Liverpool F.c.

[rixalex]

I'm just really talking from the prospective that i loathe having a mercenary in the dressing room that is destabalising our team at every t/f window. And disrespects the club in his manner of doing so.

We've had our share of <deleted> like that. Better out than in, as they say. Or is that farts? Oh well, same thing.

[carmine]

I'm just really talking from the prospective that i loathe having a mercenary in the dressing room that is destabalising our team at every t/f window. And disrespects the club in his manner of doing so.

We've had our share of <deleted> like that. Better out than in, as they say. Or is that farts? Oh well, same thing.

I agree and to be honest Levy's made his point which was that we can resist when it suits us. Time to cash in and with plenty of time to line up a replacement in the knowledge Modric will be easy to sell.

I must admit to loving the dilema Tevez has landed himself in.

[Abrak]

It is a bit of a shame that noone considers the underlying logic of Henry's arguments. If you dont realize that if 99% of people think that house prices will go up, they are virtually 100% certain to go down -it is not a theory it is an axiom.

It isnt a huge leap from there to understand that people who who think the most stupid thing to do is a good starter for what you should do. Say the crappiest stockmarket in the world that has lost over 90% of its value and has fallen for 5 consecutive years, might be a good starting place to invest.

That owning a football club with out having a CF is a bit like having a car racing team without a car. That if you really think you can sacrifice not having a CF on the basis that he will be cheaper in 6 months time, you are inherently saying you can predict the future. (Which is fine but if you can do it you obviously wouldnt waste your time owning a football club.)

[carmine]

It is a bit of a shame that noone considers the underlying logic of Henry's arguments. If you dont realize that if 99% of people think that house prices will go up, they are virtually 100% certain to go down -it is not a theory it is an axiom.

It isnt a huge leap from there to understand that people who who think the most stupid thing to do is a good starter for what you should do. Say the crappiest stockmarket in the world that has lost over 90% of its value and has fallen for 5 consecutive years, might be a good starting place to invest.

That owning a football club with out having a CF is a bit like having a car racing team without a car. That if you really think you can sacrifice not having a CF on the basis that he will be cheaper in 6 months time, you are inherently saying you can predict the future. (Which is fine but if you can do it you obviously wouldnt waste your time owning a football club.)

OK Abrak, i'm sitting here trying to understand the business logic of spending 35m on a totally unproven striker, ( at premier league level) with an iffy disciplinary record and a lairy social life.

The only answer that keeps coming back to me is crass stupidity.

[Abrak]

It is a bit of a shame that noone considers the underlying logic of Henry's arguments. If you dont realize that if 99% of people think that house prices will go up, they are virtually 100% certain to go down -it is not a theory it is an axiom.

It isnt a huge leap from there to understand that people who who think the most stupid thing to do is a good starter for what you should do. Say the crappiest stockmarket in the world that has lost over 90% of its value and has fallen for 5 consecutive years, might be a good starting place to invest.

That owning a football club with out having a CF is a bit like having a car racing team without a car. That if you really think you can sacrifice not having a CF on the basis that he will be cheaper in 6 months time, you are inherently saying you can predict the future. (Which is fine but if you can do it you obviously wouldnt waste your time owning a football club.)

OK Abrak, i'm sitting here trying to understand the business logic of spending 35m on a totally unproven striker, ( at premier league level) with an iffy disciplinary record and a lairy social life.

The only answer that keeps coming back to me is crass stupidity.

Ok 3 options.....

1) Dont sell Torres and wait until the summer. Based on his performance you might only get 35m. So lose 15m ok, but it might not good at the time

2) Sell Torres and not have a CF. Well we were 12th. Suarez was new to the league. So we might go down because you pocketed the cash. Or even if we stayed up you pocked the cash.

3) We overpay 10m for a striker. Well as we were overpaid 10m for Torres not a great loss. Or we can be like Spurs and say strikers are 'too expensive' so we didnt buy (although maybe it did cost us CL). What you have to realize is say 'the market price' is the price paid in the 'market'. If you think that the price is 'too high' you are merely declaring an ability to predict 'future prices' and if you could predict the future you would merely be 'delusional'.

What you should realize is the short term correlation between value and its fundamentals is incredibly weak while the long term correlation is almost 100%.

Perhaps I can put it another way. Wenger believes that players are 'overvalued'. Henry has little interest in this concept because of the lack of short term correlation. (By that I mean it doesnt matter if I pay 20 when it is worth 10 if I sell for 30 when it is worth 20.) Absolute value would really only make sense if you bought a hold load of players when they were 'undervalued' and sold them when they were 'overvalued'. Henry believes that a team needs a goalkeeper for instance (which has some inherent logic.)

Edited January 26, 2012 by Abrak

[Devil]

Great result last night - well made up. Thought we fully deserved to go through 'all in all' over the two legs.

It was the resilience and togetherness to beat a quality City team and a great response in stark contrast to the Bolton game that has most impressed me. I was very interested to see the players reaction after Kenny's very public dissatisfaction of the players attitude. I would even argue that was some of the best performances from our new signings this season - no small coincidence!

- I am 37 now and was fortunate to watch Kenny play a few times when I was still young and then even more lucky to see some of the teams he managed through the late eighites. So when it was confirmed The King was coming back I couldn't believe my luck to be honest.

Its been a fun ride so far since he came back and I don't think you could of anticipated how its gone so far. So here we are, half way through season and 6 points of 4th, a Carling Cup final at Wembley and a big game against the scum on Saturday.

YNWA

[rixalex]

Its been a fun ride so far since he came back and I don't think you could of anticipated how its gone so far.

YNWA

Good example here of what i was talking about before. Usually when a team's form is up and down, as Liverpool's has been, that would be described by most as a frustratingly patchy and inconsistent spell, but with Kenny at the helm, in the eyes of a Liverpool supporter, it's what they call a fun ride.

[Abrak]

It is a bit of a shame that noone considers the underlying logic of Henry's arguments. If you dont realize that if 99% of people think that house prices will go up, they are virtually 100% certain to go down -it is not a theory it is an axiom.

It isnt a huge leap from there to understand that people who who think the most stupid thing to do is a good starter for what you should do. Say the crappiest stockmarket in the world that has lost over 90% of its value and has fallen for 5 consecutive years, might be a good starting place to invest.

That owning a football club with out having a CF is a bit like having a car racing team without a car. That if you really think you can sacrifice not having a CF on the basis that he will be cheaper in 6 months time, you are inherently saying you can predict the future. (Which is fine but if you can do it you obviously wouldnt waste your time owning a football club.)

OK Abrak, i'm sitting here trying to understand the business logic of spending 35m on a totally unproven striker, ( at premier league level) with an iffy disciplinary record and a lairy social life.

The only answer that keeps coming back to me is crass stupidity.

Perhaps I can see the choices....

You are going to get 50m for Torres

1) you can not sell because you have no alternatives and you need him even though he doesnt want to play for you

2) You can sell him and do without - not great for a new owner especially if you go down

3) You can buy an incredibly cheap equally good replacement. Obviously one wonders why the buyer didnt think of that in the first place. Or why say Spurs missed out on this golden opportunity. (This is the we take advantage of everyone being incredibly stupid option.)

4) So you need a CF. There are no cheap ones around (or why would Chelsea be paying, or Aston Villa etc).

So simply you have a choice between overpaying for a CF on the basis that it is good value against the overpay that you have been given for your CF. Or you can have a team without a CF and hope that works as well as well as forecasting the future price of CFs which you assume to be lower on the basis of a DCF cashflow model of CF or whatever. However as the correlation between price and value is very weak in the short term there is no reason to believe that because players are overvalued at a particular price point their price will fall in the meaningful future.

This is incredibly obvious if you consider Wenger who has for the past 5 years said that players are over valued. It wouldnt have stopped him buying players overvalued and then selling them overvalued. And once players are undervalued is he going to buy 200 so he cant take advantage of his price appreciation. If goalkeepers are over valued do you not buy a goalkeeper. I am not an expert but I have never seen a team win anything without a goalkeeper

[Devil]

Its been a fun ride so far since he came back and I don't think you could of anticipated how its gone so far.

YNWA

Good example here of what i was talking about before. Usually when a team's form is up and down, as Liverpool's has been, that would be described by most as a frustratingly patchy and inconsistent spell, but with Kenny at the helm, in the eyes of a Liverpool supporter, it's what they call a fun ride.

Ok i'll bite - In complete contrast to the last owners/Hodgson period we went through. Kenny's reunited the club, players and fans a'like after a dreadful period - got us playing half decent football with some great perfomances at the end of last season. Pushed on and brought in new signings looking to the future and were now on are way to a first final in recent years.

Lots of games to play yet this season - plus Suarez to come back, Gerrard getting back to fitness and the team now gelling.

Guessing your nervous about Saturday then Rix

Edited January 26, 2012 by Devil

[Jimjim]

Absolutley delighted. I really thought we were going out after Dzeko's goal but then Bellamy scores yet again. He's been a scoring machine as of late, and it's been only him and Gerrard scoring penalties that's got us any goals as of late. We need to start scoring more and we need to start hitting better form in the league with massive matches coming up, but that performance was more like it.

Again we dominated at Anfield and it was a deserved draw on the balance of play. Both of their goals came out of absolutely nothing and Man City were pretty uninventive all night. Even Hart said Liverpool deserved to go through so that says something.

Yes, penalty was soft and most everyone thinks it was not a penalty and I'd agree, but at full speed I can understand why he's given it. If it was your team you'd be glad for it and cheer when the penalty kick went in, just the same.

Excited to see us get to a cup final. Let's win it!

[rixalex]

Ok i'll bite - In complete contrast to the last owners/Hodgson period we went through. Kenny's reunited the club, players and fans a'like after a dreadful period - got us playing half decent football with some great perfomances at the end of last season. Pushed on and brought in new signings looking to the future and were now on are way to a first final in recent years.

Lots of games to play yet this season - plus Suarez to come back, Gerrard getting back to fitness and the team now gelling.

Guessing your nervous about Saturday then Rix

Can't disagree that your club has a happy and united (small "u") feel about it these days, but if you take emotion out of it, and look at your results purely as they read on paper, i don't think there has really been much change from your last how ever many seasons of flirting in and out of the top four. Your feeling that things are on the up and up i think comes more down to perception than down to hard facts. But anyway, if you are happy, i shall try not to intrude.

As for Saturday, i'm not nervous at all. Excited. Looking forward to a good game.

[Abrak]

Look a few posts ago Carmine said that O'Neill didnt manage clubs in a that suited Spurs. I will readily admit that most Liverpool supporters thought that about Hodgson from the day he was appointed. He got a short lease to try his methods and it didnt work. He probably shouldnt have been appointed in the first place. Most Liverpool supporters are fairly loyal to their manager. One bad season doesnt make him a bad manager. We thrive on continuation.

But say even Dalglish (who has the highest win record of any Liverpool manager) will be judged on his results. (My own personal parameter is 9th). But we are not the sort of club that would get rid of him simply because he did not achieve CL this year. If you happen to believe we should, do not claim we are not discussing a rational debate simply because you seem to base your standards around Abromavich.

[Devil]

Ok i'll bite - In complete contrast to the last owners/Hodgson period we went through. Kenny's reunited the club, players and fans a'like after a dreadful period - got us playing half decent football with some great perfomances at the end of last season. Pushed on and brought in new signings looking to the future and were now on are way to a first final in recent years.

Lots of games to play yet this season - plus Suarez to come back, Gerrard getting back to fitness and the team now gelling.

Guessing your nervous about Saturday then Rix

Can't disagree that your club has a happy and united (small "u") feel about it these days, but if you take emotion out of it, and look at your results purely as they read on paper, i don't think there has really been much change from your last how ever many seasons of flirting in and out of the top four. Your feeling that things are on the up and up i think comes more down to perception than down to hard facts. But anyway, if you are happy, i shall try not to intrude.

As for Saturday, i'm not nervous at all. Excited. Looking forward to a good game.

Can't disagree that your club has a happy and united (small "u") feel about it these days,

Small? isnt that the Red half of Manchester now they are in the shadow of their bigger Blue Neigbours

[bkkjames]

Amazing how one win brings this page to life. Dev and jimjim make special appearances. All we need now is stevie and mousescouse to complete the side lol

[Devil]

Amazing how one win brings this page to life. Dev and jimjim make special appearances. All we need now is stevie and mousescouse to complete the side lol

I dare say come Saturday James one of our threads will be very quite

[Devil]

Amazing how one win brings this page to life. Dev and jimjim make special appearances. All we need now is stevie and mousescouse to complete the side lol

I will remind you after Saturdays game James

[rixalex]

Can't disagree that your club has a happy and united (small "u") feel about it these days,

Small? isnt that the Red half of Manchester now they are in the shadow of their bigger Blue Neigbours

Small described the letter - as in not a capital. Wanted to avoid the confusion of you thinking i was saying that Liverpool had a United (as in Man United) feel about it. Nevermind.

[Abrak]

BTW a Wembley appearance and a chance to win the CC I think is quite important to LFC. Obviously we would swap it for a top 4 finish or the FA cup but that doesnt seem likely. I know other clubs claim they dont want it when they lose. But it is a decent piece of silverware. Unlike other clubs we gave it some importance and it cost us Lucas against Chelsea. We did beat Chelsea away and City over two legs, To me although we havent really produced as much progress as we would hope, we are at least progressing.

[rixalex]

Amazing how one win brings this page to life. Dev and jimjim make special appearances. All we need now is stevie and mousescouse to complete the side lol

Fair weather fans.

[Abrak]

Amazing how one win brings this page to life. Dev and jimjim make special appearances. All we need now is stevie and mousescouse to complete the side lol

Slightly unfair. I bet if you look back there were virtually no comments when we beat City at home which hadnt been done against 11 men since October 2010. And they had hardly dropped a point. We were hardly crowing about it.

It is a reasonable achievement to beat City over two legs especially missing key players (although City were too). And it is a cause of celebration to be going to Wembley to win a cup. Arsenal havent done it, Spurs for quite a while.

I admit that you as a Utd supporter might feel it is s feeble achievement. And if you win nothing we will all have a big laugh

[rixalex]

Slightly unfair. I bet if you look back there were virtually no comments when we beat City at home which hadnt been done against 11 men since October 2010. And they had hardly dropped a point. We were hardly crowing about it.

Well of course you wouldn't be crowing about winning a first leg as it means nothing if you end up losing the second - and perhaps that is what a lot of you feared / expected. Now having won it, some old faces return for a bit of mutual back slapping and high fiving. Like i say, fair weather fans.

I admit that you as a Utd supporter might feel it is s feeble achievement. And if you win nothing we will all have a big laugh

I don't think it is feeble at all. Certainly not the best cup competition, but silverware is silverware.

[Abrak]

Slightly unfair. I bet if you look back there were virtually no comments when we beat City at home which hadnt been done against 11 men since October 2010. And they had hardly dropped a point. We were hardly crowing about it.

Well of course you wouldn't be crowing about winning a first leg as it means nothing if you end up losing the second - and perhaps that is what a lot of you feared / expected. Now having won it, some old faces return for a bit of mutual back slapping and high fiving. Like i say, fair weather fans.

I admit that you as a Utd supporter might feel it is s feeble achievement. And if you win nothing we will all have a big laugh

I don't think it is feeble at all. Certainly not the best cup competition, but silverware is silverware.

Bottom line is true.

Ok we beat City at home in the CC but it is worth fuc_k all if you dont perform in the second leg. It is not like the league where we can claim the points. Beating City at home is a bit like being up at half time. It is worth fuc_k all if you lose. We didnt all rush on the internet to claim our win away to City because it is worth fuc_k all unless you complete the double headed fixture.

And less face it how many UK teams can claim 2 draws, one loss and one win against City (answer nobody). We could be like Spurs and lost twice but blaimed it on the ref or the fact they cant play City employees

[rixalex]

Ok we beat City at home in the CC but it is worth fuc_k all if you dont perform in the second leg. It is not like the league where we can claim the points. Beating City at home is a bit like being up at half time. It is worth fuc_k all if you lose. We didnt all rush on the internet to claim our win away to City because it is worth fuc_k all unless you complete the double headed fixture.

Schizophrenia perhaps? You just jumped over the fence to make the argument i was making. Get back over your side.

[Abrak]

Ok we beat City at home in the CC but it is worth fuc_k all if you dont perform in the second leg. It is not like the league where we can claim the points. Beating City at home is a bit like being up at half time. It is worth fuc_k all if you lose. We didnt all rush on the internet to claim our win away to City because it is worth fuc_k all unless you complete the double headed fixture.

Schizophrenia perhaps? You just jumped over the fence to make the argument i was making. Get back over your side.

dont worry I am still lost on what you learn by watching a game live. I assume there must be something or people wouldnt derive their lives around it (or something like if that is the most fun they are having in their lives they are seriously short of something). But if I said I spent my Saturdays nights watching football people would seriously feel I needed a communal intervention. But hey ho like the judge from the Harry case pointed out, football has been known to seriously dysfunction peoples lives

Edited January 26, 2012 by Abrak

[SantiSuk]

Sorry boys - I shalln't be watching you in the CC final - didn't even bother to change my flight to watch Arsenal play in it last year, so only saw 15 minutes at Swampy. Waste of space competition, as endorsed by many B team selecting managers.

Now Saturday when you play Man U - that's a whole different ball game. I've lined up the comfy chair and beers already!

[alfieconn]

Ok we beat City at home in the CC but it is worth fuc_k all if you dont perform in the second leg. It is not like the league where we can claim the points. Beating City at home is a bit like being up at half time. It is worth fuc_k all if you lose. We didnt all rush on the internet to claim our win away to City because it is worth fuc_k all unless you complete the double headed fixture.

Schizophrenia perhaps? You just jumped over the fence to make the argument i was making. Get back over your side.

dont worry I am still lost on what you learn by watching a game live. I assume there must be something or people wouldnt derive their lives around it (or something like if that is the most fun they are having in their lives they are seriously short of something). But if I said I spent my Saturdays nights watching football people would seriously feel I needed a communal intervention. But hey ho like the judge from the Harry case pointed out, football has been known to seriously dysfunction peoples lives

[carmine]

Its been a fun ride so far since he came back and I don't think you could of anticipated how its gone so far.

YNWA

Good example here of what i was talking about before. Usually when a team's form is up and down, as Liverpool's has been, that would be described by most as a frustratingly patchy and inconsistent spell, but with Kenny at the helm, in the eyes of a Liverpool supporter, it's what they call a fun ride.

You took the words out of my mouth Rix. I do like to see passion shown about your team but then theres toatal delusion. If it wasn't Dalglish at the helm but, say let me think, Woy, then they'd be going nuts screaming about the dog average performances that have been put in consistently throughout the season.

Anyone else but Dalglish would be on very slippery ground. But no, they're on a fun ride.

[carmine]

Its been a fun ride so far since he came back and I don't think you could of anticipated how its gone so far.

YNWA

Good example here of what i was talking about before. Usually when a team's form is up and down, as Liverpool's has been, that would be described by most as a frustratingly patchy and inconsistent spell, but with Kenny at the helm, in the eyes of a Liverpool supporter, it's what they call a fun ride.

Ok i'll bite - In complete contrast to the last owners/Hodgson period we went through. Kenny's reunited the club, players and fans a'like after a dreadful period - got us playing half decent football with some great perfomances at the end of last season. Pushed on and brought in new signings looking to the future and were now on are way to a first final in recent years.

Lots of games to play yet this season - plus Suarez to come back, Gerrard getting back to fitness and the team now gelling.

Guessing your nervous about Saturday then Rix

Reunited the players!!!!! Did you watch the bolton game Dev. They were an absolute disgrace to the badge.

Edited January 27, 2012 by carmine

[Devil]

Its been a fun ride so far since he came back and I don't think you could of anticipated how its gone so far.

YNWA

Good example here of what i was talking about before. Usually when a team's form is up and down, as Liverpool's has been, that would be described by most as a frustratingly patchy and inconsistent spell, but with Kenny at the helm, in the eyes of a Liverpool supporter, it's what they call a fun ride.

You took the words out of my mouth Rix. I do like to see passion shown about your team but then theres toatal delusion. If it wasn't Dalglish at the helm but, say let me think, Woy, then they'd be going nuts screaming about the dog average performances that have been put in consistently throughout the season.

Anyone else but Dalglish would be on very slippery ground. But no, they're on a fun ride.

'dog average perfomrances consitently through the season' ???? you sir are clueless or a wum, not sure which.Weve outclassed and outplayed most of our opponents all season - not finishing our chances has been biggest critiscm. Theres been a few bad perfomances in there but your comments are...???

Roy Hodgeson - fu_k off Carmine... He left us barley out of 12th in mid table mediocracy at best.

Kenny lifted the club, steadied the ship and gudied us to 6th at the end of last season, playing free-flowing, exapnsive football might I add.

Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtle look unrecognisable from Roys reign now under Kenny! I would say they have to be one of the best center pairings right now in the Premier league.

And now in Kenny's full season were on our way to a cup final.

Liverpool have undeniably made progress in terms of performances on the pitch, slashing the wage bill and first and foremost, stabalisised a ship that was in danger of capsizing.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Devil

[carmine]

Its been a fun ride so far since he came back and I don't think you could of anticipated how its gone so far.

YNWA

Good example here of what i was talking about before. Usually when a team's form is up and down, as Liverpool's has been, that would be described by most as a frustratingly patchy and inconsistent spell, but with Kenny at the helm, in the eyes of a Liverpool supporter, it's what they call a fun ride.

You took the words out of my mouth Rix. I do like to see passion shown about your team but then theres toatal delusion. If it wasn't Dalglish at the helm but, say let me think, Woy, then they'd be going nuts screaming about the dog average performances that have been put in consistently throughout the season.

Anyone else but Dalglish would be on very slippery ground. But no, they're on a fun ride.

'dog average perfomrances consitently through the season' ???? you sir are clueless or a wum, not sure which.Weve outclassed and outplayed most of our opponents all season - not finishing our chances has been biggest critiscm. Theres been a few bad perfomances in there but your comments are...???

Roy Hodgeson - fu_k off Carmine... He left us barley out of 12th in mid table mediocracy at best.

Kenny lifted the club, steadied the ship and gudied us to 6th at the end of last season, playing free-flowing, exapnsive football might I add.

Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtle look unrecognisable from Roys reign now under Kenny! I would say they have to be one of the best center pairings right now in the Premier league.

And now in Kenny's full season were on our way to a cup final.

Liverpool have undeniably made progress in terms of performances on the pitch, slashing the wage bill and first and foremost, stabalisised a ship that was in danger of capsizing.

His name is WOY