Should We Learn The Language?

[OldChinaHam]

Good Job, Geriatric!

Trying to learn Thai is enough for me, I don't want to even think about learning Turkish. I read one of your other comments about learning Thai and it was inspirational. I speak another tonal language so this might be of some assistance to me in learning Thai. When I can discuss dialectical materialism sensibly in all dialects of Thai, I will let you know.

Until then, its back to the salt mines to brush up on my Thai.

[phuketsub]

Thai language being a tonal language is difficult for Westerners, but I found that most asians learn to speak it fairly fluently.

I suppose because most asian languages are tonal as well so they have an ear for it.

I may be wrong.

The tonal element is not a quantum leap.

Even though I had no exposure to Thai until I was in my twenties, I still find it easier to memorize things like phone numbers in Thai than in my native tongue (English).

I can still get very frustrated trying to communicate in Thai; there seems to be a lack of inherent, grammatical specificity in it, at least compared to what I am used to in English. But I still find 25+ years of study one of the most satisfying pursuits I have ever undertaken -- even when my 7-year-old daughter corrects my pronunciation.

All that said, when I moved to Thailand in 1989 there was no cable tv, internet or anything like that, so you really did have to learn it if you wanted to make yourself understood.

Perhaps we are all headed towards a world of globalization and Google translation; I understand the OP's question, but I think if you have the ability to learn a foreign language it will make your life more fulfilling if you invest some time to learn some basic Thai.

[ABCer]

kiniyow - Control or Destiny, but never together! If you believe in Destiny, how can you Control it? And visa-versa.

Genericnic - I agree with you to a point: in my home country, when the immigrants came to live, work, get permanent residency, even citizenship, - 'yes and yes' works. I cannot see anything like this here.

SteelyJoe - No grudges! Once again, my 'freak-farang' was never meant as an insult, I applied it to all of us, emphasizing that no matter how hard we try we'll never be accepted as 'normal', not even by our wives and their families (see post

"I am still Farang"). Regarding your 'contradiction' sentence let me quote:

I said: "If I did, what great piece of world culture would I be able to read in original?..." - clearly meaning that I do not know any pieces written in Thai as significant as Bible,....etc.

You said: " Have you learned Chinese or Sanskrit or Latin or Arabic any number of languages in which you could read "great pieces of world culture in original"? - to me this contradicts not only my thought, but your own, as I never wanted to learn them.

In any case, my position is: THERE IS NO INCENTIVE to learn a totally alien language with alien alphabet, alien phonetics and tone based language. Most Thai people around me speak English.

Kananga - I do not care what others say about me. In any case, when they talk to me, they are nice.

Neeranam - This is exactly what I was saying. Spanish is Latin group of languages. The alphabet is easy for me and your parents. Give me Acapulco anytime.

[mixolydian]

I think it depends on who you work and socialize with. I work in an international setting in Bangkok and we all use English. my Thai friends speak English much better than I speak Thai. I've made an independent effort to learn some Thai but I just don't need it much with my day to day interactions.

if I lived in a rural area I would definitely make it a priority. to each their own though

[Genericnic]

I think it depends on who you work and socialize with. I work in an international setting in Bangkok and we all use English. my Thai friends speak English much better than I speak Thai. I've made an independent effort to learn some Thai but I just don't need it much with my day to day interactions.

if I lived in a rural area I would definitely make it a priority. to each their own though

If you stay in the Bangkok bubble you may not need to learn Thai but you will also miss out on some of the best things in Thailand. Thailand is so much more than just Bangkok.

David

[Ajaan]

Here's a simple way for the individual to answer this question: ask yourself: "Do I think it's okay for immigrants to come to live in my home country and refuse to learn to speak the national language? When immigrants do that, does it cause me to think less of them?"

I'm betting that the ones who live there for years yet refuse to learn Thai--and I know a lot of them, sadly--are the same ones most vocal about the "lazy" immigrants in their own country.

[poanoi]

Here's a simple way for the individual to answer this question: ask yourself: "Do I think it's okay for immigrants to come to live in my home country and refuse to learn to speak the national language? When immigrants do that, does it cause me to think less of them?"

I'm betting that the ones who live there for years yet refuse to learn Thai--and I know a lot of them, sadly--are the same ones most vocal about the "lazy" immigrants in their own country.

I dont give a rats arse about what they say, i oppose to pay taxes to feed them, pay their education, housing,

learning my language, and then when it is concluded that they are good for nuthing give them a life-long pension so they can relocate to, for example Thailand.

Take note that immigrants to my country dont spend a dime on learning my language, -i do, through tax,

but in Thailand it is yet me again who have to pay for language lessons.

Sorry but your apples to oranges comparison is pointless

[Evolare]

Learn the language I get much more respect from thais since i learned the language. Tricky people dont like it but normal people do. I use it to my advantage when negotiating in business...pretend not to understand sometimes and then use whatever they say against them....

[7by7]

...

...

I agree - I think to get a non-imm visa one should be made pass a test, like all civilized countries.

I've never been obliged to learn a language, in all the countries I've worked. I think you're letting your prejudices ride your imagination roughshod over your common sense

SC

Possibly, but doesn't the UK and USA require a certain standard of English to be able to work there? TEFL, TOEIC etc

Only for citizenship.

Can't speak for the USA; but the UK requires a certain level of English from most applicants who wish to come to the UK to study, work or live.

Applicants have to prove they've reached this level in order to get their visa; unless they are living in an Anglophone country already.

The level required to live indefinitley in the UK is the same as that required for British citizenship.

Those who wish to obtain indefinite leave to remain in the UK, or become British citizens, have to pay for their own language lessons at the foriegn student rate. Unless they've lived in the UK for at least three years after which they can pay the same as a British student would.

But the lessons are never free. Neither are the exams.

Edited April 23, 2013 by 7by7

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I've never been obliged to learn a language, in all the countries I've worked. I think you're letting your prejudices ride your imagination roughshod over your common sense

SC

Possibly, but doesn't the UK and USA require a certain standard of English to be able to work there? TEFL, TOEIC etc

Only for citizenship.

Can't speak for the USA; but the UK requires a certain level of English not just for citizenship but also to come to the UK to study, work or live.

The level required to live indefinitley in the UK is the same as that required for British citizenship.

Learning English is useful for many countries, and an international business language.

Learning Central Thai is not much use for anything and it's not as if they are going to give you citizenship, no matter how hard you try.

[JaiLai]

I think it depends on who you work and socialize with. I work in an international setting in Bangkok and we all use English. my Thai friends speak English much better than I speak Thai. I've made an independent effort to learn some Thai but I just don't need it much with my day to day interactions.

if I lived in a rural area I would definitely make it a priority. to each their own though

If you stay in the Bangkok bubble you may not need to learn Thai but you will also miss out on some of the best things in Thailand. Thailand is so much more than just Bangkok.

David

Pls tell me what will we miss out on?

Personally i think ignorance is bliss, in certain cases it's horrible to hear the way Thai's speak TO and ABOUT each other as well as farangs. It's also an eye opener to hear what they say though, i am bewildered with what goes through their little brains on a daily basis.

[mixolydian]

hey now! I like my bubble

Edited April 23, 2013 by mixolydian

[Pormax]

Which Thai language will you learn?

Southern, Issan, Central or Lanna?

City or village or Hill-tribe?

Chances of your loved one or her family speaking Central Thai as a first language are practically zero.

Speaking some backwoods dialect will do you no good at all in any city or other area of the country.

You end up learning central Thai, and all her relatives chat away with each other in another dialect that you still can't speak or understand.

Totally agree with you but my situation is even worse.

I speak a little Thai but is practically no use in my Issan village as they all speak Cambodian. The next village less than 1km away all speak Laos. I have very little chance in joining in a conversation. When I do try and speak Thai what sounds correct to me still gets the puzzled look from the Thais as an English man speaking Thai is not the same as local Thai speaking Thai.

[philotruth]

My thai wife and I created a windows software program with 30,000 + audio files that i am porting to android, for learning thai and english for thai's. at learnitbetter.com

if you are too poor to pay the price send me an email of any offer and I'll hook you up.

11.000 words with accurate sound

[transam]

Went to a Vietnam restaurant today to buy bread. With broken Lao I asked for six bread rolls, he said, ''I am from Nam, don't speak Thai, what do you want''.

[7by7]

AnotherOneAmerican,

I edited my post while you were typing; apols.

I was addressing a specific point erroneously made by StreetCowboy.

However, I do believe that if you are going to live in a country leaning the language not only makes your life easier, it also shows a courtesy to your hosts.

As for which dialect you should learn; I suppose it depends on where you are living.

Learning the 'national' dialect, if there is such a thing I suppose it's that spoken on national TV stations, may get you some funny looks, but you will probably be understood.

If living in a region with a different dialect with your spouse and his/her family leaning that is the first step to picking up their dialect.

I am a native English speaker; born and bred in the South of England. Whenever I go to Newcastle the Geordies can understand me, but I can't understand them unless they make the effort to adapt their speech for me!

Which being the friendly, hospitable people they are, they usually do.

[janejira]

If I am in the USA, I expect people to speak English and get frustrated when people try to make the country "dual language" with Spanish. There is nothing wrong with speaking Spanish in the USA, but English is the national language and people should know how to speak it. I feel the same way about Thai and Thailand.

I'm not sure if anyone has touched on this yet, but as far as I know the USA has no "national language." Several states have made English the official language, but the US as a whole does not have one.

That being said, I don't understand your expectation that everyone in the US should know how to speak English.

[onionluke]

[orpheus454]

To integrate into the community you need to be Thai.

Crap.

Learning the language is not relevant to that concept.

Learning Thai has other advantages when outside the main tourist areas, but it also has many disadvantages.

Such as...?

It won't stop them calling you the "f" word either.

Poor little precious...!

[orpheus454]

Which Thai language will you learn?

Southern, Issan, Central or Lanna?

City or village or Hill-tribe?

Chances of your loved one or her family speaking Central Thai as a first language are practically zero.

Speaking some backwoods dialect will do you no good at all in any city or other area of the country.

You end up learning central Thai, and all her relatives chat away with each other in another dialect that you still can't speak or understand.

So, can't speak a word, eh...?

[JDGRUEN]

Thai is not among the easiest languages (French, Italian, Indonesian)

for Westerners but it is very far from being the most difficult

(Chinese, Japanese, Arabic)

no offence meant Khun Jayboy but i think you possess a wealth of no idea when

it concerns the languages you mentioned.

No offence taken because it's not my original thought.It's the view of many professional linguists including the astonishingly accomplished J.Marvin Brown whom many older hands will remember as the main developer of the AUA Thai Course.

A linguist by definition is some one accomplished in languages. Sometimes these same professionals have no idea how hard it is for others to learn languages. I personally have a difficult time with the tones. Also trying to find an accomplished teacher within the confines of my work schedule. The few Thai words and statements I know often hit a brick wall. Not solely due to pronunciation but also the inability of many Thais in hearing thai from a foreigner.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

I understand your problem with some Thais inability to even realize that the farang i speaking Thai.

I just downloaded a Thai reading application on my ipad for my 6 year old daughter and thought wow, if they had had this 20 years ago it would have saved me so much time. Great app with sound - learn all the different tones, letters etc.

May I ask the name of that App or the publisher, website, etc. Thank you.

[nontabury]

It turns out I'm too stupid to learn Thai. After 16 years of trying and failing miserably I concluded that my time was better spent learning how to survive here without knowing the language.

+1, although for some unknown reason I am very good with the Thai Numbers,and I can add up and subtract Etc,better than most Thais.

Just thought,that does't mean much,as most Thais require a calculator to add one and one.

[Keith67]

My retired parents who have full lives playing golf, cookery classes, history club, charity work, religious stuff, bowling, visiting friends, dinners out, opera, movies, bingo, etc. They couldn't of course do this if they couldn't speak the language.

When I retire I want a similar full life and speaking the language of the country I choose to retire in is essential. I wouldn't choose a country where I couldn't or wouldn't learn. Sounds like a nightmare.

Italian Opera.

Many of the traditional operas were sung in Neapolitan, so most Italians (and everyone else) can't understand the language, but they still attend.

Neopolitan is only a dialect of Italian 85% of the language is still the same it's just a few words that are changed, the same as many different dialect in Thailand they all understand virtualy all of what is said.

My ex-wife learnt Italian at school in Milan, her father was born in Naples so spoke Neopolitan, but they could still comunicate and hold conversations with each other and family members when we visited Italy.

[orpheus454]

I couldnt live here without speaking thai and I really wonder how people that dont speak manage to live here, not get frustrated or riped off all the time

i wonder how frustrated Thais get who would like to rip me off and find out that "no business and therefore rip off no can do" if they don't master a language in which i can communicate too.

Can't speak a word, eh...?

[Neeranam]

Possibly, but doesn't the UK and USA require a certain standard of English to be able to work there? TEFL, TOEIC etc

Only for citizenship.

Can't speak for the USA; but the UK requires a certain level of English not just for citizenship but also to come to the UK to study, work or live.

The level required to live indefinitley in the UK is the same as that required for British citizenship.

Learning English is useful for many countries, and an international business language.

Learning Central Thai is not much use for anything and it's not as if they are going to give you citizenship, no matter how hard you try.

Thanks 7by7, that's what I thought but no one else did. I used to teach many Thais going to the US also who needed a certain score in a TOEIC or maybe TOEFL. Ones going to Oz and NZ also needed a certain level of proficiency in English.

^^ If you are married to a Thai and have paid tax for 3 years, it's very easy to get Thai citizenship, much easier than many developed countries. You don't even need to be able to read and write Thai.

Please explain how you think they are never going to give it to you.

Edited April 23, 2013 by Neeranam

[Chonburiram]

Yes

[laislica]

All depends on the reasons why you here and what you doing.

If one comes here to do business, absolutely must.

If one is retired and married, it may not be as necessary, though sure would not hurt

I must say though, in my opinion ONLY, putting aside that Thai is a very difficult language, Thai are not too eager to teach the language.

There are thousands of people who learned English as a second language and can speak it pretty fluently, while there are very few who managed to learn Thai fluently(not in their opinion , but Thai opinion)

I'm sorry to say that I am to tired to read this thread but I would like to give my two penny's worth anyway.

I think that it is only right and proper that when you live in a community for a long(ish) time, you make an effort to learn what ever is necessary to communicate with other members of that community.

Now, I'm not necessarily talking about languages here.

Rather, even dialect.

e.g.in Newcastle, Glasgow, Bow (London), Derby, Wales, it can be "quite a work to understand them" as my Swedish friend used to say. In fact, he thought that different languages were spoken in each place! In a way he was right. (Amn gan yan - I am going home.) Exactly the same in Chinese, the written text is spoken differently by every dialect. (And what a lot of fun you can have with that, zero in one dialect is Titty (nom) in another, a good laugh in a nightclub.....)

If you live anywhere for long enough you MUST learn the local lingo or go mad?

Now you may not need to be fluent, to read and write it, but you should at least be able to communicate. Buy something without being totally ripped off, go somewhere by local transport alone, oh, and get back.....

It may need a lot of hand waving (be very careful not to use the feet in Thailand).

You may have to go the long way round to get the ball over the net, just keep doing your best and at least try and above all, keep SMILING!

Good luck and most of all, have fun.

[nontabury]

Neeranam

If you are married to a Thai and have paid tax for 3 years, it's very easy to get Thai citizenship, much easier than many developed countries. You don't even need to be able to read and write Thai.Please explain how you think they are never going to give it to you.

Don't know why you think this,as it's just not so. Very difficult and is usually a long process for a Farang to obtain Thai citizenship. Simple check out how many farangs gain a Thai passport each year.

[laislica]

I couldnt live here without speaking thai and I really wonder how people that dont speak manage to live here, not get frustrated or riped off all the time

i wonder how frustrated Thais get who would like to rip me off and find out that "no business and therefore rip off no can do" if they don't master a language in which i can communicate too.

Can't speak a word, eh...?

Erm, actually, as a dear old friend of mine used to say:

If you could speak, what would you say?

[Neeranam]

Thai is not among the easiest languages (French, Italian, Indonesian)

for Westerners but it is very far from being the most difficult

(Chinese, Japanese, Arabic)

no offence meant Khun Jayboy but i think you possess a wealth of no idea when

it concerns the languages you mentioned.

No offence taken because it's not my original thought.It's the view of many professional linguists including the astonishingly accomplished J.Marvin Brown whom many older hands will remember as the main developer of the AUA Thai Course.

A linguist by definition is some one accomplished in languages. Sometimes these same professionals have no idea how hard it is for others to learn languages. I personally have a difficult time with the tones. Also trying to find an accomplished teacher within the confines of my work schedule. The few Thai words and statements I know often hit a brick wall. Not solely due to pronunciation but also the inability of many Thais in hearing thai from a foreigner.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

I understand your problem with some Thais inability to even realize that the farang i speaking Thai.

I just downloaded a Thai reading application on my ipad for my 6 year old daughter and thought wow, if they had had this 20 years ago it would have saved me so much time. Great app with sound - learn all the different tones, letters etc.

May I ask the name of that App or the publisher, website, etc. Thank you.

For vowels

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/iread-thai-vowel/id481617929

The same publisher has some other books too

for eg, https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/basic-1-000-words-sentences/id487079632