Twin Bomb Explosions Shatter Boston Marathon Finish Line

[lannarebirth]

I think one thing everyone can agree on is that terrorist attacks, be they right or left wing extremists, of foreign or domestic origin, or false flag operations, always always work to the advantage of the state.

[folium]

I think one thing everyone can agree on is that terrorist attacks, be they right or left wing extremists, of foreign or domestic origin, or false flag operations, always always work to the advantage of the state.

Brievik, PIRA, etc etc...??

[lannarebirth]

I think one thing everyone can agree on is that terrorist attacks, be they right or left wing extremists, of foreign or domestic origin, or false flag operations, always always work to the advantage of the state.

Brievik, PIRA, etc etc...??

Those didn't happen in America did they? Maybe you haven't followed the gross curtailment of civil liberties in America post 9/11. You can Google Patriot Act, Homeland Security Act, SOPA, NDAA for a start. There has been a steady militarization of police forces and surveillance is omnipresent in population centers.

http://www.aclu.org/national-security/threats-civil-liberties-post-september-11-secrecy-erosion-privacy-danger-unchecked

[NeverSure]

So far then, we can choose from:

( a ) Muslim terror attack by a swarthy Saudi Arabian

( b ) Right Wing Gun nuts

( c ) US Government false flag operation (Alex Jones favourite phrase)

( d ) North Korea

Who needs the FBI I ask you?

Apart from the deaths, there were a number of traumatic amputations at the scene caused by the blast, according to local EMS.

My thoughts are with the poor racegoers and runners hurt or killed by this vicious and cowardly act.

It's a blessing that there was immediate first aid on hand for those injured thanks to the set up for the race.

Probably it was ( b ) the right wing gun nut. That's the only thing that could cause such explosions.

In fact it was probably my dad. He's a right wing gun nut. He's 96 and well, and was on the beach on D-Day with a (horrors) gun. He watches Fox News so it must have been him. I'll call the FBI right away.

I'll ask the FBI to find out what you're shooting up, yourself.

Edited April 16, 2013 by NeverSure

[Steely Dan]

So details begin to emerge.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/17/us/officials-investigate-boston-explosions.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Representative Michael McCaul, a Texas Republican who heads the House Homeland Security Committee, said the authorities believe that the explosives were similar to improvised explosive devices that have been used against American troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Though that is obviously circumstantial and on it's own does not constitute proof.

[Morden]

Despicable. The Boston Marathon is one of the great all-inclusive events anywhere.

Steady on. People in England and Northern Ireland have been blown to pieces whilst shopping or going to work. The event isn't the issue. The victims and their families are.

Respectfully, in the case of terrorism, special events, dates, locations, symbols…etc. are almost always highly significant. The aim of the attack is to do much more than kill. The aim is to cause fear – hence, the name. For this reason, bombs are often employed. While bombs do kill, they also look and sound “scary”. They explode without

warning. People begin to look at backpacks, luggage and piles of garbage with a sense of dread.

Were the terrorist to kill in private, out of the camera’s eye…we’d more likely call that type of attack assassination. The scope of fear is often much, much less.

The terrorist says to hide at home, fear the market and don’t go to the football game – you could die, or worse…you could be horribly maimed.

Mitigating the impact of an attack includes rebuilding a skyline, returning your children to school and as I’m sure we will see, packedstreets for the 2014 Boston Marathon.

//Americans respect and prize the British for their "stiff upper lip" attitude. Unfortunately, we're now having to learn what we once only quoted.

I was referring to our reaction now rather than the tactics of the bomber or bombers.

[Boon Mee]

Well, looking at responsibility for terror attacks now and going forward, look no further than Obama:

Obama administration has SLASHED budget for domestic bombing
prevention by 45 per cent, says former Homeland Security Assistant
Secretary

• $20 million budget under Bush became $11 million under Obama
• Both administrations neglected domestic bombing prevention, devoting a tiny
  fraction of the $1 billion earmarked for IED prevention overseas
• Obama issued a lengthy 'National Policy for Countering Improvised Explosive
  Devices' in February but a spokesman won't say if it failed

Source

Edited April 17, 2013 by Boon Mee

[Potosi]

So details begin to emerge.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/17/us/officials-investigate-boston-explosions.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Representative Michael McCaul, a Texas Republican who heads the House Homeland Security Committee, said the authorities believe that the explosives were similar to improvised explosive devices that have been used against American troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Though that is obviously circumstantial and on it's own does not constitute proof.

On the contrary, experts believe it is nothing like in Iraq and Afghanistan.

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/04/15/bomb-experts-offer-analysis-based-on-details-from-boston-marathon-explosions

The white smoke that emanated from the blasts indicate this was

likely a smokeless or black powder, he says, not a military-type

explosive such as C-4 or plastic explosives, which give off black smoke.

Two explosions in quick succession also indicate this was likely a

terrorist attack.

Al-Qaida and other radical Islamist groups don't often choose

significant or historic dates for their attacks, says Fennewald, who

also served as the Missouri Homeland Security Coordinator.

[geriatrickid]

Well, looking at responsibility for terror attacks now and going forward, look no further than Obama:

Obama administration has SLASHED budget for domestic bombing

prevention by 45 per cent, says former Homeland Security Assistant

Secretary

• $20 million budget under Bush became $11 million under Obama
• Both administrations neglected domestic bombing prevention, devoting a tiny

  fraction of the $1 billion earmarked for IED prevention overseas

• Obama issued a lengthy 'National Policy for Countering Improvised Explosive

  Devices' in February but a spokesman won't say if it failed

Source

In a country that is seriously in debt and does not have the money to spend on all sorts of bloated programs, you blame President Obama for a reduction of $9million?

The reduced spending has to come from somewhere and the available discretionary spending budget does not allow for much room to start with.

Besides, local security is a STATE not Federal responsibility. The immediate safety of the Boston marathon participants was the responsibility of the city of Boston and the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.

There comes a point when it is no longer cost effective to mount expensive security regimens.

[NeverSure]

It's correct that initial protection is a local responsibility. But once there's a bomb involved, it becomes a federal offense and BATF and the FBI get involved.

There will be a lot of evidence on hand and it's amazing what they, or investigators from other Western countries can do with that information.

There is at least one unexploded bomb? Even if there wasn't, there would be fragments from the exploded ones. From that they can tell exactly what type and brand of powder was used. They can tell what housed the bomb, and probably who made it. They can tell who made any wires. Then they will know who sells those items and will go find out who bought them.

The powder is said to be smokeless or black powder because it burned white. Smokeless wouldn't be the powder of choice because it doesn't burn as fast as black powder and therefore isn't appropriate for a bomb, or at least isn't the powder of choice. Score one. Black powder is used in antique and reproduction muzzle loaders and there is a lot less of it sold. Once they know the manufacturer and the potential retailers, they go on the hunt to find out who bought it in such quantities.

If the cell phones detonated them, and wire was used, and black powder, and perhaps even steel or iron threaded pipe, then some retailer may blow the whistle. If I wanted to make a few pipe bombs, I'd have to go to a plumbing supplier, buy the pipe, and pay to have it cut to length and threaded, and buy the caps to screw onto them. That's an odd purchase not done every day.

If I want ten pounds of black powder, that's an odd purchase not done every day. The same if I want several cell phones all at once.

There are also potential witnesses, surveillance cameras maybe, and who knows what else.

Those guys have so many tricks up their sleeves that I'll be expecting them to catch the perps. I sure hope so.

[Potosi]

It's correct that initial protection is a local responsibility. But once there's a bomb involved, it becomes a federal offense and BATF and the FBI get involved.

There will be a lot of evidence on hand and it's amazing what they, or investigators from other Western countries can do with that information.

There is at least one unexploded bomb? Even if there wasn't, there would be fragments from the exploded ones. From that they can tell exactly what type and brand of powder was used. They can tell what housed the bomb, and probably who made it. They can tell who made any wires. Then they will know who sells those items and will go find out who bought them.

The powder is said to be smokeless or black powder because it burned white. Smokeless wouldn't be the powder of choice because it doesn't burn as fast as black powder and therefore isn't appropriate for a bomb, or at least isn't the powder of choice. Score one. Black powder is used in antique and reproduction muzzle loaders and there is a lot less of it sold. Once they know the manufacturer and the potential retailers, they go on the hunt to find out who bought it in such quantities.

If the cell phones detonated them, and wire was used, and black powder, and perhaps even steel or iron threaded pipe, then some retailer may blow the whistle. If I wanted to make a few pipe bombs, I'd have to go to a plumbing supplier, buy the pipe, and pay to have it cut to length and threaded, and buy the caps to screw onto them. That's an odd purchase not done every day.

If I want ten pounds of black powder, that's an odd purchase not done every day. The same if I want several cell phones all at once.

There are also potential witnesses, surveillance cameras maybe, and who knows what else.

Those guys have so many tricks up their sleeves that I'll be expecting them to catch the perps. I sure hope so.

I like to watch TV broadcasts like Crimewatch that try to solve crimes. There is more often than not good CCTV footage capturing the crime and the criminals, sometimes even their faces in detail. Yet only a little over 30% of the cases have been solved for the 47 years this particular show exists. Plus one actor who reenacted a crime for the show was arrested last year, but the missunderstanding cleared quickly. I wouldn't be so optimistic. A right-wing terror cell that killed about a dozend people, and set bombs off quite like in the style of Boston went undiscovered for more than ten years in Germany, just because the investigators remained blind on the right eye. The Muslims were monitored all over.

[F430murci]

Kim who?

With everything going on and focus in NK, this was a bit of an opportunistic event for someone or some organization.

[Robby nz]

Woke up today thinking about this terrible action and the terror and horror those there must have felt,

My greatest sympathy to those who have lost loved ones and hopes of a speedy recovery to those injured.

Also hope the state will do everything to help the victims.

The amount of hate needed to do something like this to people you don't know and who have done nothing to you is beyond my understanding.

There is nothing justice can do to those who have made these bombs that can come anywhere near the suffering of their victims, more is the pity.

At times like this some of the ideas of people like Hitler or Pol Pot could just come in useful, but we have progressed from there haven't we? well some of us have.

Should there be an overseas connection I just hope the US doesn't decide to go on another international witch hunt with their drones etc for this only generates more death destruction and hate, a vicious cycle.

This being a Thai forum we should not forget that there are bombings and killings in the south almost every day, so many it seems that they don't even register on the Thai news page anymore, they would be no less terrible to their victims.

[SteeleJoe]

Nothing could have prevented this and to believe otherwise is simply being ignorant

Blaming Obama and/ or budget cuts is absurd and ugly. However, it is simply not the case that such things can never be prevented - they often are.

In saying that, I'm being the opposite of ignorant.

[SteeleJoe]

I wouldn't be so optimistic. A right-wing terror cell that killed about a dozend people, and set bombs off quite like in the style of Boston went undiscovered for more than ten years in Germany, just because the investigators remained blind on the right eye. The Muslims were monitored all over.

Personally I think that tells us approximately (sfa) nothing about the likelihood of finding the perpetrators of this incident.

*And Muslims? I thought they were mistakenly after Turkish mafia...

Edited April 17, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[SteeleJoe]

Kim who?

With everything going on and focus in NK, this was a bit of an opportunistic event for someone or some organization.

I can't see where that would make a difference. The activity and attention for Korea is at a national level - whether policy or intelligence gathering - not likely to have detracted anything from any efforts that would have prevented this.

And if it was any sort of sophisticated group - especially foreign - such operations are typically planned for a minimum of months if not years.

[Sing_Sling]

It's correct that initial protection is a local responsibility. But once there's a bomb involved, it becomes a federal offense and BATF and the FBI get involved.

There will be a lot of evidence on hand and it's amazing what they, or investigators from other Western countries can do with that information.

There is at least one unexploded bomb? Even if there wasn't, there would be fragments from the exploded ones. From that they can tell exactly what type and brand of powder was used. They can tell what housed the bomb, and probably who made it. They can tell who made any wires. Then they will know who sells those items and will go find out who bought them.

The powder is said to be smokeless or black powder because it burned white. Smokeless wouldn't be the powder of choice because it doesn't burn as fast as black powder and therefore isn't appropriate for a bomb, or at least isn't the powder of choice. Score one. Black powder is used in antique and reproduction muzzle loaders and there is a lot less of it sold. Once they know the manufacturer and the potential retailers, they go on the hunt to find out who bought it in such quantities.

If the cell phones detonated them, and wire was used, and black powder, and perhaps even steel or iron threaded pipe, then some retailer may blow the whistle. If I wanted to make a few pipe bombs, I'd have to go to a plumbing supplier, buy the pipe, and pay to have it cut to length and threaded, and buy the caps to screw onto them. That's an odd purchase not done every day.

If I want ten pounds of black powder, that's an odd purchase not done every day. The same if I want several cell phones all at once.

There are also potential witnesses, surveillance cameras maybe, and who knows what else.

Those guys have so many tricks up their sleeves that I'll be expecting them to catch the perps. I sure hope so.

I like to watch TV broadcasts like Crimewatch that try to solve crimes. There is more often than not good CCTV footage capturing the crime and the criminals, sometimes even their faces in detail. Yet only a little over 30% of the cases have been solved for the 47 years this particular show exists. Plus one actor who reenacted a crime for the show was arrested last year, but the missunderstanding cleared quickly. I wouldn't be so optimistic. A right-wing terror cell that killed about a dozend people, and set bombs off quite like in the style of Boston went undiscovered for more than ten years in Germany, just because the investigators remained blind on the right eye. The Muslims were monitored all over.

Closing the right eye is right . . . it's been like that fro a very long time

Nothing could have prevented this and to believe otherwise is simply being ignorant

Blaming Obama and/ or budget cuts is absurd and ugly. However, it is simply not the case that such things can never be prevented - they often are.

In saying that, I'm being the opposite of ignorant.

You're definitely not ignorant . . . because you used the word 'often', not 'never' or 'always'. Of course many are stopped, but not all of them can be. A friend's father was the Denver police chief quite a while ago and he told us stories of the many homegrown whackjob-militia attempts they stopped. The police's weapon? The crims' stupidity

[SteeleJoe]

A friend's father was the Denver police chief quite a while ago and he told us stories of the many homegrown whackjob-militia attempts they stopped. The police's weapon? The crims' stupidity

I believe it. Law enforcement has ALWAYS benefitted from the fact that there's a lot of stupid criminals out there.

As for prevention of terrorism in general, there have been a lot of successes of various scales - inevitably not all of which are completely known of - and in regards to militias and the like, it's the widely believed among people who are an authority of the subject that the FBI, ATF, WTC have done a very good job a infiltrating and monitoring them; mostly they are of limited ability and they are stopped if it goes any further than talk and posturing. (Which, it should go without saying, does NOT mean that they will have 100% success against those people);

Edited April 17, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[Rimmer]

One post flaming another member removed

[SteeleJoe]

Are you saying that if the money had not been cut the Boston attack would not have happened? Rhetorical question, at least I would hope you already know the answer to that. The simple fact is there is no way you are ever going to protect a country from these kind of attacks. It doesn't even take much intelegence to cause mass carnage in a large modern city, all it takes is determination. The security theater which is perpetuated on the American public is a farce. No amont of money or reduction in freedoms and liberty is going to prevent these type of attacks.

Yes and no. It's a good post but...

"The simple fact is there is no way you are ever going to protect a country from these kind of attacks."

100%? No. But that doesn't mean they can never be prevented or never are. Surely you aren't suggesting all efforts to do so are totally pointless?

"It doesn't even take much intelegence to cause mass carnage in a large modern city, all it takes is determination."

Well, it's perhaps not quite as easy as you claim - I am certain if it were we'd have way more such incidents (do you think al Qaeda et al don't want to do such things?) but you are largely correct; determination, resourcefulness, and the right financing will take you a long way.

"No amont of money or reduction in freedoms and liberty is going to prevent these type of attacks."

That's simply not true (unless, again, you mean 100% effectiveness): there's a reason why brutally oppressive totalitarian systems (Saddam's Iraq for one but the list is long of places where they have all the ingredients for violent insurgencies and terror but it is kept suppressed). The only question is how much is it worth?

Personally, I tend to agree with Benjamin Franklin's dictum re liberty versus security but that doesn't mean if a country wanted to sacrifice enough freedoms (and spend enough resources), they couldn't be quite successful in preventing attacks.

Edited April 17, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[SteeleJoe]

Cast your mind back to the bashing Dubya got on a daily basis.

Turn about is fair play:

What an excellent example you and your post are of what is so tragically wrong with the US today.

There was a time when we were all in it together. Now people can actually take satisfaction an feel justified in using such events to immediately deride and distort the views and actions of those they oppose politically - rather than be ashamed to do so, as they should.

But to be fair - it's truly vile and repulsive but it's not at all uncommon...

Edited April 17, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[Boon Mee]

Pieces of Bomb's Circuit Board Recovered; May Yield Clues

We can only hope.

There were many horrors made yesterday, but among the worst was that done to this family.

This was the eight year old boy murdered:

Tragic doesn't begin to sum it up...

Edited April 17, 2013 by Boon Mee

[SteeleJoe]

Getting back to that Saudi national seen running away from the scene. What's up with that? Another coverup? Afraid that the Boston bombing will be blamed on Islam Terror? News has gone real quiet on that, eh...

Have you deliberately been avoiding getting the straight facts for fear that they would conflict with your paranoid conspiracy theory agenda or are you just being deliberately dishonest and pretending you don't know so as to have an excuse to spout the paranoid conspiracy theory twaddle and rightwing bigotry?

Edited April 17, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[Boon Mee]

Getting back to that Saudi national seen running away from the scene. What's up with that? Another coverup? Afraid that the Boston bombing will be blamed on Islam Terror? News has gone real quiet on that, eh...

Have you deliberately been avoiding getting the straight facts for fear that they would conflict with your paranoid conspiracy theory agenda or are you just being dishonest and pretending you don't know?

What 'straight facts' are those?

[SteeleJoe]

Getting back to that Saudi national seen running away from the scene. What's up with that? Another coverup? Afraid that the Boston bombing will be blamed on Islam Terror? News has gone real quiet on that, eh...

Have you deliberately been avoiding getting the straight facts for fear that they would conflict with your paranoid conspiracy theory agenda or are you just being dishonest and pretending you don't know?

What 'straight facts' are those?

Google is your friend.

"Saudi national" "Boston marathon"...Try it.

[Boon Mee]

Found it:

Saudi national who is (was?) a person of interest is looking less interesting.

[O]n Tuesday morning, one law enforcement official said

investigators had determined that the man, who was injured in the blast

and was questioned at the hospital, was not involved in the attack.

[SteeleJoe]

Found it:

Saudi national who is (was?) a person of interest is looking less interesting.

[O]n Tuesday morning, one law enforcement official said

investigators had determined that the man, who was injured in the blast

and was questioned at the hospital, was not involved in the attack.

Good job!

Questions answered.

By the way, there are many far more prominent and (arguably) credible sources that have reported on this than the one that you oddly chose.

Edited April 17, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[Boon Mee]

Found it:

Saudi national who is (was?) a person of interest is looking less interesting.

[O]n Tuesday morning, one law enforcement official said

investigators had determined that the man, who was injured in the blast

and was questioned at the hospital, was not involved in the attack.

Good job!

Questions answered.

Thank you!

...still doesn't mean that there might not be some possible '<deleted>' in the riggin' going on with that Al Quida bunch...

[SteeleJoe]

Found it:

Saudi national who is (was?) a person of interest is looking less interesting.

[O]n Tuesday morning, one law enforcement official said

investigators had determined that the man, who was injured in the blast

and was questioned at the hospital, was not involved in the attack.

Good job!

Questions answered.

Thank you!

...still doesn't mean that there might not be some possible '<deleted>' in the riggin' going on with that Al Quida bunch...

No it tells us absolutely NOTHING with regards to involvement of al Q or other Jihadists. It does, however, mean that your post was totally lacking in logic or fact or anything else of substance or merit.

[Sing_Sling]

Getting back to that Saudi national seen running away from the scene. What's up with that? Another coverup? Afraid that the Boston bombing will be blamed on Islam Terror? News has gone real quiet on that, eh...

Another cover-up . . . seeing as you're so fond of talking about Bush et al . . . Facts hurt, eh BoonMee, but well done on actually finding something - with prompting - that doesn't coincide with your bigoted views