The Truth About People Who "do I.t." From Thailand

[OxfordWill]

I know there are plenty of IT and web guys here, and no shortage of hackers, but the ratio of wannabe:genuine is quite high.

Ive met more than a few people who could be described as wishful thinkers, to the point where I generally avoid bothering to look for opportunity when I meet someone who claims to be doing online work of pretty much any description. It always sounds great to begin with, and then quickly unravels and "I'm a CEO of a web company" becomes "I bought a domain name and dont know what to do with it- any advice?"

An exception being the real tech types who are obviously the real deal or not within a minute of conversation. Then you get some who know the right company names or brands to drop but really can't take it any further than someone who had once read ycombinator for 5 minutes about a year ago.

What's the point? Why are they doing it.

Wisher: I'm a web developer

Me: Oh yea? That's great. What stuff are you into?

Wisher: Oh you know, developing the web.

Me: ... *orders a stronger drink*

I've met coders who don't know any code language. I've met sysadmins who don't know what systems they can administrate. I've mer server admins who don't know what Apache or IIS is. I've met SEO guys who don't know what the acronym stands for. I've met "startup guys" who dont have an idea to start. I've met web designers who suspiciously avoid sharing any actual site they might have designed. And so on..

How about you- same experience? Different perspective to share? The old joke about "every bar in Thailand has an ex CIA or SBS member in it" might well need to be changed to "Every bar in thailand has an "I.T. Guy" in it."

Do they think they are fooling anyone?

By the way I'm not complaining about Thailand here.

By the by, anyone got an opinion on the talkers lined up here:

http://echelon.e27.co/sg2013/echelon_satellite/thailand-satellite/

[USNret]

That's why they're in Thailand. If they could really do IT, they'd be back home with a job.

BTW, I'm an unemployed IT PM, still looking for work. But I'm looking for Stateside jobs, not in Thailand.

[DavidMavec]

If they are just blowing hot air then what's your theory on how they are actually funding their time in Thailand?

[BlackPuddingBertha]

"The Truth About ....."

If I understand it correctly you're saying that Thailand is full of incompetent farang losers with no skills and no money.

What else is new?

[OldChinaHam]

Eric Schmidt has been telling everyone to head to Mongolia if they are seeking to get a IT job, and I think he is in love with the place. The air in the wintertime is utter smog par exellence, but that just means with negative 50 degree days. and smoke from burning trash the natives use to keep warm, there is just that much more incentive to stay inside and work on your projects. And, really, there are quite a few up there who love the place. The mountains are beautiful and the gals are tanned,

[Loptr]

Nothing new here. The world is full of wannabes that have a degree and zero experience. I like to call them "paper tigers". I can't count the number of times I've given candidates technical interviews where they couldn't find their arse with both hands given real-world scenarios. Sure they passed the initial interview because they could talk the talk, but when it comes to walking the walk, 80+% fall flat on their face. Another 15% are carrying around some kind of baggage which makes them unemployable, leaving about 5% of candidates that can do the job and work well in a team. So, in the overall scheme of things, a very small percentage of those who claim to be expat IT professional actually are. Much like retired SAS and Special Forces soldiers.

[Chicog]

In the 90's I attended a quite intensive security course in London run by a US NCTC employee, and was amazed that only two of us on the course (myself and a chap from GCHQ) appeared to have the prerequisite knowledge and experience expected, so we were able to do the regular end-of-lesson exercises reasonably quickly.

Because we both smoked, we ended up spending half the course in the coffee room while the rest fumbled their way through every single one.

Yet amazingly, many of them held what should have been key positions in their organisations (some of them FTSE 100 companies).

Which led me to believe a lot of the CIO's in the UK are bumbling idiots as well.

It's little wonder that so many companies in the UK get hit.

[Cloggie]

My experience (30 years IT) is that the companies / mangers I worked with in Thailand (15 years) are clueless about what IT is and can do for a company, these people are barely able to handle their laptop / desktop / mac and then tell me - the IT Manager - what to do.

Tasks like:

- I want a full backup of all data from every computer and laptop in the office

- I want you to copy the hard disks of all servers so we can restore the server in 5 minutes if it fails

- Internet is now down for 5 minutes, when is it up again?

- remote support of PC somewhere in Nakhon Faraway with no internet connection

etc etc

Yes I also met secret agents working for CIA / FBI, ex SAS, ex Neavy Seals, "I don't have to work anymore but I do this as a hobby" persons, especially in Bangkok and Pattaya, but he what a surpice :-)

Summary, not only a lot off staff has NO experience but also a lot of managers are clueless as well!

[canman]

Previously worked for a large Thai company. A lot of issues with the IT department. Response time to faults out of office hours was nearly non existant. with many remote locations around the world working 24/7/365. 24/7/365 IT support was a requirement. Thai management finally understood the IT department was grossly under resourced and restructured, updated and inproved the service. The joke in the company was the 24hr hotline they initiated, the number was 5555

Edited April 17, 2013 by canman

[Greeen]

Thailand is full of Farang wannabe dreamers

Like you say, only a small percentage are actually for real, beware of the Falang! ;-)

[BrianCR]

Thailand is full of Farang wannabe dreamers

Like you say, only a small percentage are actually for real, beware of the Falang! ;-)

And especially the experts! Not just IT but those in many fields and who try to give the impression that they love living here but just can't stop knocking the place!

[tfc]

Strangely I haven't met any commandos, navy seals or SAS but I have met a guy who is "a original founder of Google, worth millions!" hiding away in a cheap little condo because his American wife is after him for money, another guy who makes "20K US a month easy!" with his startup yet seems to have no clue about anything I.T. or business and a guy who was the "driving force" behind Steve Jobs and "the catalyst for many of the designs of Apple".

I've probably met more people here (in Chiang Mai) who are the CEOs of "massively successful startups" or "working on the next massively successful startup" than I've met anywhere else in the world. So yeah perhaps this is the new "I work for organizations so secret that I shouldn't even be talking about it but I will spill the beans to you a guy I just met at the bar/coffee shop."

I know that you can't tell an IT guy buy what they wear or drive because back in the 90s when I worked for HP the guys who were lucky enough to get in at the right time with SAP and getting 250 AUD an hour used to wear the sloppiest clothes and drive bombs - but the minute they opened their mouths you knew they knew programming because their command of the programming language was better than their command of the verbal language.

The guys I met here not so much. They talk a lot and talk big but the minute you ask them a legitimate question about the process they either give some excuse, get indignant that you are asking them a question or try to sneak out the back door. It's weird. Back home if people work a shitty job they just say "I'm a pencil pusher." or "my job sucks." Why all these 25 year olds over here who are wannabe CEOs...

At least with the fake commandos or navy seals I could expect some good stories.

Edited April 17, 2013 by tfc

[OldChinaHam]

=="those in many fields and who try to give the impression that they love living here but just can't stop knocking the place!"==

Yes! Why is that? What you say seems to be true in many cases. It is almost as if they were still in the military and were stationed here unable to leave.

I don't think I have run into this sentiment expressed so pervasively.

You would think, if you come to Thailand, then you already feel a strong affinity and interest in Asia and in the culture here, and also interest in becoming a part of the society. If this is not the case though, then it must be hell to live here.

Or maybe it is "hell hath no fury like an Expat scorned"?

[wprime]

You get the same in the west too, when I tell people my background (Software Eng) I often get people responding, "oh I work in IT too" when they really just work in phone support, or once got called to clean up a mess in the IT supplies isle at the supermarket they work at.

Yes! Why is that? What you say seems to be true in many cases.

It's the nature of unhappy people to complain, they probably moved to Thailand because they were unhappy in the west. They probably liked Thailand at first, but after the novelty wore off they returned to their old complaining-self.

[gtm2k]

okay, i have to admit there is some truth in this post - and is subject to more than 1 interpretation.

1. Too many tourists out here claiming to be IT experts, but basically trying to get the job done by googling + using half-knowledge ?? YES
Recently , i came across a property developer who had intentions of getting his web site developed with a lot of business driven knowledge in it. The processes he designed were probably his own brainchild and could not be really accomplished using any standard off-the-shelf CMS. But again - a tourist IT expert quoted him under 1000 US for a job which was *supposed* to finish 2 months back. The guy's domain is still sitting without its website - and i am only guessing that the relationship has gone sour.

These so called IT experts spoil genuine market dynamics, leave the prospective clients hanging nowhere and at the end of the day its everybody's waste of time. I must also add - from a visa point of view - its illegal as well !

2. The same theory BTW also extends to thai graduates who are passing out with IT Degrees. I have come to an understanding now, that amongst these grads "passing" is enough ! Most CS grads show up with "websites" as their year-end / internship projects - which is a shocker for me ! But then, as long as they have good soft skills - they can be trained to generate output for genuine real-world projects.

Perhaps there are other members here who run software related / IT businesses and would share their experiences as well ...

Edited April 18, 2013 by gtm2k

[vento]

You get the same in the west too, when I tell people my background (Software Eng) I often get people responding, "oh I work in IT too" when they really just work in phone support, or once got called to clean up a mess in the IT supplies isle at the supermarket they work at.

Yes! Why is that? What you say seems to be true in many cases.

It's the nature of unhappy people to complain, they probably moved to Thailand because they were unhappy in the west. They probably liked Thailand at first, but after the novelty wore off they returned to their old complaining-self.

If only a background as a software-eng could guarantee anything.... ive met quite a few (here and there) with fancy degree's and stuff which didnt have any clue.

[OxfordWill]

okay, i have to admit there is some truth in this post - and is subject to more than 1 interpretation.

1. Too many tourists out here claiming to be IT experts, but basically trying to get the job done by googling + using half-knowledge ?? YES

Recently , i came across a property developer who had intentions of getting his web site developed with a lot of business driven knowledge in it. The processes he designed were probably his own brainchild and could not be really accomplished using any standard off-the-shelf CMS. But again - a tourist IT expert quoted him under 1000 US for a job which was *supposed* to finish 2 months back. The guy's domain is still sitting without its website - and i am only guessing that the relationship has gone sour.

These so called IT experts spoil genuine market dynamics, leave the prospective clients hanging nowhere and at the end of the day its everybody's waste of time. I must also add - from a visa point of view - its illegal as well !

2. The same theory BTW also extends to thai graduates who are passing out with IT Degrees. I have come to an understanding now, that amongst these grads "passing" is enough ! Most CS grads show up with "websites" as their year-end / internship projects - which is a shocker for me ! But then, as long as they have good soft skills - they can be trained to generate output for genuine real-world projects.

Perhaps there are other members here who run software related / IT businesses and would share their experiences as well ...

Yes, the showing a web 1.0 website at interview! I think this reflects more poorly on the teaching than anything else. They have obviously been told to do this. I found kasetsart to be better.

It is as if they expect to be told how to code on the job. "What is your favourite IDE"? - a very tricky question and normally, they only know of one. know "OF". Not "understand", which would be OK.

Where is the out-of-class enthusiasm and exploration?

I found about 3 in as many hundred.

[FalangBaa]

That's why they're in Thailand. If they could really do IT, they'd be back home with a job.

BTW, I'm an unemployed IT PM, still looking for work. But I'm looking for Stateside jobs, not in Thailand.

I do it and I make very good money from anywhere in the world, and I communicate with my coworkers only by e-mail; no need for Skype even. My geographical location makes no difference to the type of programming work I do, and I work freelance for various large companies. I have done this around the world for over 10 years. Being in Thailand makes no difference to my work, compared to being in the U.S., except that my cost of living is half or less. I earn the same money I would earn in the U.S. The only slight problem is that most of my customers are in the U.S. and Europe (though some are in Asia), so there's a lag when replying to e-mails sometimes.

[properperson]

"The Truth About ....."

If I understand it correctly you're saying that Thailand is full of incompetent farang losers with no skills and no money.

What else is new?

lol......

[taninthai]

I know there are plenty of IT and web guys here, and no shortage of hackers, but the ratio of wannabe:genuine is quite high.

Ive met more than a few people who could be described as wishful thinkers, to the point where I generally avoid bothering to look for opportunity when I meet someone who claims to be doing online work of pretty much any description. It always sounds great to begin with, and then quickly unravels and "I'm a CEO of a web company" becomes "I bought a domain name and dont know what to do with it- any advice?"

An exception being the real tech types who are obviously the real deal or not within a minute of conversation. Then you get some who know the right company names or brands to drop but really can't take it any further than someone who had once read ycombinator for 5 minutes about a year ago.

What's the point? Why are they doing it.

Wisher: I'm a web developer

Me: Oh yea? That's great. What stuff are you into?

Wisher: Oh you know, developing the web.

Me: ... *orders a stronger drink*

I've met coders who don't know any code language. I've met sysadmins who don't know what systems they can administrate. I've mer server admins who don't know what Apache or IIS is. I've met SEO guys who don't know what the acronym stands for. I've met "startup guys" who dont have an idea to start. I've met web designers who suspiciously avoid sharing any actual site they might have designed. And so on..

How about you- same experience? Different perspective to share? The old joke about "every bar in Thailand has an ex CIA or SBS member in it" might well need to be changed to "Every bar in thailand has an "I.T. Guy" in it."

Do they think they are fooling anyone?

By the way I'm not complaining about Thailand here.

By the by, anyone got an opinion on the talkers lined up here:

http://echelon.e27.co/sg2013/echelon_satellite/thailand-satellite/

all this talk of coders,sysadmins,apache and iis has gone right over my head,though with compleetely no experience i did manage to build my own website over here that has attracted loads of customers to my bussiness in the last 3 years and turned me a nice profit, i would no way say im into it, but seems i am capable of making a website

Sent from my GT-P7500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[dave111223]

Keep in mind that many IT people here are working under the radar and don't like to be questioned by random people about "What are you doing in Thailand" and take some warming up.

Within the first 5 minutes I might decide to tell you I sit in an armchair starring at the wall all day, and maybe mumble something about internet...stuff...

There is really nothing to be gained by extolling your own endeavors to strangers, other than to massage your own ego.

Edited April 19, 2013 by dave111223

[OxfordWill]

Er, no. If you tell me of your own volition that you are in the same industry as I am, then don't be surprised when I ask you a bit more about it. If you want to keep your l33t h4x0r skills a secret then simply don't bring them up to begin with.

If you find another person doing the same job as you then there may be opportunity for at least friendship and at most, profit. Not following that possibility up is a mistake. That is what is to be gained.

Edited April 21, 2013 by OxfordWill

[OldChinaHam]

You are right, Oxford. You always make sense.

Now everyone, please be open, and as much as possible please always be opensource.

[BlackPuddingBertha]

If you find another person doing the same job as you then there may be opportunity for at least friendship and at most, profit. Not following that possibility up is a mistake. That is what is to be gained.

I dont think that I would want to be friends with someone who does the same sort of job that I do. And the only likely profit around would be if I took over whatever job they are doing and did it better (which wouldnt be hard). But to do that I would need to be friends not with them but with whoever is paying them.

Luckily I dont need to work any more and so I can just avoid having to talk with any of these two groups of time-wasters in the first place.

[innerspace]

okay, i have to admit there is some truth in this post - and is subject to more than 1 interpretation.

1. Too many tourists out here claiming to be IT experts, but basically trying to get the job done by googling + using half-knowledge ?? YES

Recently , i came across a property developer who had intentions of getting his web site developed with a lot of business driven knowledge in it. The processes he designed were probably his own brainchild and could not be really accomplished using any standard off-the-shelf CMS. But again - a tourist IT expert quoted him under 1000 US for a job which was *supposed* to finish 2 months back. The guy's domain is still sitting without its website - and i am only guessing that the relationship has gone sour.

These so called IT experts spoil genuine market dynamics, leave the prospective clients hanging nowhere and at the end of the day its everybody's waste of time. I must also add - from a visa point of view - its illegal as well !

2. The same theory BTW also extends to thai graduates who are passing out with IT Degrees. I have come to an understanding now, that amongst these grads "passing" is enough ! Most CS grads show up with "websites" as their year-end / internship projects - which is a shocker for me ! But then, as long as they have good soft skills - they can be trained to generate output for genuine real-world projects.

Perhaps there are other members here who run software related / IT businesses and would share their experiences as well ...

Yes, the showing a web 1.0 website at interview! I think this reflects more poorly on the teaching than anything else. They have obviously been told to do this. I found kasetsart to be better.

It is as if they expect to be told how to code on the job. "What is your favourite IDE"? - a very tricky question and normally, they only know of one. know "OF". Not "understand", which would be OK.

Where is the out-of-class enthusiasm and exploration?

I found about 3 in as many hundred.

Have had countless thai graduates applying for programming jobs that cant complete the simplest form to db task.

Not interviewed many farrang due to limitations in work permits though have often met people giving the industry a bad name.

[OxfordWill]

I had some really very good Farang coders on certain projects- and got them at great prices thanks to them living here. But like you I have had really tough times finding Thais, and where I did find really strong cadidates, they demanded a western salary.