Thai's Oppinion Of Returning Faulty, Wrong Or Loan Goods

[Keith67]

On the 12th of April the day before songkran i went to the local computer shop 1 of 3 in the town to buy some new speakers for my PC, I’d found the ones
i wanted and the shop would order them for me B1800 all good, the guy in the shop told me as he was closed for 4 days over songkran to take another set
while i waited for the ordered ones to arrive but i declined as i already had some this was just an upgrade, he was real persistent about it and in the end
my wife told me just take them to make him feel better.

I took the speakers a new set off the shelf and pointed out i would return them unused when my order arrived, and this was agreed. Yesterday i went to the
shop to pick up my speakers and return the loan speakers still boxed and unused. The guy in the shop got my speakers out tested them to show me they
were good and repackaged them in their box, i handed the "loan" speakers which he took from the box and tested after breaking the seal and removing all the packaging and told me they worked fine. He then put the 2 sets of speakers in a bag and said it was B2440, i said no i only ordered 1 set, he then explained how i had had them for 4 days and the box was now opened so i would have to pay for them, i calmly pointed out my original refusal to the offer of loan speakers, the fact it was 4 days because his shop was closed and the reason the box was open was because he had just opened it. He then aggressively
said NO you have to pay, I barely managed to keep a straight face as he had taken no deposit for the ordered item nor the loan speakers, i stood quiet and
waited for about 30 seconds while he just looked at me then calmly said "NO" now are you going to sell me the ordered item for B1800, he said NO you have to pay for 2 sets, to this i bid him good day and left the shop.

My thoughts were why do they do these things? It’s ridiculous he lost the profit he would make on the ordered item which in the city i could buy for B1200 so
B400+ to try and make maybe an extra B30-50 on a set worth only B240.

Before anybody starts to say it was only B240 you should have just paid it and walked out, the money is not the issue the attempted deceit from initially placing an order with him was the issue.

Edited April 17, 2013 by Keith67

[FunFon]

Sounds like a misunderstanding to me.

His attitude is the norm here.

The only businesses that have anything close to what we would consider a normal returns policy are those owned and managed by foreigners or specifically catering to foreigners and hi-so Thais, as in some - only some - expensive shopping centres, and those of course charge a lot more than the regular shops.

-

Exceptions (that prove the rule) include computers and components with a warranty direct from the international manufacturer or distributor.

I've returned dozens of HDD's, less than a 30 minute turnaround walk out the door with a new one. Used to be five years, these days only three.

-

Otherwise your usually plain SOL, just ask politely and if they say no, walk away and chalk it up to experience TiT.

You learn to shop for the cheapest disposable crap, or order via re-shippers from overseas and pay through the nose for good warranty policies.

Edited April 17, 2013 by FunFon

[Keith67]

Sounds like a misunderstanding to me.

His attitude is the norm here.

The only businesses that have anything close to what we would consider a normal returns policy are those owned and managed by foreigners or specifically catering to foreigners and hi-so Thais, as in some - only some - expensive shopping centres, and those of course charge a lot more than the regular shops.

-

Exceptions (that prove the rule) include computers and components with a warranty direct from the international manufacturer or distributor.

I've returned dozens of HDD's, less than a 30 minute turnaround walk out the door with a new one. Used to be five years, these days only three.

-

Otherwise your usually plain SOL, just ask politely and if they say no, walk away and chalk it up to experience TiT.

You learn to shop for the cheapest disposable crap, or order via re-shippers from overseas and pay through the nose for good warranty policies.

Not a a missunderstanding in was clearly explained to him in Thai by my wife why i didn't require the loan speakers.

[Keith67]

Also i should explain i have used this shop on several occasions for upgrades, repairs and to buy accessories for my computers.

[USNret]

He sounds like a crook. I can't think of any other way to interpret his actions. This story is truly amazing. I'm glad that you walked out & refused to yield to his scheme, even for 240 baht. Perhaps the profit he lost on the deal will dissuade him from trying this scam on anyone else in the future.

I guess you'll need to find a new accessory shop for your future needs.

[Keith67]

He sounds like a crook. I can't think of any other way to interpret his actions. This story is truly amazing. I'm glad that you walked out & refused to yield to his scheme, even for 240 baht. Perhaps the profit he lost on the deal will dissuade him from trying this scam on anyone else in the future.

I guess you'll need to find a new accessory shop for your future needs.

I'll just use i of the other 2, but i'm at a loss to work out why he did it, i've used him on several occasions as i said with no complaints and good service. I'm not in a tourist area and his customers are mainly locals.

[h90]

Sounds like a misunderstanding to me.

His attitude is the norm here.

The only businesses that have anything close to what we would consider a normal returns policy are those owned and managed by foreigners or specifically catering to foreigners and hi-so Thais, as in some - only some - expensive shopping centres, and those of course charge a lot more than the regular shops.

-

Exceptions (that prove the rule) include computers and components with a warranty direct from the international manufacturer or distributor.

I've returned dozens of HDD's, less than a 30 minute turnaround walk out the door with a new one. Used to be five years, these days only three.

-

Otherwise your usually plain SOL, just ask politely and if they say no, walk away and chalk it up to experience TiT.

You learn to shop for the cheapest disposable crap, or order via re-shippers from overseas and pay through the nose for good warranty policies.

Not a a missunderstanding in was clearly explained to him in Thai by my wife why i didn't require the loan speakers.

Either your wife didn't explain it good....too many mai pen rays....or that you took the second set was seen as purchase......or a crook who thinks he can take some more money from that rich long nose.

I would never accepted the loan so I wouldn't got the problem.

[arthurwait]

Because he thinks everyone is as stupid as him and thinks spineless intimidation gets you what you want due to so many Thais avoiding confrontation and 'mai bpen rai' and just paying due to believing every horror story.

[HeijoshinCool]

There was a study done a few years back, it won the Nobel Prize. And a million bucks. In a nut shell, it concluded that stupid people can not comprehend that someone is smarter than they are, simply due to their own stupidy. They have limited life and educational experience, and it is impossible to imagine someone being smarter than they are. They do not recognize superior intelligence when dealing with someone, and so believe they can win any argument.

Sometimes I've heard this expressed as: stupid people think they are smart, smart people understand their limitations, and believe they have a lot to learn.

Anyway, I see that here often enough, usually in the sticks. Some people believe that they are highly intelligent, that all farang are stupid, and so they try to pull this kind of nonsense.

[USNret]

Good theory. I have often observed the corollary that dishonorable people cannot comprehend that they are surrounded by honorable people. Those who are not trustworthy think that those around them cannot be trusted.

[FunFon]

OT but - the more you know about a given topic the more you understand how little is truly known about it and how uncertain that "knowledge" is. Those expressing dogmatic certainty are simply revealing how shallow their understanding of the topic.

Back on topic, don't assume people in business here are making decisions with the goal of optimising their profits.

Rarely are things that logical here, and many many other factors have a higher priority to them.

[FunFon]

Good theory. I have often observed the corollary that dishonorable people cannot comprehend that they are surrounded by honorable people. Those who are not trustworthy think that those around them cannot be trusted.

-

Very very true.

I have friends that constantly talk about how they want to go into business with me, but on the other hand have always bragged about how they've scammed people they've been in business with in the past.

And then can't understand why I don't express enthusiasm about partnering with them. . .

[partington]

There was a study done a few years back, it won the Nobel Prize. And a million bucks. In a nut shell, it concluded that stupid people can not comprehend that someone is smarter than they are, simply due to their own stupidy. They have limited life and educational experience, and it is impossible to imagine someone being smarter than they are. They do not recognize superior intelligence when dealing with someone, and so believe they can win any argument.

Sometimes I've heard this expressed as: stupid people think they are smart, smart people understand their limitations, and believe they have a lot to learn.

Anyway, I see that here often enough, usually in the sticks. Some people believe that they are highly intelligent, that all farang are stupid, and so they try to pull this kind of nonsense.

I hate to burst your bubble but no such study won a Nobel prize.

Probably the study you are making a mistake about is the Dunning-Kruger effect, which "won" a satirical joke prize called the " Ig Nobel"

Oops!

[richard_smith237]

I see a simple misunderstanding here.

Some people only hear what the want to hear and from there misunderstandings develop.

I've seen my Wife explain something to a shop assistant (in Thai), I've understood it, but the shop assistant fetches something completely different... Some, simple don't pay attention, even after clear explanation.

In the case of the Op, he clearly explained what he wanted, the shop assistant clearly understood something else which is why he was so persistent. He's probably now on another forum explaining how a foreigner (a regular customer) ordered something then changed his mind !

I find in Thailand that I often need to double check then triple check many things and even then mistakes and misunderstandings occur. Failure to pay attention to detail is so commonly the cause of events like this.

[FunFon]

I hate to burst your bubble but no such study won a Nobel prize.

Probably the study you are making a mistake about is the Dunning-Kruger effect, which "won" a satirical joke prize called the " Ig Nobel"

-

Bravo and well spotted.

A funny piece citing the principle here.

[Keith67]

I see a simple misunderstanding here.

Some people only hear what the want to hear and from there misunderstandings develop.

I've seen my Wife explain something to a shop assistant (in Thai), I've understood it, but the shop assistant fetches something completely different... Some, simple don't pay attention, even after clear explanation.

In the case of the Op, he clearly explained what he wanted, the shop assistant clearly understood something else which is why he was so persistent. He's probably now on another forum explaining how a foreigner (a regular customer) ordered something then changed his mind !

I find in Thailand that I often need to double check then triple check many things and even then mistakes and misunderstandings occur. Failure to pay attention to detail is so commonly the cause of events like this.

He will also be able to complain how i cancelled the new macbook pro i ordered with him too in this case......

Joking aside i really don't understand the concept of what he did, OK if it was a missunderstanding why, when i handed him the unopened still sealed box of loan speakers did he not ask what was the problem instead of just opening them and checking them?

[Keith67]

Sounds like a misunderstanding to me.

His attitude is the norm here.

The only businesses that have anything close to what we would consider a normal returns policy are those owned and managed by foreigners or specifically catering to foreigners and hi-so Thais, as in some - only some - expensive shopping centres, and those of course charge a lot more than the regular shops.

-

Exceptions (that prove the rule) include computers and components with a warranty direct from the international manufacturer or distributor.

I've returned dozens of HDD's, less than a 30 minute turnaround walk out the door with a new one. Used to be five years, these days only three.

-

Otherwise your usually plain SOL, just ask politely and if they say no, walk away and chalk it up to experience TiT.

You learn to shop for the cheapest disposable crap, or order via re-shippers from overseas and pay through the nose for good warranty policies.

Not a a missunderstanding in was clearly explained to him in Thai by my wife why i didn't require the loan speakers.

Either your wife didn't explain it good....too many mai pen rays....or that you took the second set was seen as purchase......or a crook who thinks he can take some more money from that rich long nose.

I would never accepted the loan so I wouldn't got the problem.

Agreed had it been a shop i had never previously used i would do exactly the same.

[Stradavarius37]

Why didn't you bring your wife with you on the second trip to help translate?

[Stradavarius37]

Good theory. I have often observed the corollary that dishonorable people cannot comprehend that they are surrounded by honorable people. Those who are not trustworthy think that those around them cannot be trusted.

-

Very very true.

I have friends that constantly talk about how they want to go into business with me, but on the other hand have always bragged about how they've scammed people they've been in business with in the past.

And then can't understand why I don't express enthusiasm about partnering with them. . .

Knowing your failing with financial issues and bad money management, I know exactly why they want to go into business with you lol.

[HeijoshinCool]

There was a study done a few years back, it won the Nobel Prize. And a million bucks. In a nut shell, it concluded that stupid people can not comprehend that someone is smarter than they are, simply due to their own stupidy. They have limited life and educational experience, and it is impossible to imagine someone being smarter than they are. They do not recognize superior intelligence when dealing with someone, and so believe they can win any argument.

Sometimes I've heard this expressed as: stupid people think they are smart, smart people understand their limitations, and believe they have a lot to learn.

Anyway, I see that here often enough, usually in the sticks. Some people believe that they are highly intelligent, that all farang are stupid, and so they try to pull this kind of nonsense.

I hate to burst your bubble but no such study won a Nobel prize.

Probably the study you are making a mistake about is the Dunning-Kruger effect, which "won" a satirical joke prize called the " Ig Nobel"

Oops!

Hey, you know, you're right! The really funny thing is, I looked on my external hard drive, where I save a lot of stuff that I find interesting, and from four years ago, it states they won the Nobel, not the ig Nobel. So, apparently since I originally read it, it has corrected.

Anyway, still holds water.

[FunFon]

Knowing your failing with financial issues and bad money management, I know exactly why they want to go into business with you lol.

-

Yes, in all my previous enterprises, no matter how successful the sales & marketing side, lack of caution on the finances have been my achilles heel.

But no matter how skilled an accountant someone is if I can't trust them they're not much good to me are they. . .

[tfc]

I was shocked when I went to Goodspeed computers which I think primarily serves Thais to return a day old modem that I found out I didn't need. At best I expected store credit and at worst a "no can do." The guy walks out the back comes back with 1700 baht hands it to me. I can't get that sort of service back home.

[Keith67]

Why didn't you bring your wife with you on the second trip to help translate?

I didn't see there would be a problem, just pick up the new speakers and give back the boxed loan ones.

I did ask her when i returned what the conversation was she had with him, she said she explained to him i would give back the loan speakers and buy the ordered item ans she said he agreed that was fine.

[Keith67]

Quick update,

My wife and i went to the computer shop 2 doors down today and ordered the same speaker set from him, I asked how long till they arrive and he said tomorrow, i got my wife to tell him the shop just down from him had a set and explain what had happened the previous day after she did this he told us to wait,

5 mins later he returns with the speakers from the other shop, i bought them and he asked me not to mention the sale to the owner of the other shop as he didn't want any problems with them.

[h90]

Quick update,

My wife and i went to the computer shop 2 doors down today and ordered the same speaker set from him, I asked how long till they arrive and he said tomorrow, i got my wife to tell him the shop just down from him had a set and explain what had happened the previous day after she did this he told us to wait,

5 mins later he returns with the speakers from the other shop, i bought them and he asked me not to mention the sale to the owner of the other shop as he didn't want any problems with them.

[HoudiniXLogic]

Too many "mai pen rai"s can totally get you ripped off.

One time, the appartment owner of my buddys place had a painter painting the outside wall of a building. Anyways, I see him hovering at the room for a little while painting and I didnt mind him much. He definately heard us speaking English also. My buddy had 5000 baht in cash lying on his dresser. So anyways, we go down to grab a bite and when we come back, the 5000 baht is missing and theres paint marks in the room (footprints and a swap on the balcony door). So anyways, the evidence is there and clear, we go down to the building owner to get this situation settled.

Well I'm also involved because my Thai is fluent and my buddy's Russian, so he didnt need someone not understanding what is going on. I explain the situation to the building owner, but what I get instead was the building owner saying "Nah nah that can't be him, did you misplace the money?" and other forms of denial questions. There were a lot of "mai pen rai's", enough so that phrase didnt make sense anymore. At first I thought he was taking us for stupid farangs and gave him hell for it, and he replies with this "Listen! I'm not taking your friend for a stupid farang or anything. The guy who is doing the painting is my nephew, and he would never steal, he's a good boy."

So at this point I realised that he's either ignorant that his nephew pretends to be an angel in front of him, or that he knows the kid is effed with the law or something. I tell him to bring his nephew in there and he goes to fetch the kid. Basically when the kid comes into the office, he's a bit wide-eyed. But it was nothing compared to the look of horror that overcame his eyes when he learned that I could speak fluent Thai.

So I ask the kid straight up did he come into my buddys room and take the money, because theres paint marks on the floor and he's the only one painting. He admitted that he did go into my buddys room because he had to use the bathroom, but that he didn't take the money. At this point I've had it. I flipped and asked whether he thought that my buddy was a stupid farang or something, to which he was still refusing. I made up some stuff saying that I had an uncle who was a high ranking officer and some other BS, to which point, knowing Thai people, they wouldnt dare question a person's relations (and not ask questions they might not want to know answers to). So after this, they become more compliant. I ask the kid whether he took my friends money, and he still denied. I told him that I would have cops come and get fingerprints front the room and his fingerprints, at which point he takes 5000 baht out of a fold in his pants legs, gave it to my friend and then knelt down asking for me not to call the cops on him. His uncle begged me to not call the cops, and then grabbed a wrench and started wailing on the kid. Thought of intervening, but once more family members got involved, it turned into a real life Thai soap opera.

My buddy moved out of that place the next day. Got his deposit back and everything, considering that he signed a 1 year contract and he only stayed there for 4 and a half months.

[kevvy]

Sounds like a misunderstanding to me.

His attitude is the norm here.

The only businesses that have anything close to what we would consider a normal returns policy are those owned and managed by foreigners or specifically catering to foreigners and hi-so Thais, as in some - only some - expensive shopping centres, and those of course charge a lot more than the regular shops.

-

Exceptions (that prove the rule) include computers and components with a warranty direct from the international manufacturer or distributor.

I've returned dozens of HDD's, less than a 30 minute turnaround walk out the door with a new one. Used to be five years, these days only three.

-

Otherwise your usually plain SOL, just ask politely and if they say no, walk away and chalk it up to experience TiT.

You learn to shop for the cheapest disposable crap, or order via re-shippers from overseas and pay through the nose for good warranty policies.

will you landlady chalked it up to experience?

[norrona]

I see a simple misunderstanding here.

Some people only hear what the want to hear and from there misunderstandings develop.

I've seen my Wife explain something to a shop assistant (in Thai), I've understood it, but the shop assistant fetches something completely different... Some, simple don't pay attention, even after clear explanation.

In the case of the Op, he clearly explained what he wanted, the shop assistant clearly understood something else which is why he was so persistent. He's probably now on another forum explaining how a foreigner (a regular customer) ordered something then changed his mind !

I find in Thailand that I often need to double check then triple check many things and even then mistakes and misunderstandings occur. Failure to pay attention to detail is so commonly the cause of events like this.

He will also be able to complain how i cancelled the new macbook pro i ordered with him too in this case......

Joking aside i really don't understand the concept of what he did, OK if it was a missunderstanding why, when i handed him the unopened still sealed box of loan speakers did he not ask what was the problem instead of just opening them and checking them?

what would really get his goat is if you were on the phone outside his shop with a the computer box and a few other items....just for the hell of it

[kevvy]

Good theory. I have often observed the corollary that dishonorable people cannot comprehend that they are surrounded by honorable people. Those who are not trustworthy think that those around them cannot be trusted.

-

Very very true.

I have friends that constantly talk about how they want to go into business with me, but on the other hand have always bragged about how they've scammed people they've been in business with in the past.

And then can't understand why I don't express enthusiasm about partnering with them. . .

and you haven't scam nice landladies what a joke

[Keith67]

I see a simple misunderstanding here.

Some people only hear what the want to hear and from there misunderstandings develop.

I've seen my Wife explain something to a shop assistant (in Thai), I've understood it, but the shop assistant fetches something completely different... Some, simple don't pay attention, even after clear explanation.

In the case of the Op, he clearly explained what he wanted, the shop assistant clearly understood something else which is why he was so persistent. He's probably now on another forum explaining how a foreigner (a regular customer) ordered something then changed his mind !

I find in Thailand that I often need to double check then triple check many things and even then mistakes and misunderstandings occur. Failure to pay attention to detail is so commonly the cause of events like this.

He will also be able to complain how i cancelled the new macbook pro i ordered with him too in this case......

Joking aside i really don't understand the concept of what he did, OK if it was a missunderstanding why, when i handed him the unopened still sealed box of loan speakers did he not ask what was the problem instead of just opening them and checking them?

what would really get his goat is if you were on the phone outside his shop with a the computer box and a few other items....just for the hell of it

Nice idea but i haven't ordered the new one from the new shop yet, i'd like to see how things work out with them first, i am always buying smaller items for computers, the kids come home from school with requests for somthing new near every week only small items B50 here B100 there but it mounts up over time, i'm not in a desperate need for it just thought i would upgrade to a new 1, i could go into the city and buy 1 probably cheaper but were only talking small amounts so i would really prefer to give the business to a local shop.