Thai Talk: Democrats Can't Win Without Major Internal Reform

[webfact]

THAI TALK
Democrats can't win without major internal reform
Suthichai Yoon
The Nation


Alongkorn Polabutra

BANGKOK: -- "The Democrat Party isn't a party of the capitalists. Nor is it a party for the people. It belongs to a group of senior party executives," said a political-science academic the other day, after a small uproar erupted over the proposed revamping of Thailand's oldest political party.

That came hot on the heels of the Democrat chief adviser Chuan Leekpai's complaint that any call for reform of the main opposition party should be confined to the inner circles. In the opinion of the party's most respected old hand, airing negative views about the party just won't do.

Chuan was commenting on a very public statement from Alongkorn Polabutra, one of the party's deputy leaders, who suggested that the Democrats must now embark on "major reform" to shed the reputation of "eternal loser" in general elections.

It's not what he said. It's how and where he said it that sparked the mini-uproar within the party.

Alongkorn isn't the first party executive to suggest that major changes be undertaken if the Democrats are to remain relevant in the face of Thaksin Shinawatra's Pheu Thai Party's dominance, which seems set to continue as long as the former premier can control the levers of power. In fact, Thaksin is so confident of being able to control the electioneering apparatus that he has told party members that, if the move to amend the Constitution fails, he will push for dissolution of Parliament to call for a general election. This indicates that he believes he can win big again, and this time his party could garner an absolute majority and be in a position to ram through any bill it wants. This shows that Pheu Thai doesn't consider the Democrats a threat in any future election at all.

Alongkorn's contention is that the Democrat Party must undergo reform in three major areas: party structure, management and culture, and personnel.

When he emphasised that reform must aim at creating a higher degree of democracy within the party, he was obviously pointing to the issue of allowing a more open system of management. The Democrat paradox has always been that it's a party of outspoken politicians who are shy about being critical of the inner workings of the party.

Alongkorn's argument is that the party has lost in too many elections, and if that losing streak isn't checked, the public's confidence in the party's ability to return to power will be rendered so weak that victory will become an eternally remote possibility.

"In countries like the UK and the US, when one of the two major parties loses in one or two elections, a major reform movement is launched to try to make a comeback," Alongkorn said. "The Republican Party in America, for example, has just announced a major reform plan after having lost in two elections. But we the Democrats have lost in elections for the past 20 years - or the equivalent of five general elections in a row - and I still can't see how we can win again. I personally think we are already too late, but we must take the first step before aiming for the second or third steps."

The fact that an old party hand like Alongkorn had to speak out in public about the need for change says a lot about the trouble with the party's system. Most senior members recognise the need for a major revamp if the party is to win the next election, but the "big push" has to come from the top tier of leadership, especially Abhisit Vejjajiva.

Insiders say Abhisit would be the first to admit that wide-ranging changes are overdue. But entrenched interests and the lack of a sense of crisis at the top of the executive board have prevented any radical changes from being proposed - let alone implemented.

Some critics say the Democrat Party is haunted by self-contradictions. It's both a success story as a party and a failure in governance; an inspiring model as well as a nightmarish cautionary case; and the party's leaders are both skilful and clumsy. The Democrats are both visionary and stubborn at the same time.

Some senior party members insist that changes are already taking place but are mostly piecemeal in nature. That's a far cry from the real reform that could convince the disillusioned constituencies that the Democrats are good at more than the old way of politics, but that they can really shake themselves up to prove that they can govern and govern well.


-- The Nation 2013-04-25

[kimamey]

'This indicates that he believes he can win big again, and this time his party could garner an absolute majority and be in a position to ram through any bill it wants.'

I thought they had absolute majority now. I can see that this might happen again in another election now. The only thing against that is some supporters in the red shirts might not like that some of their supporters are still in jail and if may want stronger action against the military for the events of 2010. This might cause problems with the military if the PTP tried to do something about it.

The Democrats definitely need to get their act together or they may not exist soon. Too much control by the PTP could enable them to dissolve the Dems. I think that Abhisit could win if he wasn't held back by others in the party so maybe he should start his own. That could take years to bear fruit but if the Dems can't change then that may be his best option. The only problem being how democratic will Thailand be if there's no credible opposition? Also if the PTP win another election with a majority what will happen to the other smaller parties. At the moment some are being kept onside by the PTP.

[smutcakes]

Talk talk talk, everyone knows it, but the old dinosaurs in the Dem party continue to ignore.

For me the below sentence speaks volumes about the way they are run and think, particularly the bit in bold. They have to be open and honest about the state the party is in, but perhaps they don't want this as it will make it so abundantly clear they need to be reformed.

"That came hot on the heels of the Democrat chief adviser Chuan Leekpai's complaint that any call for reform of the main opposition party should be confined to the inner circles. In the opinion of the party's most respected old hand, airing negative views about the party just won't do."

It just reeks of the old hands in the party from birth have never had to lift a finger, never wanted or had to work for anything, and that right to just demand and if you dont get kick and scream until its given.

People like Korn & Abhisit should break off and start their own party, although blood is thicker than water, so not sure if their respective old Democrat families would allow them to do it.

[Locationthailand]

The image of the Dems is abysmal. The 'old school' thinking and complacency is a cancer and needs to change but the only other option is PTP and that is a road to dictatorship, and looming rapidly day by day. If there is not a third option soon to get swing voters I think Thailand will hit a low, lose complete control of its governance and could dissolve into civil war. It has already been tabled between a few of the army generals I speak with. If Thaksin is able to roll over the Constitutional Court and the judges, I would think it is one step close to either. Any chance for their continued pathetic use of the word 'democracy' will dissolve into the past.

[smutcakes]

The image of the Dems is abysmal. The 'old school' thinking and complacency is a cancer and needs to change but the only other option is PTP and that is a road to dictatorship, and looming rapidly day by day. If there is not a third option soon to get swing voters I think Thailand will hit a low, lose complete control of its governance and could dissolve into civil war. It has already been tabled between a few of the army generals I speak with. If Thaksin is able to roll over the Constitutional Court and the judges, I would think it is one step close to either. Any chance for their continued pathetic use of the word 'democracy' will dissolve into the past.

Bit of a close the stable door after the horse has bolted. Maybe if over the past 50 years the Dems, army had created the systems, check and balances, improved education etc the power vacuum that Thaksin stepped into would never of been created.

Instead they raped and pillaged the country of resources, money and got fat and lazy whilst being waited on hand and foot sitting in their Bangkok mansions. And if Thaksin had not come along and upset the apple cart it would have continued in that vain- and by the seeming lack of desire for the Dem party to reform and move forward, they would very much like the army or courts to return it to that.

What the PTP are doing and the way the country is going (economy aside) is concerning, but the Dems are the ones that created and benefited from the system for so long. What goes around comes around, no point crying over spilt milk, you reap what you sow, Som na na etc.

As you say we need a new viable party asap with new young forward thinkers. We dont need the army to step in, who are equally inept and bent as both the PTP and the Democrats. Let the system take its course, however painful it may be. I am yet to see anyone put forward any viable solution to the current system which does not entail having other corrupt and useless people in power. For that reason it just has to be allowed to take its course.

[chainarong]

I think Mr Chuan , although I respect he's view , needs to take on board all forms of opinion, the prevailing view of Thailand's political parties are of the old school, arrogant rich upper class, and closed to the public, this last comment has to be addressed, the democrats if they support the worker must reach out to those area's and take notice of the peoples concern, also they must become closer to those people by opening their doors to the rank and file , let the people have a say in the future of their county , instead of the limited few, deciding for the many.

[Thai at Heart]

There is little hope of change within the Dems because they are so beholden to old business and the army, the moment they come up with anything remotely different, I am sure the phones ring off the hook at party office demanding a meeting, be it minimum wage, ATM charges or retail law, land reform or agriculture reform. Their backers have been served extremely well by the party delivering policies that have been very good for a select number of companies in given markets and these companies have made hay for many many years.

The only hope, is that the younger bunch split away and plough their own furrow on the basis of a clear political and economic ideology. That is their only hope because actually PTP is a contradiction itself. It is the supposedly the party of the poor, whilst also being the party of its own rich backers. By working out that benefitting the country actually encompasses consumers, personal tax payers, entrepreneurs and employees not just established oligopolistic companies they might just win something.

[scorecard]

There is little hope of change within the Dems because they are so beholden to old business and the army, the moment they come up with anything remotely different, I am sure the phones ring off the hook at party office demanding a meeting, be it minimum wage, ATM charges or retail law, land reform or agriculture reform. Their backers have been served extremely well by the party delivering policies that have been very good for a select number of companies in given markets and these companies have made hay for many many years.

The only hope, is that the younger bunch split away and plough their own furrow on the basis of a clear political and economic ideology. That is their only hope because actually PTP is a contradiction itself. It is the supposedly the party of the poor, whilst also being the party of its own rich backers. By working out that benefitting the country actually encompasses consumers, personal tax payers, entrepreneurs and employees not just established oligopolistic companies they might just win something.

Further, with such a large % of the total electorate unaware of what the whole picture should really look like, the 'New Dems' (or whatever they call themselves - actually a new name and image would be better) they need to develop some clever policies which are attractive to both the politically unaware and the aware and policies which really and quickly install change and quickly take a large % of Thais into an obvious better quality of life through their own productivity.

Also the Dems must quickly give the whole electorate a new and honest understanding of what good democracy looks like / feels like / and how it works. In fact IMHO they are derelict in NOT having make serious & obvious progress on this front already.

Policies which provide other and different options for the poor farmers which also build strong income etc., also highly desirable.

Education, in many forms is obviously one key to value-added and sustainable change. As an aligned point, Thailand needs to realize that relying on cheap labour as an attraction for investment has pretty much gone and will not return, Thailand desperately needs to design and implement education programs which really equip large numbers for value added work.

Abhisit and Korn IMHO can and should spearhead a new party and IMHO are well capable of designing and implementing the above when surrounded by a new breed of young and clever politicians who have a different mindset to pretty much every current politician in all parties.

And at the same time the 'New Dems' (or whatever name) must develop a scenario which makes the paymasters machine simply irrelevant.

A tall order no doubt, but not much other choice.

Edited April 25, 2013 by scorecard

[whybother]

Reform of the Democrats won't change anything. To the PTP/Thaksin supporters, they will still be the Democrats.

The only hope for the Democrats is that the population actually start understanding how democracy should work. The people already like Democrat policies, but they can't get past the red shirt propaganda.

IMO PTP will win the next election, maybe without a majority of seats, but they can't keep spending money on populist policies, so the people will start seeing the affects of that.

[Thai at Heart]

There is little hope of change within the Dems because they are so beholden to old business and the army, the moment they come up with anything remotely different, I am sure the phones ring off the hook at party office demanding a meeting, be it minimum wage, ATM charges or retail law, land reform or agriculture reform. Their backers have been served extremely well by the party delivering policies that have been very good for a select number of companies in given markets and these companies have made hay for many many years.

The only hope, is that the younger bunch split away and plough their own furrow on the basis of a clear political and economic ideology. That is their only hope because actually PTP is a contradiction itself. It is the supposedly the party of the poor, whilst also being the party of its own rich backers. By working out that benefitting the country actually encompasses consumers, personal tax payers, entrepreneurs and employees not just established oligopolistic companies they might just win something.

Further, with such a large % of the total electorate unaware of what the whole picture should really look like, the 'New Dems' (or whatever they call themselves - actually a new name and image would be better) they need to develop some clever policies which are attractive to both the politically unaware and the aware and policies which really and quickly install change and quickly take a large % of Thais into an obvious better quality of life through their own productivity.

Also the Dems must quickly give the whole electorate a new and honest understanding of what good democracy looks like / feels like / and how it works. In fact IMHO they are derelict in NOT having make serious & obvious progress on this front already.

Policies which provide other and different options for the poor farmers which also build strong income etc., also highly desirable.

Education, in many forms is obviously one key to value-added and sustainable change. As an aligned point, Thailand needs to realize that relying on cheap labour as an attraction for investment has pretty much gone and will not return, Thailand desperately needs to design and implement education programs which really equip large numbers for value added work.

Abhisit and Korn IMHO can and should spearhead a new party and IMHO are well capable of designing and implementing the above when surrounded by a new breed of young and clever politicians who have a different mindset to pretty much every current politician in all parties.

And at the same time the 'New Dems' (or whatever name) must develop a scenario which makes the paymasters machine simply irrelevant.

A tall order no doubt, but not much other choice.

I think there are 3 or 4 thorny issues out there that they have known about but haven't been able to implement for fear of upsetting their base.

First : Corruption. The Dems as they stand now cannot do anything about this as it stands now because the assembled old guard are as corrupt as any. No one will grab the bull by the horns and sort it out. IT IS EVERYWHERE

Second : Land reform. The rich hide their cash in this, pay virtually nothing to hang onto it. It is essentially legal money laundering. The biggest asset the country has, essentially is abused to hide cash that should be declared as income and taxed.

Third : Agricultural Markets : They really need to do a wholesale review of how these markets work and then understand that basically the exporters take virtually no risk. The losses are nationalised or the farmers get screwed year after year. I would allow foreign companies into the market to increase competition

Fourth : FBA. It is time for the country to open up to increase competition across the board to stop monopoly pricing.

Edited April 25, 2013 by Thai at Heart

[Dr Wanchai]

Abhisit as PM would be an asset for Thailand.

[backtonormal]

There is little hope of change within the Dems because they are so beholden to old business and the army, the moment they come up with anything remotely different, I am sure the phones ring off the hook at party office demanding a meeting, be it minimum wage, ATM charges or retail law, land reform or agriculture reform. Their backers have been served extremely well by the party delivering policies that have been very good for a select number of companies in given markets and these companies have made hay for many many years.

The only hope, is that the younger bunch split away and plough their own furrow on the basis of a clear political and economic ideology. That is their only hope because actually PTP is a contradiction itself. It is the supposedly the party of the poor, whilst also being the party of its own rich backers. By working out that benefitting the country actually encompasses consumers, personal tax payers, entrepreneurs and employees not just established oligopolistic companies they might just win something.

Further, with such a large % of the total electorate unaware of what the whole picture should really look like, the 'New Dems' (or whatever they call themselves - actually a new name and image would be better) they need to develop some clever policies which are attractive to both the politically unaware and the aware and policies which really and quickly install change and quickly take a large % of Thais into an obvious better quality of life through their own productivity.

Also the Dems must quickly give the whole electorate a new and honest understanding of what good democracy looks like / feels like / and how it works. In fact IMHO they are derelict in NOT having make serious & obvious progress on this front already.

Policies which provide other and different options for the poor farmers which also build strong income etc., also highly desirable.

Education, in many forms is obviously one key to value-added and sustainable change. As an aligned point, Thailand needs to realize that relying on cheap labour as an attraction for investment has pretty much gone and will not return, Thailand desperately needs to design and implement education programs which really equip large numbers for value added work.

Abhisit and Korn IMHO can and should spearhead a new party and IMHO are well capable of designing and implementing the above when surrounded by a new breed of young and clever politicians who have a different mindset to pretty much every current politician in all parties.

And at the same time the 'New Dems' (or whatever name) must develop a scenario which makes the paymasters machine simply irrelevant.

A tall order no doubt, but not much other choice.

I think there are 3 or 4 thorny issues out there that they have known about but haven't been able to implement for fear of upsetting their base.

First : Corruption. The Dems as they stand now cannot do anything about this as it stands now because the assembled old guard are as corrupt as any. No one will grab the bull by the horns and sort it out. IT IS EVERYWHERE

Second : Land reform. The rich hide their cash in this, pay virtually nothing to hang onto it. It is essentially legal money laundering. The biggest asset the country has, essentially is abused to hide cash that should be declared as income and taxed.

Third : Agricultural Markets : They really need to do a wholesale review of how these markets work and then understand that basically the exporters take virtually no risk. The losses are nationalised or the farmers get screwed year after year. I would allow foreign companies into the market to increase competition

Fourth : FBA. It is time for the country to open up to increase competition across the board to stop monopoly pricing.

The Amart has survived this long by not allowing this

Edited April 25, 2013 by metisdead
30) Do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes, added emoticons, or altered wording.

[backtonormal]

Abhisit as PM would be an asset for Thailand.

Whats that monkey smoking. Are you on it

[Payboy]

In the opinion of the party's most respected old hand, airing negative views about the party just won't do.

No one but the "old hands" has a say in the democrat party? Enough case for reform that.

[Thereisnoif]

Abhisit as PM would be an asset for Thailand.

He will never win an general election, so his only hope to be PM again is on the back of a new military coup like the first time around.

[whybother]

Abhisit as PM would be an asset for Thailand.

He will never win an general election, so his only hope to be PM again is on the back of a new military coup like the first time around.

I like how people rewrite history.

But don't let facts get in the way of your propaganda.

Edited April 25, 2013 by whybother

[Thai at Heart]

There is little hope of change within the Dems because they are so beholden to old business and the army, the moment they come up with anything remotely different, I am sure the phones ring off the hook at party office demanding a meeting, be it minimum wage, ATM charges or retail law, land reform or agriculture reform. Their backers have been served extremely well by the party delivering policies that have been very good for a select number of companies in given markets and these companies have made hay for many many years.

The only hope, is that the younger bunch split away and plough their own furrow on the basis of a clear political and economic ideology. That is their only hope because actually PTP is a contradiction itself. It is the supposedly the party of the poor, whilst also being the party of its own rich backers. By working out that benefitting the country actually encompasses consumers, personal tax payers, entrepreneurs and employees not just established oligopolistic companies they might just win something.

Further, with such a large % of the total electorate unaware of what the whole picture should really look like, the 'New Dems' (or whatever they call themselves - actually a new name and image would be better) they need to develop some clever policies which are attractive to both the politically unaware and the aware and policies which really and quickly install change and quickly take a large % of Thais into an obvious better quality of life through their own productivity.

Also the Dems must quickly give the whole electorate a new and honest understanding of what good democracy looks like / feels like / and how it works. In fact IMHO they are derelict in NOT having make serious & obvious progress on this front already.

Policies which provide other and different options for the poor farmers which also build strong income etc., also highly desirable.

Education, in many forms is obviously one key to value-added and sustainable change. As an aligned point, Thailand needs to realize that relying on cheap labour as an attraction for investment has pretty much gone and will not return, Thailand desperately needs to design and implement education programs which really equip large numbers for value added work.

Abhisit and Korn IMHO can and should spearhead a new party and IMHO are well capable of designing and implementing the above when surrounded by a new breed of young and clever politicians who have a different mindset to pretty much every current politician in all parties.

And at the same time the 'New Dems' (or whatever name) must develop a scenario which makes the paymasters machine simply irrelevant.

A tall order no doubt, but not much other choice.

I think there are 3 or 4 thorny issues out there that they have known about but haven't been able to implement for fear of upsetting their base.

First : Corruption. The Dems as they stand now cannot do anything about this as it stands now because the assembled old guard are as corrupt as any. No one will grab the bull by the horns and sort it out. IT IS EVERYWHERE

Second : Land reform. The rich hide their cash in this, pay virtually nothing to hang onto it. It is essentially legal money laundering. The biggest asset the country has, essentially is abused to hide cash that should be declared as income and taxed.

Third : Agricultural Markets : They really need to do a wholesale review of how these markets work and then understand that basically the exporters take virtually no risk. The losses are nationalised or the farmers get screwed year after year. I would allow foreign companies into the market to increase competition

Fourth : FBA. It is time for the country to open up to increase competition across the board to stop monopoly pricing.

The Amart has survived this long by not allowing this

Precisely. But these are precisely the type of issues that could get ptp on the run and be good for the country I.e. the whole country.

[thaicbr]

Abhisit as PM would be an asset for Thailand.

He will never win an general election, so his only hope to be PM again is on the back of a new military coup like the first time around.

Why would he not win a general election???

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

[thaicbr]

Abhisit as PM would be an asset for Thailand.

Whats that monkey smoking. Are you on it

I take it you do not agree? Why?

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

[Thai at Heart]

Abhisit as PM would be an asset for Thailand.

Whats that monkey smoking. Are you on it

I take it you do not agree? Why?

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

He could be if he wasn't beholden to democrat party corruption and army influence. Edited April 25, 2013 by Thai at Heart

[Thereisnoif]

Abhisit as PM would be an asset for Thailand.

He will never win an general election, so his only hope to be PM again is on the back of a new military coup like the first time around.

Why would he not win a general election???

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

Simply because last time he tried he failed miserably .

[bigbamboo]

The Democrats are a political dinosaur, lumbering along with no real leadership, battling the financial might and popularism of the PTP and yet they still managed three quarters of their rival's votes at the last election.

If they could go through a revamp and find a charismatc leader victory would not be beyond them.

[Baerboxer]

The Democrats are a political dinosaur, lumbering along with no real leadership, battling the financial might and popularism of the PTP and yet they still managed three quarters of their rival's votes at the last election.

If they could go through a revamp and find a charismatc leader victory would not be beyond them.

Your using facts and logic Bigbamboo - now you know the PTP propaganists don't like that.

I saw Abhisit driving on a open wagon up Soi Ekkamai towards the end of March. It was suprising the amount of attention and waving he was getting. Even taxi and mc taxi drivers. Loads of people on the pavements, in buildings cheering and waving. He needs the confidence to develop his leadership and drive the party away from the old guard. If he can't do this he must make way for someone who can.

A considerable amount of people voted for the democrats at the last election, their candidate won the Bankok governor election, and they received a good number of votes in the Chiang Mai by-election against arguably the Shiniwatra second in command. They urgently need to reform and build on this.

PTP will continue to rape the country to fund populist policies to buy short term votes until their dictatorship goal is acheived. A credible alternative is urgently needed.

[Thai at Heart]

The Democrats are a political dinosaur, lumbering along with no real leadership, battling the financial might and popularism of the PTP and yet they still managed three quarters of their rival's votes at the last election.

If they could go through a revamp and find a charismatc leader victory would not be beyond them.

Your using facts and logic Bigbamboo - now you know the PTP propaganists don't like that.

I saw Abhisit driving on a open wagon up Soi Ekkamai towards the end of March. It was suprising the amount of attention and waving he was getting. Even taxi and mc taxi drivers. Loads of people on the pavements, in buildings cheering and waving. He needs the confidence to develop his leadership and drive the party away from the old guard. If he can't do this he must make way for someone who can.

A considerable amount of people voted for the democrats at the last election, their candidate won the Bankok governor election, and they received a good number of votes in the Chiang Mai by-election against arguably the Shiniwatra second in command. They urgently need to reform and build on this.

PTP will continue to rape the country to fund populist policies to buy short term votes until their dictatorship goal is acheived. A credible alternative is urgently needed.

In fairness, if he can't get some support in ekaamai, where can he. I am sure someone loves gordon brown in his home town too, it's just he daren't tell anyone.