Liverpool F.c.

[scousemouse]

Same old story, looks like will be competing for 4th spot now with Man City, Everton, Villa and Portsmouth. Now were this far behind Rafa will prioritise the Champ League and FA Cup. I think hes going to need a minimum of 4th spot and either the Champ league or FA cup in the trophy cabnet to keep his job this summer.

There shall be no competing with that lot , only winning , or drawing , but not losing .

but that means competing

mai ow

[scousemouse]

TRIPLE INJURY BLOW FOR REDS

Steven Gerrard, Alvaro Arbeloa and Fabio Aurelio have all been ruled out of Sunday's FA Cup third round clash at Luton Town. All three players picked up muscle injuries against Wigan in midweek and are sidelined for the trip to Kenilworth Road.

Manager Rafael Benitez confirmed: "Steven and Alvaro have a calf problem and Fabio has a hamstring injury.

"They are all out of this weekend's game and will work with the physios to be ready for Middlesbrough next Saturday."

[scousemouse]

And I should bloody hope so ! :

RAFA: I WANT MASCH TO STAY

Rafa Benitez has once again reiterated his desire to keep Javier Mascherano at Anfield. The Argentine international has been in scintillating form so far this season with a series of Man of the match performances that has alerted a number of Europe's top clubs.

But Benitez remains determined to keep one of his prized assets at the club.

"We know Juventus and other top sides are interested in him but we have the option," Benitez said. "Javier is happy here and wants to stay. We will do our best to keep him here."

The Reds boss remains keen to bolster his squad during the January transfer window with a defender in his sights. Despite speculation linking him with a move for a left back Benitez insists his top priority is a centre half.

"We are looking for a centre back and not a left back," he added. "We are working hard with the new owners and the Chief Executive to find an option."

Having fallen 12 points behind Arsenal in the Premier League Liverpool take the road to Wembley on Sunday for an FA Cup third round trip at League One side Luton Town.

Despite recent comments in the press from certain people undermining the competition, the Reds boss insists it is an important trophy he would love to win again.

"For me, our supporters and my players it is really important to win every trophy, especially the FA Cup," added Rafa. "It is a fantastic competition and everybody around the world can see how great it is.

"We want to win it. I don't think about what other people say and we want to win this trophy."

The trip to Kenilworth Road brings back great memories for Benitez. A 5-3 win in the third round tie back in January 2005 ended up with Steven Gerrard lifting the famous trophy at Cardiff's Millennium Stadium. It was also a match remembered for a stunning goal from Xabi Alonso when he found the net with a shot from deep inside his own half.

"It was a very exciting game and I remember Xabi Alonso's fantastic goal. We are looking forward to the game and it will be good for a team like Luton to play Liverpool."

[scousemouse]

not good reading :

LIVERPOOL 1-1 WIGAN

LFC 1-1 WIGAN: THE VERDICT

Liverpool got 2008 off to a disappointing start with a home draw against Wigan. Here's the pick of the post-match reaction.

The local paper

In what must have been one of the shortest lived New Year's resolutions in history, Liverpool's commitment to add a ruthless streak to their game was found wanting just two days into January. Liverpool dominated possession, chances came and went and their overwhelming superiority was not reflected in the final scoreline. Wigan can now add their name to a list which includes Manchester City, Birmingham, Chelsea and Blackburn - all teams who have been distinctly second best in meetings with Liverpool this season and all teams who escaped without defeat.

The Echo

The player

No disrespect to Wigan but if you want to challenge for the title then you need to be winning games like this. When you get that first goal you think you will go on from there but we didn't do that and they came back into the game. After Titus Bramble scored we had one or two chances but we didn't really look like we were going to score and overall it is disappointing.

Steve Finnan

The fan

We need more players of quality in our team. It has never been more obvious. Gerrard and Torres are our only regular match winners. If you look at Chelsea, they have match winners all over the pitch: Lampard, Drogba, Ballack, Joe Cole, Shevchenko, Terry, Kalou. Same with Man Utd: Rooney, Tevez, Ronaldo, Anderson.

Hoogle, LFC.TV message boards

The boss

You have to try to play one game at a time if you can, because if you think about the gap you will play with more pressure. We need to play well, create chances and score goals, then see every week what the situation is. For sure it's more difficult now, especially when you know you are creating chances in all of the games but cannot score that second goal and kill the game. I can say a lot of things but at the end of the day you need to win if you are to reduce the gap. It's not time for talking, it's time to play well, score goals and win games.

Rafa Benitez

The fan

We were unfortunate at times. Then Wigan chipped a ball in the area and got the rebound - rebounds are something we fail to capitalise on in either 18-yard box. Tonight, we just lacked quality in the final third.

GibraltarRed82, LFC.TV message boards

The former player

It was a very disappointing and frustrating night for Liverpool. For me it was a game we needed to win and it is going to be very difficult now to get back into the title race because I can't see the likes of Arsenal and Manchester United dropping too many points. The move that led to Fernando Torres' goal was fantastic and we should have built on that. Unfortunately, we couldn't get the second goal and we gave the ball away too much. We still have to keep believing we can challenge for the league but we need to start a consistent run of winning games. Alan Kennedy

[spot]

http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,,2236238,00.html

[spot]

I think the first half was the worst I've ever seen us play. Not one player could pass or control the ball. The team looks like it's lost all confidence, and nobody looked happy or interested. Improved a bit in the second half, but still not good enough.

The owners and Parry must take some of the blame. Everyday in the press there is a story about Rafa going, either now or the end of the season. How can he and the team concentrate on football with all the constant speculation? These clueless owners have proved to be a nightmare. They can't even sort out the money for the new stadium.

Apart from the speculation about Rafa, there is more and more stuff coming out about a possible second takeover. This one would be worse. If they took over would we have to sell Benayoun? Israeli's are not allowed into Dubai, and Benayoun was left out of a West Ham training session there... http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,,1751257,00.html

I'm personally dead against a takeover by DIC.

The Observer 13/01/08

Liverpool FC could change hands for the second time in a year as their American owners encounter difficulties in refinancing £350million of debt incurred in taking over and running the club.

Beset by the steeply rising costs of a new stadium and manager Rafa Benitez's demands for new players, Tom Hicks and George Gillett Jr have been attempting to transfer the debt, for which they are personally liable, on to the club itself. City sources believe this is an extremely difficult task to complete before the loan's due date at the end of February.

It is possible that the Americans will meet the deadline, but if not an Arab investment group, Dubai International Capital, is understood to be close to lodging an offer to buy out the American pair, probably for about £500m. Takeover discussions are thought to be due before the end of this month.

If successful, DIC, led by Liverpool supporter Sameer Al Ansari, would invest heavily in two areas: the new stadium that Liverpool need if they are to compete with Arsenal and Manchester United for matchday revenue, and an improved playing squad. Were they also to acquire a new management team Jose Mourinho, who is known to be interested in managing Liverpool, would be a prime candidate.

DIC were extremely close to buying Liverpool last February, only to lose out to Hicks and Gillett when the club's chief executive, Rick Parry, switched his support from the Arab camp to the American. The latter paid £174.1m for a 100 per cent shareholding, also agreeing to take on the club's then debt of £44.8m.

The purchase, however, was funded solely with borrowed money, Hicks and Gillett's loan from the Royal Bank of Scotland swelling to £350m as it was used to fund several high-profile summer transfers, development work and architect's plans for a 60,000-seat stadium in Stanley Park, and to roll up the interest on the debt.

The RBS loan is due for repayment next month. The Observer understands that attempts to restructure it have so far failed and the Americans have yet to inject new equity into the refinancing.

While RBS have asked Hicks and Gillett to each commit £20m of their own cash to the deal, City sources believe that at least one of the pair is not prepared to do so. Hicks and Gillett declined to comment last night.

Meanwhile, work on 'New Anfield' has been held up by the impasse over the acquisition loan, with no chance of funding being put in place for the £400m stadium project until the issue is resolved. A meeting in New York last week at which architects HKS and AFL presented competing stadium designs, was described by Parry merely as 'another big step forward to finding the best possible solution. Everyone is reflecting on what they have heard and a clear decision will be taken soon'.

The global credit crunch has made it harder for Hicks and Gillett to raise new revenues elsewhere and also affected the value of their other assets. Should they fail in their efforts to repay the £350m acquisition debt on Liverpool when it comes due in just over six weeks, there would be the possibility of the next owner of the club becoming RBS.

The bank, however, are extremelyunlikely to allow the situation to develop that way. Nor are Parry and club honorary life-president David Moores, the former principal shareholder. Parry and Moores are horrified that the Hicks-Gillett deal has not thus far brought long-term financial stability to the club. As a consequence, there are increasing tensions between the Americans and other board members as the refinancing deadline approaches. Parry and Moores are understood to be open to a second takeover.

Sources in the Middle East have confirmed that DIC remain as keenly interested in buying Liverpool as they were one year ago. DIC last night refused to comment on the matter, but they appear best placed to resolve the financial problems affecting the club's competitiveness in the Premier League. A mooted valuation of £1billion has been ridiculed, but an enterprise value of around half that figure might prove acceptable, allowing the Americans to exit with a profit of £75m each.

[Jimjim]

Personally I've not been impressed with the new owners and would welcome a takeover.

As for Benayoun, I think Israelis are not allowed into UAE, the country of which Dubai is a part, and I would bet the new owners, being from Dubai, are much more open-minded in these areas. I doubt they'd get rid of him because he's Israeli.

[mrbojangles]

Where's Scousemouse disappeared too ?

[mrtoad]

Where's Scousemouse disappeared too ?

He's at Anfield discussing terms for the managers job.

[mrbojangles]

Where's Scousemouse disappeared too ?

He's at Anfield discussing terms for the managers job.

More like hanging out with Joey Barton

[Jockstar]

Moving house.

[scousemouse]

Hi lads ,

the reason I've been off for a while is I've just recentley become LOS newest house owner and the competent staff at both TOT and true have told me I have to wait for up to 2 MONTHS before I can get a phone line installed as we are the first to move in on our soi and they have to wait till they get more people applying ( <deleted> !!! ).

I've tried having a few ferrang moments but to no avail as they dont work over the phone so my next step is to try a bit of corruption and see how I get on . I'll probably stick a post on general and see if anyone has some good advice.

My head as been up my arse with the furnishing and decorating and the missus' awful taste in just about everything ( narrak is not nice ).

On the brightside , this internet cafe I'm in right now is not to bad as it serves Leo .

Cheers lads

[mrbojangles]

Nice one Scouse.

Can you wait a couple of months for the house warming

the missus' awful taste in just about everything ( narrak is not nice ).

I know what you mean, MrsBoJ has shall we say, different tatses to me also

[spot]

This is not the first time that Taggart has stood up for a bit of decency in football. I know I'm supposed to hate the man, but I just can't argue with what he says here.

Hopefully soon we can get back to purely football news and get this mess behind us. And...I can get back to hating Fergie

Liverpool owners lack class says Ferguson

United manager attacks treatment of Benítez and says Anfield side no longer in contention for league title

Daniel Taylor in Riyadh

Thursday January 24, 2008

The Guardian

Liverpool fans protest against the club's American owners. Photograph: Paul Ellis/AFP

Sir Alex Ferguson has entered the debate about Rafael Benítez's increasingly precarious position at Liverpool by accusing the club's owners George Gillett and Tom Hicks of lacking "class". The Manchester United manager said for the first time that he believes Liverpool are out of the title race and he questioned whether they would ever be regarded as serious challengers while there were so many political problems behind the scenes at Anfield.

Article continues

Ferguson believes Gillett and Hicks are to blame and, referring to "a closely knit and well-run club 20 years ago", he highlighted the manner in which the two Americans had admitted talking to Jürgen Klinsmann about replacing Benítez. "That was a bad piece of business on Liverpool's part, there's no doubt about that," he said. "At big clubs it's paramount that the board shows its class. That sort of thing can be very upsetting for a manager."

Ferguson made it clear he had sympathy for the Spaniard and he likened Liverpool's pursuit of Klinsmann to the revelation earlier this season that Tottenham Hotspur had offered Juande Ramos the manager's job while Martin Jol was still in charge. "As a manager there are a lot of moments in every week when you feel very much on your own," he said.

"People don't want to knock on your door because they think you're busy all the time when the truth is you can be sitting there twiddling your thumbs. You can fill your time by phoning other managers but there are a lot of hours spent on your own and, in moments like that, Rafa must feel very alone right now. The thing in his favour is that Rafa seems quite a stubborn character who can put aside emotion whereas Martin seemed to be more affected when it happened to him."

United return from their trip to Saudi Arabia today and Ferguson is convinced that Liverpool, 14 points off the top, no longer pose a credible challenge for the title. "They will concentrate on trying to win the European Cup rather than the league," he said. "I say that because there are three clubs ahead of them [discounting Everton] rather than just one. If it was just one club they were chasing, you couldn't write them off but it is very difficult to think that three teams could drop that number of points and be caught."

He also suspects that Benítez might have missed out on players during the transfer window because of the uncertainty surrounding the club. "The important thing in all of this is that the big clubs should be seen to be acting like big clubs," he said. "Most players would want to play for Liverpool but when they see a club that they think is topsy-turvy, with a divide between the manager and the directors, they might think twice. When the choice comes, they want to join a stable club.

"One thing for sure is that Rafa has brought in a lot of his players because of his Spanish connections. If, for example, an English manager was then to come into Liverpool, that connection would suddenly be gone." The tension at Anfield has led to mass protests in support of Benítez from the club's fans, reminiscent in some ways to the campaign against the Glazers that has been orchestrated by United's followers. The difference is that Ferguson seems happy under the regime at Old Trafford, where he is allowed the kind of power that is denied Benítez.

"I've been very fortunate because I have had good directors - people like Bobby Charlton and Martin Edwards - who always supported me very well," Ferguson said of his 21 years at Old Trafford. "There have been times when we have had to budget but, on the whole, I have never been refused money and I have more or less got any player I wanted. Arsène Wenger has always had great support at Arsenal as well. So there's unity there. And that's right. You should allow a manager to get on with his job."

[Jimjim]

Don't like the terminology as a "Yank," but I'd have to agree with Liverpool supporters and say "Yanks Out!"

[kopite]

Don't like the terminology as a "Yank," but I'd have to agree with Liverpool supporters and say "Yanks Out!"

WE WANT DIC

WE WANT DIC

WE WANT DIC

sounds like a few girls i know

[spot]

Liverpool fans threaten American owners with financial boycott

Andy Hunter

Thursday January 24, 2008

The Guardian

Liverpool fans are prepared to turn their protests against Tom Hicks and George Gillett into a financial boycott of the club should the Americans remain in control at Anfield, a survey of 2,000 disillusioned supporters has found.

The Liverpool Supporters Network, a coalition of fanzines and leading websites, polled members this week in response to the uncertainty surrounding the ownership of the club and of the manager, Rafael Benítez, following Hicks' revelations that he and Gillett approached Jürgen Klinsmann about the Spaniard's job.

Unsurprisingly 99% backed Benítez over the co-chairmen when asked who had the best interests of the club at heart and 98% said they did not trust Gillett and Hicks after they reneged on their promise not to burden Liverpool with debt similar to the Glazer family's takeover of Manchester United.

That may become a reality today, however, with the Americans hoping to announce a £350m loan with the Royal Bank of Scotland and the US bank Wachovia that would refinance their initial takeover and strengthen their control on the club in the short term at least. They will then be in a position to unveil their revised stadium proposals.

Liverpool are facing £30m annual interest repayments should the Americans refinance and continue to resist offers to sell from Dubai International Capital, and supporters intend to exert their own financial pressures should Gillett and Hicks stay. The survey found 76% were willing to withdraw their financial commitment to the club in the form of match tickets, merchandising or subscriptions to the official Liverpool website. The Supporters Network will also propose extending the boycott to include club sponsors Carlsberg, the kit suppliers Adidas and even the RBS should the loan go through.

A spokesperson for the network, Neil Atkinson, said: "The results of this survey are indicative of the strength of feeling among Liverpool fans that the club is very much in the wrong hands at present. Tom Hicks and George Gillett are not trusted by Liverpool supporters and that three-quarters of fans would consider withdrawing their financial support of the club should the present owners remain in charge demonstrates how committed Liverpool fans are to seeing the club removed from the control of the present owners."

[Jockstar]

Liverpool refinancing nears completion - reports

LONDON, Jan 24 (Reuters) - Liverpool's American owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett are expected to announce within the next few days that they have successfully negotiated a refinancing deal for the club, British media reported on Thursday.

Hicks and Gillett, who bought the club 11 months ago for £220.0million, have been organising the £350million deal with banks.

The agreement will allow them to refinance their original deal, repay loans taken out to buy players last year and to commence work on a new stadium.

Details of a the design for the new stadium are also expected to be revealed when the deal is officially announced.

While the Americans were negotiating with the banks, there was also widespread speculation that Dubai Investment Capital, the investment arm of the Dubai government, outbid when Hicks and Gillett bought the club last year, were considering a renewed bid.

Liverpool fans expressed their anger at Hicks and Gillett at Monday's Premier League match with Aston Villa with banners protesting about their involvement.

Hicks angered Liverpool's fans last week and undermined manager Rafa Benitez when he said the club had spoken to former Germany coach Juergen Klinsmann about possibly taking over as coach.

In a statement issued on Sunday Hicks said he remained "fully committed" in his role as co-owner.

He also denied he has been involved in discussions with DIC about a potential bid of up to £500million.

Hicks said in a statement: "I have not received any offer to purchase the club from the DIC or anyone else, much less accepted any such offer."

If Hicks and Gillett were to sell the club for £350million now, city analysts estimate they would each make about £30million profit from the deal.

The situation also turns some of the spotlight on to Spanish manager Benitez, who has taken the club to two Champions League finals, winning one of them.

His relationship with the American owners was strained at the end of last year over transfer policy but has since eased.

[mrtoad]

Tough game today. Havavnt are a very good team though.......................................

in the sixth tier.

[mrtoad]

Whatever score this finishes, Havant have done themselves proud today, and really caused a few problems for Liverpool at times.

[spot]

Tough game today. Havavnt are a very good team though.......................................

in the sixth tier.

Sounded like you were enjoying that Mr Toad...

[spot]

Whatever score this finishes, Havant have done themselves proud today, and really caused a few problems for Liverpool at times.

Agreed.

[mrbojangles]

Whatever score this finishes, Havant have done themselves proud today, and really caused a few problems for Liverpool at times.

Agreed.

Seconded

[kopite]

their songs at the end of the game were boss.

good lads

[mrtoad]

their songs at the end of the game were boss.

good lads

Was a great advert for the game. Top stuff all round.

[chavy]

Don't like the terminology as a "Yank," but I'd have to agree with Liverpool supporters and say "Yanks Out!"

WE WANT DIC

WE WANT DIC

WE WANT DIC

sounds like a few girls i know

Plus a few other dodgy looking "girls" I saw yesterday.....deep voices always make me edgy !!!

Hats off to Havant for their display against that lot, to a man there wasn't 60K a week difference

[kopite]

getting worse and worse as the games go by. shocking.

the players just arent doing it.

not sure how true this is, but apparently carra went for gerrard in the changing room before the game had even kicked off.

rafa and another player had to pull them apart

[spot]

Too many missed chances again....

Badly need a win to get the confidence up again.

Fans buying the club? I'll go for that!

Liverpool fans may bid to buy club - BBC

LONDON, Jan 31 (Reuters) - Liverpool fans are to launch a plan to buy out American owners George Gillett and Tom Hicks amid growing concerns over the running of the club, the BBC reported on Thursday.

The Share Liverpool FC Group is hoping to get 100,000 fans of the club from around the world to raise 500 million pounds ($993.4 million) in a "Barcelona style" member share scheme.

Tycoons Gillett and Hicks bought the club last year but poor results on the pitch, doubts over the financing of the proposed new stadium and the uncertain future of manager Rafael Benitez have cast a cloud over the season.

One of the main people involved in the proposed fans' buy-out, football business lecturer and Liverpool fan Rogan Taylor, said it was about time clubs were controlled by fans as they often are in Spain and Germany.

"The time is right to offer a different solution to the rising concerns that football fans have about the patterns of ownership developing at our major football clubs," Taylor, who is director of the Football Industry Group at the University of Liverpool, told the BBC.

"Thousands of Liverpool fans have already demonstrated their dissatisfaction with the current state of affairs.

"Large amounts of debt often devolves onto clubs newly purchased, but the fans know that in the end, it will be they themselves who will have to pay it off through increased ticket prices and other schemes."

Hicks and Gillett completed a 350 million pounds re-financing deal last Friday and said they had no plans to sell the club to Dubai International Capital (DIC).

"That was never a serious possibility and certainly isn't today. I can't think of a price that I would think of having any interest in selling at all," Hicks, who also owns NHL team the Dallas Stars and the Texas Rangers baseball club, said last week.

"There is no question in my mind that I will still be an owner of Liverpool Football Club in five years." (Reporting by Martyn Herman, editing by Ed Osmond)

[spot]

SHARE LIVERPOOL FC PLANS UNVEILED

Thursday, 31st January 2008 (18:30)

by Anfield Online

At 5pm this evening a unique plan to try and take control of Liverpool FC by the fans was launched. Within 10 minutes the website had crashed due to massive interest worldwide.

Below is some of the text taken from the site before it crashed.

Why should Liverpool Football Club become a source of profit for anyone?

We propose a model of ownership similar to that at Barcelona. This club is owned by their ‘members’. Over 100,000 fans have bought single ‘member’ shares, which entitle them to elect a Board who will run the club until the next election. At Barcelona it is once every four years.

That way, no one can ever buy the club. Its structure makes its sale to the next sporting conglomerate that fancies a Premier League football club a legal impossibility.

The shares can never be sold; the club can never be sold.

Lets stop Liverpool Football Club becoming a trinket any rich man might like to wear around his neck. This club is close to the hearts of millions of people all over the world.

How much will it cost?

We estimate that a sum of £5,000 each will be enough. We need 100,000 members. 100,000 x £5,000 = £500 million

That should buy the club and go a long way towards building a new stadium.

How does it work?

No one can own more than one ‘member share’ and, apart from the initial purchase, these ‘member shares’ cannot normally be sold on. If you buy a ‘member’ share: No one will ever own more of Liverpool FC than you do, and you will be able to take part in any election to decide who runs Liverpool FC.

It’s one member, one vote. It’s democratic, it’s fair, and it protects Liverpool FC from becoming the target of corporate buyers ever again.

What more could you ever do for your club?

- Secure ownership in law

- Debt free

- Real involvement

Sounds good, what do I do now?

If you want to be a part of this, and are interested in hearing more, simply use the ‘Your feedback’ link at the bottom of the page, or click ‘Count me in!’ above to add your name to the list. Once we get an idea of the scale of interest in this idea, we’ll know whether it’s a real possibility. If you want to be a part of the ongoing history of Liverpool FC, now’s your chance.

FAQs

Isn’t this a pipe dream? You’ve no chance have you?

It’s no pipe dream; its do-able. Liverpool Football Club has millions of fans across the world. Most of them will have been worrying about what has been happening to our Club lately. And they’ll be realising that life as a Liverpool fan could get much more expensive. There may be no plans yet, but ticket prices may have to be steeply hyped in years to come to help repay debts. We’ve seen what’s happened already to season ticket holders at Man Utd. You have to commit IN ADVANCE to buy all home Cup games – without even knowing how many games that will be! It includes all League cup; FA and Champs League home games…. Say ten in total on average. That’s an extra £400 - £500 to add to the price of your season ticket at Old Trafford.

What will happen at Liverpool FC when the debts bite (and we have seen more and more debt secured on the Club’s equity)? There is around £180m of debt secured in Kop Holdings Ltd. and no answer to the question: Who will repay it when it falls due in a few years time?

Our guess is that fans will bare the brunt in the end, not just in Liverpool but all round the world as the Club ‘sweats’ every asset. So instead of us paying off the millionaire owners’ debts, why don’t we just buy it ourselves instead? Why would anyone want to pay off someone else’s debts?

Are you really going to get 100,000 people to sign up in this short a space of time?

We took nearly 50,000 fans to Istanbul – Athens too. In reality, it cost most of us between £1,000 and £2,000 to make the trip; more if we took our partners & kids along. Liverpool fans have always turned out when the Club needed them. They find the money somehow, even at short notice. And remember, there are literally millions of us round the world who really care about LFC.

Yes, but £5,000 is a lot of money. Won’t many Liverpool fans be effectively priced out of something they’d love to take part in?

Take your point. We don’t want to see any Liverpool fan excluded. We will seek to provide opportunities for groups of fans to purchase one ‘member share’ (carrying one vote) between them, providing they can nominate one individual to represent them.

Why shouldn’t I just wait and see what happens, without putting up any money?

You could miss out badly. The list will close. Also we will propose giving the first 20,000 people to respond special staus and possibly enhanced advantages for ticket purchase. Those who commit first deserve some reward for their enthusiasm.

Modern sports clubs can’t be run like this, can they?

Why not? Many people know that Barcelona and Real Madrid are owned by their fans. So are German clubs, apart from Bayer Leverkusen. In fact, teams owned by their fans like this have won the European Cup 6 times since it became the Champions League in 1992. Even in USA, the NFL Green Bay Packers are run by a not-for-profit company; they’ve won the Superbowl 3 times despite having by far the smallest population of any NFL team.

That’s fine, but in Britain, especially if you need a new stadium, you need a sugar-daddy. That’s the reality, isn’t it?

No. Look at Arsenal. They’ve no sugar-daddy. The club costed up its plans, secured loans and convinced people to lend to them at a fixed-rate. The Banks trust the club’s finances will be well-run and that fans will continue to watch the club. If we could show how much fans of this club care, and how they’re prepared to back their faith with hard cash, then everything changes.

We don’t need a sugar daddy – we ARE the sugar daddy - because most of the money comes from us in the end anyway.

How do we get investment in the future or cash to buy players?

If we have a well run, debt free Club to start with, there will be money to buy players (how much do you think is spent servicing the Club’s debts?). Also the elected Board may wish to raise money (as any business must sometimes). At Barca, very rich individuals stand for election with promises of further investment. But it doesn’t mean they ‘own’ any part of Club.

But surely this way of running things ‘mutually’ belongs to the past?

The Co-operative group, with shops, a bank, insurance and undertakers is run like this. It’s got a turnover of £8 billion a year, and buries 1 in 4 of us! It is also the biggest farmer in the country and the biggest retail co-operative in the world. It‘s owned by over 2 million customers, all owning one share.

What if we don’t get the £500m?

Lets say we only get £100m – the equivalent of 20,000 fans signing up. At that point we would ask the 20,000 ‘members’ what they want to do. Some of us might want – as a group (Fans’ Trust) - to buy a significant portion of the club’s shares. Certainly, at that point, any individual member who wanted the money returned would be entitled to it.

Can I sell my share later on? What if I need the money back in a rush?

The simple answer to the first question is no. There will be no ordinary ‘trading’ in individual shares – no profit can be made from selling them - (otherwise the Club would be permanently ‘up for sale’ – just like Man Utd was). However, if a member can find someone who does not already own a member share, then a transfer

at the original price may be arranged through the elected Board.

Nobody will be asked to part with a penny until a detailed Constitution is presented in which all necessary details are made plain.

How do we know we’ve hit the target?

We will have a partner Bank where the monies will be kept until we reach the target. We will ask the two Bishops of Liverpool to act as verifiers for us – they’ll see the bank accounts, have access to all the books and be able to speak to the bank to certify that it’s all there. We will also ask the Liverpool City Council Treasurer to act as a scrutineer.

So, if we don’t make the targets and we all take our money back, what about the interest the money has earned?

We’ll donate it to a Charity of your choice, less any deductions for verifiable expenses incurred in running the ‘Share Liverpool FC’ operation (website server charges; legal costs to draw up a Constitution etc.).

What will we get to vote on?

Members will elect the Board of Directors for Liverpool FC, for a term to be decided by you. (Barcelona elect their President every four years.) After an Election, just like the Government, the Board will have executive control of the Club, but they may want an elected ‘Fans’ Council’ to advise them. The Board will know that – in a few years time - they will be judged on their performance by the owners – YOU.

Will we get a vote on the team or the manager?

No. The elected Board has responsibility for running the Club and will employ professional administrators and managers to deliver the targets it sets.

Will members be guaranteed a ticket if they want one?

With 100,000 members? You’re kidding!

Has anyone ever done this in UK before?

No, though there have been many formations of ‘Fan Trusts’ at professional clubs in the past decade– and three Football League Clubs are run by a majority shareholder Fans’ Trusts. Liverpool would be the pioneers in completing a ‘members’ buy-out.

What we propose would probably starta ‘revolution’ in Club ownership structures in UK. But then, Liverpool fans have often been at the vanguard of changing the culture of football.

We have a question to ask you!

We want this to be a genuine fans’ initiative and we know something about the costs of professional advice. Are you in a senior position in banking; accountancy; corporate finance etc. ?

Please contact us using the form below if you think you could provide voluntary assistance to this project.

Legal

If we go ahead with this, it has to be done properly and we will rely on Cobbetts and our other advisers to guide us towards a structure which is legally sound. This will mean detailed work in putting together a proposition and a constitutional framework which is clear and robust so that anyone who becomes a member will know exactly what is involved. At this stage, before this work is done, we confine ourselves to setting out in broad terms what we want to achieve.

In legal terms, Liverpool Football Club would have an ownership structure similar to that of Barcelona and to co-operatives in the UK and would be run on the principles used in modern mutuals.

The key principles are:

- That membership and elections work on a ‘one member, one vote’ basis

- That powers and responsibilities are divided in a clear and effective way between elected representatives and skilled and experienced executives.

- That elected representatives do not manage the club or pick the team, but ensure it is run properly and efficiently

- That the organisation plays a constructive role in the community

Furthermore

There will be predator protection to stop the mutual being taken over or dismantled, and at the start, members will be asked to approve a transitional board for the new mutual LFC on joining, and the first election of a Board will be held within the first year.

“The Barcelona model, to me, is how a football club should be run. They are one of the most pre-eminent names in world football, yet the club is owned by its supporters on a one-member, one-vote basis and they control it. That strengthens it because it’s never subject to the whim of one person; it’s a collective endeavour. English football should see that as a big strength. I’d love to see if we could grow the Barcelona model here.” (Andy Burnham, Secretary of State for Culture, Media & Sport)

[kopite]

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=209334.0

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=209415.0

and so it begins

smoke em out