Liverpool F.c.

[StevieH]

ob

sessed.

[sharecropper]

ob

sessed.

Bo

red????????????

[StevieH]

who, me? not as bored as those everton and united fans posting in a liverpool thread clearly.

how's that evertonian summer going again? the chairman of the people's club refusing to meet with the people you say? kenwright asleep at the wheel as the moyesmobile goes carooming into a wall?

[uptheos]

Downing is a good signing at a fair price considering the market.

Downing is a great buy and one I predicted for Liverpool last season after they signed Carroll. However, I also advised Liverpool at the time to sign Young as well, but did they take any notice?

[StevieH]

Downing is a good signing at a fair price considering the market.

Downing is a great buy and one I predicted for Liverpool last season after they signed Carroll. However, I also advised Liverpool at the time to sign Young as well, but did they take any notice?

i can handle not getting young - apparently he was always set on going to united and we can't compete with them over individual transfers right now.

i think downing's going to prove to be a really good signing. charlie adam too as it goes.

[bkkjames]

Downing is a good signing at a fair price considering the market.

Downing is a great buy and one I predicted for Liverpool last season after they signed Carroll. However, I also advised Liverpool at the time to sign Young as well, but did they take any notice?

i can handle not getting young - apparently he was always set on going to united and we can't compete with them over individual transfers right now.

i think downing's going to prove to be a really good signing. charlie adam too as it goes.

I agree stevie, you can get two Charlie Adams for one Aquilani - surprised Rafa didn't go for downing or Adam before

[MrRed]

^They weren't Spanish enough!

[bkkjames]

Red, aqualini is italian I think. The ini is a dead giveaway?

[StevieH]

'ani', james. aquil'ani'.

[sharecropper]

Red, aqualini is italian I think. The ini is a dead giveaway?

Dead giveaway should be his motto. His Anfield career is dead, but they paid so much for him they can't bring themselves to give him away.

[sharecropper]

who, me? not as bored as those everton and united fans posting in a liverpool thread clearly.

how's that evertonian summer going again? the chairman of the people's club refusing to meet with the people you say? kenwright asleep at the wheel as the moyesmobile goes carooming into a wall?

It's nice to see you lot off the canvas for a change. Excellent.

I just hope it lasts - you've had the "I blame the owners, the debt, the manager, the beach ball, moneybags United for nicking our crown" season. I hope next season is better for you.

I will be watching.

[StevieH]

who, me? not as bored as those everton and united fans posting in a liverpool thread clearly.

how's that evertonian summer going again? the chairman of the people's club refusing to meet with the people you say? kenwright asleep at the wheel as the moyesmobile goes carooming into a wall?

It's nice to see you lot off the canvas for a change. Excellent.

I just hope it lasts - you've had the "I blame the owners, the debt, the manager, the beach ball, moneybags United for nicking our crown" season. I hope next season is better for you.

I will be watching.

i am really looking forward to the new season already and have frankly been in hog heaven since kenny dalglish returned to the manager's job anyway. from new year to may was fun, which following your football team should be.

do you remember fun? back around the time of the steven / reid / bracewell / sheedy midfield wasn't it?

[uptheos]

i am really looking forward to the new season already and have frankly been in hog heaven since kenny dalglish returned to the manager's job anyway.

I think he has bought well and I think Liverpool are going to cause quite a few upsets this season.

[sharecropper]

do you remember fun? back around the time of the steven / reid / bracewell / sheedy midfield wasn't it?

And I bet you were chucking your dummy out the pram then as well: "they're rubbish them Everton, mummy".

Anyway, I was having a lot of fun last season beating you 2-0 and drawing with you at Anfield. Roll on next season.

[Abrak]

Lets not forget Luis Suarez - by far the most important signing done by this team.

Just scored two goals to put Uruguay in the finals of the Copa America.

[StevieH]

Lets not forget Luis Suarez - by far the most important signing done by this team.

Just scored two goals to put Uruguay in the finals of the Copa America.

he's boss. going to get better and better and score more goals next season too i think.

[Abrak]

I think we would all agree that there are only 6 big players in the Premiership.

In my view the results split them into 4 + 2. The +2 being Liverpool and Spurs.

I dont think that you can derive much between the teams by looking at how they have played against each other. I dont think that say Liverpool can claim that they are better than Chelsea because they got the double against them or that Spurs are better than Liverpool because they scored a double against them. These matches are always likely to be close. Liverpool might well have improved their team but it is likely they will still be beaten by United at Old Trafford.

Where you can see a big gap is the performance of these teams against the bottom six. The teams with depth and quality throughout their squad dont lose many points against them. However if you are dropping large numbers of points against the worst clubs there has to be something wrong.

So if we look at points lost against the bottom 6 out of a maximum of 36 we see....

Liverpool 21

Spurs 19

City 9

United 7

Chelsea 6

Arsenal 4

Basically the top 4 are too good to drop many points against the worst clubs. If Spurs had dropped 9 points (like City who were the worst of the top 4) instead of 19 against the bottom 6, they would have come second. Liverpool dropped 21 against Arsenal's 4 a differential of 17 and got beaten in the league by them by 10 points. (And yes we were guilty of dropping these points under Dalglish as well as Hodgson.)

So that is where I hope our signings make a big difference, that we can put away the lesser clubs with ease. The top clubs we are bound to have mixed results against. But you have to be consistently better than those at the bottom.

[uptheos]

Lets not forget Luis Suarez - by far the most important signing done by this team.

Just scored two goals to put Uruguay in the finals of the Copa America.

Great player, but I noticed as time went on he started going over and rolling around more and more. I hope he takes this out of his game and concentrates on demonstrating the skills he is endowed with.

[bkkjames]

Lets not forget Luis Suarez - by far the most important signing done by this team.

Just scored two goals to put Uruguay in the finals of the Copa America.

Great player, but I noticed as time went on he started going over and rolling around more and more. I hope he takes this out of his game and concentrates on demonstrating the skills he is endowed with.

Torres must have left his guide book in his locker on his way out.

[uptheos]

Lets not forget Luis Suarez - by far the most important signing done by this team.

Just scored two goals to put Uruguay in the finals of the Copa America.

Great player, but I noticed as time went on he started going over and rolling around more and more. I hope he takes this out of his game and concentrates on demonstrating the skills he is endowed with.

Torres must have left his guide book in his locker on his way out.

Who??

[sharecropper]

I think we would all agree that there are only 6 big players in the Premiership.

In my view the results split them into 4 + 2. The +2 being Liverpool and Spurs.

I dont think that you can derive much between the teams by looking at how they have played against each other. I dont think that say Liverpool can claim that they are better than Chelsea because they got the double against them or that Spurs are better than Liverpool because they scored a double against them. These matches are always likely to be close. Liverpool might well have improved their team but it is likely they will still be beaten by United at Old Trafford.

Where you can see a big gap is the performance of these teams against the bottom six. The teams with depth and quality throughout their squad dont lose many points against them. However if you are dropping large numbers of points against the worst clubs there has to be something wrong.

So if we look at points lost against the bottom 6 out of a maximum of 36 we see....

Liverpool 21

Spurs 19

City 9

United 7

Chelsea 6

Arsenal 4

Basically the top 4 are too good to drop many points against the worst clubs. If Spurs had dropped 9 points (like City who were the worst of the top 4) instead of 19 against the bottom 6, they would have come second. Liverpool dropped 21 against Arsenal's 4 a differential of 17 and got beaten in the league by them by 10 points. (And yes we were guilty of dropping these points under Dalglish as well as Hodgson.)

So that is where I hope our signings make a big difference, that we can put away the lesser clubs with ease. The top clubs we are bound to have mixed results against. But you have to be consistently better than those at the bottom.

Interesting stats. I think Arsenal will materially decline next season with a weaker squad, and Liverpool will materially improve, with their much stronger one, with Spurs about the same, so you should expect a top four finish.

[smokie36]

I think we would all agree that there are only 6 big players in the Premiership.

In my view the results split them into 4 + 2. The +2 being Liverpool and Spurs.

I dont think that you can derive much between the teams by looking at how they have played against each other. I dont think that say Liverpool can claim that they are better than Chelsea because they got the double against them or that Spurs are better than Liverpool because they scored a double against them. These matches are always likely to be close. Liverpool might well have improved their team but it is likely they will still be beaten by United at Old Trafford.

Where you can see a big gap is the performance of these teams against the bottom six. The teams with depth and quality throughout their squad dont lose many points against them. However if you are dropping large numbers of points against the worst clubs there has to be something wrong.

So if we look at points lost against the bottom 6 out of a maximum of 36 we see....

Liverpool 21

Spurs 19

City 9

United 7

Chelsea 6

Arsenal 4

Basically the top 4 are too good to drop many points against the worst clubs. If Spurs had dropped 9 points (like City who were the worst of the top 4) instead of 19 against the bottom 6, they would have come second. Liverpool dropped 21 against Arsenal's 4 a differential of 17 and got beaten in the league by them by 10 points. (And yes we were guilty of dropping these points under Dalglish as well as Hodgson.)

So that is where I hope our signings make a big difference, that we can put away the lesser clubs with ease. The top clubs we are bound to have mixed results against. But you have to be consistently better than those at the bottom.

Interesting stats. I think Arsenal will materially decline next season with a weaker squad, and Liverpool will materially improve, with their much stronger one, with Spurs about the same, so you should expect a top four finish.

Hopefully if we can cure our inability to score in some of these matches....well let's just say its going to be a tough battle providing we get a striker or two.

[carmine]

I think we would all agree that there are only 6 big players in the Premiership.

In my view the results split them into 4 + 2. The +2 being Liverpool and Spurs.

I dont think that you can derive much between the teams by looking at how they have played against each other. I dont think that say Liverpool can claim that they are better than Chelsea because they got the double against them or that Spurs are better than Liverpool because they scored a double against them. These matches are always likely to be close. Liverpool might well have improved their team but it is likely they will still be beaten by United at Old Trafford.

Where you can see a big gap is the performance of these teams against the bottom six. The teams with depth and quality throughout their squad dont lose many points against them. However if you are dropping large numbers of points against the worst clubs there has to be something wrong.

So if we look at points lost against the bottom 6 out of a maximum of 36 we see....

Liverpool 21

Spurs 19

City 9

United 7

Chelsea 6

Arsenal 4

Basically the top 4 are too good to drop many points against the worst clubs. If Spurs had dropped 9 points (like City who were the worst of the top 4) instead of 19 against the bottom 6, they would have come second. Liverpool dropped 21 against Arsenal's 4 a differential of 17 and got beaten in the league by them by 10 points. (And yes we were guilty of dropping these points under Dalglish as well as Hodgson.)

So that is where I hope our signings make a big difference, that we can put away the lesser clubs with ease. The top clubs we are bound to have mixed results against. But you have to be consistently better than those at the bottom.

those stats really do highlight the total unadulterated crap coming out of Redknapps mouth for the entire second half of the season. We well and truely blew it last season.

Interesting point though....do those stats prove than Modders really isn't as good a "can opener" as he and others obviously think think he is? (And yes, whilst you ponder this i am aware that our strikers are, shall we say, slightly goal shy!)

I'd also add that a couple of the bottom clubs gave us a right pasting too.......

[Abrak]

those stats really do highlight the total unadulterated crap coming out of Redknapps mouth for the entire second half of the season. We well and truely blew it last season.

Interesting point though....do those stats prove than Modders really isn't as good a "can opener" as he and others obviously think think he is? (And yes, whilst you ponder this i am aware that our strikers are, shall we say, slightly goal shy!)

I'd also add that a couple of the bottom clubs gave us a right pasting too.......

Yes the same was true of Liverpool. Some people said that the bottom 6 were 'better' but they got slaughtered by the top 4.

All I know is that Liverpool had a habit of not turning up to matches. Whether it was due to lack of competition amongst the squad or depth or whatever doesnt really matter. It has been 10 years since a team has won the league and lost 10 points against the bottom 6.

It also shows that there isnt 'that' big a difference. When you ask if this shows whether Modders really opened up other teams, we are talking that Spurs or Liverpool for that matter were perfectly capable against the 'best' opposition but were not 'consistent' 'had enough depth' or whatever to see off the 'worst teams'.

[uptheos]

Manchester United striker Wayne Rooney says Liverpool "will challenge" for the Premier League title in the new season.

Liverpool, who finished sixth last term, have signed midfield trio Jordan Henderson, Charlie Adam and Stewart Downing during the summer.

"They have made some really good signings," said Rooney.

"I am sure they will be fighting harder than they ever have done to be up there. They will think they have a chance of winning the title."

Maybe they inserted some brains into the hair shafts too - it's a sensible statement.

[sharecropper]

Manchester United striker Wayne Rooney says Liverpool "will challenge" for the Premier League title in the new season.

Liverpool, who finished sixth last term, have signed midfield trio Jordan Henderson, Charlie Adam and Stewart Downing during the summer.

"They have made some really good signings," said Rooney.

"I am sure they will be fighting harder than they ever have done to be up there. They will think they have a chance of winning the title."

Maybe they inserted some brains into the hair shafts too - it's a sensible statement.

They'll be challenging for fourth place, not first.

[smokie36]

Manchester United striker Wayne Rooney says Liverpool "will challenge" for the Premier League title in the new season.

Liverpool, who finished sixth last term, have signed midfield trio Jordan Henderson, Charlie Adam and Stewart Downing during the summer.

"They have made some really good signings," said Rooney.

"I am sure they will be fighting harder than they ever have done to be up there. They will think they have a chance of winning the title."

Maybe they inserted some brains into the hair shafts too - it's a sensible statement.

They'll be challenging for fourth place, not first.

Anyone see Rooney's expression as he said this?

Liverpool will improve..no question there but no way good enough to Challenge the top two. The rest of us will fight it out....I still don't see Citeh as genuine challengers yet btw...another year or two perhaps....

[carmine]

Manchester United striker Wayne Rooney says Liverpool "will challenge" for the Premier League title in the new season.

Liverpool, who finished sixth last term, have signed midfield trio Jordan Henderson, Charlie Adam and Stewart Downing during the summer.

"They have made some really good signings," said Rooney.

"I am sure they will be fighting harder than they ever have done to be up there. They will think they have a chance of winning the title."

Maybe they inserted some brains into the hair shafts too - it's a sensible statement.

They'll be challenging for fourth place, not first.

Anyone see Rooney's expression as he said this?

Liverpool will improve..no question there but no way good enough to Challenge the top two. The rest of us will fight it out....I still don't see Citeh as genuine challengers yet btw...another year or two perhaps....

Impossible yet to gauge whats going to happen happen. City will be there and challenging. they'll quite likely have Sergio Aguero upfront too who's rather handy. Liverpool have made good buys but Kenny has to gel them quickly. I reckon alot depends on the performance and fitness of the Suarez/Carroll duo upfront. Utd strong again. Chelsea are a boil on the arse of the premier league and i don't wish to discuss them.

[sharecropper]

From the BBC:

Liverpool may reduce tickets for Manchester United fans

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-14256327

Seems a bit arbitrary to just do it for United fans.

[StevieH]

this is a decent read for reds fans:

An interview with Brian Reade

http://liverpoolfc.w...rian-reade.html

In Issue Eight of Well Red, we spoke to Mirror journalist and lifelong Red Brian Reade about his book, An Epic Swindle: 44 Months With a Pair of Cowboys:

What was your motivation for writing the book?

I was watching everything unfold in that final week – the board meeting in London, the court case, the way it was getting dragged into American courts; and I was getting fed inside information fed to me from people in there. And apart from being angry and depressed about what was happening to Liverpool, I thought this is just fabulous drama – if you looked at it objectively, you could make a film about what happened.

Then of course Liverpool were just four hours away from administration at one point, and I got a call from the fella I did my last book with, 43 years, and he said 'this book has just got to be written, it's an important part of Liverpool's history'. I had a think about it, and I wanted it to be more of a journalistic piece than my last book - I wanted the people on the inside of it to talk to me. The story is of the fans' part in it too - the fabulous way our fans from Spirit of Shankly to the Kop Faithful took the fight to them. The book is dedicated to 'The Noise That Refused To Be Dealt With' – the noise, which is what Hicks said of the fans: 'the noise we are dealing with'.

It was a story with ultimately a happy ending but one which traumatised us. I wanted to get it out quickly because I knew the people needed to talk then. I had to write it in two months.

In your opinion, just how bad was the situation Liverpool were in? There are still some – outsiders mainly – who say Liverpool's position wasn't as bad as fans made out.

I'll put it in perspective. William Gaillard, not our favourite UEFA administrator if you remember the stuff at Athens, told a committee that Liverpool was a classic example of how football has gone wrong and how football was being failed by these two owners.

He pointed out something that hadn't really been pointed out before – in those final weeks, months even, Liverpool was effectively run by two failed banks – the RBS, which had been part nationalised by the British government, and Wachovia, which had been part nationalised by the American government.

The only reason it was saved is because we are Liverpool, because we have this huge brand name across the world – someone was always going to come in and buy it. Had it been a team like Aston Villa or Newcastle, that didn't have that worldwide name and investors could go 'we can make our money here, it's a big club' – it would have gone under because the banks would not have put themselves on the line for it.

The RBS knew it could not let Liverpool fail because it is an iconic brand, an iconic club. Those Americans were not moving until they got their money. Liverpool was effectively saved by the fans and by its history.

With your insight, what would you say the effect was of all this on the pitch at Liverpool?

It had a big effect, the players – the likes of Carra and Gerrard – would never come out and say outright they cost us medals - they'd look like they were making excuses. But they could see in those last three or four transfer windows when Liverpool spent minus; they could see the effect that was having on the team.

Great players were going and every player that went was replaced with a lesser player. Rafa could see that, Rafa couldn't get the money, couldn't buy the players he wanted. But the players could see that clubs like Manchester United, Chelsea and Manchester City were building and they were thinking 'We're not building' – the team was becoming inferior.

They would not say 'they cost me a Premier League medal' but they felt betrayed and let down – these fellas were given promises very early on - Gerrard was very excited about what he heard. I believed it at first because I was so desperate to believe it – we were all in a way stupid, although I don't think we can be blamed for the sale of the club, that's down to Moores and Parry and shareholders.

But we wanted to believe, we were desperate to not let Chelsea and Manchester United get further away from us. When those promises didn't come true, and the markets collapsed and it was clear the Yanks had borrowed the money and they were never going to invest any of their own money and Liverpool was just going to go down – it had a massive effect. Liverpool became a civil war battlefield. It wasn't just about Hicks and Gillett - they were split, the board, between the manager and the chief executive, the players were split, the fans were split and all that negativity, all that politicking, all that briefing, it really split the club. There was a negative atmosphere.

The players won't turn around and say that's what cost us, they know the effect it had on the team, the cumulative drip drip effect crippled the team in that last year and a half. The local lads tortured themselves a bit about whether they should speak out, it's in the book. Pepe said to them you should speak out - in other big clubs in Europe people would have spoken out.

But they were thinking is it the Liverpool Way? Who do I speak to? Does it look like we are making excuses? They went through the mill like the rest of us.

How important were fans to getting Hicks and Gillett out in the end?

They were vital. I know that not just from that last pathetic video from Tom Hicks when he blames 'internet terrorists' but I've got the minutes from one of the last meetings where he says to a prospective buyer 'there is a noise we are dealing with'. But it's not just from Hicks' own words but from a very senior figure at Anfield.

He said to me, 'Believe me the fans, from the Spirit of Shankly to the Kop Faithful, had a big impact. We had people ringing up, potential buyers, asking what was going on, what are the fans doing, how far will they go?'.

The Wall Street Journal phoned Alan Kayll of the Kop Faithful and told him they had crashed an entire system on Wall Street. The fans didn't kick them out, they were kicked out by Martin Broughton and RBS - ultimately by going to court. But the fans blocked a lot of the escape routes for them and they really did help to get them out and that cannot be underestimated.

What do you think of the owners we have at the club now?

Looking back at what I had written in the book, we welcomed them because anyone was going to be better than Hicks and Gillett but we were wary, probably unfairly wary, because they were Americans and we thought all Americans are the same and that's not true. I've got to say I've been impressed – I don't want to go too far because words can come back to haunt you, but you look at what they have done and they have made proper footballing decisions and they have taken their time. They haven't come out and blabbed and been popular – Kenny would have been given a contract after his first win by the other two just because they thought it was keeping the fans happy.

They are here to make money, of course they are, but they know that you can only make money if you get a solid base and build it as a business, as a football club which is successful, and bring the fans with you. If they spend money and they redevelop the stadium, I don't think we can complain, can we? There's no comparison between the two sets of owners – these have come in with a business plan and they want it to succeed first as a football club and then the money they make will follow.

For the other two it was the other way around – as long as that stadium was built, the cash cow was up and running and some arabs came in and paid double what they paid they'd p*ss off and they didn't really care.

What about fan ownership, it's taken a bit of a back seat, but is it something we should still be pushing for?

I definitely think we should push for it. I didn't join Share Liverpool, I thought it was more important to get good owners in. But it's a great ultimate aim that should always be there.

Fan representation on the board, is it a pipe dream? We'll have to see, these are businessmen. It seems a long way away now but you don't know what is around the corner. We need to get more organised, get a rational plan in place and if it did happen, fans could then step in, buy 10 per cent, build it up.

Have clubs lost sight of what they are about? Is it all just big business now?

That's the biggest shame about modern football, it's just become this money-making machine, a hype machine, and at times you hate it. You look at how much people have to pay to go the match, and how few kids are there and it gets you angry. You can say, I've had enough, or like most of us, you can't walk away from the club because you love it so much.

You just hope that we can win the league and we can be the best team in England again and you can overlook some of the inevitable horrors that exist in football.

Football fans are the biggest mugs going, we take so much sh*t and pay so much money, but you notice it more when you're not winning.

There's a feel-good factor now at Liverpool, isn't there?

The whole atmosphere has changed. It wasn't that long ago we were planning sit-ins and marches and we worried. None of the questions were about tactics and the players, it was about PIK rates and loans – we all became financial experts. It was horrible, there were days I hated going to Anfield.

They made us like that – Liverpool was a depressing place to be. Now, it's like going the game 25 years ago. Ok, we're not back winning trophies but the team are going in the right direction, they are playing the right way and people aren't arguing with each other about who should be the manager. To use the modern term, it's a completely different 'matchday experience'.

We've all seen the extracts from the book and there's some wonderfully bizarre revelations about Gillett, thinking Stevie G was gay and so on – can people who buy it expect more of the same?

You'll know the story, but there'll be a lot of detail in there that you didn't know, whether its funny stuff or stuff that gets you angry. There's stuff in there that makes you realise how difficult it was for Rafa to do his job when he's got to deal with this nutter. He was asking how much he had to spend in the summer and Gillett was saying we've got this great new running machine in America, why don't you try it out on the players and you might be able to improve the ones you've got. That's what he was up against.

Just back to modern football, as a fan who has gone to the game for years, is there anything about the game now that you DO like?

Being able to get a drink at half time's not bad! Being honest, I hate Sky Sports and what it has done to football, but sometimes you have to admit that some days you are watching some great games which wasn't always the case years ago.

Those of who were around years ago will now that we were treated like sh*t in many ways – that was one of the major causes of Hillsborough because fans were treated like animals behind cages, we were treated as problems. Ninety six people died to make that better, to make it all seater, even though a lot of people stand up during the games.

They ensured the fans got more respect and although they are ripping more money out of us you have to think about the way we were treated in those old days - Victorian sheds with two toilets for 20,000 people and crush barriers.

We weren't treated like customers, we were treated like bloody scum. I would likeit to be like the old days but only if grounds were a lot safer and fans were treated with respect.

Player of last season?

Good question. There are a few candidates recently but I'm going to give it to Lucas because the lad took so much stick. Suarez has been a revelation but he's only played a few games. Lucas has been outstanding, he's grown, he's silenced all the critics. Particularly under Dalglish you can see he dominates, he moves forward when Gerrard isn't there and you don't miss him as much as we used to – he looks class at times and he's cut some of the mistakes out of his game like giving away too many fouls. He's really blossomed.

What's the aim for next season?

Let's aim for the title, like we always do. We've been on a phenomenal run since January and if we can get the right signings in during the summer, why not? I look above us and I don't see any team that is necessarily going to get better next year. Spending doesn't equate to a team being good, it's about building the club which we are doing at the moment. The main thing is we need to be back in the Champions League.

Edited July 23, 2011 by StevieH