Same-Sex Union Bill No Cause For Celebration

[isanbirder]

I've ploughed through this whole thread, and have yet to learn what the proposed 'bill' contains, apart from this threatened homosexuality test. Does anybody really know what we're all talking about?

[khunken]

If same sex people wish to party or spend a life time together - so be it. Who really cares?

no one, "legalise same-sex relationships" is therefor nonsense. It wasn't illegal like in Saudi Arabia.

But the point is, if it is good if two gays can adopt young boys. Which might be complete OK in 99 %, but what is with the 1 % where real bad things happen??

You're confusing issues here. The bill isn't about decriminalizing homosexuality or homosexual acts. It's about legal recognition of RELATIONSHIPS.

By your red herring pedo scare argument, NOBODY should be allowed children, as the majority of pedo crimes in the world happen in heterosexual families.

The article says ""legalise same-sex relationships" not me...They aren't illegal now.

I doubt that most pedo crimes happen in normal hetero families....just the cases I usually read are either some catholic priests (or their environment), some school/free time organization or some other family member (uncle). That some father rape his sons may happen but I doubt it is the majority. But that is not the point. People get children and you can't forbid that. But if you give orphans to a family that take care it is the responsibility of the society to take special care on who to give it.

And of course people who can theoretically get children themself is the best choice.

Pedo crimes happen everywhere and are far more prevalent among heteros. Just look at India right now as an example. Girls of kindergarten age upwards are the victims and most are not reported because of corrupt police (rings a bell) and fear. It is a false argument to use pedophilia as an argument against gay & lesbian rights.

[NongKhaiKid]

I'm amazed at how many gay rights supporters are on this site or is there a lot of hypocracy involved. I bet you make gay jokes and use politically incorrect words with the best of us or is there more to it with some of you ?

[Maestro]

Because Section 79 of Thailand's constitution states that "The State shall patronise and protect Buddhism as the religion observed by most Thais for a long period of time..." the discussion of Buddhism's view of homosexuality may be marginally on topic here but I would like to suggest nevertheless that a separate topic be started on this either in the forum Gay People in Thailand or in Buddhism. There have been several topics on this subject in the past, in both forums, but they have been inactive for a long time and it is therefore justifiable to start a new topic.

Regarding Jesus or the bible and homosexuality, this should also not be discussed here but instead in these recent topics:

Was Jesus A Homophobe? (Should We Care?)

What Does The Bible Say About Being Gay?

[isanbirder]

I'm amazed at how many gay rights supporters are on this site or is there a lot of hypocracy involved. I bet you make gay jokes and use politically incorrect words with the best of us or is there more to it with some of you ?

Why should it surprise you? Some posters are openly gay, but far more are just decent tolerant human beings. As for the jokes, the best Jewish jokes are made by Jews, the best Catholic jokes by priests, so why shouldn't the best gay jokes be made by gays?

[Spalpeen]

This is stupid, homosexuals should hav the sames right as heterosexuals do, they should be able to get married, adopt etc the same that hetero.

Homosexuals do have the same rights as other people. They're free to marry a person of the opposite sex any time they like, just like the rest of us. This current fad for same sex "marriage" undermines and trivialises the importance of real marriage. Before long they'll be demanding the right to marry their dog, their mother, their iPad or God knows what else. Where does it stop?

I hate flaming and do not usually practice it BUT in this case wow what an arrogant narrow minded self centred response !!! Where is your tolerance of others and their wishes and needs that lets face it should not affect your lifestyle preferences in any way?

I am personally heterosexual but I AM tolerant and leave everyone's sexually to themselves as it is entirely their concern, not mine nor yours. So sod all and any such repressive unnecessary laws that take away people's basic sexual freedoms between consenting adults. Parenthood should also of course be entirely based on ability, care and love that is, can and will be shown to children in people's care. Jeez there are many many heterosexual couples who from what you see and hear have no right to be left in charge of a cat let alone any child, and yet other gay couples who can offer a caring and responsible upbringing to children too. It is NOT about sexuality at all, but about the character and goodness of those who are to be parents. What religion thinks is absolutely irrelevant and I resent their interference in human freedom, except for those folk who freely wish to strictly follow their religion, but that is purely their own free choice not theirs to try to take away other people' free choice by laws and / or force and threats.

Jeez I thought it was 2013. COME ON NOW WE NEED TO PREACH AND PRACTICE TOLERANCE THESE DAYS MORE THAN EVER. LIVE AND LET LIVE.

Yeah yeah yeah, we all think tolerance is great, but do you have any red lines when it comes to marriage or does anything go? For instance, in some countries - Yemen and Bangladesh for example - it has been the cultural norm for millennia to marry very young girls to much older men. Many countries consider female genital mutilation to be part of their culture. I wouldn't have any tolerance for those practices. Would you? Or will you stick with toleration of other peoples sexual practices no matter what?

For the record, I have no objection to GLBT and-all-the-rest-of-it people living the lives they choose but marriage is a man-woman institution and not to be messed with.

[princessa]

I'm amazed at how many gay rights supporters are on this site or is there a lot of hypocracy involved. I bet you make gay jokes and use politically incorrect words with the best of us or is there more to it with some of you ?

dear child, gay jokes largely depend on context, and good humour doesn't raise questions of political correctness.

but I would indeed stay away off that "best of yours" crowd.

@ khunken

let the troll be

@ Spalpeen

what is your problem with man/man or woman/woman marriage.

[Scully]

This is stupid, homosexuals should hav the sames right as heterosexuals do, they should be able to get married, adopt etc the same that hetero.

You know that, we know that, but Thailand doesn't yet have the balls to do it, so again they take their PC attitude to avoid confruntation.

..it takes more balls, not to do it, in these PC infested times..

You do have a point, it's like they don't want to move on into the modern world.

[SeaVisionBurma]

Derogatory post removed.

Hopefully the discussion will reach a more mature level now that a holiday has been awarded.

[khunken]

This is stupid, homosexuals should hav the sames right as heterosexuals do, they should be able to get married, adopt etc the same that hetero.

Homosexuals do have the same rights as other people. They're free to marry a person of the opposite sex any time they like, just like the rest of us. This current fad for same sex "marriage" undermines and trivialises the importance of real marriage. Before long they'll be demanding the right to marry their dog, their mother, their iPad or God knows what else. Where does it stop?

I hate flaming and do not usually practice it BUT in this case wow what an arrogant narrow minded self centred response !!! Where is your tolerance of others and their wishes and needs that lets face it should not affect your lifestyle preferences in any way?

I am personally heterosexual but I AM tolerant and leave everyone's sexually to themselves as it is entirely their concern, not mine nor yours. So sod all and any such repressive unnecessary laws that take away people's basic sexual freedoms between consenting adults. Parenthood should also of course be entirely based on ability, care and love that is, can and will be shown to children in people's care. Jeez there are many many heterosexual couples who from what you see and hear have no right to be left in charge of a cat let alone any child, and yet other gay couples who can offer a caring and responsible upbringing to children too. It is NOT about sexuality at all, but about the character and goodness of those who are to be parents. What religion thinks is absolutely irrelevant and I resent their interference in human freedom, except for those folk who freely wish to strictly follow their religion, but that is purely their own free choice not theirs to try to take away other people' free choice by laws and / or force and threats.

Jeez I thought it was 2013. COME ON NOW WE NEED TO PREACH AND PRACTICE TOLERANCE THESE DAYS MORE THAN EVER. LIVE AND LET LIVE.

Yeah yeah yeah, we all think tolerance is great, but do you have any red lines when it comes to marriage or does anything go? For instance, in some countries - Yemen and Bangladesh for example - it has been the cultural norm for millennia to marry very young girls to much older men. Many countries consider female genital mutilation to be part of their culture. I wouldn't have any tolerance for those practices. Would you? Or will you stick with toleration of other peoples sexual practices no matter what?

For the record, I have no objection to GLBT and-all-the-rest-of-it people living the lives they choose but marriage is a man-woman institution and not to be messed with.

Well the marriage 'imstitution' is already pretty messed up with divorce rates so high. Introducing off topic items doesn't help either. Actually I'm sure gay & lesbian couples would probably settle for equal rights of inheritance, adoption, tax benefits, etc enjoyed by married couples - without the 'married' tag.

[tominbkk]

I wonder what they mean exactly by homosexuality test.

For example, this is the way it is in Turkey:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/26/turkish-military-pink-certificate-gay_n_1379823.html

To be fair Thailand should also have a hetrosexuality test, before granting a 'straight' couple the ability to be married.

Edited April 28, 2013 by tominbkk

[Potosi]

Spalpeen what do you care who or what people wan t to marry as long as you can do the same?

I think this is one of the first steps towards total equality and i t may be a long way but even a country like France is beginning to see the light.

Being infected with the homophobia virus seems to be really affecting the mental health of some people.

Yep, mental health. How about that; 'phobia' describes something people are afraid of. Arachnophobia, claustrophobia, and homophobia too when this word was invented. It doesn't have a discriminatory denotation. How comes the meaning of the term has been so perverted that it now describes an alledged negative attitude, discrimination, hate?

[khunken]

Spalpeen what do you care who or what people wan t to marry as long as you can do the same?

I think this is one of the first steps towards total equality and i t may be a long way but even a country like France is beginning to see the light.

Being infected with the homophobia virus seems to be really affecting the mental health of some people.

Yep, mental health. How about that; 'phobia' describes something people are afraid of. Arachnophobia, claustrophobia, and homophobia too when this word was invented. It doesn't have a discriminatory denotation. How comes the meaning of the term has been so perverted that it now describes an alledged negative attitude, discrimination, hate?

Well it hardly comes close to the 'perversion' of the word 'gay' does it?

English tends to be an adaptable language & words acquire new & modified meanings. Remember a phobia can mean fear or dislike.

Here endith a pedantic lesson.

[Jingthing]

I suggest the "issues" with the established modern definitions of the words gay and homophobia are well OUT of the topic area here (and have been done to death on this forum already).

[ginjag]

Spalpeen what do you care who or what people wan t to marry as long as you can do the same?

I think this is one of the first steps towards total equality and i t may be a long way but even a country like France is beginning to see the light.

Being infected with the homophobia virus seems to be really affecting the mental health of some people.

Yep, mental health. How about that; 'phobia' describes something people are afraid of. Arachnophobia, claustrophobia, and homophobia too when this word was invented. It doesn't have a discriminatory denotation. How comes the meaning of the term has been so perverted that it now describes an alledged negative attitude, discrimination, hate?

Well it hardly comes close to the 'perversion' of the word 'gay' does it?

English tends to be an adaptable language & words acquire new & modified meanings. Remember a phobia can mean fear or dislike.

Here endith a pedantic lesson.

There is more in the fear factor than the dislike. as they say fear of the unknown.

Let people lead whatever lives they wish, unless they push it in your face-then I think thats wrong, whatever your life style. (within the law that is)..

[tpop]

I wonder what they mean exactly by homosexuality test.

For example, this is the way it is in Turkey:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/26/turkish-military-pink-certificate-gay_n_1379823.html

To be fair Thailand should also have a hetrosexuality test, before granting a 'straight' couple the ability to be married.

Orthodox Jews have exactly such tests - both the woman and the man must be able to procreate

else no marriage

t

[Jingthing]

Actually I'm sure gay & lesbian couples would probably settle for equal rights of inheritance, adoption, tax benefits, etc enjoyed by married couples - without the 'married' tag.

It's an OK first step and better than nothing.

Sent from my GT-S5360B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited April 28, 2013 by Jingthing

[khunken]

Deleted

Edited April 28, 2013 by khunken

[notmyself]

Before long they'll be demanding the right to marry their dog, their mother, their iPad or God knows what else. Where does it stop?

Slippery slope arguments falsely assume that one thing must lead to another. They begin by suggesting that if we do one thing then that will lead to another, and before we know it we’ll be doing something that we don’t want to do. They conclude that we therefore shouldn’t do the first thing. The problem with these arguments is that it is possible to do the first thing that they mention without going on to do the other things; restraint is possible.

http://www.logicalfallacies.info/presumption/slippery-slope/

[Scott]

The test to a marriage is generally consent. A dog cannot consent to marriage.

[notmyself]

Scott, on 28 Apr 2013 - 14:03, said:

The test to a marriage is generally consent. A dog cannot consent to marriage.

The same argument was used in the US against allowing white Americans marrying African Americans and a similar argument was put forward by those who opposed women being able to vote.

[wilcopops]

Perhaps we should have a "hetrosexual Test" as well? I suppose you have to send a video to your local tessabaan?

[wilcopops]

This is stupid, homosexuals should hav the sames right as heterosexuals do, they should be able to get married, adopt etc the same that hetero.

Homosexuals do have the same rights as other people. They're free to marry a person of the opposite sex any time they like, just like the rest of us. This current fad for same sex "marriage" undermines and trivialises the importance of real marriage. Before long they'll be demanding the right to marry their dog, their mother, their iPad or God knows what else. Where does it stop?

No it doesn't work like that.....when women got equal rights with men these rights weren't then extended to dogs etc, when different skin colors got the vote the it wasn't then extended to birds or sandwiches.........If anything the right to marry for love unrestricted by gender should improve the already battered situation of marriage in most countries.

it would be nice to know also how many of the erudite people on this committee are divorced........

Edited April 28, 2013 by wilcopops

[wilcopops]

Actually I'm sure gay & lesbian couples would probably settle for equal rights of inheritance, adoption, tax benefits, etc enjoyed by married couples - without the 'married' tag. It's an OK first step and better than nothing. Sent from my GT-S5360B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Why should they?

[aguy30]

Actually I'm sure gay & lesbian couples would probably settle for equal rights of inheritance, adoption, tax benefits, etc enjoyed by married couples - without the 'married' tag. It's an OK first step and better than nothing. Sent from my GT-S5360B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Why should they?

Why shouldn't gays have those rights? Your comment is totally ignorant and stupid. Do those rights take something away from you?

[notmyself]

Actually I'm sure gay & lesbian couples would probably settle for equal rights of inheritance, adoption, tax benefits, etc enjoyed by married couples - without the 'married' tag. It's an OK first step and better than nothing. Sent from my GT-S5360B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Why should they?

Why shouldn't gays have those rights? Your comment is totally ignorant and stupid. Do those rights take something away from you?

I think the member means why should gay and lesbian couples settle for anything less that 100% equality.

[sausageandmash]

Actually I'm sure gay & lesbian couples would probably settle for equal rights of inheritance, adoption, tax benefits, etc enjoyed by married couples - without the 'married' tag. It's an OK first step and better than nothing. Sent from my GT-S5360B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Why should they?

Why shouldn't gays have those rights? Your comment is totally ignorant and stupid. Do those rights take something away from you?

This is a classic case of inverted fascism. This is the kind of person who actually believes it's wrong to express views other than his own.

What he fails to realise is that there are some people who find the idea of same sex marriage something that turns their stomachs, and adopting children even more so. It's not being bigoted, it's just a natural reaction that is surpressed by the PC media and Western thought police.

It's good to see the Thai government actually making sense for a change.

[Spalpeen]

The test to a marriage is generally consent. A dog cannot consent to marriage.

I'm afraid it's a bit more complicated than that. In some cultures first cousins can consent to marriage. In some, ten year old girls are said to be consenting. In many cultures, representing at least a billion people, no one really cares if the woman consents or not, and yet they marry, have children, grow old and die.

So I'm afraid consent is neither a prerequisite nor a test of marriage.

[KhunNene]

The test to a marriage is generally consent. A dog cannot consent to marriage.

I'm afraid it's a bit more complicated than that. In some cultures first cousins can consent to marriage. In some, ten year old girls are said to be consenting. In many cultures, representing at least a billion people, no one really cares if the woman consents or not, and yet they marry, have children, grow old and die.

So I'm afraid consent is neither a prerequisite nor a test of marriage.

Marriage conditions as you just described look pretty messed to me, huh? So why the game of not allowing two consensual same sex adults to marry?

[dickyknee]

Actually I'm sure gay & lesbian couples would probably settle for equal rights of inheritance, adoption, tax benefits, etc enjoyed by married couples - without the 'married' tag. It's an OK first step and better than nothing. Sent from my GT-S5360B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Why should they?

Why shouldn't gays have those rights? Your comment is totally ignorant and stupid. Do those rights take something away from you?

This is a classic case of inverted fascism. This is the kind of person who actually believes it's wrong to express views other than his own.

What he fails to realise is that there are some people who find the idea of same sex marriage something that turns their stomachs, and adopting children even more so. It's not being bigoted, it's just a natural reaction that is surpressed by the PC media and Western thought police.

It's good to see the Thai government actually making sense for a change.

yep, if it turns your stomach, then it's not for you. just like the smell of nam pla for me, it literally makes me retch. so i don't eat it.