Liverpool F.c.

[StevieH]

i'd done by by what is a hopeless ref look at the way Spurs were treated at Stamford Bridge last season and then you really can feel hard done by.

Poor referring is very much part of the battle and another reason why ferguson is still by far the best manager.

i'd argue that most refereeing is excellent. they generally do fantastic jobs in difficult circumstances and get about what, 95% of their calls correct? which is why it's so galling when they make such blatant errors like bloody dowd did against sunderland on the opening day of the season.

ferguson's spent years perfecting the dark art of putting pressure on referees through his press comments and it probably scores united about six points a season. wouldn't give the evil old cun_t any credit for that.

[carmine]

i'd done by by what is a hopeless ref look at the way Spurs were treated at Stamford Bridge last season and then you really can feel hard done by.

Poor referring is very much part of the battle and another reason why ferguson is still by far the best manager.

i'd argue that most refereeing is excellent. they generally do fantastic jobs in difficult circumstances and get about what, 95% of their calls correct? which is why it's so galling when they make such blatant errors like bloody dowd did against sunderland on the opening day of the season.

ferguson's spent years perfecting the dark art of putting pressure on referees through his press comments and it probably scores united about six points a season. wouldn't give the evil old cun_t any credit for that.

Actually, i'm going to retract part of what i said, and put a point forward that i know historically we'll disagree on.

They do, under the circumstances do a decent job but they MUST have video/fourth official help. Whether you still disagree with this i don't know but i reckon you probaly do. But i'm afraid it has to happen.

It will also negate much of the Ferguson/Mourinho mind games. i also would'nt like to be viewed as giving red Nose credit. Its just a ase of being the way it is. i actually think he comes across as being a thoroughly nasty, vindictive, uncouth, bully. A just because he has a Sir infront of his name does'nt make him a better person.

[StevieH]

i'd done by by what is a hopeless ref look at the way Spurs were treated at Stamford Bridge last season and then you really can feel hard done by.

Poor referring is very much part of the battle and another reason why ferguson is still by far the best manager.

i'd argue that most refereeing is excellent. they generally do fantastic jobs in difficult circumstances and get about what, 95% of their calls correct? which is why it's so galling when they make such blatant errors like bloody dowd did against sunderland on the opening day of the season.

ferguson's spent years perfecting the dark art of putting pressure on referees through his press comments and it probably scores united about six points a season. wouldn't give the evil old cun_t any credit for that.

Actually, i'm going to retract part of what i said, and put a point forward that i know historically we'll disagree on.

They do, under the circumstances do a decent job but they MUST have video/fourth official help. Whether you still disagree with this i don't know but i reckon you probaly do. But i'm afraid it has to happen.

It will also negate much of the Ferguson/Mourinho mind games. i also would'nt like to be viewed as giving red Nose credit. Its just a ase of being the way it is. i actually think he comes across as being a thoroughly nasty, vindictive, uncouth, bully. A just because he has a Sir infront of his name does'nt make him a better person.

i don't entirely disagree on the technology front any more mate, i've come around to thinking that for 'did-the-ball-crossed-the-goalline?' incidents it should be used. but not for anything else. not during the course of a match anyway.

he is a bully, that's precisely the right word to describe him. and that he has a 'sir' in front of his name is down to that crass, lying arsehol_e tony blair and his chief henchman alastair campbell. purely populist decision on the back of the '99 european cup final. pretty pathetic really. would have thought a former govan shipyard worker would have told them where to shove it.

[carmine]

i'd done by by what is a hopeless ref look at the way Spurs were treated at Stamford Bridge last season and then you really can feel hard done by.

Poor referring is very much part of the battle and another reason why ferguson is still by far the best manager.

i'd argue that most refereeing is excellent. they generally do fantastic jobs in difficult circumstances and get about what, 95% of their calls correct? which is why it's so galling when they make such blatant errors like bloody dowd did against sunderland on the opening day of the season.

ferguson's spent years perfecting the dark art of putting pressure on referees through his press comments and it probably scores united about six points a season. wouldn't give the evil old cun_t any credit for that.

Actually, i'm going to retract part of what i said, and put a point forward that i know historically we'll disagree on.

They do, under the circumstances do a decent job but they MUST have video/fourth official help. Whether you still disagree with this i don't know but i reckon you probaly do. But i'm afraid it has to happen.

It will also negate much of the Ferguson/Mourinho mind games. i also would'nt like to be viewed as giving red Nose credit. Its just a ase of being the way it is. i actually think he comes across as being a thoroughly nasty, vindictive, uncouth, bully. A just because he has a Sir infront of his name does'nt make him a better person.

i don't entirely disagree on the technology front any more mate, i've come around to thinking that for 'did-the-ball-crossed-the-goalline?' incidents it should be used. but not for anything else. not during the course of a match anyway.

he is a bully, that's precisely the right word to describe him. and that he has a 'sir' in front of his name is down to that crass, lying arsehol_e tony blair and his chief henchman alastair campbell. purely populist decision on the back of the '99 european cup final. pretty pathetic really. would have thought a former govan shipyard worker would have told them where to shove it.

Either way its very much a tread carefully situation and starting with 'cross the line or not" would be fine. Maybe that would be enough just by taking the biggest pressure of the official and certainly reduce the firepower from the media. I still have'nt quite made up my mind about offside rulings. Regardless it should stop there.

I'm not looking for 100% perfection but purely helping the referee to do a better job.

[StevieH]

Either way its very much a tread carefully situation and starting with 'cross the line or not" would be fine. Maybe that would be enough just by taking the biggest pressure of the official and certainly reduce the firepower from the media. I still have'nt quite made up my mind about offside rulings. Regardless it should stop there.

I'm not looking for 100% perfection but purely helping the referee to do a better job.

if there's something which can make the referee's life easier while not directly taking responsibility away from him and/or overly affecting the match then it's worth consideration.

first thing i'd start with is a ban on managers and players talking about referees in post-match interviews. and i'd ban the media from asking about them too.

[alfieconn]

i'd argue that most refereeing is excellent. they generally do fantastic jobs in difficult circumstances and get about what, 95% of their calls correct? which is why it's so galling when they make such blatant errors like bloody dowd did against sunderland on the opening day of the season.

ferguson's spent years perfecting the dark art of putting pressure on referees through his press comments and it probably scores united about six points a season. wouldn't give the evil old cun_t any credit for that.

Actually, i'm going to retract part of what i said, and put a point forward that i know historically we'll disagree on.

They do, under the circumstances do a decent job but they MUST have video/fourth official help. Whether you still disagree with this i don't know but i reckon you probaly do. But i'm afraid it has to happen.

It will also negate much of the Ferguson/Mourinho mind games. i also would'nt like to be viewed as giving red Nose credit. Its just a ase of being the way it is. i actually think he comes across as being a thoroughly nasty, vindictive, uncouth, bully. A just because he has a Sir infront of his name does'nt make him a better person.

i don't entirely disagree on the technology front any more mate, i've come around to thinking that for 'did-the-ball-crossed-the-goalline?' incidents it should be used. but not for anything else. not during the course of a match anyway.

he is a bully, that's precisely the right word to describe him. and that he has a 'sir' in front of his name is down to that crass, lying arsehol_e tony blair and his chief henchman alastair campbell. purely populist decision on the back of the '99 european cup final. pretty pathetic really. would have thought a former govan shipyard worker would have told them where to shove it.

Either way its very much a tread carefully situation and starting with 'cross the line or not" would be fine. Maybe that would be enough just by taking the biggest pressure of the official and certainly reduce the firepower from the media. I still have'nt quite made up my mind about offside rulings. Regardless it should stop there.

I'm not looking for 100% perfection but purely helping the referee to do a better job.

A lot of people are against it because they say it would cause too many stoppages, but a fella talking about it on tv the other day said that on contentious issues there was a stop in play at the same time 56% of the time.

Anyway why not have like the tennis where a team is allowed 3 appeals on result changing decisions

[carmine]

Either way its very much a tread carefully situation and starting with 'cross the line or not" would be fine. Maybe that would be enough just by taking the biggest pressure of the official and certainly reduce the firepower from the media. I still have'nt quite made up my mind about offside rulings. Regardless it should stop there.

I'm not looking for 100% perfection but purely helping the referee to do a better job.

if there's something which can make the referee's life easier while not directly taking responsibility away from him and/or overly affecting the match then it's worth consideration.

first thing i'd start with is a ban on managers and players talking about referees in post-match interviews. and i'd ban the media from asking about them too.

Yes i agree. I would say you really dont need to look a lot further than rugby union to see due respect and courtesty that should be given to referees and officials. I know many Utd supporters that are even smug about the power Ferguson wields over refs and linesmen, but i really don't think the sport benefits in anyway. Pressurising the referee to make an incorrect decision in your favour is also the lowest form of gamesmanship.

[rixalex]

I know many Utd supporters that are even smug about the power Ferguson wields over refs and linesmen, but i really don't think the sport benefits in anyway. Pressurising the referee to make an incorrect decision in your favour is also the lowest form of gamesmanship.

I think it's more a case of making a joke about it, rather than being smug. I mean, it can't be denied that he does influence people, and it can't be denied that in some cases, he has no business doing so. But he's not going to change, knocking on 70 years old, so it comes down to the football associations - they are the ones who are allowing it - take your beef to them.

[StevieH]

I know many Utd supporters that are even smug about the power Ferguson wields over refs and linesmen, but i really don't think the sport benefits in anyway. Pressurising the referee to make an incorrect decision in your favour is also the lowest form of gamesmanship.

I think it's more a case of making a joke about it, rather than being smug. I mean, it can't be denied that he does influence people, and it can't be denied that in some cases, he has no business doing so. But he's not going to change, knocking on 70 years old, so it comes down to the football associations - they are the ones who are allowing it - take your beef to them.

which is effectively what dalglish has done this week and what rafa benitez tried to do with his 'facts' press conference - trouble is unless it's someone who wields similar power and respect to ferguson in the game then nobody will listen and think it's just moaning or sour grapes. kenny has more chance than rafa ever did in that regard. but as you say it'll probably never really change until ferguson has retired.

think the ban on stopping managers talking about referees would be a good step in the right direction - thing is it would require a strong FA to implement and manage it, and england simply doesn't have one.

[rixalex]

think the ban on stopping managers talking about referees would be a good step in the right direction - thing is it would require a strong FA to implement and manage it, and england simply doesn't have one.

In addition to the ban you mention, that i support, what i think would really help is to have the refs post game explain their decisions, and if necessary, hold up their hands when they have fcuked things up. A little bit of accountability would endear them a lot more empathy and understanding.

[StevieH]

think the ban on stopping managers talking about referees would be a good step in the right direction - thing is it would require a strong FA to implement and manage it, and england simply doesn't have one.

In addition to the ban you mention, that i support, what i think would really help is to have the refs post game explain their decisions, and if necessary, hold up their hands when they have fcuked things up. A little bit of accountability would endear them a lot more empathy and understanding.

it would, though i can imagine the likes of sky sports not particularly being in favour of that level of clarity. however would they fill their shows without refereeing decisions to discuss, pore over and analyse in ludicrous detail?

FWIW a lad i know is a journo who spoke to the ref off the record after liverpool's match at stoke on saturday. ref said of the delap handball 'i simply couldn't see it, there were four players in the way'. which is the sort of honesty if given in post-match interviews would really help to improve the landscape i think.

[rixalex]

FWIW a lad i know is a journo who spoke to the ref off the record after liverpool's match at stoke on saturday. ref said of the delap handball 'i simply couldn't see it, there were four players in the way'. which is the sort of honesty if given in post-match interviews would really help to improve the landscape i think.

Darn right it would.

[smokie36]

I see the Echo is reporting Gerrard not fit enough for Sunday. Pity that....

[MrRed]

Carragher should do the good thing and retire while he still has something of a good reputation,always a yellow card for him a game now! and he is now in the same situation as G Neville resorts to fouling to cover up his slowness.

Defo penalty don't know what all the fuss is about.

United had some harsh decisions last season as well but took them on the chin,maybe Liverpool are trying to undermine referee's a little by doing it this way also,ok.... it was a missed handball BIG DEAL!

get on with it.

[StevieH]

I see the Echo is reporting Gerrard not fit enough for Sunday. Pity that....

nah he'll play against brighton next week in the league cup. think coates is pencilled in for that one as well.

who is spurs right side likely to be on sunday? krancjar and walker?

[alfieconn]

I see the Echo is reporting Gerrard not fit enough for Sunday. Pity that....

who is spurs right side likely to be on sunday? krancjar and walker?

I hope not

[StevieH]

I see the Echo is reporting Gerrard not fit enough for Sunday. Pity that....

who is spurs right side likely to be on sunday? krancjar and walker?

I hope not

i was rather hoping so alfie! downing and enrique are a match for just about anyone i think but i'd rather they were up against krancjar and walker than say lennon and corluka.

we've an appalling record at white hart lane.

[alfieconn]

I see the Echo is reporting Gerrard not fit enough for Sunday. Pity that....

who is spurs right side likely to be on sunday? krancjar and walker?

I hope not

i was rather hoping so alfie! downing and enrique are a match for just about anyone i think but i'd rather they were up against krancjar and walker than say lennon and corluka.

we've an appalling record at white hart lane.

Yes Stevie but any team with aspirations to get into the top 3 really should be beating the likes of us

Edited September 16, 2011 by alfieconn

[carmine]

I see the Echo is reporting Gerrard not fit enough for Sunday. Pity that....

who is spurs right side likely to be on sunday? krancjar and walker?

I hope not

i was rather hoping so alfie! downing and enrique are a match for just about anyone i think but i'd rather they were up against krancjar and walker than say lennon and corluka.

we've an appalling record at white hart lane.

I hate to disappoint you but i think its a no brainer for him to pick Corluka for this. walker is not a good enough defensive full back for this one. Were not sure about Lennons fitness. Now that i've had more match time to watch Kranjcar i'm not nearly as impressed with him although he's a very decent player.

We will miss Sandro badly but as long as King plays i'm reasonably happy. Think we're in for a good game.

[StevieH]

I hate to disappoint you but i think its a no brainer for him to pick Corluka for this. walker is not a good enough defensive full back for this one. Were not sure about Lennons fitness. Now that i've had more match time to watch Kranjcar i'm not nearly as impressed with him although he's a very decent player.

We will miss Sandro badly but as long as King plays i'm reasonably happy. Think we're in for a good game.

i think krancjar is a decent footballer but he's not mobile enough for english football really. his movement's poor. corluka's a good player though.

sandro's definitely out is he? that's good for us i think. last 8 liverpool - spurs matches have resulted in no draws and there's usually goals involved. so yeah, shouldn't be boring anyway.

[smokie36]

I hate to disappoint you but i think its a no brainer for him to pick Corluka for this. walker is not a good enough defensive full back for this one. Were not sure about Lennons fitness. Now that i've had more match time to watch Kranjcar i'm not nearly as impressed with him although he's a very decent player.

We will miss Sandro badly but as long as King plays i'm reasonably happy. Think we're in for a good game.

i think krancjar is a decent footballer but he's not mobile enough for english football really. his movement's poor. corluka's a good player though.

sandro's definitely out is he? that's good for us i think. last 8 liverpool - spurs matches have resulted in no draws and there's usually goals involved. so yeah, shouldn't be boring anyway.

I hope you leave Kuyt on the bench and give your £35m man star billing for this one....King will put him in his pocket for 90 mins.

[carmine]

I hate to disappoint you but i think its a no brainer for him to pick Corluka for this. walker is not a good enough defensive full back for this one. Were not sure about Lennons fitness. Now that i've had more match time to watch Kranjcar i'm not nearly as impressed with him although he's a very decent player.

We will miss Sandro badly but as long as King plays i'm reasonably happy. Think we're in for a good game.

i think krancjar is a decent footballer but he's not mobile enough for english football really. his movement's poor. corluka's a good player though.

sandro's definitely out is he? that's good for us i think. last 8 liverpool - spurs matches have resulted in no draws and there's usually goals involved. so yeah, shouldn't be boring anyway.

Not sure about Sandro. there seems to be lid on this. He's training apparently but i don't think he's match fit.

Exactly right about Kranjcar.. Corluka also has no pace but he's a very competant savvy full back which is what that position requires for this game. Either way i'm sort of expecting redknapp to do something stupid and i don't look forward to seeing our line up.

When he's fit its a bit of a case of "in Ledley we trust" because thats the only time we seem to keep a clean sheet, Defense aside, expect Bale on the right and Kranjcar alongside Modric again. This did'nt work last weekend until he changed it and it won't work this time either so it depends on whether we can shut you out before Redknapp changes things which will hopefully happen no later than halftime.

Edited September 16, 2011 by carmine

[StevieH]

Not sure about Sandro. there seems to be lid on this. He's training apparently but i don't think he's match fit.

Exactly right about Kranjcar.. Corluka also has no pace but he's a very competant savvy full back which is what that position requires for this game. Either way i'm sort of expecting redknapp to do something stupid and i don't look forward to seeing our line up.

When he's fit its a bit of a case of "in Ledley we trust" because thats the only time we seem to keep a clean sheet, Defense aside, expect Bale on the right and Kranjcar alongside Modric again. This did'nt work last weekend until he changed it and it won't work this time either so it depends on whether we can shut you out before Redknapp changes things which will hopefully happen no later than halftime.

yeah king's an excellent defender, it's a shame for the lad that he's never been able to stay fit. if he does put big pissed andy in his pocket then you've only got suarez to worry about.

our problem is at rightback if you play bale there. skrtel's out of position there, kelly's injured, flanagan's very green and johnson's not match fit.

[MrRed]

You have Jamie though,he should be able to "handle" him another booking guaranteed!

[StevieH]

ah, LOLing at your own posts. never a good sign that mr ed.

[MrRed]

Nah lad!

[sharecropper]

This thread'a a bit quiet given there's so much to talk about.

A fantastic game for a non-Liverpool fan, but I doubt many of you will see it that way.

Was it lack of cohesion in the squad, inexperience (Adam was an idiot) or Prince Kenny's tactics - or what?

[MrRed]

They are in a meeting with the refs association again.

Did Carroll play?

[smokie36]

They are in a meeting with the refs association again.

Did Carroll play?

Happily....

[sharecropper]

They are in a meeting with the refs association again.

Did Carroll play?

To the best of his potential.