Twin Bomb Explosions Shatter Boston Marathon Finish Line

[Publicus]

Yes, the additional "suspects" are, according to the news bulletins, arrested and are going to appear in the U.S. District Court in Boston to be charged with giving false statements to investigators after the fact, and of obstruction of justice after the fact, specifically, acting at the request of Dzhokhar to dump some of his personal possessions at the college campus dorm and room. Apparently the "personal possessions" may have been potential evidence after the fact, which is why investigators combed the landfill that serves the campus..

Of the three additional suspects, two are from Khazikstan and the third is a U.S. citizen. They already have lawyers, but I haven't heard whether they are court appointed or hired apart from the court appointing a lawyer(s). The two foreign students already have appeared before a U.S. Immigration judge, supposedly on charges of overstaying their visas. They were brought in for questioning on the Friday after the bombing and have been detained since due to visa issues.

In the photo in Times Square which was taken before the bombings, the middle two are the foreign students. News organizations now are showing the faces of the two.

Presently all the charges involving everyone are still under seal and, again, as of this writing, the two or three haven't yet been brought before the U.S District Court, apparently to the same Magistrate Judge as in the case of Dzhokhar.

However, I still want more information concerning the possibility - perhaps the likelihood - that the elder brother had contact with terrorists while he was abroad, may well have had bomb training, and whether the parents in Chechnya, the mother in particular, may have had knowledge or suspicions about Tamerlan's time and activities while staying there.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Publicus

[Publicus]

The charges against the two Kazakh foreign student friends of Dzhokhar are heavy and strong. A third charge of destroying evidence has been added. The two aren't up for the death penalty based on their after the fact involvement, but they're going to go down for the full count of years in federal prison.

The third guy, the U.S. citizen, has known Dzhokha for a number of years before college, says he doesn't understand Russian so didn't know what was going on, took a nap. Charges against him are mild and he appeared in court today separately from the other two of Dzhokhar's friends. Things don't look so bad for him. He's probably more guilty of choosing Dzhokha as a friend than of anything else.

But the two Kazakh students are in it up to their ears after the fact. Their conscious actions after the fact show they have no knowledge of the rule of law in the United States. Being Russian, they might be expected to have some considerable fear of any central government authority, i.e., investigators, but they seem to think the FBI etc are only nosey nuisance snoops they can lie to and dismiss. It's hard to think anyone can be as stupid as these two guys.

[Jingthing]

The majority of foreign students in the USA are decent people. I feel bad for them now as I reckon there is going to be a public opinion backlash against foreign students.

[keemapoot]

But the two Kazakh students are in it up to their ears after the fact. Their conscious actions after the fact show they have no knowledge of the rule of law in the United States. Being Russian, they might be expected to have some considerable fear of any central government authority, i.e., investigators, but they seem to think the FBI etc are only nosey nuisance snoops they can lie to and dismiss. It's hard to think anyone can be as stupid as these two guys.

This is a somewhat surprising development, that of the two accomplices being Kazakh. Kazakhstan is a mostly moderate Islamic (70%) Republic. I've known many ethnic Kazkahs, and even as Muslims, many of them drink and do not observe strict Muslim practice (arguably as a result of the Soviet influence).

Could this be a new recruiting ground for Islamist terrorists? If so, could it spread to other Turkic Muslim groups, such as the Uyghurs in nearby Xiang Zhang Province in China?

Chechens and Turkic Muslims. These are two new actors on the (American terror) scene, or perhaps the whole episode is a one-off....

Edited May 1, 2013 by keemapoot

[sbk]

Am I the only one that sees the point that the friends were involved after the fact? That does not scream organized group but sympathetic friends to me, regardless of how wrong they were.

[keemapoot]

Am I the only one that sees the point that the friends were involved after the fact? That does not scream organized group but sympathetic friends to me, regardless of how wrong they were.

Yes, you could be right, but sympathetic to a deadly high profile terrorist event? "After the fact" might just mean they were apprentice terrorists, not yet ready for full operations. Buddies might help a criminal hide after robbing a bank, but hard to believe anyone would get involved with something this bad. Still, anything is possible.

[Sing_Sling]

Am I the only one that sees the point that the friends were involved after the fact? That does not scream organized group but sympathetic friends to me, regardless of how wrong they were.

No, you're not the only one . . . but seeing as your point isn't worth conspiracy theories it is a quiet point

[Credo]

Young people aren't know for using the best decision making. I doubt that these guys had any idea of what they were getting into or the seriousness of what had happened.

But that doesn't give them a free pass on being fully investigated and interrogated.

My guess is they are much wiser now that they were on the day preceding the attack.

[SteeleJoe]

No, you're not the only one . . . but seeing as your point isn't worth conspiracy theories it is a quiet point

Some people - particularly one poster (who made the ridiculous assertion that it can ONLY be the work of an extended network) - are determined to see only the narrative that they chose early on with virtually no information at all.

I don't claim to know the whole story nor do I care to make predictions. But there are a couple of things to bear in mind:

1) There is a phenomena known as "self radicalization"; it is disputed by some (who have an anti-Muslim agenda) but there is evidence for it.

2) al Queda is NOT what many people imagine with a linear clearly defined command structure that centrally controls everything an extended network does; there are wide range of degrees that al Q would have an association with a given terrorist or group of them and vice versa; just because there has been some contact with someone who has ben or is associated in some way with al Q or an affiliate - which we don't yet know of in this case - doesn't mean that whatever that individual or group does is at the direction of al Q...

We may find out that this was part of a larger conspiracy but it is absurd and unsupportable to claim at this point that it has to be - so looking for ways to make available facts support that case by mere assumption rather than following the evidence is...well, as I said many pages ago, I'm glad the professionals will focus on the latter.

Edited May 2, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[Ulysses G.]

Am I the only one that sees the point that the friends were involved after the fact? That does not scream organized group but sympathetic friends to me, regardless of how wrong they were.

There is no way to know that yet, but if they were not involved in the original attack and just being loyal to a friend, I do feel a little sorry for them. They are probably going to get screwed way out of proportion to what (it looks like) they might have actually done.

[Ulysses G.]

No, you're not the only one . . . but seeing as your point isn't worth conspiracy theories it is a quiet point

1) There is a phenomena known as "self radicalization"; it is disputed by some (who have an anti-Muslim agenda) but there is evidence for it.

I am not sure how self radicalization conflicts with an anti-Muslim agenda. These are still radical Muslims whether they learned to make bombs off the Internet or flew to Russia to learn from experts.

[SteeleJoe]

Yes, you could be right, but sympathetic to a deadly high profile terrorist event? "After the fact" might just mean they were apprentice terrorists, not yet ready for full operations. Buddies might help a criminal hide after robbing a bank, but hard to believe anyone would get involved with something this bad. Still, anything is possible.

People will do all sorts of things. If these brothers would do what they did, then surely there might be people who'd something slightly less extreme like give him some help afterwards. Moreover, people will sympathize with all sorts of loathsome creatures and causes and believe all sorts of nonsense (ie about the US governement and what it has done or might do). Certainly there have been many cases of people helping someone get away with murder after the fact: that this is a high profile case might only add to the appeal for the right mindset.

After all, there are female strangers that would shag this murderer...maybe he has friends that would 'merely' help him.

[sbk]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57582393/accused-boston-bomber-dzhokhar-tsarnaevs-friends-hid-damning-evidence-feds-say/

Three college friends of Boston Marathon bombing suspect Dzhokhar
Tsarnaev were arrested and accused Wednesday of removing a backpack
containing fireworks emptied of gunpowder from Tsarnaev's dorm room
three days after the attack to try to keep him from getting into
trouble.

The three were not accused of any involvement in the bombing itself. But
in a footnote in the court papers, the FBI said that about a month
before the bombing, Tsarnaev told Tazhayakov and Kadyrbayev that he knew
how to make a bomb.

[SteeleJoe]

I am not sure how self radicalization conflicts with an anti-Muslim agenda. These are still radical Muslims whether they learned to make bombs off the Internet or flew to Russia to learn from experts.

It conflicts with some because they prefer to perpetuate and sustain the idea that ALL Islamist terrorism is interconnected and that Islam (and specifically Islamic countries) is the entire problem.

If you think that I have suggested or ever would suggest that this action has nothing to do with the brother being Muslim, you'd be quite wrong. I know quite a bit about Islamist terrorism and I see it as a despicable menace. But some people want to distort what it is because of political and religious agendas and prejudices - I'm not interested in doing that and more to the point I think anything other than a coldly rational and objective examination of facts is counterproductive and thus unconscionable given the stakes.

Edited May 2, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[Ulysses G.]

The three college friends have initially been charged with removing evidence concerning the bombing, because there is some proof that they did so. It is certainly possible that further investigation may lead to more charges concerning the bombing itself.

I still don't see how learning these beliefs from a radical Imam on the Internet and in local mosques is any different from flying to Pakistan and being indoctrinated there. Anyone who thinks that all Islamic terrorism is all interconnected is just plain foolish. There are many different groups and individuals with different agendas participating in radical jihad. The Shiite and the Sunnis are often at each others throats.

Edited May 2, 2013 by Ulysses G.

[SteeleJoe]

I still don't see how learning these beliefs from a radical Imam on the Internet and in local mosques is any different from flying to Pakistan and being indoctrinated there. Anyone who thinks that all Islamic terrorism is all interconnected is just plain foolish. There are many different groups and individuals with different agendas participating in radical jihad. The Shiite and the Sunnis are often at each others throats.

It is different because...it is different. By definition. Don't know how you can't see it. (Besides I'm not confining it to those two scenarios - rather than being merely indoctrinated some want to see such things as always being planned, directed, funded, controlled by a foreign entity.)

As for the rest, I am aware of all that but it's not necessarily about being foolish as much as it is about having a agenda.

[Ulysses G.]

I have never heard anyone claim that all Islamic terrorism is interconnected before - how about a link to a source - but getting Muslims in America to self radicalize and carry out terrorist acts in the U.S. and U.K. is certainly one of the goals of Inspire magazine and al Queda.

Edited May 2, 2013 by Ulysses G.

[SteeleJoe]

I have never heard anyone claim that all Islamic terrorism is interconnected before.

Oh. So it must never have happened.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Pssst... It isn't necessarily explicitly phrased precisely that way.

Edited May 2, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[uptheos]

Am I the only one that sees the point that the friends were involved after the fact? That does not scream organized group but sympathetic friends to me, regardless of how wrong they were.

Sympathetic friends?......They are not covering up a late night curfew or a drinking party in the dorm, they are covering up an horrendous Islamic terrorist atrocity, that has ruined or had an impact hundreds if not thousands of lives. They are helping to cover up one of the most heinous, despicable and cowardly crimes in US history.

Apparently they received a text message saying "take what you want from the flat". In their wisdom (not naivety) they removed a backpack, dumped a computer in the garbage and removed vaseline. Now before the sniggers start, how would they know to remove vaseline, which is often used in bomb making??? Of course they haven't been found guilty of anything yet, but if they are charged and get found guilty, I hope they receive the absolute maximum.

[Ulysses G.]

Apparently they received a text message saying "take what you want from the flat". In their wisdom (not naivety) they removed a backpack, dumped a computer in the garbage and removed vaseline. Now before the sniggers start, how would they know to remove vaseline, which is often used in bomb making??? .

That is a very interesting point about the vaseline. It certainly seems like something that might be planned in advance. The computer is not far off either.

[sbk]

Am I the only one that sees the point that the friends were involved after the fact? That does not scream organized group but sympathetic friends to me, regardless of how wrong they were.

Sympathetic friends?......They are not covering up a late night curfew or a drinking party in the dorm, they are covering up an horrendous Islamic terrorist atrocity, that has ruined or had an impact hundreds if not thousands of lives. They are helping to cover up one of the most heinous, despicable and cowardly crimes in US history.

Apparently they received a text message saying "take what you want from the flat". In their wisdom (not naivety) they removed a backpack, dumped a computer in the garbage and removed vaseline. Now before the sniggers start, how would they know to remove vaseline, which is often used in bomb making??? Of course they haven't been found guilty of anything yet, but if they are charged and get found guilty, I hope they receive the absolute maximum.

Didi you bother to read my entire post or just cherry pick the bits that fit your what you wanted to say?

[SteeleJoe]

I have never heard anyone claim that all Islamic terrorism is interconnected before - how about a link to a source - but getting Muslims in America to self radicalize and carry out terrorist acts in the U.S. and U.K. is certainly one of the goals of Inspire magazine and al Queda.

You added some stuff after I posted and I just now saw it.

A link? I'm not interested in trying to find someone who has such a position and then demonstrate that they hold such a position by a sum total of their words - there won't be anyone saying that in a quotable sentence. You obviously have a choice to take my word for it, do some research yourself, or simply - perhaps your preferred option - dismiss it as something I made up.

I do have a link that shows the sort of folks who object to the very idea that there might be such a thing as self-radicalization and the site itself tells you a lot. I'm not inclined at the moment to break down the ways in which the linked article is or isn't accurate but it is a good example oft the sort of thing I've seen before. Also not sure if I will be bothered to look for anymore as I prefer not to work very hard at posting on TVF - it's not what I'm here for.

http://www.newenglishreview.org/custpage.cfm/frm/138601/sec_id/138601

[Ulysses G.]

I am not going to take your word for it, because I do not believe that enough people think that "all Islamic terrorism is interconnected" to even pay attention to - I have never heard that claim before anywhere - and your link certainly does not support that position. It is an indictment of the Koran and Islam in general.

Edited May 2, 2013 by Ulysses G.

[Chopperboy]

It really doesnt matter how far out the official narrative gets the alternative is too uncomfortable for most Americans to contemplate.

[SteeleJoe]

I am not going to take your word for it, because I do not believe that enough people think that "all Islamic terrorism is interconnected" to even pay attention to - I have never heard that claim before anywhere - and your link certainly does not support that position. It is an indictment of the Koran and Islam in general.

* The fact that you have never heard that claim - which as I said isn't likely to be explicitly stated in such simplified and stark terms - proves nothing, right?

* I wouldn't bother paying attention to those people either.

* The link was not meant to support that. You have missed the point ( possibly my fault).

[chuckd]

The friends were driving a car with the personalized license plate..."terrorista #1"

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

New Boston suspects drove car with ‘Terrorista #1′ license plate

By Patrick Howley 12:28 PM 05/01/2013

Two suspects who have been taken into custody in connection with the Boston Marathon bombings drove a car with “Terrorista #1″ printed on the front plate.

Azamat Tazhayakov and Dias Kadyrbayev were reportedly arrested, along with one other person, for allegedly making false statements and conspiring to obstruct justice during the federal investigation into Boston Marathon bombing suspects Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, officials said Wednesday.

Tazhayakov and Kadrbayev, who are reportedly in FBI custody, drove around in a black BMW with “Terrorista #1″ license plates and were also photographed with Dzhokhar Tsarnaev in Times Square.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/01/new-boston-suspects-drove-car-with-terrorista-1-license-plates/#ixzz2S6iFKNYa

[Jingthing]

Yeah I understand friends helping friends. However these guys are facing very serious charges in destroying evidence in such a high profile FBI case. Examples will be made. Tough luck indeed.

[SteeleJoe]

Yeah I understand friends helping friends. However these guys are facing very serious charges in destroying evidence in such a high profile FBI case. Examples will be made. Tough luck indeed.

Agreed.

Personally, I have zero sympathy for them and would be OK with very serious punishment (assuming sufficient evidence etc).

Edited May 2, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[Publicus]

The FBI is interrogating the wife on suspicion of conspiracy before the fact and probable coverup after the fact. An FBI counterterrorism guy said today the spousal privilege does not apply in the new terrorism laws.That's news to almost all of us because it's a radical departure in law. It could leave the widow seriously exposed. The reports say Tamerlan had bombmaking materials in their small apartment to include pipes.

Worse for the widow, she called Tamerlan after she saw his pictures on tv, but never called the police to say anything she knew or may have known. She probably didn't know either that the new counter terrorism laws allow culpability of the spouse. The FBI counter terrorism guy said investigators are beginning to throw the book at the widow, i.e., child welfare removing the daughter and the like unless the FBI becomes fully satisfied she's telling the truth. And the truth may not set her free, so to speak.

The FBI guy also said the exact discussion in the phone call is "captured" so it is playing a major part in the FBI's reasons for questioning her. The new terrorism laws apparently allow almost unlimited eavesdropping, or surveillance, which strikes me as simultaneously unnerving and comforting.

The FBI counter terrorism guy said, while there is not yet any evidence of involvement of others abroad, the FBI is working on the assumption that foreigners abroad are involved in the Boston bombings. Maybe the widow might know something about this aspect; certainly it's something investigators would like to hear about from the boy dufus himself.

As pointed out in a post above, one of the Kazakh foreign students had what's called a vanity license plate, "Terrorista 1", which certainly and seriously complicates the situation of he and his Kazakh student buddy. That's a lot to get on a license plate but starting decades ago my native state of Massachusetts began putting the full name of the state on license plates, instead of "Mass." Maybe the Kasakh might end up making license plates where he's going (I really don't have any idea whether federal inmates make states' license plates).

The FBI notes that the Kasakh students also seemed to know exactly what of Dzhokhar's possessions in the dorm room to get hold of and dispose in the dumpster, especially considering Dzhokhar's sms text message to them said simply they could go to his dorm room to take anything they wanted for themselves. They naturally would take some things but not others. Yet they seemed only to take the evidence of the bombings. That makes the Kasakh students seem more culpable than stupid.

[SteeleJoe]

As pointed out in a post above, one of the Kazakh foreign students had what's called a vanity license plate, "Terrorista 1", which certainly and seriously complicates the situation of he and his Kazakh student buddy. That's a lot to get on a license plate.

Minor point - it's not a license plate (vanity or otherwise). A novelty tag is more like it, I think.

I'd not be surprised if a state refused to issue a vanity plate like that.

Edited May 2, 2013 by SteeleJoe