawai, Phuket town or Karon patong have old style Non smart phones.

Now for the Thais - same applies depends on their suture action but the elder generations typically have old style phones

So how on earth can you set up a smart phone app- how ridiculous

It's simple cover the keypad!!

I was leaning more towards a SMS OTP, than an APP.

Anyway, after your transaction, be sure to press every button on the ATM keypad, even though you cover the keypad.

The skimmers clean the keypad, and then after you leave, apply fingerprint dust to reveal your 4 digit PIN. They can then have several attempts, but on different days, so the incorrect PIN attempts are reset, at the order of the digits for your PIN number.

[RogueLeader]

@RogueLeader

Strange, seems to work fine when doing an online transaction.

Also, other members, like myself, who have two accounts, and frequently move money onto the account which has an ATM card, have not complained of the OTP "system" being unreliable.

Since you design system like this, can you tell me the difference between ebetering a OTP on the leyboard of your computer, or entering the OTP on the keypad of the ATM?

Yes. If your online purchase fails because the SMS subsystem is congested, you won't go without money until it's cleared and the knock-on effect of absolutely everyone else being in the same position won't have a massive impact on the local economy.

Edited April 17, 2013 by RogueLeader

[Jimi007]

I'd like to point out for the earlier posts going by half the expats in Phuket - they have some shity looking 1990s phone- only a few have smart phones and they are based around nai harn surin and kata where as the avg expat in Rawai, Phuket town or Karon patong have old style Non smart phones.

Now for the Thais - same applies depends on their suture action but the elder generations typically have old style phones

So how on earth can you set up a smart phone app- how ridiculous

It's simple cover the keypad!!

I was leaning more towards a SMS OTP, than an APP.

Anyway, after your transaction, be sure to press every button on the ATM keypad, even though you cover the keypad.

The skimmers clean the keypad, and then after you leave, apply fingerprint dust to reveal your 4 digit PIN. They can then have several attempts, but on different days, so the incorrect PIN attempts are reset, at the order of the digits for your PIN number.

Once you're the CEO of Visa or Mastercard, you can try to implement what ever you think would be a good idea. Until then, you and the rest of us are stuck with the existing system, adapt and as you have posted you have, and get over it...

Edited April 17, 2013 by Jimi007

[NamKangMan]

I'd like to point out for the earlier posts going by half the expats in Phuket - they have some shity looking 1990s phone- only a few have smart phones and they are based around nai harn surin and kata where as the avg expat in Rawai, Phuket town or Karon patong have old style Non smart phones.

Now for the Thais - same applies depends on their suture action but the elder generations typically have old style phones

So how on earth can you set up a smart phone app- how ridiculous

It's simple cover the keypad!!

I was leaning more towards a SMS OTP, than an APP.

Anyway, after your transaction, be sure to press every button on the ATM keypad, even though you cover the keypad.

The skimmers clean the keypad, and then after you leave, apply fingerprint dust to reveal your 4 digit PIN. They can then have several attempts, but on different days, so the incorrect PIN attempts are reset, at the order of the digits for your PIN number.

Once you're the CEO of Visa or Mastercard, you can try to implement what ever you think would be a good idea. Until then, you and the rest of us are stuck with the existing system, adapt and as you have posted you have, and get over it...

So, we can put a man into space, do heart transplants etc etc etc etc but we can get around this criminal act. Really????

[Jimi007]

I'd like to point out for the earlier posts going by half the expats in Phuket - they have some shity looking 1990s phone- only a few have smart phones and they are based around nai harn surin and kata where as the avg expat in Rawai, Phuket town or Karon patong have old style Non smart phones.

Now for the Thais - same applies depends on their suture action but the elder generations typically have old style phones

So how on earth can you set up a smart phone app- how ridiculous

It's simple cover the keypad!!

I was leaning more towards a SMS OTP, than an APP.

Anyway, after your transaction, be sure to press every button on the ATM keypad, even though you cover the keypad.

The skimmers clean the keypad, and then after you leave, apply fingerprint dust to reveal your 4 digit PIN. They can then have several attempts, but on different days, so the incorrect PIN attempts are reset, at the order of the digits for your PIN number.

Once you're the CEO of Visa or Mastercard, you can try to implement what ever you think would be a good idea. Until then, you and the rest of us are stuck with the existing system, adapt and as you have posted you have, and get over it...

So, we can put a man into space, do heart transplants etc etc etc etc but we can get around this criminal act. Really????

Really! Your posting of your wonderful ideas here on TV are REALLY not going to change anything!

[NamKangMan]

@RogueLeader

Strange, seems to work fine when doing an online transaction.

Also, other members, like myself, who have two accounts, and frequently move money onto the account which has an ATM card, have not complained of the OTP "system" being unreliable.

Since you design system like this, can you tell me the difference between ebetering a OTP on the leyboard of your computer, or entering the OTP on the keypad of the ATM?

Yes. If your online purchase fails because the SMS subsystem is congested, you won't go without money until it's cleared and the knock-on effect of absolutely everyone else being in the same position won't have a massive impact on the local economy.

I was talking about internet banking. My Kasikorn online banking has the OTP system. It has never failed, not once, here, and in two other countries. Maybe I'm lucky, maybe that's the norm. Do you have this system. Has it ever been unreliable for you?

[Guest]

So, we can put a man into space, do heart transplants etc etc etc etc but we can get around this criminal act. Really????

After an careful and extensive study, the World found out that those were simple engineering tasks to do, compared to pleasing NamKangMan's mind.

[Jimi007]

@RogueLeader

Strange, seems to work fine when doing an online transaction.

Also, other members, like myself, who have two accounts, and frequently move money onto the account which has an ATM card, have not complained of the OTP "system" being unreliable.

Since you design system like this, can you tell me the difference between ebetering a OTP on the leyboard of your computer, or entering the OTP on the keypad of the ATM?

Yes. If your online purchase fails because the SMS subsystem is congested, you won't go without money until it's cleared and the knock-on effect of absolutely everyone else being in the same position won't have a massive impact on the local economy.

I was talking about internet banking. My Kasikorn online banking has the OTP system. It has never failed, not once, here, and in two other countries. Maybe I'm lucky, maybe that's the norm. Do you have this system. Has it ever been unreliable for you?

You have OTP for your ATM or online Banking? Apples and oranges as the saying goes... Read you bank contracts.

[HuskerDo]

On 4/15/2013 at 4:36 AM, NamKangMan said:

I have always wondered WHY the banks can't have an OTP (one time password) sent via SMS for every ATM transaction, just like they do for internet banking transactions.

The "skimmer" would also have to steal your phone - highly unlikely.

Surely this would be easy to implement and would make skimming a thing of the past, virtually overnight.

Great idea except not everyone has their phone on them 24/7. The world is not made up of just millennials. Also, it might slow the ATM line down quite a bit if there is a technical disruption or outage that keeps the OTP from getting to you immediately. Also, being outside of your home country could cause connectivity issues. 

[metisdead]

As this is a 6 year old topic and is out of date, topic is closed.